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Fax Celestis
2007-11-15, 08:54 PM
There are a lot of dangerous things out there, and it is our duty to remove them as a threat--and add them to our collection of victories.

Helcaerfax is one of them:
Helcaerfax
Apocalyptic Voidspawn Advanced Huge Monstrous Crab
Huge Outsider (Augmented Vermin, Aquatic, Chaotic, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 40d12+643 (1123 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 120 ft. (24 squares), swim 120 ft. (24 squares)
Armor Class: 56 (-2 size, +6 Dex +26 natural, +8 insight, +4 luck, +4 deflection), touch 30, flat-footed 50
Base Attack/Grapple: +26/+59
Attack: Claw +47 melee (2d6+31+1d8 chaos)
Full Attack: 2 claws +47 melee (2d6+31+1d8 chaos)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 4d6+62+2d8 chaos, improved grab, powerful claws, sound of the apocalypse
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., DR 13/epic, SR 30, immune (ability damage, ability drain, death effects, death from massive damage, disease, energy damage, energy drain, mind-affecting spells, paralysis, petrification, poison, polymorphing, stunning, wounding), regeneration 30, vermin traits
Saves: Fort +38, Ref +28, Will +22
Abilities: Str 52, Dex 22, Con 42, Int --, Wis 11, Cha 4
Skills: --
Feats: ToughnessB
Environment: Temperate coastal
Organization: Solitary
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral

Like a nightmare crab, Helcaerfax is said, by some, to be the harbinger of the apocalypse. His powers make him seem to be so: none have stood against him and lived--yet.

Combat
Helcaerfax's claws are considered both epic and chaotic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. The extra chaos damage affects all creatures he attacks, though those warded against chaos take half the extra damage. Those with the Chaotic subtype ignore the extra damage.

Amphibious (Ex): Although Helcaerfax is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): Helcaerfax deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): If Helcaerfax hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a claw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it also constricts on the same round.

Powerful Claws (Ex): Helcaerfax always applies 1.5 times its Strength modifier to damage inflicted with its claws. Additionally, it gains a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks.

Sound of the Apocalypse (Su): Once per day, Helcaerfax can utter a word, unleashing tremendous destructive power. The word kills or destroys up to 40 creatures, as selected by Helcaerfax, within a 16400-foot spread, centered on it. A successful Will save (DC 27) resists the effect, but targets within range still take 8d8 sonic damage. Creatures immune to death effects are still vulnerable to this attack.

Regeneration (Ex): Helcaerfax has regeneration 30 . This regeneration cannot be overcome, and Helcaerfax can only be truly slain by dealing it nonlethal damage equal to its full normal hit points + its Constitution modifier and then using a wish or miracle to keep it dead. Helcaerfax regrows severed limbs in 1d6 rounds. It can reattach a severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Rejuvenation (Su): Three times per day, Helcaerfax can restore itself to full hit points.

Annihilating Strike (Su): Whenever Helcaerfax makes a successful critical hit with a natural attack, the struck opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 27) or have its body disintegrated by the powerful energy of utter annihilation manifested by the strike. Those who make the save take the normal damage from the critical hit.

Annihilating Touch (Su): Five times per day, Helcaerfax can use its entropic field to disintegrate nonsentient objects. Helcaerfax must touch the object or make a touch attack against a carried or worn item. Carried or magic items are entitled to a Fortitude saving throw (DC 27). Up to a 10-foot cube of nonsentient matter is affected, so the ability disintegrates only part of any very large object or structure. Objects that make the save still take 12d6 points of damage.

Helcaerfax may use this ability as a free action (still limited in uses per day) against an object that strikes it. If the striking object is destroyed, it deals no damage to it.

This field goes off randomly as well, starting at 2d10% at the beginning of a day, increasing 2d10% per hour, and resetting to the base 2d10% when it does finally discharge. Roll against the generated percentage every hour—Helcaerfax never knows when the discharge is about to occur. When the field spontaneously discharges, everything touching or touched by Helcaerfax must make a save as indicated above. This includes the floor of a room, water surrounding it, and so on. The ability still only affects 10 cubic feet of matter, but makes it impossible for Helcaerfax to keep items for long.

Aura of Fear (Su): Helcaerfax constantly radiates energies that cause fear in normal beings. Creatures within a 30-foot radius of it must succeed on a Will save (DC 27) or become frightened for 21 rounds. Those who make the save cannot be affected by Helcaerfax's aura for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect. Opponents with more tahn 40 HD are unaffected.

Vermin Traits: Helcaerfax is immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). It also has darkvision (60-foot range).
[hr]
Here's the plan: you make one character who is capable of taking down Helcaerfax by himself. There is no CR listed, as the "victor" of the hunt will be the one who takes down Helcaerfax at the lowest ECL.

Of course, this does preclude certain limitations. No Pun-Puns or builds I could find on the CharOp boards. No 1d2 Crusaders. No Epic Spellcasting (though Expanded Spell Slot Capacity is fine). No artifacts. No Planar Shepherds. No Mirrors of Opposition. No antimatter.

Beyond that, the sky's the limit*.

Who can take him down first?

*well, okay. I may ban something I find broken later.

martyboy74
2007-11-15, 09:12 PM
So, another evolution of That Damn Crab?


Does the random field effect of Annhiliating Touch count against uses per day?

Can we use epic spellcasting if it's specifically approved of by the DM (read: you)?

Manir
2007-11-15, 09:22 PM
Just a few questions:
-Do we need to be able to track down the crab or can we assume we already know where it is?

-No banned sourcebooks, right?

-What do we use to generate stats?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-15, 09:24 PM
facepalm.jpg.

:smallsigh:

Not another crab, Fax! :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, I gotta plan. Will be back with it tomorrow.

Reinboom
2007-11-15, 09:28 PM
Developing mine...

Oh, you may wish to identify a few other cases:
IE:
No Planar Shepherd
No Antimatter

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-15, 09:28 PM
Can't remember now, but energy damage was the energy types, excluding force and prismatic, right?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-15, 09:45 PM
OK, got it - ECL 6. :smallbiggrin:

Vivacious (planar handbook) Human Paladin 1 / X 2, with the feat 'leadership'. Call her A.

Her cohort is the same, but without the other two levels - call him B.

B flies in, and then starts spamming positive energy ray, trying to get Helcaerfax to get a natural 1 on the Fort DC (also, the AC20 touch). Being incorporeal, the only thing that can harm him is Helcaerfax's one magical ability - Sound of the Apocalypse. He uses this, and B dies.

A then flies in from the 16500-foot exclusion zone, and repeats.

Well, that's a rough, terrible plan, that I'll improve later, but I'm staking out my claim to it!

Questions -

Do we know where Helcaerfax is, to start off with?

Helcaerfax is Int --; does that mean it would be instinctually clever enough to attack itself to avoid ASPLODING to positive energy?

Cohorts allowed?

Oh dear - I've seen the clincher, that will protect Helcaerfax:

Is positive energy counted in the energy immmunity?

:smallfrown: Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Fishy
2007-11-15, 09:47 PM
Banishment presumably doesn't count as victory, but just for information's sake, what plane is Helcaerfax native to?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-15, 09:48 PM
Well, I'm sure we can always use substitution to place a sphere and make it do prismatic damage.



I think I've just found the most powerful spell ever. 'Cept for prismatic dragons, NOTHING resists prismatics.

Crow
2007-11-15, 10:08 PM
This might be a fun idea if it stuck to some basic MM creatures to start with. Another templated, advanced crab though...getting old.

Mavian
2007-11-15, 10:18 PM
ECL 3?

Drow Elf Paladin with maxed charisma and the Vermin Trainer feat.

The Crab's a Huge Vermin, so it would be +5 to the Handle Animal attempts, but I could still train it to play dead, and ambush on command..

Behold_the_Void
2007-11-15, 10:24 PM
Does the Wish need to be used? Because if that's the case, only a full caster or a UMD whore is going to be able to do it.

Fishy
2007-11-15, 10:39 PM
Well... He doesn't have immunity to critical hits, he has 11 Wis, no ranks in Spot or Listen, and no blindsense.

In theory, your standard issue Rogue 19/Shadowdancer 1 could Snipe him into unconsiousness, if you got lucky and had a few years worth of arrows.

EDIT: CG Warforged Scout, Warlock1/Paladin Of Freedom 3/Rogue 15/Shadowdancer 1

Immune to fear, Helcaerfax literally can't see him, the Darkness invocation means we always have a sorce of shadows, and he snipes with a 9d6 ranged touch attack every round from now until the end of the universe. Godspeed.

BizzaroStormy
2007-11-15, 10:46 PM
Wish

Dead

Next Target

Manir
2007-11-15, 10:52 PM
Done. I used elite array for the stats as none was given.

DELETED.
Realised an error in my build. Making changes now.

Armads
2007-11-15, 10:55 PM
Um, you can only take Practiced Spellcaster once per casting class.

Woot Spitum
2007-11-15, 11:03 PM
Does the Wish need to be used? Because if that's the case, only a full caster or a UMD whore is going to be able to do it.
If you have a Ring of Three Wishes, you should be fine.

Armads
2007-11-15, 11:23 PM
Vivacious (planar handbook) Human Paladin 1 / X 2, with the feat 'leadership'. Call her A.


It's actually ECL 8, and you need 6 HD to get Leadership. So you need to be at least ECL 11 to pull this off.


Immune to fear, Helcaerfax literally can't see him, the Darkness invocation means we always have a source of shadows, and he snipes with a 9d6 ranged touch attack every round from now until the end of the universe. Godspeed.

I was thinking of doing a Ghost Warlock, but that thing has SR 30, and it's not possible to just get CL 11 and count on 20s, because that thing regenerates.

Manir
2007-11-15, 11:26 PM
Errors fixed now.

Crab Slayer (A.K.A "The Sky's the limit")
Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Fighter 2/Conjurer (Immediate Magic) 3/Cleric 1/Warblade 7/Dragon Slayer 1
Medium Humanoid (Human, Dragonblood)
HD: 2d10 + 2d4 + 1d8 + 7d12 + 1d10 + 28 (109 hp)
Init: +11
Spd: 30 ft., Fly 30 ft. (Average)
AC: 19 (+5 armor, +4 dex)
BA/G: +11/+12
Atk: Mwk Longspear +19 melee (1d8 + 1/x3)
Full Atk: Mwk Longspear +19/+14/+9 melee (1d8 + 1/x3)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
SA: spells, maneuvers
SQ: gliding, Aura of Courage
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +16, Will +14
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Spot +19, Spellcraft +21, Tumble +22
Feats: Dodge (B, 1), Mobility (B, 1), Roofwalker (B, 2), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard, 3), Roof-Jumper (6), Iron Will (9), Improved Initiative (B, 9), ALERTNESS
Loot: Bead of Karma (20 000 gp), Scroll of Greater Teleport x2 (2 275 gp), +1 Chainshirt of Landing (5 250 gp), Belt of Battle (12 000 gp), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25 000 gp), Mwk Longspear (308 gp), Gloves of Dexterity +5 (25 000 gp), Rod of Lesser Extend (3 000 gp), Headband of Intellect +4 (16 000 gp), Orange Prism Ioun Stone (30 000 gp), Trollbane x10 (900 gp), 992 gp

Maneuvers of Note (IL 10th)
Boosts - White Raven Tactics
Counters - Lightning Recovery

Spells of Note (CL 13th) Banned Schools (Evocation, Enchantment)
Invisibility, Wraith Strike

TACTICS
Apply Trollbane to my weapon.
Cast Invisibility.
Activate the Bead of Karma and use the scroll of Greater Teleport to teleport 3610 feet above Helcaerfax.
Fall, using the glide ability of the Dragonborn to keep up if necessary.
Once 300 feet above Helcaerfax, cast an Extended Wraith Strike using the rod of extend spell.
Continue falling and stab Helcaerfax once it is within reach.
The attack would be a +22 touch attack which deals (360d6 + 1d8 + 1) which averages out to 1265 points of damage, easily enough to slay it as it's regeneration is negated by trollbane. If the attack misses, use Lightning Recovery to reroll the attack.


EDIT: Fixed some random errors.

Fishy
2007-11-15, 11:44 PM
I was thinking of doing a Ghost Warlock, but that thing has SR 30, and it's not possible to just get CL 11 and count on 20s, because that thing regenerates.

You're right: I forgot that SR applies to Elderitch Blast: Paladin of Freedom 3/Warlock 11/Rogue 5/Shadowdancer 1 then: just barely enough to get 23 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently with 10 int, and still a 9d6 touch attack.

You're wrong about the 20s, though. Warforged don't age, eat, sleep or breathe, and Elderitch Blast costs zero resources. If the Crab can't retaliate, you could just keep going until you landed natural 20's on SR, beat the touch AC, and dealt at least 44 damage- 1123 times in a row.

Yes, that's going to take a while, but ridding the world of a creature like Helcaerfax is worth the sacrifice, right?

BRC
2007-11-15, 11:48 PM
Dunno the level but
Juan Matador: Class: Irrelevant, all he needs is a portable hole and a small bag of holding.
Strategy:
Juan sets up the Portable hole, then stands so that the hole is directly between him and Helcaerfax. He then says rude things about Helcaerfax until Helcaerfax charges him, and falls into the hole. Juan then throws the bag of holding into the portable hole, destroying the bag, the hole, and the Helcaerfax. Juan then bows to the crowd, florishes abit, and gets some lunch.
EDIT:
Or he just uses a Mirror of Opposition.

Fishy
2007-11-15, 11:51 PM
Juan sets up the Portable hole, then stands so that the hole is directly between him and Helcaerfax. He then says rude things about Helcaerfax until Helcaerfax charges him, and falls into the hole. Juan then throws the bag of holding into the portable hole, destroying the bag, the hole, and the Helcaerfax. Juan then bows to the crowd, florishes abit, and gets some lunch.

a) This is awesome.
b) Wasn't it established that exploded bags of holding dump their contents somewhere random in the Astral Plane?
c) What's the plan for if he decides not to charge, and blasts you out of existence with Sound of the Apocalypse?

Reinboom
2007-11-16, 12:03 AM
Dunno the level but
Juan Matador: Class: Irrelevant, all he needs is a portable hole and a small bag of holding.
Strategy:
Juan sets up the Portable hole, then stands so that the hole is directly between him and Helcaerfax. He then says rude things about Helcaerfax until Helcaerfax charges him, and falls into the hole. Juan then throws the bag of holding into the portable hole, destroying the bag, the hole, and the Helcaerfax. Juan then bows to the crowd, florishes abit, and gets some lunch.
EDIT:
Or he just uses a Mirror of Opposition.

Well, you'll have to be level 8, going by WbL.
So, you have 8 levels to work in ways to ensure you are immune to sound of the apocalypse and other ways to ensure you don't die first.

deadseashoals
2007-11-16, 12:07 AM
Just a side note, I believe Fax made a typo, his touch AC is supposed to be 30, not 20, which makes hitting him with those eldritch blasts all the more difficult. His flat-footed touch AC would be 24.

I'm not sure how to beat it at a sufficiently low level yet, I'll have to think on it.

Temp
2007-11-16, 12:33 AM
Well, you'll have to be level 8, going by WbL.
So, you have 8 levels to work in ways to ensure you are immune to sound of the apocalypse and other ways to ensure you don't die first.Maybe call him an Artificer to drop his ECL?

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-16, 12:54 AM
Bah. You call Crabthulhu and watch this inferior spawn bow before it's master........What? It's a solution!



Oh...I need an actual build?...Hmmm.....Necrotic Domination or whatever the spell is that'll put a tumor in it then use that tumor to envlop half of this new crab's brain. So...about the level to cast 7th level spells and high enough DC to get past those saves.

Chronos
2007-11-16, 12:58 AM
If the Crab can't retaliate, you could just keep going until you landed natural 20's on SR, beat the touch AC, and dealt at least 44 damage- 1123 times in a row.Eldritch Blast has a range of less than 3 miles, right? Because it doesn't need to know where you are to nuke you with a Sound of the Apocalypse.

Also, how does this thing behave? If it's getting its carapace kicked, will it try to put that 120' speed to good use retreating, or will it just keep on fighting?

Fishy
2007-11-16, 01:22 AM
If it were an area effect, sure. However, "The word kills or destroys up to 40 creatures, as selected by Helcaerfax, within a 16400-foot spread, centered on it." It's an actively targetted effect. I don't think the crab can 'select' a creature that it can't see, and doesn't know anything about.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-11-16, 01:34 AM
Is an undead Tainted Scholar build banned (considering that it can get nigh-infinite spell DCs)?

TheOOB
2007-11-16, 01:38 AM
You could just beat it with imprisonment or temporal stasis, those two effects are quite difficult to be immune to.

deadseashoals
2007-11-16, 01:51 AM
You could just beat it with imprisonment or temporal stasis, those two effects are quite difficult to be immune to.

Those both require touch attacks and saving throws.

TheOOB
2007-11-16, 01:59 AM
It's touch AC is pretty horrible. An archmage with double slotted arcane reach wouldn't have too much problem, and if you can get into melee without being killed it's not too hard.

It's saving throws are good, but not unbeatable, and at the very least you can hit it until it rolls a 1.

BRC
2007-11-16, 08:39 AM
Well, you'll have to be level 8, going by WbL.
So, you have 8 levels to work in ways to ensure you are immune to sound of the apocalypse and other ways to ensure you don't die first.
Well sound of the apocalypse is the only ranged attack Helcaerfax has, so we give juan a very good will save and bribe the DM with pizza.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-16, 10:20 AM
It's actually ECL 8, and you need 6 HD to get Leadership. So you need to be at least ECL 11 to pull this off.

ECL 8? The vivacious template is +3 LA. 3+1+2=6.

Good call on leadership, but the actual SRD reference escapes me.

Armads
2007-11-16, 10:24 AM
Level Adjustment for Vivacious (in Planar Handbook) is +5.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-16, 10:26 AM
Level Adjustment for Vivacious (in Planar Handbook) is +5.

CURSE YOU CRYSTALKEEP! :smallwink:

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 11:55 AM
Does the random field effect of Annhiliating Touch count against uses per day?Template doesn't say. I'll say yes.

Can we use epic spellcasting if it's specifically approved of by the DM (read: you)?
No. It's too easily breakable.

Do we need to be able to track down the crab or can we assume we already know where it is?
You know where it is.

No banned sourcebooks, right?Right.

What do we use to generate stats?Use the Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)

Oh, you may wish to identify a few other cases:
IE:
No Planar Shepherd
No Antimatter
Good idea.

Can't remember now, but energy damage was the energy types, excluding force and prismatic, right?
Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic, Positive, and Negative.

Banishment presumably doesn't count as victory, but just for information's sake, what plane is Helcaerfax native to?
Helcaerfax is native to the Astral Plane.
This might be a fun idea if it stuck to some basic MM creatures to start with. Another templated, advanced crab though...getting old.
The next one will not be a crab. It will, however, be terrifying.
ECL 3?

Drow Elf Paladin with maxed charisma and the Vermin Trainer feat.

The Crab's a Huge Vermin, so it would be +5 to the Handle Animal attempts, but I could still train it to play dead, and ambush on command..
"Rearing a wild animal", which is what Helcaerfax would be if he weren't an Outsider now, is a DC of 15+HD, or 55 in this case. I don't think you can hit a 55 at ECL 3.

Does the Wish need to be used? Because if that's the case, only a full caster or a UMD whore is going to be able to do it.
Or budget for a ring of three wishes.

Well... He doesn't have immunity to critical hits, he has 11 Wis, no ranks in Spot or Listen, and no blindsense.

In theory, your standard issue Rogue 19/Shadowdancer 1 could Snipe him into unconsiousness, if you got lucky and had a few years worth of arrows.

EDIT: CG Warforged Scout, Warlock1/Paladin Of Freedom 3/Rogue 15/Shadowdancer 1

Immune to fear, Helcaerfax literally can't see him, the Darkness invocation means we always have a sorce of shadows, and he snipes with a 9d6 ranged touch attack every round from now until the end of the universe. Godspeed.
ECL 20. Not bad.

Wish

Dead

Next Target
Still has to pass SR and save. Try again.

Errors fixed now.

Crab Slayer (A.K.A "The Sky's the limit")
Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Fighter 2/Conjurer (Immediate Magic) 3/Cleric 1/Warblade 7/Dragon Slayer 1
Medium Humanoid (Human, Dragonblood)
HD: 2d10 + 2d4 + 1d8 + 7d12 + 1d10 + 28 (109 hp)
Init: +11
Spd: 30 ft., Fly 30 ft. (Average)
AC: 19 (+5 armor, +4 dex)
BA/G: +11/+12
Atk: Mwk Longspear +19 melee (1d8 + 1/x3)
Full Atk: Mwk Longspear +19/+14/+9 melee (1d8 + 1/x3)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
SA: spells, maneuvers
SQ: gliding, Aura of Courage
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +16, Will +14
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Spot +19, Spellcraft +21, Tumble +22
Feats: Dodge (B, 1), Mobility (B, 1), Roofwalker (B, 2), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard, 3), Roof-Jumper (6), Iron Will (9), Improved Initiative (B, 9), ALERTNESS
Loot: Bead of Karma (20 000 gp), Scroll of Greater Teleport x2 (2 275 gp), +1 Chainshirt of Landing (5 250 gp), Belt of Battle (12 000 gp), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25 000 gp), Mwk Longspear (308 gp), Gloves of Dexterity +5 (25 000 gp), Rod of Lesser Extend (3 000 gp), Headband of Intellect +4 (16 000 gp), Orange Prism Ioun Stone (30 000 gp), Trollbane x10 (900 gp), 992 gp

Maneuvers of Note (IL 10th)
Boosts - White Raven Tactics
Counters - Lightning Recovery

Spells of Note (CL 13th) Banned Schools (Evocation, Enchantment)
Invisibility, Wraith Strike

TACTICS
Apply Trollbane to my weapon.
Cast Invisibility.
Activate the Bead of Karma and use the scroll of Greater Teleport to teleport 3610 feet above Helcaerfax.
Fall, using the glide ability of the Dragonborn to keep up if necessary.
Once 300 feet above Helcaerfax, cast an Extended Wraith Strike using the rod of extend spell.
Continue falling and stab Helcaerfax once it is within reach.
The attack would be a +22 touch attack which deals (360d6 + 1d8 + 1) which averages out to 1265 points of damage, easily enough to slay it as it's regeneration is negated by trollbane. If the attack misses, use Lightning Recovery to reroll the attack.

ECL 14? Nice. Anyone better?

You're right: I forgot that SR applies to Elderitch Blast: Paladin of Freedom 3/Warlock 11/Rogue 5/Shadowdancer 1 then: just barely enough to get 23 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently with 10 int, and still a 9d6 touch attack.

You're wrong about the 20s, though. Warforged don't age, eat, sleep or breathe, and Elderitch Blast costs zero resources. If the Crab can't retaliate, you could just keep going until you landed natural 20's on SR, beat the touch AC, and dealt at least 44 damage- 1123 times in a row.

Yes, that's going to take a while, but ridding the world of a creature like Helcaerfax is worth the sacrifice, right?
That requires a lot of time, which is something that you may not have. Further, you're within that entropic bubble of his when you're attacking him, and that may hurt.

Dunno the level but
Juan Matador: Class: Irrelevant, all he needs is a portable hole and a small bag of holding.
Strategy:
Juan sets up the Portable hole, then stands so that the hole is directly between him and Helcaerfax. He then says rude things about Helcaerfax until Helcaerfax charges him, and falls into the hole. Juan then throws the bag of holding into the portable hole, destroying the bag, the hole, and the Helcaerfax. Juan then bows to the crowd, florishes abit, and gets some lunch.
EDIT:
Or he just uses a Mirror of Opposition.
Portable Hole/Bag of Holding will just send him home. He'll get back. As for Mirror of Opposition, that's too easy. :smallbiggrin:

Bah. You call Crabthulhu and watch this inferior spawn bow before it's master........What? It's a solution!

Oh...I need an actual build?...Hmmm.....Necrotic Domination or whatever the spell is that'll put a tumor in it then use that tumor to envlop half of this new crab's brain. So...about the level to cast 7th level spells and high enough DC to get past those saves.
ECL 13. Have an actual build?

Also, how does this thing behave? If it's getting its carapace kicked, will it try to put that 120' speed to good use retreating, or will it just keep on fighting?
Being mindless, it's not very bright. It'll attack things that hurt it, unless they REALLY hurt it, in which case it will flee.

Is an undead Tainted Scholar build banned (considering that it can get nigh-infinite spell DCs)?
Yes.

You could just beat it with imprisonment or temporal stasis, those two effects are quite difficult to be immune to.
Correct, but you'll be at ECL 15 to do that. There's an ECL 14 winner above me.

ECL 8? The vivacious template is +3 LA. 3+1+2=6.

Good call on leadership, but the actual SRD reference escapes me.
Doesn't work anyway. Positive energy is included in energy immunity.

That should answer all the questions. Any other takers?

Person_Man
2007-11-16, 12:43 PM
Dumbluck the Crab Killer

Level adjusted Ghost (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) Fighter 1. ECL 2.

Dumbluck was killed trying to kill the Helcaerfax. He even found a Ring of Three Wishes, so that he could kill it permanently once it was dead. But he was so woefully unprepared, he was killed in the first round. His friends buried him and his possessions at the bottom of a very deep unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere. But the gods decided to torment him, and now he is risen as a ghost. Now he must attack the Helcaerfax, and cannot rest until it is dead.

Although its highly improbable that Dumbluck could defeat the Helcaerfax, Dumbluck is immortal. If he is killed, he will simply rise again and must confront the Helcaerfax over and over again. So its only a matter of time before Dumbluck rolls a long series of critical hits, and the Helcaerfax misses every attack. If the Helcaerfax is ever killed, Dumbluck can use his Ring of Wishes to end its life permanently.

Also, for the Warlock lovers out there, you can use my Adept of Darkness (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352) trick to gain Hide in Plain Site as a Swift Action. Pick up Skill Mastery somehow, and now its impossible to be targeted (though the crab can still guess your square or use its area of effect abilities on you).

brian c
2007-11-16, 12:45 PM
Eldritch Blast has a range of less than 3 miles, right? Because it doesn't need to know where you are to nuke you with a Sound of the Apocalypse.

Also, how does this thing behave? If it's getting its carapace kicked, will it try to put that 120' speed to good use retreating, or will it just keep on fighting?

Death Ward, or have a really high will save. Sound of the Apocalypse is only 1/day

Mewtarthio
2007-11-16, 12:52 PM
Unfortunately, Dumbluck needs at least three levels of the template to get Rejuvination. Additionally, Dumbluck has to make a DC 16 level check to return from the grave, so the earliest you can do that trick is ECL 18 (character level 15 plus LA +3).

EDIT: Death Ward explicitly doesn't work against Sound of the Apocalypse.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 02:25 PM
Unfortunately, Dumbluck needs at least three levels of the template to get Rejuvination. Additionally, Dumbluck has to make a DC 16 level check to return from the grave, so the earliest you can do that trick is ECL 18 (character level 15 plus LA +3).

EDIT: Death Ward explicitly doesn't work against Sound of the Apocalypse.

Unfortunately correct on both counts.

Chronos
2007-11-16, 04:43 PM
Being mindless, it's not very bright. It'll attack things that hurt it, unless they REALLY hurt it, in which case it will flee.OK, this means that anything that hopes to beat it must either do so very quickly, restrict its mobility somehow (hint: Walls of Force are vulnerable to Disintegrate), or be able to chase it at faster than 120 feet, including underwater. I don't know enough spatbooks to put in an entry myself, but this is something other contestants should keep in mind.

brian c
2007-11-16, 05:08 PM
EDIT: Death Ward explicitly doesn't work against Sound of the Apocalypse.

Whoops, misread that pretty badly. Whats the record at right now anyway, ECL 14?

Cruiser1
2007-11-16, 05:56 PM
Raptoran Rogue (level 12 or so)
Equipment: Scrolls of Antimagic field, best Composite Longbow you can afford with WBL, Ring of Three Wishes (1 wish left)
Tactics: When you in range of crab's (Su) abilities, use high UMD skill to activate antimagic field. You're now immune to all crab's nasty abilities, where crab is now just a big inert target. Use your natural wings to hover above crab, peppering it with arrows. When crab falls down, dismiss antimagic field and Wish it dead.

This idea seems like it would work, although it still needs to be fleshed out in an actual build. Need to find a way to ensure Sneak Attack or otherwise use math to ensure the damage per round overcomes crab's DR and Regeneration.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 06:42 PM
Whoops, misread that pretty badly. Whats the record at right now anyway, ECL 14?

So far, yes.

Cruiser1
2007-11-16, 06:56 PM
Here's another idea to take out the Helcaerfax that involves Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm), this time with the field surrounding not you, but rather the crab:

Wizard 11, Toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm) familiar

Tactics, part 1: Cast Invisibility and Overland Flight on yourself. Unseen by the crab, fly and hover right over its shell.

Tactics, part 2: As a standard action cast Antimagic Field, using Share Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars) so it's cast on your familiar instead of on yourself (which supresses your flight and causes you to land on its back). As a free action, drop the Toad into a rough spot in the crab's armor, where it's not likely to be noticed (a Toad has +19 to its Hide check). As a move action, jump off the crab's back and move 10 feet so you're outside of the antimagic field. As an immediate action, cast Celerity, and use the 2nd standard action it gives you to cast Dimension Door to get to a safe place where the crab doesn't attack you.

Tactics, part 3: Fly back and hover over the crab again where it can't reach you. The crab is stuck in an antimagic field since the Toad is next to it, so you and innocent bystandards are safe from all its (Su) abliities. Cast Orb of Force a bunch of times (buy a wand of it if necessary) to kill crab with Force damage. Orb spells are no-SR and no-Save, and are Conjuration (Creation) so they still hurt the crab even though its in an antimagic field since they damage with conjured "real" content instead of magic. Once crab falls, use Ring of Three Wishes to Wish it dead again.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 07:12 PM
Due to this clause:

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

...that doesn't quite work, but you may be able to get away with replacing antimagic field with antimagic ray.

deadseashoals
2007-11-16, 07:39 PM
Due to this clause:


...that doesn't quite work, but you may be able to get away with replacing antimagic field with antimagic ray.

You can cast personal range spells ON your familiar as well to get around this.

Cruiser1
2007-11-16, 07:55 PM
...that doesn't quite work, but you may be able to get away with replacing antimagic field with antimagic ray.
Good catch! However, I thought the "within 5 feet rule" only applied to the option of having a spell affect BOTH you and your familiar? The "Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of 'You' on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself" clause seems like a completely separate ability. (It's listed after the option to have a targeted spell affect both of you, and after that option's limitation of the familiar needing to stay within 5 feet.) However, to avoid any abiguity, let's cast Antimagic Ray (or rather use a scroll of it since it's a 7th level spell and my Wizard is level 11) instead to accomplish the same thing.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 08:06 PM
Good catch! However, I thought the "within 5 feet rule" only applied to the option of having a spell affect BOTH you and your familiar? The "Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of 'You' on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself" clause seems like a completely separate ability. (It's listed after the option to have a targeted spell affect both of you, and after that option's limitation of the familiar needing to stay within 5 feet.) However, to avoid any abiguity, let's cast Antimagic Ray (or rather use a scroll of it since it's a 7th level spell and my Wizard is level 11) instead to accomplish the same thing.

So ECL 11 so far, provided you have the ability to strike an AC 30 (or 24 if you flat-foot it) with a ranged touch.

Foxpaw
2007-11-16, 08:10 PM
Cast Orb of Force a bunch of times (buy a wand of it if necessary) to kill crab with Force damage.

Is it just me, or would this (and the Warlock build) not work since:


Regeneration (Ex): Helcaerfax has regeneration 30 . This regeneration cannot be overcome, and Helcaerfax can only be truly slain by dealing it nonlethal damage equal to its full normal hit points + its Constitution modifier and then using a wish or miracle to keep it dead.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 08:12 PM
Is it just me, or would this (and the Warlock build) not work since:

Regeneration makes lethal damage into nonlethal damage.


Regeneration
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Foxpaw
2007-11-16, 08:17 PM
Ahh, I figured I must be missing something.

Tequila Sunrise
2007-11-16, 08:22 PM
What's the deal with all the crabs? I feel a freudian metaphor coming on...

Fax Celestis
2007-11-16, 08:51 PM
What's the deal with all the crabs? I feel a freudian metaphor coming on...

That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a)originated as a CR 3 that was not a CR 3 (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=433). It escalated when an advanced version (supposedly CR 8) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48890) was found in the remade Whiteplume Mountain module. Then, I went ahead and made it a deity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3227211#post3227211). This is merely the latest incarnation.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-16, 09:26 PM
Okay. So, currently, the lowest you need is either enough to cast one of the spheres as maximized (Hint: the level of the sphere + the next thing, just get a maximizing rod), and with a changed type to prismatic or force, or enough for defenestrating sphere.

martyboy74
2007-11-16, 10:32 PM
What about a Thri-Kreen Snekk Attack Fighter (LA 2/Monstrous Humanoid 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 9) using wands of Antimagic Ray and Girallon's Blessing using Heavy Crossbows with Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow) and Telling Blow (PHB2)? That'd be 7 shots per round, each with a 20% chance of critting, and dealing 5d6 points of sneak attack damage. Someone want to run with that idea?

Cruiser1
2007-11-16, 10:51 PM
So ECL 11 so far, provided you have the ability to strike an AC 30 (or 24 if you flat-foot it) with a ranged touch.
A Wand of True Strike will of course easily do that, however then you're only attacking once every other round, which makes it much harder to overcome Regeneration. Casting Quickened True Strike will also work nicely, but you only have so many 5th level spell slots. To make this work with straight attacks:

Cast [Extended] Greater Invisibility to give yourself 11 [22] rounds of striking while invisible (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility), which will negate its DEX bonus to AC and give you +2 to hit. In summary:

+5: A Wizard 11 has BAB +5
+6: 22 DEX (15 natural +2 being an Elf +1 level up +4 from casting Cat's Grace)
+1: Weapon Focus [Ray]
+2: Being invisible
+1: Cast [Extended] Haste
+4: Cast Greater Heroism
+3: Cast Sure Strike (swift action) before every zap. Abuse a Wand of [Rary's] Mnemonic Enhancer to give yourself enough 2nd level slots.

That's 22 total, which hits AC 24 on every roll but a 1 (which misses anyway).

Citizen Jenkins
2007-11-16, 11:45 PM
Thought I'd leave my little lurker hole to take a shot at this guy, or at least 65% of one

ECL 9, a.k.a "Bob"
Character:
Bob is a level six gnome wizard who pick up a level of Tainted Scholar and two levels of Fatespinner, giving him an overall caster level of 9. He's kept his Corruption and Depravity scores moderate (24 and 20 respectively) by putting his highest scores into Constitution and Wisdom, along with using UMD divine wands. For feats, he's taken Spell Focus+Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Malign Spell Focus), Silent Spell, and Surge of Malevolence. For this fight, he's memorized a Magic Jar spell, an Assay Spell Resistance, Mystic Surge, a silent Flare, Flight, Teleport, and Invisibility.

Plan of Attack:
Bob goes over to his friend's house, who he trusts and lives far from the scary crab, with a commoner, a bag of drugs, and a 100gp gem. He then ingests Mushroom Powder and Terran Brandy before casting Mystic Surge (using celerity if necessary) and Magic Jar, using his Fatespinner power to "spin" the Magic Jar and his Blood Component ability. Bob, now in his new and expendable body, Teleports within a safe distance of the frightening crab and casts Invisibility along with Flight. He then scopes out the Crab and finds a nice hiding place. Bob settles down behind something large, casts Assay Spell Resistance, and switches back into the gem. At this point he attempts to switch souls with the crab.
Against the crab's SR 30, Bob has
9 caster levels
+1 Blood Component
+2 Terran Brandy
+1 Mystic Surge
+10 from Assay Spell Resistance
and +6 from Surge of Malevolence
which adds up to +29, which means unless he rolls a 1, he's making it

Then, against the crab's Will save of +22, Bob has
15 base DC
+12 Corruption Score
+4 Feats
+2 Mystic Surge
+1 Mushroom Powder
+2 Fatespinner
Which is a DC 36 as I count, giving him a 65% chance of success. It would be higher, since the Fatespinner also gives the Fickle Finger of Fate ability which would force the crab to reroll a successful save except I'm not sure how it would work. Fickle Finger requires line of sight and I'm not sure how that works when you're in a gem, although the spell description of Magic Jar says it requires line of effect. If hypothetical DM allows it, the success rate goes up to about 87%.

Presuming he's been successful, Bob the crab now walks back over to the gem, now holding the crab's soul. He then proceeds to cast a Silent Flare by concentrating for six seconds and uses the crab's soul as a spell component (a la the Book of Vile Darkness), hopefully consuming it's soul utterly and destroying it forever. If not, Bob has about 12 more hours to find a way to kill himself.

If all has gone well, Bob now walks home in his giant new crab body and invites all his other soul-consuming friends over because he now has the coolest car in the neighborhood.

I realize that the Tainted Scholar will probably draw some flack but I really like the class and by keeping the taint moderate, I'm trying to keep the class reasonable.

Cruiser1
2007-11-17, 07:18 AM
What about a Thri-Kreen Snekk Attack Fighter (LA 2/Monstrous Humanoid 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 9) using wands of Antimagic Ray and Girallon's Blessing using Heavy Crossbows with Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow) and Telling Blow (PHB2)?
Regrettably, that won't work as written. The spell Antimagic Ray is 7th level. Wands (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wands.htm) only exist for spells up to 4th level. Unlike other magic item types, there's no Epic version (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicFeats.htm) of wands either (and even if there were, since Epic spellcasting is already banned for this challenge, Epic magic items probably aren't allowed either).

lostlittlebear
2007-11-17, 08:54 AM
Perhaps instead of magic jarring the crab, Bob could simply grab a metamagic wand of maximize, and a scroll of greater invisibility.

He fills up all his 4th level slots with "shivering touch".

Then he casts greater invisibility, teleports in, and after negating the crab's spell resistance with Citizen Jenkin's method, he casts true strike, then at the next round maximized shivering touch.

Bob's BaB is +4, given a +20 from true strike and +2 from invisibility that would give him a +26, against the crab's flat-footed touch AC of 24. :D

So unless he rolls a 1, it's 18 dex damage.

Two rounds after that, he follows up with another maximized shivering touch.

Then he takes out a scythe, and CdGs the crab for the rest of the day. It has to roll a 1 on it's fort save sometime.

This seems like a really dumb way in which to kill the crab, so I really hope someone finds a problem with it, cause it'd be a bit sad if such a incredible creature dies in such a stupid way.

Cruiser1
2007-11-17, 08:59 AM
Let's beat the crab with a level 1 character! :smallsmile:

This is similar to the "ocean of holy water" trick. The crab is a Chaotic Outsider, so it's affected by axiomatic water. Just cast Axiomatic Water from SC a bunch of times, fill a Bag of Holding with the deadly water, then fly invisibly over the crab, land on its back (move action), and dump the water over it (standard action). If you need a touch attack for the dumping to work, then cast True Strike first. This can be done by a level 1 Cleric (take the Time domain from SC so True Strike is on your spell list) who casts Axiomatic Water beforehand, and has the equipment: Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Fly, Bag of Holding, and Ring of Three Wishes (1 charge left). The only limitation on your level is wealth, i.e. whether you can afford the gear and the 25 gold per casting of Axiomatic Water.

Axiomatic water deals 2d4 damage (average 5) to Chaotic Outsiders. We need to do 1123 hp + 16 CON modifier + 30 regeneration = 1169 damage to defeat it, so we need 234 castings of Axiomatic Water, which costs 5850 gold in material components.

If WBL is an issue, then the Cleric goes to his temple, and makes a Diplomacy check for them to loan him equipment. Be a Cleric of a Good god, and say you'll slay a great evil in their name, and share the loot from the crab with them, which will pay them back and bring your temple glory and many followers. The Cleric's own temple should have an attitude of Friendly, where a DC 20 check turns them into Helpful, i.e. willing to aid you. For the Diplomacy check:

+4: Ranks
+2: CHA modifier from 14 CHA
+2: Half elf
+2: Negotiator feat
+10: Take 10 since you're not threatened
Total: 20 :smallsmile:

Chronos
2007-11-17, 12:58 PM
I'm not sure how well Magic jar would work... You're saying that you trap the crab's soul in the gem, while you occupy its body, but the crab is an outsider, which means that it doesn't have a body/soul duality. I'm not sure exactly what would happen if you tried it, but my best guesses are either that it just doesn't work, or that the crab (in its entirety) gets trapped, and your soul is left outside of any body (which is probably not good for you).

Fax Celestis
2007-11-17, 01:04 PM
Perhaps instead of magic jarring the crab, Bob could simply grab a metamagic wand of maximize, and a scroll of greater invisibility.

He fills up all his 4th level slots with "shivering touch".

Then he casts greater invisibility, teleports in, and after negating the crab's spell resistance with Citizen Jenkin's method, he casts true strike, then at the next round maximized shivering touch.

Bob's BaB is +4, given a +20 from true strike and +2 from invisibility that would give him a +26, against the crab's flat-footed touch AC of 24. :D

So unless he rolls a 1, it's 18 dex damage.

Two rounds after that, he follows up with another maximized shivering touch.

Then he takes out a scythe, and CdGs the crab for the rest of the day. It has to roll a 1 on it's fort save sometime.

This seems like a really dumb way in which to kill the crab, so I really hope someone finds a problem with it, cause it'd be a bit sad if such a incredible creature dies in such a stupid way.

Helcaerfax is immune to ability damage. Sorry.

Let's beat the crab with a level 1 character! :smallsmile:

This is similar to the "ocean of holy water" trick. The crab is a Chaotic Outsider, so it's affected by axiomatic water. Just cast Axiomatic Water from SC a bunch of times, fill a Bag of Holding with the deadly water, then fly invisibly over the crab, land on its back (move action), and dump the water over it (standard action). If you need a touch attack for the dumping to work, then cast True Strike first. This can be done by a level 1 Cleric (take the Time domain from SC so True Strike is on your spell list) who casts Axiomatic Water beforehand, and has the equipment: Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Fly, Bag of Holding, and Ring of Three Wishes (1 charge left). The only limitation on your level is wealth, i.e. whether you can afford the gear and the 25 gold per casting of Axiomatic Water.

Axiomatic water deals 2d4 damage (average 5) to Chaotic Outsiders. We need to do 1123 hp + 16 CON modifier + 30 regeneration = 1169 damage to defeat it, so we need 234 castings of Axiomatic Water, which costs 5850 gold in material components.

If WBL is an issue, then the Cleric goes to his temple, and makes a Diplomacy check for them to loan him equipment. Be a Cleric of a Good god, and say you'll slay a great evil in their name, and share the loot from the crab with them, which will pay them back and bring your temple glory and many followers. The Cleric's own temple should have an attitude of Friendly, where a DC 20 check turns them into Helpful, i.e. willing to aid you. For the Diplomacy check:

+4: Ranks
+2: CHA modifier from 14 CHA
+2: Half elf
+2: Negotiator feat
+10: Take 10 since you're not threatened
Total: 20 :smallsmile:That could...actually...work. Hm.

I'm not sure how well Magic jar would work... You're saying that you trap the crab's soul in the gem, while you occupy its body, but the crab is an outsider, which means that it doesn't have a body/soul duality. I'm not sure exactly what would happen if you tried it, but my best guesses are either that it just doesn't work, or that the crab (in its entirety) gets trapped, and your soul is left outside of any body (which is probably not good for you).

I'll have to look into that.

Citizen Jenkins
2007-11-17, 01:13 PM
I hadn't considered that Chronos and I doubt there's any official ruling but in the Book of Vile Darkness it covers fiends possessing other creatures (p.23). There it specifically states that for a fiend to possess a mortal form it must take an ethereal form and leave it's corporeal body behind, which is left in a kind of suspended animation. Which certainly indicates to me that there's some soul/body distinction even for fiends. Unfortunately, all that's in the optional rules section.

And it's one thing to kill the crab, it's another thing to take it's soulless body back home and leave it in your garage. Which is why I prefer the Magic Jar to killing it outright lostlittlebear.

Armads
2007-11-17, 06:55 PM
Let's beat the crab with a level 1 character! :smallsmile:

This is similar to the "ocean of holy water" trick. The crab is a Chaotic Outsider, so it's affected by axiomatic water. Just cast Axiomatic Water from SC a bunch of times, fill a Bag of Holding with the deadly water, then fly invisibly over the crab, land on its back (move action), and dump the water over it (standard action). If you need a touch attack for the dumping to work, then cast True Strike first. This can be done by a level 1 Cleric (take the Time domain from SC so True Strike is on your spell list) who casts Axiomatic Water beforehand, and has the equipment: Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Fly, Bag of Holding, and Ring of Three Wishes (1 charge left). The only limitation on your level is wealth, i.e. whether you can afford the gear and the 25 gold per casting of Axiomatic Water.

Axiomatic water deals 2d4 damage (average 5) to Chaotic Outsiders. We need to do 1123 hp + 16 CON modifier + 30 regeneration = 1169 damage to defeat it, so we need 234 castings of Axiomatic Water, which costs 5850 gold in material components.

If WBL is an issue, then the Cleric goes to his temple, and makes a Diplomacy check for them to loan him equipment. Be a Cleric of a Good god, and say you'll slay a great evil in their name, and share the loot from the crab with them, which will pay them back and bring your temple glory and many followers. The Cleric's own temple should have an attitude of Friendly, where a DC 20 check turns them into Helpful, i.e. willing to aid you. For the Diplomacy check:

+4: Ranks
+2: CHA modifier from 14 CHA
+2: Half elf
+2: Negotiator feat
+10: Take 10 since you're not threatened
Total: 20 :smallsmile:

But WBL is part of the challenge.

brian c
2007-11-17, 07:03 PM
But WBL is part of the challenge.

If Dragonwrought Kobold early-epic cheese is allowed, then you can take Ignore Material Components and do a lot of stuff easier, bypassing WBL restrictions for spell components.

Armads
2007-11-17, 08:15 PM
If Dragonwrought Kobold early-epic cheese is allowed, then you can take Ignore Material Components and do a lot of stuff easier, bypassing WBL restrictions for spell components.

He still needs a ring of three wishes.

brian c
2007-11-17, 08:34 PM
He still needs a ring of three wishes.

Well, you only need to be high enough level to afford by WBL a Ring with 1 wish left (which is by itself a bit off-RAW maybe), so ~30k gold I think. It's up to Fax if this counts though (or if Dragonwrought Kobold epic-ness is allowed)

Hario
2007-11-18, 12:46 AM
Wizard 7 all core:

Equiptment Scroll of Symbol of Persuasion (level 6 caster level 11. 6,650 gp), Scroll of Sequester(level 7, caster level 13. 2,275 gp) Ring of 3 wishes (1 wish left variable amount)

The wizard has Invisibility cast and finds the crab, he cast Illusory wall multiple times and forms walls on each side of the crab giving him plenty of space, the Crab is mindless and cannot notice they are not Illusions. The Wizard then casts Symbol of Persuasion, it will eventually fail its will save within 20 rounds and can be persuaded by the crab. It then Coaxs the crab to let it be sequestered (just has to be willing, very vague on the term willing.) The crab is now Comatose for 13 days all the wile the wizard is Coupe de gracing it over and over and over.

Armads
2007-11-18, 02:33 AM
You can't buy a ring of three wishes with only 1 wish left at level 7.


The crab is now Comatose for 13 days all the wile the wizard is Coupe de gracing it over and over and over.

You cannot coup de grace a creature if you cannot deal lethal damage to it. You'll need trollbane, but it'll make your build non-core.

How would Rhino Rush affect a mounted charger who has Riding Boots? Is the charge damage multiplier x5 or x8? Also, what is the power attack ratio of a Leap Attack with a 2H weapon with a Favoured Power Attack? (Is it x4?).

If I had ECL 10 wealth I could do it with a 8th level human (or Orc, if multiclassing penalties don't apply) fighter 4/cleric 1/rogue 1/barbarian 1/ranger 1...

Hario
2007-11-18, 09:21 AM
You can't buy a ring of three wishes with only 1 wish left at level 7.



You cannot coup de grace a creature if you cannot deal lethal damage to it. You'll need trollbane, but it'll make your build non-core.



That doesn't fully nullify my build, I just didn't know how to price it, if I really want to I could have just had the wizard buy a scroll of wish, which is prolly more easier to make the caster level check for.

lord_khaine
2007-11-18, 12:35 PM
hmm, a lv 11 psion could do it with the power crystalise and the hope that eventualy it would roll a 1 on its save.

flying should keep the psion out of the range of the crabs devastating melee attacks while energy adaption would give 20 sonic resistance.

of course, this is assuming turning the crab to crystal and then grinding it to a fine powder would count as killing it.

Citizen Jenkins
2007-11-18, 12:50 PM
Hario, I'm not sure if the Illusionary walls would work but I'm fairly certain that Symbol of persuasion, which is both mind-affecting and a charm effect, won't.

Cruiser1, how critical is it to your plan to actually land on the crab? Because it still has that 30ft fear aura.

Armads, because of that fear aura, I don't think a mounted charger is the way to go. Even if you managed to sneak up on the crab, even if your charger can make his will save, I doubt your mount can.

Also, if this is a hunt club, when is the next hunt?

Cruiser1
2007-11-18, 01:48 PM
Cruiser1, how critical is it to your plan to actually land on the crab? Because it still has that 30ft fear aura.
That's not important. You can pour the bag of axiomatic water upon the crab from 30 feet up. Especially since my level 1 build includes a casting of True Strike to ensure you hit.

Even if you actually want to land on the crab, the 30 foot fear aura isn't a problem. Just wait until you roll a 20 on your Will Save. For the other rolls, there's no penalty other than you fleeing for 2 minutes and having to come back to try again afterward.

But WBL is part of the challenge.
Indeed, that's why half of the post for my level 1 build is about how to make a valid DC 20 Diplomacy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm) check to ensure people's attitude is Helpful so they're willing to loan you funds. That technique is admittedly a gray area and subject to DM approval of course. :smallsmile:

brian c
2007-11-18, 02:48 PM
Also, if this is a hunt club, when is the next hunt?

Fax is probably waiting for someone to get an ECL 1 winner before moving on :P


Also, Fax, still waiting on you to rule whether or not the Dragonwrought Kobold epic trick is allowable.

Cruiser1
2007-11-18, 03:28 PM
If a Diplomacy check to get gear beyond the WBL limits is too much, you can still defeat the crab with a level 1 character. (And it doesn't involve cheese like starting with a higher level character with more wealth, and letting a Succubus drain your levels, so you have a level 1 character with extra stuff.) My level 1 character has 4 ranks in Profession: Basketweaver. When he hears about the crab, he run away and starts selling baskets. From a Profession (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) check he gets (4 ranks + 2 WIS modifier + 10.5 average roll) / 2 = 8 gold per week. After a few decades, he has enough gold to buy the appropriate gear, then he comes back and deals with the crab. :smallwink:

To Wish the crab dead, cheaper than a Ring of Three Wishes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#threeWishes) (97950 gold), and even chaper than a Ring of Three Wishes with 1 charge left (should cost about 32650) is a Candle of Invocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#candleofInvocation) (costs only 8400). Choose to Gate in a Solar that hasn't used its Wish ability yet today. If you're low enough level, the Solar won't be under your control, but you can make a Diplomacy check and ask it to terminate this abomination of Chaos, and it should agree.

Using a Candle of Invocation for the Wish, my level 1 build turns into a level 7 build, which starts with 19000 worth of gold. Total cost of gear is:

8400: Candle of Invocation
5850: Cast Axiomatic Water 234 times
2500: Bag of Holding
750: Potion of Fly
300: Potion of Invisibility
17800: Total, which a level 7 character can afford


Also, if this is a hunt club, when is the next hunt?
Are other people allowed to make up and post monsters in the hunt club as well? I've got an idea or two. :smallamused:

Fax Celestis
2007-11-18, 08:51 PM
Target 2: Steena Delphinnia, Seer of the Future will be up on the 23rd. If you have ideas for Targets, let me know (preferably via email instead of PM).

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-18, 09:04 PM
Before we start on such a critter, I've a counter: Gate in whatever the abomination that could manipulate time. There, anyone who works with the future is scrood, unless some kind of countermeasure is set up.