RotFM Ranger Sub class choice

[Master O'Laughs]

So I have a tortle melee STR ranger. Not the most optimized, but I am having fun. We are level 2 and one fight away from level 3. I was originally planning on going Gloom Stalker because it seems like a fun sub-class, especially with 2 levels of fighter mixed in eventually, but...

I now have a "pet" owl bear youngling. DM says at lvl 5, the owl bear will become Large and have full stats. I was wondering if an owl bear might make a good chasis for a Beast Master Ranger companion. DM said he would allow it.

Only issue I see is it would compete with my action to attack until lvl 5.

I was originally thinking GWM for a lvl 4 feat, but if I go Beast master, I would probably forgo that.

Thoughts?

Other party members are:

Dragonborn Barbarian
Goliath Order Cleric
Human Warlock, not sure which patron
Human or half-elf necromancer wizard
Loxodon Star Druid

[Master O'Laughs]

To clarify, If i do go Gloomstalker, I plan on the owl bear mainly being there to pull our sled since I don't want to game the system with extra combatants... as well as lose the owl bear in combat.

[strangebloke]

The problem is, this is an optimization forum and you're not asking a question related to optimization. The only person who can answer which seems more fun is you.

But as for optimization...

Yeah, beastmaster is better here. I don't think the owlbear gets its multiattack, but 2d8+5+prof is still a really heavy hitting attack. Its HP is stupidly high, much better than anything you'd be able to get for yourself with normal rules until level 12 or so. You can give him armor, raise his AC to 16 or 17, then add your proficiency on top of that for an animal companion that will make the fighter cry. Just being able to move this big meatball of stats around and have him get OAs and block chokepoints is by itself really valuable.

Not any particularly cool abilities like a burrow speed, but still very cool.

Gloomstalker's advantages compared to BM in this case are mostly going to come down to out of combat utility and... well, how much your DM would let you do with the owlbear without it being your animal companion.

As for the ASI, I would personally favor Strength or Wisdom, depending on what your stats look like. If you must pick a feat, pick something that adds utility to the group so they don't lynch your blatantly overpowered character :smalltongue:

[Master O'Laughs]

The problem is, this is an optimization forum and you're not asking a question related to optimization. The only person who can answer which seems more fun is you.

But as for optimization...

Yeah, beastmaster is better here. I don't think the owlbear gets its multiattack, but 2d8+5+prof is still a really heavy hitting attack. Its HP is stupidly high, much better than anything you'd be able to get for yourself with normal rules until level 12 or so. You can give him armor, raise his AC to 16 or 17, then add your proficiency on top of that for an animal companion that will make the fighter cry. Just being able to move this big meatball of stats around and have him get OAs and block chokepoints is by itself really valuable.

Not any particularly cool abilities like a burrow speed, but still very cool.

Gloomstalker's advantages compared to BM in this case are mostly going to come down to out of combat utility and... well, how much your DM would let you do with the owlbear without it being your animal companion.

As for the ASI, I would personally favor Strength or Wisdom, depending on what your stats look like. If you must pick a feat, pick something that adds utility to the group so they don't lynch your blatantly overpowered character :smalltongue:

That is actually a great answer to hear. I was worried BM may be under-powered. This actually entices me to lean towards it more because the Owlbear is really fun.

STR and WIS are both 16 right now.

I had picked druidic warrior for my fighting style to get control flames (turn out the lights as a gloom stalker). Would there be a better fighting style to pick [blind fighting or archery (14 Dex)]?

[strangebloke]

That is actually a great answer to hear. I was worried BM may be under-powered. This actually entices me to lean towards it more because the Owlbear is really fun.

STR and WIS are both 16 right now.

I had picked druidic warrior for my fighting style to get control flames (turn out the lights as a gloom stalker). Would there be a better fighting style to pick [blind fighting or archery (14 Dex)]?

The big thing to understand about the BM is that it was never that bad, just a bit unintuitive. People compared the beast unfavorably to the paladin mount for example without considering that the beast's attack was actually a considerable damage buff, and that you could use it to control space.

Still a bit weak, but going from a 1/4 CR beast to a 3 CR beast more than evens out the scales.

IMO, grab +2 strength, and follow your heart for the fighting style choice. Druidic warrior isn't bad, I'm a huge fan of using it to pick up guidance which is one of the best cantrips in the game, easily worth -1 damage per attack. The probably 'optimal' option would be dueling with a battleax and shield or something similar. Since you're only going to be able to make one attack a turn, why not tune up your defense. Alternately you could probably argue for TWF to still get to attack twice (though you'll often have use for a bonus action) or Great Weapon fighting to get the most out of your damage. IT's all good.

[Master O'Laughs]

The big thing to understand about the BM is that it was never that bad, just a bit unintuitive. People compared the beast unfavorably to the paladin mount for example without considering that the beast's attack was actually a considerable damage buff, and that you could use it to control space.

Still a bit weak, but going from a 1/4 CR beast to a 3 CR beast more than evens out the scales.

IMO, grab +2 strength, and follow your heart for the fighting style choice. Druidic warrior isn't bad, I'm a huge fan of using it to pick up guidance which is one of the best cantrips in the game, easily worth -1 damage per attack. The probably 'optimal' option would be dueling with a battleax and shield or something similar. Since you're only going to be able to make one attack a turn, why not tune up your defense. Alternately you could probably argue for TWF to still get to attack twice (though you'll often have use for a bonus action) or Great Weapon fighting to get the most out of your damage. IT's all good.

What would be a good Strength half feat to pair with skill expert?

I am thinking it might be fun to get into the grapple game and I am currently not proficient in athletics. The feat would give me expertise and add another half feat I would have an 18 Str @ lvl 8.

[strangebloke]

What would be a good Strength half feat to pair with skill expert?

I am thinking it might be fun to get into the grapple game and I am currently not proficient in athletics. The feat would give me expertise and add another half feat I would have an 18 Str @ lvl 8.

its not bad. Not what I'd go for personally, but its hard to argue there's anything wrong with diversifying skills.

[Unoriginal]

You could maybe ask your DM if the Owlbear could become a Warrior Sidekick instead.


The problem is, this is an optimization forum

I strongly disagree with that assertion. This is a 5e forum, not a 5e optimization forum.

[strangebloke]

I strongly disagree with that assertion. This is a 5e forum, not a 5e optimization forum.

either way, "which will be more fun" isn't a question we can really answer except in extreme cases. I guess its more accurate to say that all discussions online trend more to optimization.

[Kane0]

You could maybe ask your DM if the Owlbear could become a Warrior Sidekick instead.


I would also ask this question. Or if they would consider some of the functions of the Tasha's spirit companions like being able revive it and such.

An Owlbear beast companion on a Beastmaster sounds fun to me either way though, you could even use it as a mount.

[Master O'Laughs]

its not bad. Not what I'd go for personally, but its hard to argue there's anything wrong with diversifying skills.

Would you be more down the max Str route? or possibly +2 STR and then mounted combatant if I use the owlbear as a mount?

EDIT: Another thought is Dual Wielder to gain +1 AC. I would likely then witch my fighting style to Two Weapon Fighting @ lvl 4. And then pair that with either +2 STR, Mounted combatant, or sentinel (?). IT also begs the question of the best use for concentration, Hunter's mark or Beast bond.

[Master O'Laughs]

Another question regarding barding.

At what point is barding worth it?

I gather that for a +1 AC increase from a chain shirt it would cost 200 gold (50x4)
For a +2 AC increase from Breastplate, it would cost 1600 gold (400x4)

Starting AC would be 15 (13+2 prof bonus) and increase to at most 17 from adding prof bonus over the course of the campaign.

Also, both of those options would preserve not having disadvantage on its stealth checks. If I were to ignore that, I could go Chainmail for 300 gp or scale mail for 800 gp.

[strangebloke]

Would you be more down the max Str route? or possibly +2 STR and then mounted combatant if I use the owlbear as a mount?

EDIT: Another thought is Dual Wielder to gain +1 AC. I would likely then witch my fighting style to Two Weapon Fighting @ lvl 4. And then pair that with either +2 STR, Mounted combatant, or sentinel (?). IT also begs the question of the best use for concentration, Hunter's mark or Beast bond.
okay, in order

Max STR is always worth it if you're attacking with STR, though you're only attacking once a turn probably.
Mounted Combatant is very strong and unique but you sometimes won't be able to use it, and only you can decide if that's likely or not.
Dual Wielder is... fine? But its basically impossible to use with Hunter's mark.
With that said, HM isn't that good here, so don't worry about its lack of synergy with DW. HM won't benefit your Owlbear, so you only benefit from it once per round. Advantage on that massive owlbear swing is way better than getting +1d6 damage a turn.
Sentinel is better with a reach weapon for obvious reasons, and for that reason I don't think it combines well with dual wielder (unless one of your hands is holding a whip. Very flavorful!)


Bear in mind here (heh) that you do have access to relatively unique options like a lance while you're mounted. Lance and shield with dueling while mounted is a potent combo.

Another question regarding barding.

At what point is barding worth it?

I gather that for a +1 AC increase from a chain shirt it would cost 200 gold (50x4)
For a +2 AC increase from Breastplate, it would cost 1600 gold (400x4)

Starting AC would be 15 (13+2 prof bonus) and increase to at most 17 from adding prof bonus over the course of the campaign.

Also, both of those options would preserve not having disadvantage on its stealth checks. If I were to ignore that, I could go Chainmail for 300 gp or scale mail for 800 gp.

Depends on how much money you have. In general I'd argue its worth spending a good deal, but in this case I think the 'cheap' option of chain shirt barding (200 gp for 16 AC) and later on splint mail (800 gp for 19+ AC). Keep both sets, change it out depending on the situation.

[Master O'Laughs]

okay, in order

Max STR is always worth it if you're attacking with STR, though you're only attacking once a turn probably.
Mounted Combatant is very strong and unique but you sometimes won't be able to use it, and only you can decide if that's likely or not.
Dual Wielder is... fine? But its basically impossible to use with Hunter's mark.
With that said, HM isn't that good here, so don't worry about its lack of synergy with DW. HM won't benefit your Owlbear, so you only benefit from it once per round. Advantage on that massive owlbear swing is way better than getting +1d6 damage a turn.
Sentinel is better with a reach weapon for obvious reasons, and for that reason I don't think it combines well with dual wielder (unless one of your hands is holding a whip. Very flavorful!)


Bear in mind here (heh) that you do have access to relatively unique options like a lance while you're mounted. Lance and shield with dueling while mounted is a potent combo.


Depends on how much money you have. In general I'd argue its worth spending a good deal, but in this case I think the 'cheap' option of chain shirt barding (200 gp for 16 AC) and later on splint mail (800 gp for 19+ AC). Keep both sets, change it out depending on the situation.

Thank you for the thorough answer!

it sounds like L4, is likely a standard +2 STR for the boost to hit and damage. L8 will then depend on how things play out.

Also, sounds like beast bond is the go to spell for advantage purposes. I could see entangling strike have its uses to lock down a particular foe of interest to focus fire. I also think cure wounds may be something to tech in to heal the owlbear in emergencies and not have to rely on the cleric or druid to do so.

[strangebloke]

Thank you for the thorough answer!

it sounds like L4, is likely a standard +2 STR for the boost to hit and damage. L8 will then depend on how things play out.

Also, sounds like beast bond is the go to spell for advantage purposes. I could see entangling strike have its uses to lock down a particular foe of interest to focus fire. I also think cure wounds may be something to tech in to heal the owlbear in emergencies and not have to rely on the cleric or druid to do so.

Ensnaring strike is really good yeah.

Bear in mind that if you mount your owlbear you can make them do stuff according to the mount rules, which is really useful for your purposes.

[Master O'Laughs]

Ensnaring strike is really good yeah.

Bear in mind that if you mount your owlbear you can make them do stuff according to the mount rules, which is really useful for your purposes.

Having never really done mounted combat, are you referring to the animal companion mount having the ability to dash without requiring my action commanding it to do so? Allowing me to close the distance faster, but then being unable to attack, but I still have my action to attack?

Also, If I lean into the mounted combat angle, would getting mounted combatant be the best feat I could take or do you think the Owlbear may have enough HP to not need me shielding it from attacks?

I know the other benefits are helping it avoid Dex Save AoEs and gaining advantage against medium and smaller enemies.

[strangebloke]

Having never really done mounted combat, are you referring to the animal companion mount having the ability to dash without requiring my action commanding it to do so? Allowing me to close the distance faster, but then being unable to attack, but I still have my action to attack?

Also, If I lean into the mounted combat angle, would getting mounted combatant be the best feat I could take or do you think the Owlbear may have enough HP to not need me shielding it from attacks?

I know the other benefits are helping it avoid Dex Save AoEs and gaining advantage against medium and smaller enemies.

So this is the thing. The Animal Companion acts on your turn, which is why you can use your action to make it attack (and then attack yourself)

Mounts though, act on your initiative, which means they act before or after your turn (your choice) So this is a fuzzy area and ultimately depends on how your DM wants to rule it, but generally there are two ways to run it. Either you get to choose on your turn which to use "controlled or 'uncontrolled'" mount rules, or you're locked into one or the other at the DM's discretion. Personally I favor the former.

The BM rules obviously are better when you're in melee since your guy can attack, but the mounted rules are better for getting in, because you get to dash for 'free.' and then make your own attacks.