how does an (any) elf warlock gain access to bless spell..

[animewatcha]

Say warlock is alone and no party members or cohorts to cast the bless spell on him/her. Race is any of the elves cause of Elven Accuracy. The idea is to be able to use bless anytime need to without it being a one-use time like a potion or a scroll. I already tried looking at necklace of prayer beads, but that requirement attunement by non-warlock. What other options are available? It needs to be bless, not bane.

[stoutstien]

Fey touched feat is an easy way to grab it and a stat boost to boot.

[PhantomSoul]

- Multiclassing
- The Fey Touched Feat
- DM generosity

Why do you need Bless, though?

[Man_Over_Game]

1 level into Divine Soul Sorcerer gets you Bless. 2 levels gets you Metamagic, which is a very strong compliment to Warlock casting.

[PhantomSoul]

1 level into Divine Soul Sorcerer gets you Bless. 2 levels gets you Metamagic, which is a very strong compliment to Warlock casting.

Two gets you Sorcery Points, but it takes three levels for Metamagic

[Man_Over_Game]

Two gets you Sorcery Points, but it takes three levels for Metamagic

Sorry, you're right. Just to clarify to the OP, you only need the Sorcery Points feature for the synergy, Metamagic is just icing on top (if you want to take a third level). Warlock/Sorcerer is notoriously strong, but only if the user wants it to be.

[Pex]

Magic Initiate, take Bless.

Errata says you can only cast the spell once, but the feat says you know the spell. The feat allows you to cast it once without a spell slot, but you have spell slots. Use them. Need back up? Tasha book has similar feats. They specifically say you can use a spell slot for the spell you know. That doesn't prove Magic Initiate means you can't. It means Magic Initiate should have all along. It's still a cleric spell, so it uses WI as the modifier. Bless doesn't care about the modifier, so there's no pressure on your WI score.

[JackPhoenix]

Magic Initiate, take Bless.

Errata says you can only cast the spell once, but the feat says you know the spell. The feat allows you to cast it once without a spell slot, but you have spell slots. Use them. Need back up? Tasha book has similar feats. They specifically say you can use a spell slot for the spell you know. That doesn't prove Magic Initiate means you can't. It means Magic Initiate should have all along. It's still a cleric spell, so it uses WI as the modifier. Bless doesn't care about the modifier, so there's no pressure on your WI score.

Yes, it's a cleric spell. To be able to use your spell slots to cast cleric spells, you'll need to have a level of cleric to gain cleric's Spellcasting ability.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Magic Initiate, take Bless.

Errata says you can only cast the spell once, but the feat says you know the spell. The feat allows you to cast it once without a spell slot, but you have spell slots. Use them. Need back up? Tasha book has similar feats. They specifically say you can use a spell slot for the spell you know. That doesn't prove Magic Initiate means you can't. It means Magic Initiate should have all along. It's still a cleric spell, so it uses WI as the modifier. Bless doesn't care about the modifier, so there's no pressure on your WI score.

That's a bold assertion. By that same token, one could claim that since Magic Initiate doesn't say it, then that's because they didn't intend for it to be used that way. Especially since the feat has been subject to errata, and it didn't mention anything about it. RAW, your assertion cannot be supported.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Magic Initiate, take Bless.

Errata says you can only cast the spell once, but the feat says you know the spell. The feat allows you to cast it once without a spell slot, but you have spell slots. Use them. Need back up? Tasha book has similar feats. They specifically say you can use a spell slot for the spell you know. That doesn't prove Magic Initiate means you can't. It means Magic Initiate should have all along.
Cheers to this! 🍻

Yes, it's a cleric spell. To be able to use your spell slots to cast cleric spells, you'll need to have a level of cleric to gain cleric's Spellcasting ability.

From the Magic Initiate feat:
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn* from that same list. Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again. (*italics added)

When you learn a spell the result is you Know it.
A multi-class Divine Soul Sorcerer/ Druid for example can cast spells they Know, (that they Learned as they advanced) in any of their multi-class spell slots.

The introduction of the Fey Touched and Shadow Touched feats, demonstrates that the ruling in Errata is effectively wrong headed.

Allowing characters that Know spells from Feats, to cast those Feat gained spells in their Caster Level based spell slots breaks nothing...except a source of player frustration.

[Reach Weapon]

A multi-class Divine Soul Sorcerer/ Druid for example can cast spells they Know, (that they Learned as they advanced) in any of their multi-class spell slots.
The text of the spellcasting abilities for both those classes explicitly restrict themselves to their respective spell lists. As always, your table...

[Chronos]

By RAW, a single-classed sorcerer or wizard who takes Magic Initiate: Bless can't cast it using their spell slots, but a multi-classed sorcerer/wizard who takes the feat can cast it using their spell slots. But this is a ridiculous rule, that should be houseruled.

[Hytheter]

The introduction of the Fey Touched and Shadow Touched feats, demonstrates that the ruling in Errata is effectively wrong headed.

What it demonstrates is that their design philosophy has changed. Regardless, as it stands the old feat is still subject to the old philosophy, as are older racial spells and such. You're welcome to rule otherwise at your table, though - heck, I encourage it. Restricting it from being cast out of slots was always stupid.

[RogueJK]

What it demonstrates is that their design philosophy has changed. Regardless, as it stands the old feat is still subject to the old philosophy, as are older racial spells and such.

Exactly. Look at Artificer Initiate (which is practically Magic Initiate: Artificer), which was released later. It reads, in part:

"You can cast this feat's 1st-level spell without a spell slot, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again. You can also cast the spell using any spell slots you have."

The bolded section, which is missing from the older Magic Initiate feat, is the key here. That's what has changed lately, and other newer feats that grant 1st/2nd level spells known (like Fey/Shadow Touched or the UA Draconic spell feats) include similar wording as well.

I agree that allowing Magic Initiate to work the same way is a very reasonable houserule. But as it stands RAW, the original Magic Initiate lacks that specific wording, and it has not been officially added in any ruling/errata.

[Valmark]

I would note that before the errata you could cast the spell only once per long rest. With the errata they specified that you could cast it only once per long rest through the feat- that would imply you could cast it multiple times, just not for free.

As is, there's nothing forbidding someone from casting a Magic Initiate spell through spell slots within MI's text.

Regardless, unless Fey-Touched is bad for rp reasons (or you don't use Tasha) that's the superior feat if you want access to Bless.
And unless the cantrip Magic Initiate gives is important.

I wouldn't multiclass unless you're going past level 10- imo once mystic arcanums start rolling in is when the warlock's new features get less interesting (not that it doesn't get anything cool or strong).

[Burley]

I know that, if you don't have anybody to recharge it, it counts as a one-use item, but Ring of Spell Storing can hold 5 castings of Bless, if that's the only spell you want.
You could pretty easily have it charged back up by a party member with the spell or by dropping some GP at the obligatory small temple of any village that gives a quest.

[Thunderous Mojo]

The text of the spellcasting abilities for both those classes explicitly restrict themselves to their respective spell lists. As always, your table...

Which is why the example I used highlights that a Druid/Sorcerer multi-classed character can use their spell slots to cast appropriate spells, be it Prepared spells or Known spells.

(At least that was my intention, I may not have conveyed it sufficiently)

Magic Initiate has been designed to partially emulate a level of multi-classing.

I'm failing to see what you are trying to state with your quote?

Part of updating statues in Law is applying the current legal interpretations to statues that were written previously, sometimes hundreds of years previously. That is in part how law is applied equally, both to those it applies to, and the Law itself.

The same is true of any artificial rules based system, such as a seven year old RPG.

TCoE dispels any notion that allowing one to use Spell slots to cast the spell learned with the Magic Initiate feat is somehow overpowered or inflicting harm or distress to Prepared Caster/Known Spells multi-class combos.



I agree that allowing Magic Initiate to work the same way is a very reasonable houserule. But as it stands RAW, the original Magic Initiate lacks that specific wording, and it has not been officially added in any ruling/errata.

Using this quote as a springboard, but isn't it time that we as a board, stop endorsing and promoting the notion that RAW, at all places in the rules, is clearly stated and leads to a single, inarguable, conclusion?

Past Experience, and the Current thread actively discussing the Clone spell provide ample evidence that punctures the soundness of such notions about RAW.✌️

[Frogreaver]

I would note that before the errata you could cast the spell only once per long rest. With the errata they specified that you could cast it only once per long rest through the feat- that would imply you could cast it multiple times, just not for free.

To me the errata was just clearing up that you could use regular spell slots on it (provided casting that spell with your regular spell slots was permitted). - IMO it was ambiguous before.

[Valmark]

To me the errata was just clearing up that you could use regular spell slots on it (provided casting that spell with your regular spell slots was permitted). - IMO it was ambiguous before.

I wonder- " You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again." doesn't seem (to me) to leave much room for interpretation.

Regardless, agreed on the errata- you (a general you) can use slots for it plenty fine now.

[Burley]

So, I looked up Bless's spell description and the Alchemist Artificer can emulate it with the Experimental Elixir class feature (the Boldness recipe). If you take a 3 level dip in Artificer, you can burn a spell slot to create a new Boldness Elixir.
This class feature effectively adds single target Bless, Flight, Long Strider, Healing Word and Alter Self to your spell list, and there's also a bad option that only gives +1 AC, but you may want it, I dunno.

[Reach Weapon]

I'm failing to see what you are trying to state with your quote?
With the notable exception of Divine Soul, as I understand what is currently written, the Druid/Sorcerer multiclass character lacks a spellcasting ability that would enable them to use their spell slots to cast Bless. I'm largely in favor of your arguments, but I thought it was worth mentioning, and going from there.

[JackPhoenix]

With the notable exception of Divine Soul, as I understand what is currently written, the Druid/Sorcerer multiclass character lacks a spellcasting ability that would enable them to use their spell slots to cast Bless. I'm largely in favor of your arguments, but I thought it was worth mentioning, and going from there.

And Divine Soul can only cast Bless from a slot if you've picked it as one of your sorcerer spells. DS doesn't give blank access to cleric's list, it allows you to pick some spells from it and count them as sorcerer spells.

[Kuulvheysoon]

And Divine Soul can only cast Bless from a slot if you've picked it as one of your sorcerer spells. DS doesn't give blank access to cleric's list, it allows you to pick some spells from it and count them as sorcerer spells.

To be fair, any DSS picking Law as their affinity gets bless as a bonus spell, and they don't need to use a valuable spell known slot on it.

[Willie the Duck]

Not being one to follow RAW or errata all that closely, but mildly curious at this point: how does it work for spells granted by race (tiefling, gith, etc.)? Can those RAW be cast with other slots?

[Man_Over_Game]

Don't you guys think we're getting a bit off track?

The last suggestion for OP was Post #7. We've been bickering about Errata nonstop for twice that.

[Kane0]

Say warlock is alone and no party members or cohorts to cast the bless spell on him/her. Race is any of the elves cause of Elven Accuracy. The idea is to be able to use bless anytime need to without it being a one-use time like a potion or a scroll. I already tried looking at necklace of prayer beads, but that requirement attunement by non-warlock. What other options are available? It needs to be bless, not bane.

Feats (Magic Initiate, Fey Touched)
Multiclassing (Cleric, Paladin, Divine Sorcerer)
Nice DM - Class (swap Celstial patron expanded spell for Bless)
Nice DM - Background (Ravnica sets precedent and PHB/DMG allows for configurable backgrounds)
Nice DM - Subrace (swap Drow/Pallid/Shadow racial Spell for Bless)
Nice DM - Magic item or Epic Boon (get it as a spell known)

[Burley]

Don't you guys think we're getting a bit off track?

The last suggestion for OP was Post #7. We've been bickering about Errata nonstop for twice that.

Technically, I was on topic with post #20, too. But, I'm not splitting hairs. Even if post #20 was a really good idea from a smart guy with nice hair.

Anyway, yeah, can we get back to how to give a WARLOCK one of the least interesting 1st level spells ever? (For real, +1d4 to attack rolls and saving throws that requires concentration is kinda trash. The only thing that makes Bless even close to good is that it can affect three creatures, but the Warlock in this scenario is alone, so... It's worse than True Strike, which is on the Warlock's list already.)

[JackPhoenix]

Not being one to follow RAW or errata all that closely, but mildly curious at this point: how does it work for spells granted by race (tiefling, gith, etc.)? Can those RAW be cast with other slots?

Not unless the racial ability says it can. Hexblood can, no other race does, IIRC. As with the feats, it changed with Trasha.