Level 4 Fighter / Level 1 Something

[Frogreaver]

One thing I've been thinking about today is Multiclassing out of Fighter right before I get extra attack, sacrificing some damage for utility (or possibly defense). This concept would specifically be using PAM or XBE and also possibly SS/GWM as well. I suppose the bigger concern is having a worse Nova due to action surge losing some effectiveness.

(All vs 15 AC)

The first thing that came to mind was Battlemaster Fighter SS+CBE Fighter 4/Rogue 1. Sneak attack narrows the damage gap relative to pure fighter. Expertise is a great out of combat buff. Is the tradeoff of +3 to 2 skills worth a DPR difference of 23.3 vs 30.2 (~77%)

Next up is something like a Battlemaster Fighter SS+CBE Fighter 4/Forge Cleric 1 with DPR comparison of 23.1 vs 30.2 (~76%). With the added benefit of having a magical hand cross bow and 1st level cleric spells (such as bless for the ability to prebuff it sometimes before combat starts)

What if any other good level 1 dips are there for a level 4 fighter?

[Anymage]

Why? A second attack is not just "some damage", it's doubling your DPR on top of adding some reliability. Unless the reason you're skipping out is because you want to continue to focus in some other martial class that has Extra Attack, the ability is just much better than whatever you'd get from a first level feature.

[Lavaeolus]

I'm assuming this is a general question, not one for an already made character. Admittedly, I'm probably inclined to say Extra Attack is worth grabbing and will beat most other 1-level dips. As a Fighter, you're probably inclined to hit things with weapons: getting to do it twice instead of once is a pretty good feature.

Still, other than the ones you mention, Barbarian springs to mind as fairly effective with just one level. You'll only be able to Rage twice per long rest, but BPS resistance and advantage on Strength checks can be pretty nice (albeit it might depend on what sort of enemies a DM will throw at you). Of course, Barbarian comes with some downsides: forgoing heavy armour means you'll want to bump up both STR and DEX, which in turn will probably cost you some points that could've gone into, say, Charisma or Wisdom.

Rage Damage and being able to maintain a decent AC while running around in the nud aren't too major, but sort of nice bonuses. Obviously they don't really compare to getting Extra Attack, so tankiness would be the main benefit here. I admit Fighter 5 would probably have the edge, though.

[RogueJK]

Hexblade 1/Battlemaster 4 would work decently for either the PAM (Spear/Quarterstaff) or XBE (Hand Crossbow) route. It gets you both utility and defense.

It lets you be CHA-SAD, which means you can grab a couple Face skills with your Background and have greater usefulness in the social pillar, especially when combined with the Commanding Presence Battlemaster Maneuver.

You also get short Rest recharging Shield for extra defense.

And two cantrips for utility (like Mage Hand and Minor Illusion).

Plus Hexblades' Curse for extra critical range and bonus damage.

[Zuras]

5th level is generally not the point you want to multi-class out of fighter. I play AL, and have built a bunch of split class PCs, but I almost always either wait till after 5th or do it well before 5th.

If you are an Eldritch Knight, 4/1 Fighter/Wizard will get you some new spells known, but because of rounding, you don’t even get more spell slots. You can use Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade to avoid being too far behind in damage. Really the wizard dip works for any fighter thanks to the blade cantrips, but it’s still sub optimal unless you’re getting utility that your party obviously has been lacking.

A War Domain cleric dip also isn’t awful if you have the stats already. Again, I took the dip earlier so I could have the versatility early on, but Divine Favor is pretty useful if you have a way to get multiple attacks with your bonus action, and Sacred Flame can be very handy if your Dex is garbage and you need a ranged attack.

Still wouldn’t recommend you put off 5th level in fighter when you’re almost there.

[Frogreaver]

Why?

With a setup like XBE+SS+Archery Style Precision Attack Fighters already have solid damage at level 5. What they lack is versatility in combat and anything out of combat.



A second attack is not just "some damage", it's doubling your DPR on top of adding some reliability. Unless the reason you're skipping out is because you want to continue to focus in some other martial class that has Extra Attack, the ability is just much better than whatever you'd get from a first level feature.

It's not doubling your DPR, Not when you have a feat that grants a bonus action and dip into a class that grants a damage boost. The examples I listed were about 76-77% of the DPR of the extra attack Fighter.


I'm assuming this is a general question, not one for an already made character. Admittedly, I'm probably inclined to say Extra Attack is worth grabbing and will beat most other 1-level dips. As a Fighter, you're probably inclined to hit things with weapons: getting to do it twice instead of once is a pretty good feature.

I think it's worth noting I wouldn't advise any Fighter to stay at a single attack. But if using weapon feats for bonus action attacks (or dual wielding in a less optimized game) you get to maintain 2 attacks.


Still, other than the ones you mention, Barbarian springs to mind as fairly effective with just one level. You'll only be able to Rage twice per long rest, but BPS resistance and advantage on Strength checks can be pretty nice (albeit it might depend on what sort of enemies a DM will throw at you). Of course, Barbarian comes with some downsides: forgoing heavy armour means you'll want to bump up both STR and DEX, which in turn will probably cost you some points that could've gone into, say, Charisma or Wisdom.

Yea, I think Barbarian deserves a mention. I love rage, but was really hoping the 1 level dip would help to round out the character out of combat as well and all the Barbarian dip does is trade some offense for some defense.


Rage Damage and being able to maintain a decent AC while running around in the nud aren't too major, but sort of nice bonuses. Obviously they don't really compare to getting Extra Attack, so tankiness would be the main benefit here. I admit Fighter 5 would probably have the edge, though.

I think I'm on the same page there.


Hexblade 1/Battlemaster 4 would work decently for either the PAM (Spear/Quarterstaff) or XBE (Hand Crossbow) route. It gets you both utility and defense.

It lets you be CHA-SAD, which means you can grab a couple Face skills with your Background and have greater usefulness in the social pillar, especially when combined with the Commanding Presence Battlemaster Maneuver.

You also get short Rest recharging Shield for extra defense.

And two cantrips for utility (like Mage Hand and Minor Illusion).

Plus Hexblades' Curse for extra critical range and bonus damage.

I like it. Not sure I like it better than Forge Cleric or Rogue but it's solid.


5th level is generally not the point you want to multi-class out of fighter. I play AL, and have built a bunch of split class PCs, but I almost always either wait till after 5th or do it well before 5th.

I could elaborate on why level 5 to no end. But changing it from level 5 would defeat the point of the experiment.


If you are an Eldritch Knight, 4/1 Fighter/Wizard will get you some new spells known, but because of rounding, you don’t even get more spell slots. You can use Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade to avoid being too far behind in damage. Really the wizard dip works for any fighter thanks to the blade cantrips, but it’s still sub optimal unless you’re getting utility that your party obviously has been lacking.

Yea, I think you are right to mention that Wizard 1 is a decent dip for any featless fighter due to the blade cantrips. It's also a decent dip for say a CBE+SS Battlemaster fighter.


A War Domain cleric dip also isn’t awful if you have the stats already. Again, I took the dip earlier so I could have the versatility early on, but Divine Favor is pretty useful if you have a way to get multiple attacks with your bonus action, and Sacred Flame can be very handy if your Dex is garbage and you need a ranged attack.

If one has a bonus action feat then War Domain does so little. If one doesn't the getting extra attack is so much better. I honestly don't see the benefits to this one.


Still wouldn’t recommend you put off 5th level in fighter when you’re almost there.

Honestly I think I'm happiest with the Forge Cleric dip. Turning the handcrossbow magical +1/+1 is a huge deal. Accuracy increases really help with SS. By level 5 your likely to start seeing some enemies with resistance to non-magical weapons and this bypasses that. Add on cleric cantrips like guidance, light and thaumaturgy. Add on spells like Bless, Healing Word and Detect Magic.