Raulothim's Psychic Lance - ghosts and golems beware?

[Boci]

So a player of mine asked if they could take Raulothim's Psychic Lance on their warlock. I said yes, but only if the interaction with knowing the creature's name was removed. Now that we've had a few sessions with it, it seems decent, creatures tend not to have the best intelligence save. I considered further nerfing it, because no creatures seems to be immune incapacitated. But it does nothing on a successful save, and its only for 1 round, so I think that is unnecessary, especially after my initial nerf.

But just checking I understand, the only way to be immune to this spell is to be immune to psychic damage right? Ghost and golems are both subject to the damage and the incapacitation?

[Joe the Rat]

That pretty well covers it. You'll have to dig, but the only place I've seen psychic immunity is in Far Realms types.

That makes a decent emergency defense for Warlocks against Helmed Horrors. Unless you make that one of their spell immunities.

[chiefwaha]

I don't think being immune to psychic would prevent the incapacitated condition if they fail their save. Both effects happen on a failed save, it doesn't say the psychic damage is required for the condition to take hold. I mean this is a 4th level save or suck single target spell, it should do something if they fail.

At the very least, make sure the player knows before hand that psychic immunity will make the creature immune to this spell.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The closest thing to an answer that I could find was a Crawford tweet (https://www.sageadvice.eu/if-a-creature-is-immune-to-psychic-damage-does-vicious-mockery-still-impose-disadvantage/) from 2016 (so it should be counted as an official ruling) regarding using vicious mockery on a flesh golem.

TL;DR the rider effect doesn't rely on inflicting damage, but on whether or not the monster succeeds on the save.

[Boci]

The closest thing to an answer that I could find was a Crawford tweet (https://www.sageadvice.eu/if-a-creature-is-immune-to-psychic-damage-does-vicious-mockery-still-impose-disadvantage/) from 2016 (so it should be counted as an official ruling) regarding using vicious mockery on a flesh golem.

TL;DR the rider effect doesn't rely on inflicting damage, but on whether or not the monster succeeds on the save.

That seems, counter intuitive to me. Psychic damage is abstract enough that I can't definitively say its wrong, but it feels off, but what about Frostbite? You're telling me a creature immune to cold will still need to make a saving throw, taking no damage on a failed save but disadvantage on their next weapon attack, from the cold they are immune to?

I mean, sure I'll tell the player which interpretation I'm using, but I suspect this won't come as a surprise to them, as they would already assume it wouldn't work on psychic immune enemies.

[RogueJK]

You'll have to dig, but the only place I've seen psychic immunity is in Far Realms types.


There are a large number of Golems and other Constructs who are immune to Psychic damage. (Which makes sense, considering they're basically magically animated objects, so don't have a brain/soul/emotions to affect.)

Beyond that, there are a few Far Realms types like the various Star Spawns, and occasional others like the Coatl, Soul Monger, Demilich, and the various Sphinxes.

[IsaacsAlterEgo]

That seems, counter intuitive to me. Psychic damage is abstract enough that I can't definitively say its wrong, but it feels off, but what about Frostbite? You're telling me a creature immune to cold will still need to make a saving throw, taking no damage on a failed save but disadvantage on their next weapon attack, from the cold they are immune to?.

You can easily just take this as the creature partially freezing over and thus, having a harder time attacking, even if they are personally immune to the damaging effects of partially freezing over. Even an ice elemental isn't immune to having more ice piled on top of it to slow it down.

[Boci]

You can easily just take this as the creature partially freezing over and thus, having a harder time attacking, even if they are personally immune to the damaging effects of partially freezing over. Even an ice elemental isn't immune to having more ice piled on top of it to slow it down.

That could work. Sure Frostbite is a bad name then, but its just a name. I'd have to look over what other X damage and Y conditions spells there are, to see if others can be fluffed similarly.

In the meantime I'll let my player know psychic immune enemies might be immune to the incapacitation effect, see what they thing of that. I feel they may expect that, but we can talk about it together.