Circle of Seeking: Archer Druid

[sandmote]

This page on the homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/0fO74x1P1a5o)

The following is a druid subclass based on the 4e Seeker class. Since the Arcane Archer has a variant of Inevitable Shot, so I've focused on the character having attacks with a range like their weapon, but which have some control or otherwise debuffing ability.


Circle Spells
Druids of the circle of seeking train with the use of close range spells, and pass on a special technique for targeting creatures at larger distances with such spells. As part of this training, you learn special spellcasting techniques.

Once you gain access to one of these spells, you always have it prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you can prepare each day. If you gain access to a spell that doesn’t appear on the druid spell list, the spell is nonetheless a druid spell for you.

Circle of Spirit Guidance Spells
Level Spell
3rd Fungal Infestation*, Mind Shaking Touch*
5th Bestow Curse, Tying Brand*
7th Agonizing Resonance*, Phantasmal Killer Grasping Vine
9th Open the Mind*, Tree Stride

Spells marked with an asterisk can be found here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?635715-Touch-Spells-for-Close-Range-Casters). There's also a cantrip that works with the Arrow's Touch class feature there, to cover my bases.


Bonus Proficiencies
You gain proficiency with simple and martial weapons.

Arrow's Touch
When you choose this archetype at 2nd level, you learn special techniques for targeting creatures with your spells. When you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack, you can cast a spell targeting that creature as a bonus action. The spell must have a range of touch and a casting time of no longer than one action. You can cast the spell as if the creature is within your reach, no matter the distance between you, although the target gains any benefits of cover or obscurement as normal.

Messes with your action economy to avoid being broken. The action economy is reversed compared to the Eldritch Knight, as I expect fewer attacks to get though. Similarly, this limits the effect to single target spells anyway, so it wouldn't give the same ability to deal with large mobs as reversing how the eldritch knight works. Although I' not sure that allowing the Eldritch knight to cast as a bonus action after using their action to attack would break anything too badly either.


Extra Attack
Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack you can push it up to 5 feet in any direction.You can push the target closer to you or sideways as part of this movement, rather than away from you, and you can change the direction you push it partway through the push.


Binding Snare
At 10th level you learn to channel spiritual power into your ammunition, sending your targets flying with ranged strikes before binding them together. On a hit with a ranged weapon, you shove the target in any direction you choose. You can shove the target up to 30 feet, changing its direction as you do so. On a hit, you can push the target up to 30 feet. You can push the target closer to you or sideways as part of this movement, rather than away from you, and you can change the direction you push it partway through the push. At the end of the movement, the target is restrained. While the target is next to another creature, you can expend 5 feet of the shove to force the second target to make a Dexterity saving throw against you spell save DC. On a failed save the first creature stops moving and both creatures are restrained. On a success the first creature stops moving and the second creature is not restrained.

A restrained creature can make a Strength or Dexterity check against your spell save DC as an action. On a success the effect ends on that creature, but it cannot move more than 5 feet away from another creature restrained by this feature until both are free.

You can use this feature to teleport targets a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

Giving greater control. As with the pervious 10th and 14th level features, I want to avoid both refreshing on a short rest or both refreshing on a long rest.


Corralling Shot
By 14th level, you have learned to corral your targets with your arrows. When you shove a creature using your circle of seeking features, the distance you shove the creature increases by 10 feet. You can shove the target in different directions, such as around a corners, as part of this movement.

Intended to apply both to the Extra Attack+ and Biding Shot.


Jumping Shot
At 14th level, your connection to primal forces allows you to teleport your targets together. When you hit two different creatures with a ranged weapon attack on your turn, you can tie their position together and teleport your targets to each other's positions as a bonus action. Each creature must make a Wisdom save against your spell save DC or be stunned until the start of your next turn. If either creature is immune to teleportation or there is not space for one creature in the other creature's location, the teleport fails and they automatically succeed on their saving throw.

You can use this feature once, and regain the ability to use it at the end of a short or long rest.

Now works with "sliding" creatures on the same turn, and added a stun so the effect lasts.


Mire of Arrows
At 10th level, you learn to create a barrier of ammunition raining down around your foes. When you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack, you can form such a barrier as a bonus action. While you concentrate on the barrier (as if concentrating on a spell), shaped as a 10-foot-radius, 40-foot-high cylinder centered on the creature you hit. The base of the cylinder is rough terrain and you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn. You can use this special reaction only to make a ranged weapon attack against a creature that enters or starts its turn in the barrier, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction.

You can use this feature once, and regain the ability to use it until the end of a short or long rest.

Based on the Ensnaring Shot power. Uses the Cavalier's rules for extra attacks, but I expect it to be easier to avoid the damage so I'm giving it at a lower level. Hopefully doesn't step on the Hunter Ranger's toes too much?


Jumping Shot
By 14th level, you have learned to tie the positions of your ammunition together and teleport your targets between them. When you hit two different creatures with ranged weapon attacks on the same turn, you can use a bonus action to teleport the two creatures into each other's positions. If either creature is immune to teleportation or there is not space for one creature in the other creature's location, the teleport fails.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

I was going to make this and Mire of Arrows both on a short rest, then got worried about parties with short adventuring days. On the other hand this is a full caster class, so that might be unnecessary? Anyway, this is based on Feyjump Shot, that one power that's useful and unique enough to basically define the Seeker class.

[Nuptup]

First and foremost, I want to clarify that I am not a caster player in any way. HOWEVER, this is such an awesome idea that it is making me want to change that! I LOVE this concept and would absolutely rock it. Great work!

[Saelethil]

Overall I really like it. My only thought is that level 6 feels a little weak? Bladesingers get to use one of their attacks for a cantrip which I don't think would fit this subclass and you probably don't want to just copy the bladesinger anyway. You do get the bonus action spell earlier and the bards with extra attack don't get anything additional at 6th so balance wise you don't really need to add anything. I might suggest something defensive though, maybe they could add their Wisdom mod. to their AC against 1 attack as a reaction x times per SR? It's not flashy or very powerful but it would feel like something fresh that I could imagine saving the day towards the end of a boss battle when spell slots and HP are low. They also don't get shield (which I agree with) and this would give a little bump in place of that.

[sandmote]

First and foremost, I want to clarify that I am not a caster player in any way. HOWEVER, this is such an awesome idea that it is making me want to change that! I LOVE this concept and would absolutely rock it. Great work! Thanks! Although I'm not really sure why this would be preferable to playing most casters.


Overall I really like it. My only thought is that level 6 feels a little weak? Bladesingers get to use one of their attacks for a cantrip which I don't think would fit this subclass and you probably don't want to just copy the bladesinger anyway. You do get the bonus action spell earlier and the bards with extra attack don't get anything additional at 6th so balance wise you don't really need to add anything. I might suggest something defensive though, maybe they could add their Wisdom mod. to their AC against 1 attack as a reaction x times per SR? It's not flashy or very powerful but it would feel like something fresh that I could imagine saving the day towards the end of a boss battle when spell slots and HP are low. They also don't get shield (which I agree with) and this would give a little bump in place of that. Given that extra attack gives you extra chances to hit and extra chances to hit make it easier to use Arrow's Touch, I'm not sure about that. Similarly, while I like your idea mechanically, I don't think it fits the seeker class this idea is based on.

I might be more willing to knock off the bladesinger and a shove effect, like that seeker At-Will from Dragon#413:


Extra Attack
Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature you can push it up to 5 feet in any direction.

Or instead, leave Extra Attack as it is and require a shared resource for your suggestion:


Guarding Shape
By 6th level, you've learned to reform your body using the same techniques you use to reach out and touch spells through your weapons. When you are hit by an attack, you can expend a se of your wild shape to reform your body away from the blow. You gain a bonus to AC against the attack equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of +1), potentially causing a hit to turn into a miss.

[Saelethil]

Given that extra attack gives you extra chances to hit and extra chances to hit make it easier to use Arrow's Touch, I'm not sure about that. Similarly, while I like your idea mechanically, I don't think it fits the seeker class this idea is based on.

I might be more willing to knock off the bladesinger and a shove effect, like that seeker At-Will from Dragon#413:


Extra Attack
Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature you can push it up to 5 feet in any direction.

Or instead, leave Extra Attack as it is and require a shared resource for your suggestion:


Guarding Shape
By 6th level, you've learned to reform your body using the same techniques you use to reach out and touch spells through your weapons. When you are hit by an attack, you can expend a use of your wild shape to reform your body away from the blow. You gain a bonus to AC against the attack equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of +1), potentially causing a hit to turn into a miss.

Well, I'm not familiar with 4e and I don't know the Seeker class so I can't speak thematically. I really like your first suggestion (I'm a sucker for at at-will abilities) but a use of Wildshape seems like a steep price for up to +5 against 1 attack. Would you be open to letting it last until the start of your next turn like shield or granting resistance to the attack's damage?

[sandmote]

I really like your first suggestion (I'm a sucker for at at-will abilities) but a use of Wildshape seems like a steep price for up to +5 against 1 attack. Would you be open to letting it last until the start of your next turn like shield or granting resistance to the attack's damage? If the first one works its probably better to just add it, and leave the AC boost for some other homebrew.

Edit: and done.

[Twelvetrees]

Looking back through the 4e Seeker, I'm expecting this subclass to emphasize bow or throwing weapon use, hindering enemies' ability to move, sliding/pushing foes, and plinking for small amounts of damage to encourage their enemies not to take certain actions. The original Seeker also favored poison damage, but I'm not expecting that to carry through, given that it's not as useful in 5e. Their utility powers also concentrated more heavily on mobility, so I think that could make sense as well.

Let's see how this compares.


Circle Spells
Melee spells were a surprise, but they do slow or otherwise hinder enemies, which makes sense. I'm not quite sure I understand the inclusion of Phantasmal Killer, but Tree Stride makes sense.

I will note that everything but Tree Stride is purely a combat spell. I'm expecting the other features will lean more on the utility side to balance this out.


Bonus Proficiencies
There's the ability to use bows and thrown weapons. Check.


Arrow's Touch
Oh, now this is interesting. That's a fascinating way to turn all your melee spells into ranged ones. I like this a lot, especially paired with the new spells.

It's also exactly the sort of feature I wish we got out of the Arcane Archer, but that's a gripe for another day.


Extra Attack
Fairly standard, but we get a little rider in homage to the sliding abilities from 4e. Okay. I'm a little leery of this, but given the existence of the Bladesinger, it's probably fine.


Mire of Arrows
This feels unwieldy and it's harder for me to see the through line from the 4e Seeker here, even with the explanation that it's supposed to resemble Ensnaring Shot. I think I'd honestly prefer to see something closer to Corralling Shot or Binding Shot, both because it would be easier to parse and because I'm not seeing as much of the sliding abilities of the 4e Seeker as I would have expected.


Jumping Shot
I can see Feyjump Shot in this feature, but I'm not sure it works as well here as it did in 4e. You've got a greater chance to miss because you're relying on a secondary ability for accuracy and even if you hit with both attacks, you don't get the dazing effect you got in 4e. You also lack the option to just teleport both targets 15 feet instead of swapping their positions.

It's more circumstantial than I would have expected for a capstone ability of a subclass. My suggestion would be to add back the ability to teleport the creatures without swapping their positions.

I do like the number of uses being based on Wisdom modifier.



Spelling, phrasing, and other pedantry


...Druids of the circle of seeking train wiith the...

Emphasis mine.


...and tunnel your targets...

This confused me. It sounded like they were going underground. Perhaps you could state the obvious and go with something like "...allowing you to swap/teleport your foes around the battlefield..."

[sandmote]

I'm not quite sure I understand the inclusion of Phantasmal Killer, but Tree Stride makes sense. Would grasping vine fit better?


I will note that everything but Tree Stride is purely a combat spell. I'm expecting the other features will lean more on the utility side to balance this out. I think part of the problem is this is based on 4e, so I don't have a lot of good non-combat options in the original version. Even the Utility powers are mostly combat related (and feywild jaunt, which doesn't particularly fit what I'm taking over into 5e here, is the only one I've heard anything good about).


Mire of Arrows
This feels unwieldy and it's harder for me to see the through line from the 4e Seeker here, even with the explanation that it's supposed to resemble Ensnaring Shot. I think I'd honestly prefer to see something closer to Corralling Shot or Binding Shot, both because it would be easier to parse and because I'm not seeing as much of the sliding abilities of the 4e Seeker as I would have expected.

Jumping Shot
I can see Feyjump Shot in this feature, but I'm not sure it works as well here as it did in 4e. You've got a greater chance to miss because you're relying on a secondary ability for accuracy and even if you hit with both attacks, you don't get the dazing effect you got in 4e. You also lack the option to just teleport both targets 15 feet instead of swapping their positions.

It's more circumstantial than I would have expected for a capstone ability of a subclass. My suggestion would be to add back the ability to teleport the creatures without swapping their positions. I think part of the problem is that I wanted these as riders. Maybe make Mire of Arrows purely a action to set up (removing the "on a hit effect").


Mire of Arrows
At 10th level, you learn to create a barrier of ammunition raining down around your foes. As an action you can select an area shaped as a 10-foot-radius, 40-foot-high cylinder within 60 feet. The base of the cylinder becomes rough terrain and you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn for as long as you maintain concentration (as if concentrating on a spell). You can use this special reaction only to make a ranged weapon attack against a creature that enters or starts its turn in the barrier, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction.

You can use this feature once, and regain the ability to use it until the end of a short or long rest.

Now its sort of like a spell? I suppose that's going to be fairly common for a lot of 4e powers.


Jumping Shot
By 14th level, you have learned to corral your targets with your arrows. When you shove a creature using your ranged attacks, the distance you shove the creature increases to 15 feet. You can shove the target in different direction, such as around a corner, as part of this movement.

When you hit two different creatures with a ranged weapon attack on your turn, you can forego corralling them to instead tie their position together and teleport your targets to each other's positions (no action required by you) and each creature must make a Wisdom save against your spell save DC or be stunned until the start of your next turn. If either creature is immune to teleportation or there is not space for one creature in the other creature's location, the teleport fails and they automatically succeed on their saving throw.

You can use this feature to teleport targets a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

Added the stun back in, and upgraded the 5th level feature. Is it clear the limited uses only applies to the latter? Should I break the shove effect into a separate feature? Could be called "superior shove" or something. Although it is also intended to be slightly weaker than in 4e because in 4e it was a little nuts. Seems like you could break a lot of encounters in half with it, and the analysis from others I've read fits that. Personally I have more of a problem with "it'll break encounters in half a bunch" than abilities that would break the campaign in half, because I can actually justify asking "that destroys the planned events for the campaign, so can we retcon it," where the encounters are just boring now. But that's probably a rant for a different thread.

Anyway, if these are still a mess I can try converting corralling shot or binding shot. Corralling shot would probably need to be an at will though...


Binding Snare
On a hit with a ranged weapon, you shove the target in any direction you choose. You can shove the target up to 30 feet, changing its direction as you do so. At the end of the movement, the target is restrained. While the target is next to another creature, you can expend 5 feet of the shove to force the second target to make a Dexterity saving throw against you spell save DC. On a failed save the first creature stops moving and both creatures are restrained. On a success the first creature stops moving and the second creature is not restrained.

A restrained creature can make a Strength or Dexterity check against your spell save DC as an action. On a success the effect ends on that creature, but it cannot move more than 5 feet away from a another creature restrained by this feature until both are free.

Not sure how to frame the limit on the effect though. Wis mod times a long rest, probably.


Spelling, phrasing, and other pedantry Thanks for the catches.

[Twelvetrees]

Would grasping vine fit better?

Yep. :smallsmile:


I think part of the problem is this is based on 4e, so I don't have a lot of good non-combat options in the original version. Even the Utility powers are mostly combat related (and feywild jaunt, which doesn't particularly fit what I'm taking over into 5e here, is the only one I've heard anything good about).

You're not wrong. I'd be curious to hear where you've found reviews of 4e material - I'm aware of very few sources nowadays.

Some potential suggestions for powers that could be converted: Nature's Passage, Burrowing Stride. You could also take inspiration from the Crimson Hunter paragon path and its Crimson Hunter's Action feature and add a feature that enables casting Longstrider more often.

I'm a huge fan of the imagery of Host of Sparrows, but it does lean towards combat usage. Maybe a variation on Wild Shape?


Added the stun back in, and upgraded the 5th level feature. Is it clear the limited uses only applies to the latter? Should I break the shove effect into a separate feature? Could be called "superior shove" or something.

Breaking it up into another feature would make it more clear, yes.


Binding Snare

I'm biased because I suggested this in the first place, but I really do prefer this. It's easier to understand and more evocative.

If you end up sticking with Mire of Arrows and Jumping Shot, I'm more than happy to run a few variations on their wording by you.

[sandmote]

The commentary for the seeker I've found is mostly this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/to-strive-to-seek-to-find-and-not-to-yield-the-seekers-handbook-by-wecontact.469092/) cambat guide, although I don't agree with everything and I have read a little bit of other commentary on some of the other features.


If you end up sticking with Mire of Arrows and Jumping Shot, I'm more than happy to run a few variations on their wording by you. Okay, planning to use the following for now. Please note I've switched Jumping Shot to be based on a short rest: Binding Snare feels like it's more worth spamming anyway and I don't want both high level features to refresh in the same manner (mostly to avoid balance issues with short or long adventuring days).


Binding Snare
On a hit with a ranged weapon, you shove the target in any direction you choose. You can shove the target up to 30 feet, changing its direction as you do so. At the end of the movement, the target is restrained. While the target is next to another creature, you can expend 5 feet of the shove to force the second target to make a Dexterity saving throw against you spell save DC. On a failed save the first creature stops moving and both creatures are restrained. On a success the first creature stops moving and the second creature is not restrained.

A restrained creature can make a Strength or Dexterity check against your spell save DC as an action. On a success the effect ends on that creature, but it cannot move more than 5 feet away from another creature restrained by this feature until both are free.

You can use this feature to teleport targets a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

Corralling Shot
By 14th level, you have learned to corral your targets with your arrows. When you shove a creature using your ranged attacks, the distance you shove the creature increases to 15 feet. You can shove the target in different direction, such as around a corner, as part of this movement.

Jumping Shot
At 14th level, your connection to primal forces allows you to teleport your targets together. When you hit two different creatures with a ranged weapon attack on your turn, you can forego corralling them to instead tie their position together and teleport your targets to each other's positions (no action required by you) and each creature must make a Wisdom save against your spell save DC or be stunned until the start of your next turn. If either creature is immune to teleportation or there is not space for one creature in the other creature's location, the teleport fails and they automatically succeed on their saving throw.

You can use this feature once, and regain the ability to use it until the end of a short or long rest.

Crimson Hunter's action also reminds me of how the bloodbond seeker can shift as a minor action, so it might be a good alternative though.

[Twelvetrees]

The commentary for the seeker I've found is mostly this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/to-strive-to-seek-to-find-and-not-to-yield-the-seekers-handbook-by-wecontact.469092/) cambat guide, although I don't agree with everything and I have read a little bit of other commentary on some of the other features.

Thanks!



Binding Snare

You can use this feature to teleport targets a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

Minor wording quibble. I quite like this feature. At what level is it supposed to be attained?



Corralling Shot
By 14th level, you have learned to corral your targets with your arrows. When you shove a creature using your ranged attacks, the distance you shove the creature increases to 15 feet. You can shove the target in different direction, such as around a corner, as part of this movement.

If this is meant to only work with the push from Extra Attack, you may be better served by calling that out directly. Something like "When you push a creature using Extra Attack, the distance..."

There's some potential for confusion right now with readers thinking it applies to Binding Snare. This would also remove the reading where a character could dip two levels of warlock and grab Repelling Blast and suddenly apply this feature to eldritch blast.



Jumping Shot
When you hit two different creatures with a ranged weapon attack on your turn, you can forego corralling them...

Are you meant to be able to corral more than one target on a turn?



Jumping Shot
You can use this feature once, and regain the ability to use it until at the end of a short or long rest.

Wording suggestion.



All that aside, I've got a much better idea now of how you're pulling 4e Seeker features forward into 5e and can see the resemblance.

[sandmote]

Minor wording quibble. I quite like this feature. At what level is it supposed to be attained?
...

There's some potential for confusion right now with readers thinking it applies to Binding Snare. This would also remove the reading where a character could dip two levels of warlock and grab Repelling Blast and suddenly apply this feature to eldritch blast.

Are you meant to be able to corral more than one target on a turn? Okay, I have added updated versions to my first post in the this thread. Binding Snare was meant for 10th level, thanks for the catch.

I only intended Corralling Shot to apply to Extra Attack, but the new version also allows it to apply to Binding Snare. I actually wouldn't mind applying it to Eldritch blast either; it'd be interesting to have a warlock/druid multiclass that still manages some synergy.

To avoid confusion with corralling vs Jumping Shot, I have removed the (attempted) limit against doing both on the same turn. I have made Jumping Shot require a bonus action again though, because it does still feel powerful and I don't want Jumping Shot, Moving Enemies, and Arrow's Touch going off on the same turn.

[Twelvetrees]

Looks good to me! :smallsmile:

One pedantic note. You're still using the "teleport" language here (bold emphasis mine):


Binding Snare
You can use this feature to teleport targets a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses at the end of a long rest.

[sandmote]

One pedantic note. You're still using the "teleport" language here (bold emphasis mine): Darn it.

Looks good to me! :smallsmile: Thanks for all the help!

[luuma]

This looks really solid! Lovely stuff.

I think Extra Attack was already gonna be alright at 6th and I don't think it'll really need the bladesinger's benefits. Extra Attack is already very good with wild shape. But either way, the shove effect is really sweet, and definitely does the trick.

I like Arrow's touch, but it really relies on the DM to allow all of those homebrew spells with it - the only other spell that works with it is Contagion. I think if the subclass got a few of the ranger's attack buffs (hail of thorns, ensnaring strike, magic weapon, lightning arrow) it'd still do just great, while maintaining the flavour of an archer. It might be worth adding a separate optional spell list just for cagey DMs?

Would reword the 10th level feature as follows:



You can shove the target up to 30 feet in any direction along the ground (is this the intent??). At the end of the movement, the target is restrained. If the target collides with another creature as part of this movement, the movement ends, and the creature it collided with must also succeed on a Dexterity saving throw against you spell save DC or be restrained.

While a creature is restrained by this effect, the other target can't move more than 5 feet away from it. A creature restrained by this effect can use its action to make a Strength or Dexterity check against your spell save DC, ending the effect on a success

[sandmote]

I like Arrow's touch, but it really relies on the DM to allow all of those homebrew spells with it - the only other spell that works with it is Contagion. I think if the subclass got a few of the ranger's attack buffs (hail of thorns, ensnaring strike, magic weapon, lightning arrow) it'd still do just great, while maintaining the flavour of an archer. It might be worth adding a separate optional spell list just for cagey DMs? Hmm. I hope it isn't necessary, but I guess the following would work if the DM won't allow additional spells to work with Arrow's Touch? Note to make up the power loss I have included 1st level circle spells, which druids don't normally get.

Circle of Spirit Guidance Spells
Level Spell
2nd Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns
3rd Magic Weapon, Spike Growth
5th Bestow Curse, Lightning Arrow
7th Phantasmal Killer Grasping Vine
9th Contagion, Tree Stride


Would reword the 10th level feature as follows: That was the intent, but I didn't feel it was necessary? Maybe say its "slides" along the ground or along things that can support the creature's weight? I don't want to make the feature useless if the target isn't standing on the ground. Perhaps specify "any direction except up?"

[luuma]

Hmm. I hope it isn't necessary, but I guess the following would work if the DM won't allow additional spells to work with Arrow's Touch? Note to make up the power loss I have included 1st level circle spells, which druids don't normally get.

Circle of Spirit Guidance Spells
Level Spell
2nd Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns
3rd Magic Weapon, Spike Growth
5th Bestow Curse, Lightning Arrow
7th Phantasmal Killer Grasping Vine
9th Contagion, Tree Stride



Looks fab! I think that's worth including, because it means you can now play the subclass without needing to add 5 new spells into the game.



ground or along things that can support the creature's weight?

In 5e, "ground" means just that - it's used in the effects of Grease, Entangle, etc. They can be cast on any sort of floor

[sandmote]

In 5e, "ground" means just that - it's used in the effects of Grease, Entangle, etc. They can be cast on any sort of floor Sorry; I had a brain fart when trying to pose my concern. I would still like the effect to be capable of shoving a creature submerged in liquid (ex: underwater), without them needing to be on the ground.
What about the following?


You shove the creature XX feet. When you shove the creature in this manner, you can shove the creature through any space it would be able to enter if it were expending movement, even if the direction it is being shoved is not directly away from you.

Or is that too complicated?

[luuma]

Sorry; I had a brain fart when trying to pose my concern. I would still like the effect to be capable of shoving a creature submerged in liquid (ex: underwater), without them needing to be on the ground.
What about the following?


You shove the creature XX feet. When you shove the creature in this manner, you can shove the creature through any space it would be able to enter if it were expending movement, even if the direction it is being shoved is not directly away from you.

Or is that too complicated?

Ah, gotcha. How's about


You shove the creature XX feet in any direction. If the target is on the ground, you can't shove it into midair.