phantom steed help

[AceDragonKing]

Hey guys, i have a slight problem that hopefully isn’t very difficult that might be solved in a single feat that i just don’t know about.

I want to play a warmage into phantom knight for full bab and 9/10ths spell progression. But i can’t figure out how to get phantom steed as a war mage?

Can someone help me steal a singular spell from the wizard/sorcerer spell list? preferably without multiclassing or at least not more than a lvl or 2?

please and thank you

[GeoffWatson]

Would Extra Spell from Tome and Blood work?

One level of Mage of the Arcane Order.

[AceDragonKing]

Would Extra Spell from Tome and Blood work?

One level of Mage of the Arcane Order.

I just checked and it doesn’t say i can grab it from another spell list.
and the arcane order doesn’t let me learn from other classes

[ApologyFestival]

I just checked and it doesn’t say i can grab it from another spell list.


[...]For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

Even though it mentions a wizard rather than a spontaneous class, you can infer from this explanatory sentence that Extra Spell is intended to allow you to learn from another spell list.

[AceDragonKing]

Even though it mentions a wizard rather than a spontaneous class, you can infer from this explanatory sentence that Extra Spell is intended to allow you to learn from another spell list.

OH I WAS LOOKING AT THAT SPELL BUT FROM TOME AND BLOOD!

Benefit
You learn one additional spell at any level up to one level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. Thus, a 4th-level sorcerer gains a new 0-level or 1stlevel spell, expanding his repertoire. A 4th-level wizard can likewise learn an extra 0-level or 1st-level spell, but since wizards learn spells far more easily than sorcerers, this feat is of less use to her.

this says differently ! but that one works for me! Thanks guys!!!

[Aracor]

It's worth noting that the FAQ does explicitly state that you can't choose off-list spells.

Can the warmage (Complete Arcane) benefit from the Extra Spell feat?

No. Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list. Since the warmage already knows all the spells on his class spell list, this feat has no effect.

Most likely it's not overpowered to learn it, but this is definitely an "ask your GM" situation. I'd certainly allow it for a Warmage to enter Bone Knight.

[Darg]

If extra spell doesn't work for the DM there are other ways. The easiest(?) way would be to use UMD checks with a staff that contains the spell. Another is to use the magical training feat to gain access to a spellbook, scribe the spell into the spellbook, and then use the versatile spellcaster feat to cast the spell as it is now a known spell (RAW isn't always good for a game though). A third option is worshiping a god that grants the spell domain, take the arcane disciple feat and enter the PRC after you gain access to the greater anyspell spell at 12.

PRCs are meant to be tailored to the campaign, so changing the PRC to grant phantom steed with different requirements is also entirely within the rules with DM approval. Making a player wait to start their character fantasy until level 13 with a relatively low power PRC that they won't even be able able to finish before epic levels is pretty silly and would be petty.

[Psyren]

Ring of Theurgy from Complete Arcane specifically gets you access to off-list spells. It's in the same book as Warmage so you should have no problems getting it approved.

[Eurus]

There is an ACF for Warmages called Eclectic Learning (PHB 2 I think?) which allows a Warmage to take their Advanced Learning spell from any school at the cost of treating the spell as one level higher, so Phantom Steed would be a fourth level spell.

The quickest way to do this would be to squeeze in two levels of a prestige class that progresses spellcasting before taking Warmage 6, so that you can get your advanced learning spell when you have access to fourth level spells. The slower way would be to just take Warmage to 11 and get it that way, but then you can't get all ten levels of knight phantom...

[AceDragonKing]

There is an ACF for Warmages called Eclectic Learning (PHB 2 I think?) which allows a Warmage to take their Advanced Learning spell from any school at the cost of treating the spell as one level higher, so Phantom Steed would be a fourth level spell.

The quickest way to do this would be to squeeze in two levels of a prestige class that progresses spellcasting before taking Warmage 6, so that you can get your advanced learning spell when you have access to fourth level spells. The slower way would be to just take Warmage to 11 and get it that way, but then you can't get all ten levels of knight phantom...

my google-fu has failed me i can’t find that feat for the life of me

[Psyren]

my google-fu has failed me i can’t find that feat for the life of me

It's not a feat, it's an ACF. PHB2 pg. 67

[AceDragonKing]

It's not a feat, it's an ACF. PHB2 pg. 67

ohhhh okay thank you

[Khatoblepas]

Arcane Disciple (Spider) and Wis 13 also gets you the spell, and since knight phantom gets the spell as an sla anyway you're not married to riding a giant spider.

[Thurbane]

You can also qualify using Phantom Steed as an SLA, and even though I'm not well versed on Eberron, I think one of the Dragon Marks does this.

Also, a dip in Wyrm Wizard PrC would work, but would require the Arcane Preparation feat to enter, and results in a lost caster level.

The simplest method, as already pointed out, would be the PHB2 ACF for Warmages. It's only costing you a single extra spell that you might have otherwise learned. Main downside is you will be learning PS as a 4th level spell, which means a single classed Warmage couldn't select it using the ACF until 11th level, meaning you'd not be entering KP until 12th.

A slightly more controversial method is the Dragonblood Spell-pact spell (Dragons of Faerûn, p. 115), which (if you qualify as dragon blooded), would allow you to swap one of your 3rd level Warmage spells with an eligible Sorcerer or similar caster for Phantom Steed. Essentially, you lose a single 3rd evel spell off the Warmage list, and replace it with Phantom Steed. Costs XP, and you are mixing campaign settings. Also, a lot of people feel that using this combo for set list casters like Warmage has the potential to be really broken.

[AceDragonKing]

Arcane Disciple (Spider) and Wis 13 also gets you the spell, and since knight phantom gets the spell as an sla anyway you're not married to riding a giant spider.

this is great except the only two gods who give that domain are drow

[Segev]

Using the custom magic item creation rules, you could price an item that casts phantom steed at CL 5 once per day at 5,400 gp market value. That does, of course, require the usual DM approval for custom magic items. I suggest spurs that take the boots slot.

If your DM is otherwise okay with you joining the PrC, he might let you trade out a Warmage spell known for it, or just take Ecclectic Knowledge for it despite it not being a "usual" spell for the purpose. Maybe with a quest and/or a plot reward of training with a knight phantom who is mentoring you into the basics.

[Thurbane]

I'm not sure an item that can produce the effect counts as "Ability to cast phantom steed" for the character, but I went looking for official magic items with Phantom Steed effects anyway, in case the DM doesn't allow custom items. This is what I could find:


Eternal Wand (MIC) 10,900gp
Summoner's Bridle (A&EG); variant version with Phantom Steed is 12,960gp
Lute of the Minstrel (CAd) 29,500gp
Horseless Saddle (A&EG) 43,200 gp.
Dragonmark Rod of Passage (MoE) 50,000gp
Quickspur's Ally [shield] (WoL), but it's doesn't come online until you are 16th level


A Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook) can also effectively add Phantom Steed to your spells known list, which may be more useful than the items above, since there is no ambiguity about it qualifying you for the PrC. If I'm reading correctly, getting one that adds Phantom Steed would cost from 15,000gp. That's going to be tough price-wise if you're hoping to enter as early as possible. If you wanted to, you could sell it after taking the first level of KP, since you self-qualify with your Phantom Steed SLA.

[Segev]

A Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook) can also effectively add Phantom Steed to your spells known list, which may be more useful than the items above, since there is no ambiguity about it qualifying you for the PrC. If I'm reading correctly, getting one that adds Phantom Steed would cost from 15,000gp. That's going to be tough price-wise if you're hoping to enter as early as possible. If you wanted to, you could sell it after taking the first level of KP, since you self-qualify with your Phantom Steed SLA.

Huh. Now the notion of the Helm of the Hydra (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Helm_of_the_Hydra) being a psionic "response" to the Drake Helms amuses me. The canon lore doesn't work, obviously, being different editions and settings, and the themes of the powers are quite different, but I could see individual sorcerer-champions standing against a unified hive-mind of psionic manifesters as a thing.

On the subject of "knowing" spells via items, I thought I recalled something called a "knowstone" existing. This is what I could find online, which suggests it started with a Dragon magazine entry, so the canonicity is questionable: https://rotrllegacy.obsidianportal.com/wikis/knowstone

That said, 9,000 gp to know a single third level spell is certainly cheaper than 15,000.

[Thurbane]

That said, 9,000 gp to know a single third level spell is certainly cheaper than 15,000.

The issue with Knowstones is if they are off-list spells, you need UMD to get them to work.

[Segev]

The issue with Knowstones is if they are off-list spells, you need UMD to get them to work.

Ah, good catch. I keep forgetting that for some reason. Probably wishful thinking.

[Yogibear41]

There are several ways to do it. Would you rather use feats or spend gold?

Looking over the posts it seems most have been mentioned. Thurbane is correct that you can use a dragonmark to qualify (or other spell like ability)

[AceDragonKing]

There are several ways to do it. Would you rather use feats or spend gold?

Looking over the posts it seems most have been mentioned. Thurbane is correct that you can use a dragonmark to qualify (or other spell like ability)

Generally speaking i’d rather feats cause then i know for sure rather than hope and pray my DM gives me gold or the item. But i would like both

[Segev]

Generally speaking i’d rather feats cause then i know for sure rather than hope and pray my DM gives me gold or the item. But i would like both

You should definitely discuss your plans with the DM. He may be able to work a story arc or plot thread in that provides your PC the connections for the PrC, especially if the Knights Phantom are an actual organization in his setting. DMs can grant custom boons, feats, items, or the like to simply give you the spell, and if he's okay with you playing a Knight Phantom out of Warmage, he may well give you plot/quest requirements to substitute for the mechanical requirement, with the spell being a reward for those quests, or something.

[AceDragonKing]

You should definitely discuss your plans with the DM. He may be able to work a story arc or plot thread in that provides your PC the connections for the PrC, especially if the Knights Phantom are an actual organization in his setting. DMs can grant custom boons, feats, items, or the like to simply give you the spell, and if he's okay with you playing a Knight Phantom out of Warmage, he may well give you plot/quest requirements to substitute for the mechanical requirement, with the spell being a reward for those quests, or something.

i will i just don’t want to worry him about my backup character just yet. and i want to have a way to do it without homebrew. I just want to nip a problem in the bud before it becomes a problem.