3.5 Beginner advice

[Littlemike137]

So, I’ve been playing 5e for a few years, but recently our DM decided he wanted to run a campaign in 3.5. Since we’ve never used the system before, although I believe he has, we are starting at level one, though we will probably level fairly fast. Assuming access to all splatbooks that can be found online, what advice would people give on classes or races which are decently beginner friendly. I’m not opposed to doing the research to be a good wizard, however, so feel free to recommend the more complex stuff too if you believe it would be effective.

[Silly Name]

This is a bit vague: do you have any preferences or ideas already?

As far as "beginner friendly" goes, PHB races can work well if you know what you're building. You probably don't want to be a half-elf (they kinda suck) or a half-orc (unless you want to just beat things up or want to access a orc-only Prestige Class), but the rest of the PHB races are a fair pick that don't require you to go dumpster-diving for the race with the perfect set of skills and ability modifiers and special qualities. Also, keep in mind the Monster Manual has "subraces" for gnomes, elves, dwarves and halflings that you should check out just in case.

Actually, that's the important detail: in 3.5 you need to know what you're building towards, so you can get the prerequisites for your feats and classes as soon as you can. Some things have prereq that are almost automatically fulfilled, others you need to be mindful of - for example, Radiant Servant of Pelor is a prestige class that most Pelor-worshipping clerics will be able to access with almost no effort, while Ur-Priest has requirements that you need to keep in mind. Many classes and feat require you to belong to certain race(s), have ranks in certain skills or already possess certain other feats or abilities. If you have no plans on taking a race-locked option, Human is a perfect beginner race thanks to its extra feat at first level and bonus skill points. If you can use Forgotten Realms material, Strongheart Halflings are Small (a net positive in this edition) and also get the extra feat.

If you want to play a martial, Tome of Battle is an excellent resource: whether you decide to build an initiator or simply snag Stances and Maneuver via the Martial Stance and Martial Study feats, that splat has options that make martials more fun and versatile. You can still get by without and make effective characters that are fun to play, but it's worth considering.

If you want to be a caster, spell selection is probably one of the most important, if not the most important, aspect of building: there's a large difference between a Wizard who picks the best spells she can, and one who only ever casts Evocation damage-based spells. Both are legitimate options depending on play-style, but the first can probably win many encounters on her own.
Cleric is a safe bet for a beginner that nonetheless is willing to engage with some complexity: since they're list casters (they know all the spells on their list and choose what to prepare each day), you have time to learn what's most effective and modify your list of prepared spells. You also have access to the easiest, most straightforward method of reducing metamagic costs through Divine Metamagic, which allows you to spend Turn Undead attempts when preparing spells to reduce metamagic costs.

The most important thing to keep in mind, however, is Balance to the Table: what's overpowered or underpowered is a matter of context. If your friends show up wanting to play Frenzied Berserkers, Swift Ambusher Ranger/Scouts, Knights of the Chalice and Tattooed Monks, you may not want to show up with a highly-optimised Batman Wizard who tramples all over them and solves encounter on his own before initiative is even rolled. And if everyone is going to build highly-optimised casters, you probably will feel underpowered playing a straightforward Rogue into Assassin.
And keep in mind you can play primary casters in low-optimisation groups: as I said above, the character's actual build and playstyle matter more than the potential of the class to be "broken".

Also, talk to your DM about what kind of campaign they had in mind, what their expectations are, etc. If they're planning on having a lot of political intrigue involved, you want to play something with good face skills, and you also should keep in mind their level of system mastery and desired difficulty level: there's nothing quite so disheartening for a DM than realising their players are just steamrolling over all the encounters they prepare.

[Khedrac]

For your first experience with the system the main advice has to be "keep it simple".
- forget all the optimization advice out there - most of it requires decent system mastery to make work, and the bits that don't still require that level of system mastery to recognise (many reallly good options are terrible if you don't know how to use them properly).
- Beyond that the various "class handbooks" are quite good for the simple stuff, but don't worry when you don't know what most of the stuff in the feat section is from - stick to the bits in use.

Personally I strongly advise against any of the system variants for your first time (incarnum, tome of battle, psionics, binding) - they may be great, but learn the basic game before experimenting.

I would also advise not using obscure sources for anyone (except possibly the DM) for feats and spells (and classes) at first - they can be added in through play if people are happy - the extra choice will just make you take longer to decide on things. Eg. start with just PHB, PHB2, and the Complete X books (and Spell Compendium).
Do persuade the DM to use the Magic Item Compendium - a lot of the times are great for new players/characters.

Now on to class selection.
There's a lot of be said for the basic model of fighter-type, cleric-type, wizard-type and rogue-type, though the easiest for the DM to adjust for the lack of is rogue (use fewer traps) - you can often do better with an extra one of the others or a hybrid.

Clerics:
All the optimization advice says cleric shouldn't heal in combat - better to down the opponent that patch up allies, that can be done after the fight. This true up to a point - in both low optimization and low power tables in-combat healing is usually a must, so don't worry about playing it that way until people find the style of play that suits them. Also do not assume that you won't need in-combat healing from the start - you might be right (unlikely) but being wrong kills characters. Don't even think about divine metamagic persist spell on your first cleric - worry about that when you know the system.
(Oh yes, forget Favored Soul - it really is that bad.)

Fighters:
Do not play a fighter unless good at mental arithmetic! (Or at least not poor.) The first fighter-type really should be a two-handed weapon wielder, playing dual wielders takes a lot of system mastery and "sword and board" types usually switch to another type fairly quickly.
Most of the your damage will soon come from power attack, so being able to track and add up all the modifiers to attack and damage you will have is key to playing a fighter effectively (if someone can link the early OotS cartoon about being a better fighter if better a maths it would help), in fact even without power attack you have ot be able to correctly work out all the modifiers to each attack to get anything done.

Wizards:
At level 1 take a light crossbow to have something else to do in combat. Wizards are pretty similar to earlier editions so if you are confident at being able to select spells for the day from your spellook you will be fine. If not consider a Sorceror.
Sorceror:
Spontaneous casting is in many ways "easy-mode" D&D - you just have to get the initial spell selection right. There are two answers to this - the first is a kind DM who will allow you to change spells as everyone learns the system. The second is to play a Beguiler (from PHB2) or a warmage (Complete Arcane) where you don't have to choose the spells. Beguiler is weak in undead heavy campaigns, but it worthwise a great class and covers all the rogue out-of-combat skills.

Rogue:
You cannot cover all of the skills well, so choose a sub-set and specialise.
In-combat learn how sneak attack works and make use you have maximised your tumble skills. Be prepared to retreat if you get hit too much, and make sure the party fighter also undertsands the sneak attack rules to help you get the oppoprtunities you need.

[Fizban]

3.x has a huge range of possible power levels, so if your DM's already familiar with it, you'll need to work with them to be sure if whatever you build is okay- and they should be making sure all the characters are appropriate for using together.

Races aren't complicated: unlike later editions that start to add lots of little daily powers, in 3.x the normal PC races almost never have any. There are some printed later with say, glide that slowly becomes flight at 11th or 12th level, and tons of little this or that things that can be leverages, but there's no reason to stress about it. As long as it's roughly human or halfling shaped and sized and isn't some sort of designated bad guy race (orcs, hobgoblins, basically anything from the underdark, etc), you're fine.

Also unlike 5e, 3.x still runs on a presumption of the standard party: cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard (or as I call the roles: Cleric, meatshield, trapfinder, arcanist). There are alternates and mashups for everything except Cleric really (and if you have a Druid I would advise them be a Cleric instead, and just don't even consider Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman), with the arcanist having the most variety and range of power levels. Thus the arcanist should if anything be the last character made, to match the rest of the party, though since people who want to be spellcasters are usually the most gung-ho, the opposite happens.

As the arcanist, it's hard to go wrong. Your role is having magic that bypasses physical defenses and affects areas/multiple foes. As long as you don't deliberately avoid any such spells, you'll be fine. If you want something that doesn't require spell selection, there's the Warmage (Complete Arcane), but for a bunch of new players I'd actually peg it as possibly being too powerful or "swingy"- though much like the Cleric, that power relies on learning what your spells do so you can use the right spells, so it might start out looking weaker and then suddenly (or never) be huge. You could also be a Warlock, which is very different from 5e: the 3.5 Warlock has a set of invocations that can be used at-will, and that's it. It deals roughly "half" of what most people would expect from a spellcaster using damage spells, but the ability to do all of its tricks forever and ever has some serious tactical implications, if you have a party that doesn't zerg rush straight into danger. But published Warlock support is pretty sparse, leading to an overwhelming focus on just a couple of obvious best choices.

There's also the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer, but I don't actually recommend them as-is. The Beguiler grossly violates class roles and has a spell list which, unlike the Warmage, deliberately covers the glaring weakness it should have with some non-mind-spells, and the Dread Necromancer has a ton of boosts to minionmancy which is not a serious consideration of the game at all, requires bookkeeping of all your minions, and encourages a bloodthirsty pokemon trainer mindset that can cause problems.


Fighters:
Do not play a fighter unless good at mental arithmetic! (Or at least not poor.) The first fighter-type really should be a two-handed weapon wielder, playing dual wielders takes a lot of system mastery and "sowrd and board" type usually switch to another type fairly quickly.
Most of the your damage will soon come from power attack, so being able to track and add up all the modifiers to attack and damage you will have is key to playing a fighter effectively (if someone can link the early OotS cartoon about being a better fighter if better a maths it would help), in fact even without power attack you have ot be able to correctly work out all the modifiers to each attack to get anything done.
Hard disagree. The meatshield is expected to use a shield, and the preponderance of aggro-focused "fighters" with no armor class is why people think armor class doesn't matter (because they dumped it, a self-fulfilling action loop). Power Attack is not a required feat, most of your damage should not come from it, and you don't need to have a bunch of PA (or attack of opportunity) number crunching to play a fighter.

What you do need to do to play the meatshield, is learn the basic combat system, and divest yourself of the idea that because you wield weapons you're a "primary dps." Which mostly comes down to "stand between squishies and bad guys," "bring a bow," and "recognize what foes you shouldn't stand and take a full attack from." Yes, the fighter deals damage. All characters deal damage, because all players like dealing damage. The Fighter's role is to be more accurate and specialized in using weapons, but more importantly, to be a lot tougher by way of armor and shield, which makes cures and combat buffs more efficient.

[pabelfly]

So, I’ve been playing 5e for a few years, but recently our DM decided he wanted to run a campaign in 3.5. Since we’ve never used the system before, although I believe he has, we are starting at level one, though we will probably level fairly fast. Assuming access to all splatbooks that can be found online, what advice would people give on classes or races which are decently beginner friendly. I’m not opposed to doing the research to be a good wizard, however, so feel free to recommend the more complex stuff too if you believe it would be effective.

My suggestions:

Melee: check out Swordsage, Warblade or Crusader (all in Tome of Battle), and stay with that class to level 20. The classes are fairly easy to understand, have distinct flavours, and you have enough options for your character to be interesting and not get bored playing it. They will all do decent damage too.

Archer: Ranger. Again, straight Level 20 build. You have good skill points (so you have stuff to do out of combat), full base attack bonus (so you can make more attacks and hit more often) and some bonus feats to get archery working properly (archery takes a lot of feats). You get spells at level 4 which give you some versatility.

Spellcasting: Sorcerer. You have a lot of spells to choose from, but once you make your choice, you only have to learn what you have decided on. You can pick what spells you want during the day as circumstances change. You can have decent HP if you trade away spell slots.



However, if you have your own character idea you want to try, or you see a class you think would be fun or interesting, we'd be happy to help you make a good character for it. 3.5 is far more flexible than 5e and you can make pretty much whatever you want.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

I'm running a game for newbies right now, actually. Here's what I did:

Avoid prepared spellcasters. Learning all the spells is long, slow, and will involve a lot of tricky rules situation as well as unexpected differences with previous editions. It's also a lot harder to overshadow your teammates if you're not a spellcaster of some sort. And of course many of the later systems (psionics, invocations) are not only easier to learn, they're also more balanced. Remember: the most wildly broken book in 3.5 is the Player's Handbook.
If you insist on being a spellcaster, try being a Warlock instead! Or a Dragonfire Adept! Or a Dragon Shaman with Use Magic Device if all you wanted was a healbot! These classes are all simpler to learn, play, and master!
If those won't do, play a fixed list spontaneous caster. Sorcerer is tricky because your spell selection is so easy to get massively wrong if you don't know all the books and monsters, so I suggest going for Beguiler (a Sorcerer with more skill points and a fixed list with basically all the Enchantment and Illusion spells, along with some Abjuration) or Dread Necromancer (a tougher Sorcerer with more melee power and a big focus on Necromancy and undead) instead. Warmage might require a little bit of metamagic optimization to stay competitive at higher levels, but Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are both solid classes if played straight from level 1 to level 20, even with no effort to optimize them or expand their spell lists to cover their weaknesses.
Optimizing martials is hard in 3.5 - thankfully we have the Tome of Battle! Making normal martials work means learning lots of feats, PrCs and combat maneuver rules. It's much easier for newbies to print out some maneuver cards and play a straightforward Crusader or Warblade. Even if you don't optimize them at all and don't read online handbooks, they're basically the only martial classes that function properly as is. I have a sword and board Crusader in my party who wants to avoid area control (incredibly sup-optimal) but it works well enough through the raw power of maneuvers. And crusader maneuver lists are so small that he can't really pick useless maneuvers like a Sorcerer could pick a useless spell
3.5 has a lot more power level variance than 5e. Sometimes this isn't a problem (a Cleric focusing on buffing others and area control is by far stronger than a fighter/rogue/ranger party, but he won't overshadow them if he's spending his time working as a healbot and buff dispenser). However in most cases intra-party balance is a potential problem. To avoid this, discuss your characters before the first session (or run a session 0) and check you aren't running the same roles in different Tiers. I'd say the best Tier list is this one: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?600635-Why-each-class-is-in-its-tier-2019-update!
If someone knows the system well, ask them for advice on which class could best turn your character concept into something mechanically workable and balanced. It's not like 3.5 lacks redundant ways to achieve the same "feel" and strategy!
Avoid classes that don't have a clear focus and require optimization to be functional, and then more optimization to scale up when the monsters do. Incarnate, Binder, Shadowcaster, Factotum...

[Particle_Man]

I second the warlock for “ez bake, no paperwork” magic slinger.

Warmage is also quite simple. You have a limited list of spells and almost all of them are for going boom. Call yourself Tim the Enchanter and go to town!:smallcool:

Another option would be a psionic character like psion. Instead of spell slots, you have power points. Some people like to manage points rather than spell slots. Your call as to what is simpler. If you want fewer powers, Wilder could work.

Similarly, psychic warrior is a nice simple fighter type that uses some psionic power points. But if you don’t like psionic styles or rules, Duskblade is also a nice simple “warrior mage” option.

For fighter type Crusader is really quite simple as long as you get some cards for the random maneuver recovery (5-7 cards so not onerous). There are limited choices for maneuvers so you basically become a meat shield type.

[Togo]

3.5 has a lot more character build options than 5e. One person won't be familiar with them all. Don't try and use
them all at once, or you're going to get very confused.

It's also entirely possible in 3.5, unlike 5e, to build a character who just isn't very good. You aren't automatically good at what you want to do, you need to avoid very weak options. Similarly, you need to avoid the very strongest options, unless you're ok with a very unbalanced party. Get the DM involved in building the characters so that they can make sure everyone's characters are at least in the same ball-park when it comes to being effective at dealing with the situations the DM intends to put into the game.

There are also options that seem interesting, but are to make effective mechanically. Combat-themed monks. Craft magic potion.

Use Magic Item Compendium. It's fills a gap of the first 5 levels or so in which the core game didn't include many magic items suitable for lower-level players.

Prestige classes have a huge impact on character development. I generally choose prestige class first, and then work out what basic class levels I need to get into it. Some prestige classes have requirements that would require you to take particular options at level 1. Either put some thought during character creation into what you want your character to look like by level 6, or get the DM to allow people to rebuild their characters during the game.

3.5 is extremely flexible compared to 5e. It's entirely possible to work out what kind of character you want to play, ignoring the classic classes entirely, and then tailor a character to suit. Some of my favourite characters have been a shapeshifting beaurocrat, a professional bodybuilder, travelling academic seeking to reinvent the laws of magic, and an escaped lab experiment. Think what you actually want to play from all of fantasy, and then get some advice here or elsewhere on how the achieve that.