WOTC is making another Critical Role book

[jaappleton]

Hey everybody. Been a minute! Sorry I haven't been around, haven't had much to say in the world of leaks and news.

I am led to believe its more a collection of adventures set in the Critical Role universe, as opposed to a huge campaign book.

Source? Come on now, its me.

[strangebloke]

Shocked! I'm Shocked!

Well, not that Shocked.

At this point Mercer individually puts in more hours than most of the 5e team.

[KorvinStarmast]

At this point Mercer individually puts in more hours than most of the 5e team. I guess that quantity has a quality all its own. Good for him, not gonna buy it. But I applaud the success of Critical Role:
I can play D&D and get paid to do it.
Hell yes. :smallsmile:

[jaappleton]

Shocked! I'm Shocked!

Well, not that Shocked.

At this point Mercer individually puts in more hours than most of the 5e team.

There was a question as to whether or not CR would do their own stuff now that they've started a publishing company.

WOTC made so much off Wildemount (Seriously its like top 4 of the 5E books in terms of sales) that it was too lucrative to let CR do it themselves. Plus, lets be honest.... CR can hire all the freelancers they want, but they don't have enough people really capable of doing all the heavy lifting on a book. Very, very few outside of WOTC can.

Look at the first Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide with Green Ronin. Its in the trash now.

[loki_ragnarock]

There was a question as to whether or not CR would do their own stuff now that they've started a publishing company.

WOTC made so much off Wildemount (Seriously its like top 4 of the 5E books in terms of sales) that it was too lucrative to let CR do it themselves. Plus, lets be honest.... CR can hire all the freelancers they want, but they don't have enough people really capable of doing all the heavy lifting on a book. Very, very few outside of WOTC can.

Look at the first Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide with Green Ronin. Its in the trash now.

According to a friend, they've got their hands full making the rules to their board games intuitive.

When you *must* watch a "let's play" to get the idea across, I'm not sure a whole book is in the cards. Yet. I'm sure they'll be able to hire specific people to churn them out before terribly long.

[ZRN]

Hey everybody. Been a minute! Sorry I haven't been around, haven't had much to say in the world of leaks and news.

I am led to believe its more a collection of adventures set in the Critical Role universe, as opposed to a huge campaign book.

Source? Come on now, its me.

This is in addition to the "new" book (a revised version of the Tal'Dorei guide) the CR team is self-publishing?

[jaappleton]

This is in addition to the "new" book (a revised version of the Tal'Dorei guide) the CR team is self-publishing?

Correct.

The "new" Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide is independent of WOTC, after throwing the original book by Green Ronin into the garbage.

This adventure book that I am talking about is by WOTC.

EDIT: The most newsworthy part of this might be the fact that, if my memory serves.... This would actually be the first adventure book explicitly set OUTSIDE the Forgotten Realms, wouldn't it?

Aside from CoS. That's its own plane, right? But I think that does start with a town outside that plane, which is in FR, and then sends the party to Barovia....

[nickl_2000]

I guess that quantity has a quality all its own. Good for him, not gonna buy it. But I applaud the success of Critical Role:
I can play D&D and get paid to do it.
Hell yes. :smallsmile:

I'm not angry it will exist, but Meh...

[loki_ragnarock]

I'm not angry it will exist, but Meh...

It would be straight up a missed opportunity not to pander to that fan base. Critters are hardcore, man. I just went to a con and saw someone who wore a different Critical Role mask every. single. day. One of which matched their tattoo. They will buy that book. They might even buy it twice.

And I'd rather see a campaign setting that was the enthusiastic work of a D&D fan a hundred fold more than yet another MtG crossover.

(I'd still rather see Planescape or Spelljammer than either, but those're about the least likely to happen. I've contemplated getting a Lady of Pain tattoo over the years, but frankly I'm not that hardcore. Probably why they're less likely.)

[nickl_2000]

It would be straight up a missed opportunity not to pander to that fan base. Critters are hardcore, man. I just went to a con and saw someone who wore a different Critical Role mask every. single. day. One of which matched their tattoo. They will buy that book. They might even buy it twice.

And I'd rather see a campaign setting that was the enthusiastic work of a D&D fan a hundred fold more than yet another MtG crossover.

(I'd still rather see Planescape or Spelljammer than either, but those're about the least likely to happen. I've contemplated getting a Lady of Pain tattoo over the years, but frankly I'm not that hardcore. Probably why they're less likely.)

Yup, it's not for me. However, just because something is not for me doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I have less than 0 interest in Critical Roll myself, but since it bring more people into a hobby I love, I think Critical Roll is a worthwhile thing.

[Dork_Forge]

CR can hire all the freelancers they want, but they don't have enough people really capable of doing all the heavy lifting on a book. Very, very few outside of WOTC can.

Look at the first Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide with Green Ronin. Its in the trash now.

Very curious what you mean by this, WotC heavily relies on freelancers themselves...


Correct.

The "new" Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide is independent of WOTC, after throwing the original book by Green Ronin into the garbage.

This adventure book that I am talking about is by WOTC.

EDIT: The most newsworthy part of this might be the fact that, if my memory serves.... This would actually be the first adventure book explicitly set OUTSIDE the Forgotten Realms, wouldn't it?

Aside from CoS. That's its own plane, right? But I think that does start with a town outside that plane, which is in FR, and then sends the party to Barovia....

GoS was set in Greyhawk I think.

[Catullus64]

At this point, I wonder if we can just convince the producers of Critical Role to do an AU series set in Dark Sun. Maybe then WotC will actually put out a book for it.

[ZRN]

Yup, it's not for me. However, just because something is not for me doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I have less than 0 interest in Critical Roll myself, but since it bring more people into a hobby I love, I think Critical Roll is a worthwhile thing.

The potentially "nice" thing for you then is that the CR world is basically a bog-standard D&D world like FR or Greyhawk, so any adventures set in that world can easily be ported to your gameworld (or at least as easy as an FR or Greyhawk adventure could be). Just change a few NPC names and you're set.

[Garresh]

Mercer and the gang are great but they really need to outsource some playtesting to balance their classes and stuff. My only real complaint though. Looking forward to more of their stuff.

[Garresh]

Yup, it's not for me. However, just because something is not for me doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I have less than 0 interest in Critical Roll myself, but since it bring more people into a hobby I love, I think Critical Roll is a worthwhile thing.

They're actually good though unlike Harmonquest and other stuff.(Shots fired!) I don't watch all their stuff though but every time I tune in I enjoy it. It's high quality and well done.

[jaappleton]

Very curious what you mean by this, WotC heavily relies on freelancers themselves...


WOTC does heavily utilize freelancers.

To handle fringe pieces of their books. Not to do the heavy lifting. I don't mean to sound rude by this or to put down any freelancer that WOTC has worked with, but... If you've worked with WOTC repeatedly, and you're still a freelancer after working with them repeatedly, there is a reason you're still a freelancer. I won't name names, but there's certain names that I've seen pop up time and time again doing freelance work and its... The quality is outright bad. Laughably bad. D&DWiki bad. I do not make that last analogy lightly.

What I'm saying is that CR can hire any individual freelancers they want to, form a team, and tell them to write a book. And I'm telling you that team wouldn't be able to compare to the quality of an actual WOTC book, even one that those same freelancers were heavily involved with.

Example: Ghosts of Saltmarsh was basically a port job. Take stuff from an older edition, revise it for 5E, good to go. And they did heavily utilize freelancers on that book. I'm telling you outright; Those same freelancers could not have churned out a product anywhere near as good as Saltmarsh without the actual WOTC team overseeing them.

That being said, what would a CR book look like without the WOTC design team involved.....? Well, they did that already. And its literally in the trash as a result. And some of the people that worked on that book, they continue to do work with WOTC. Go through the books and you'll see some of the same names regarding freelancers... And their work is a mixture of straight up bad and disappointing.

EDIT: Let me be perfectly clear, this isn't me overly praising the WOTC design team. Believe me, I've got my own slew of issues with them and their work. As an example, my thoughts on Descent Into Avernus are incredibly well documented on these forums. Curse of Strahd as well. Please do not mistake my commentary about certain freelancers as praise for the WOTC design team. If anything, with my thoughts fully documented as they are, my commentary on certain freelancers is even more scathing.

[loki_ragnarock]

At this point, I wonder if we can just convince the producers of Critical Role to do an AU series set in Dark Sun. Maybe then WotC will actually put out a book for it.

...

...

... I know it's in blue text, but I'm pretty sure that would work.

[Dork_Forge]

WOTC does heavily utilize freelancers.

To handle fringe pieces of their books. Not to do the heavy lifting. I don't mean to sound rude by this or to put down any freelancer that WOTC has worked with, but... If you've worked with WOTC repeatedly, and you're still a freelancer after working with them repeatedly, there is a reason you're still a freelancer. I won't name names, but there's certain names that I've seen pop up time and time again doing freelance work and its... The quality is outright bad. Laughably bad. D&DWiki bad. I do not make that last analogy lightly.

What I'm saying is that CR can hire any individual freelancers they want to, form a team, and tell them to write a book. And I'm telling you that team wouldn't be able to compare to the quality of an actual WOTC book, even one that those same freelancers were heavily involved with.

Example: Ghosts of Saltmarsh was basically a port job. Take stuff from an older edition, revise it for 5E, good to go. And they did heavily utilize freelancers on that book. I'm telling you outright; Those same freelancers could not have churned out a product anywhere near as good as Saltmarsh without the actual WOTC team overseeing them.

That being said, what would a CR book look like without the WOTC design team involved.....? Well, they did that already. And its literally in the trash as a result. And some of the people that worked on that book, they continue to do work with WOTC. Go through the books and you'll see some of the same names regarding freelancers... And their work is a mixture of straight up bad and disappointing.

EDIT: Let me be perfectly clear, this isn't me overly praising the WOTC design team. Believe me, I've got my own slew of issues with them and their work. As an example, my thoughts on Descent Into Avernus are incredibly well documented on these forums. Curse of Strahd as well. Please do not mistake my commentary about certain freelancers as praise for the WOTC design team. If anything, with my thoughts fully documented as they are, my commentary on certain freelancers is even more scathing.

Sorry but this doesn't really hold much water imo:

It's a CR, so Mercer would be heavily involved, both in writing and review I imagine.

Dishing out an entire book to freelancers would be hard, because working with freelancers requires a high level of communication and management that is already in place in WotC. CR wouldn't just get a bunch of freelancers and say book please, at least they shouldn't... They should be reviewing the work, asking for rewrites and tweaks and having it professionally edited, by an editor that understands the intent of the words and works with the management team or writer.

For the first book 'being in the trash' it was an early work, and from what I understand of the new one, it isn't in the trash, it was reworked and expanded on with a different publisher (their own). The same stuff will still be in it.

To address the part about if you've worked with them repeatedly and you're still a freelancer:

That's how they work? They can't afford to salary all of the writers they need and offer them the associated benefits that come with real employment. To infer that a repeated freelancer means that they aren't worth employing is nonsense, if they're bad you just don't hire them again continuing to hire them as a freelancer is basically using them as cheap staff, it makes no sense to draw performance parallels from whether they went full time or continued to freelance.

To be transparent I take issue with the premise of what you're saying partly because I'm a freelancer that works 90% within the 5E niche, but also this:

Being employed by WotC does not mean you do good work, a book being put out by WotC does not mean that it will be good. Multiple WotC have been an utter shambles that is directly their fault, the most prominent being the utter failure of management that Candlekeep was.

To infer that you need to be hired by a company that doesn't keep a huge writing staff by design, to vindicate your work is outrageous. And given recent works by WotC I have to firmly disagree with the notion that only they can wrangle a book heavily done by freelancers, when they're abandoning their own core design principles and hitting niches like 'you know what we need in this next book catering to every class? A slew of Wizard items'

[Kuulvheysoon]

...

...

... I know it's in blue text, but I'm pretty sure that would work.

I doubt it. To make Dark Sun palatable in the current socio-political scene, they'd have to revise it pretty heavily, and they'd lose fans of the original setting.

Far as I'm concerned, Dark Sun is a dead setting.

[DarknessEternal]

WOTC made so much off Wildemount (Seriously its like top 4 of the 5E books in terms of sales) .

Citation Needed.

[Unoriginal]

This would actually be the first adventure book explicitly set OUTSIDE the Forgotten Realms, wouldn't it?

Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk as a default, with one paragraph to explain where to put it in FR or Eberron if you want to.

[Luccan]

...

...

... I know it's in blue text, but I'm pretty sure that would work.

If they could pull it off, I'm pretty sure their fanbase would make a big push for it. I'm not sure they could, though. Setting aside some of the darker aspects of the setting that could make that difficult. Dark Sun is a setting that I think benefits from temporal stasis or at least close to that. Like Eberron. Eberron always starts shortly after the war because if the post-war tensions were ever canonically resolved you'd lose a lot of interesting hooks and/or irrevocably change the tone and setting. I have an idea for an Eberron game that does just that, but it's a terrible idea to make it canon.

Dark Sun is similar. Moving the timeline at all, except maybe up to the point of liberating Tyr, could have significant impact for the setting. And a CR game set in Athas is likely to set some expectations for canon if a book were to be released. Matt was already hesitant to comment on anything that could relate to the hooks in EGtW because he wanted DMs to come up with their own answers to certain mysteries and not feel totally beholden to the show. I can't imagine Dark Sun would be any different

[Brookshw]

(I'd still rather see Planescape or Spelljammer than either, but those're about the least likely to happen. I've contemplated getting a Lady of Pain tattoo over the years, but frankly I'm not that hardcore. Probably why they're less likely.)

I've wondered if the PS fluff might be too comparable to MtG fluff for WOTC to want to put PS out, i.e., why compete with themselves? Then again, I know nothing of MtG in the last 20 years so don't know how far off the mark I am.

3rd party setting wise, I'm really taken with Kobold Presses' Midgard setting.

Back to the OP, nice for CR but I'm still not interested in their content. Nothing against them.

[Lycurgon]

That being said, what would a CR book look like without the WOTC design team involved.....? Well, they did that already. And its literally in the trash as a result. And some of the people that worked on that book, they continue to do work with WOTC. Go through the books and you'll see some of the same names regarding freelancers... And their work is a mixture of straight up bad and disappointing.


"And its literally in the trash as a result."

Ur, no. Firstly, you are using literally when you mean figuratively. You are also totally wrong. That book you claim is "in the trash" is highly sort after and second hand copies sells for hundreds of dollars. And the new version is a revised version of the same book. The Reborn book is updated, revised and expanded version of the original Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting book, not an entirely origin work. And the reason they are making the new version is because of the high demand for the original book.

[jaappleton]

"And its literally in the trash as a result."

Ur, no. Firstly, you are using literally when you mean figuratively. You are also totally wrong. That book you claim is "in the trash" is highly sort after and second hand copies sells for hundreds of dollars. And the new version is a revised version of the same book. The Reborn book is updated, revised and expanded version of the original Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting book, not an entirely origin work. And the reason they are making the new version is because of the high demand for the original book.

I'm not wrong.

Critical Role dropped Green Ronin. Do you understand that? THAT is why it's sought after, because it's out of print. Why is it out of print? Because looking back at it, CR was quite unhappy with it in hindsight, and didn't want that book printed anymore.

The book is largely being rewritten.

Popularity and/or demand does not equate to quality.

-----

Dork_Forge,
Please don't take any of my commentary about the freelancers WOTC hires as any sort of personal attack or indictment about your work.

I don't want to name names regarding exactly who I am referring two, but it's largely aimed at two 5E freelancers, both of whom share the same first name beginning with J and ending with Ames.

Go through enough 5e adventure books and you'll see exactly who I mean... They also wrote a lot of the early DMs Guild content when it was first launched in conjunction with ToA.

[False God]

Never been huge on adventure books, but for someone who's really into CR's setting and lore and stories I'm sure it'll be great.

I know folks say exactly the same thing every time WotC publishes an MTG-related book and I can't get to the store fast enough.

So, no hate. Let me know when the next MTG book drops. lol

[Dork_Forge]

I'm not wrong.

Critical Role dropped Green Ronin. Do you understand that? THAT is why it's sought after, because it's out of print. Why is it out of print? Because looking back at it, CR was quite unhappy with it in hindsight, and didn't want that book printed anymore.

The book is largely being rewritten.

Popularity and/or demand does not equate to quality.

And quality does not equate to a publisher or the freelancers hired. Unless it was outright stated in an interview (which I doubt) why it was dropped is speculation and could just as much be about contract terms as anything else.

-----


Dork_Forge,
Please don't take any of my commentary about the freelancers WOTC hires as any sort of personal attack or indictment about your work.

I don't want to name names regarding exactly who I am referring two, but it's largely aimed at two 5E freelancers, both of whom share the same first name beginning with J and ending with Ames.

Go through enough 5e adventure books and you'll see exactly who I mean... They also wrote a lot of the early DMs Guild content when it was first launched in conjunction with ToA.

I don't take it personally in that sense, and I was a bit overly invested in my response, so apologies on that front.

However I stand by what I said, someone being contracted to freelance multiple times is never a sign of poor quality work. If you do a bad job freelancing then you just won't get more work from that client, period. If you're unlucky and use a formal service you might even get a bad review that could make things difficult in future.

Case in point: Multiple companies I've done work for use freelancers pretty much exclusively for content, could they hire someone? Sure, but why bother when they have next to no contractual obligations to the freelancer and all of the power?

One company I've done half a dozen pieces for is a marketing company. They have no reason to hire a specialised writer onto staff.

WotC are a specialised company, but why hire a large writing team when you can piece out what you need as you need it, according to the budget of each project? They can even (and have) spun freelancing as promoting upcoming writers. Taking on even most of the staff they need for book content would tank their profits in benefits an additional HR costs.

[jaappleton]

why it was dropped is speculation


Forge,

We've seen one another around these forums an awful lot over the years.

We certainly recognize one another's usernames, right?

I like to think that in my 'predictions' about upcoming and unannounced WOTC content, I've been pretty darn accurate.

When I say stuff like that, it's a very informed opinion.

I'm far from correct 100% of the time regarding a lot of things in 5E. Balance, rules, wordings, etc. I'm often wrong on that front, for sure. Particularly on balance, I'm afraid.

But you have to admit, my 'speculation' over the years? I've got a pretty darn good track record when it comes to how accurate I've been.

I can't get into why I know these things, you know that. You're just going to have to give me the benefit of the doubt here.

[KorvinStarmast]

At this point, I wonder if we can just convince the producers of Critical Role to do an AU series set in Dark Sun. Maybe then WotC will actually put out a book for it. If that's what it takes, I may just hold my breath and hope.


I doubt it. To make Dark Sun palatable in the current socio-political scene Would be bold, and would show courage. Which lessens the chance it will happen to actually make Dark Sun rather than "a thing with a Dark Sun logo that isn't Dark Sun"...

Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk as a default, with one paragraph to explain where to put it in FR or Eberron if you want to. But I had to go on line to find a useful WoG map. And it's good.

Setting aside some of the darker aspects of the setting that could make that difficult. It would make it less Dark Sun. :smallconfused:

[Luccan]

.
It would make it less Dark Sun. :smallconfused:

I meant for the purpose of my comment that it wasn't my main concern. Obviously that is Dark Sun and presents potential issues for them playing it anyway, but even assuming they played it completely straight, see the rest of what I wrote

[Gyor]

Hey everybody. Been a minute! Sorry I haven't been around, haven't had much to say in the world of leaks and news.

I am led to believe its more a collection of adventures set in the Critical Role universe, as opposed to a huge campaign book.

Source? Come on now, its me.

I'm really, really hoping this doesn't count as the setting book revisit,we've needed a proper Forgotten Realms Campaign since 5e began. I don't think it would, I mean that would be like counting Candlekeep Mysteries as a setting book for FR, which is silly.

[verbatim]

I've wondered if the PS fluff might be too comparable to MtG fluff for WOTC to want to put PS out, i.e., why compete with themselves? Then again, I know nothing of MtG in the last 20 years so don't know how far off the mark I am.


This is why I am indifferent/not opposed to more Critical Role books. It makes sense from a business perspective and it's not like they're going to crowd out any popular untouched settings (Spelljammer/Dark Sun/Planescape/etc) due to thematic similarities.


That being said, hopefully the next one will have their new character options undergo a round of UA testing prior to publication.

[Khrysaes]

Correct.

The "new" Tal'Dorei Campaign Guide is independent of WOTC, after throwing the original book by Green Ronin into the garbage.

This adventure book that I am talking about is by WOTC.

EDIT: The most newsworthy part of this might be the fact that, if my memory serves.... This would actually be the first adventure book explicitly set OUTSIDE the Forgotten Realms, wouldn't it?

Aside from CoS. That's its own plane, right? But I think that does start with a town outside that plane, which is in FR, and then sends the party to Barovia....

Explicitly set outside FR? I think much like CoS, Witchlight will be outside the FR as it is in the Feywild.

Then arguably Saltmarsh is outside FR as well as the Saltmarsh is in Greyhawk, but I am not sure how explicit this adventure is to being not in FR.

Edit: I forgot that the Eberron book is also an adventure book. So that makes three adventure books not in the Forgotten Realms, although two are adjacent being other planes.

[Gyor]

Explicitly set outside FR? I think much like CoS, Witchlight will be outside the FR as it is in the Feywild.

Then arguably Saltmarsh is outside FR as well as the Saltmarsh is in Greyhawk, but I am not sure how explicit this adventure is to being not in FR.

Edit: I forgot that the Eberron book is also an adventure book. So that makes three adventure books not in the Forgotten Realms, although two are adjacent being other planes.

Mystic Odysseys of Theros and Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica both have small adventures in them too.

[jaappleton]

Personally, I differentiate highly between campaign setting books that have intro adventures in them VS adventure books which are designed to be campaigns.

Saltmarsh, Tyranny, CoS, etc are all adventure books

Theros, Eberron: RftLW, etc are campaign setting books.

That's just me. Your definition may vary greatly.

[Gyor]

Personally, I differentiate highly between campaign setting books that have intro adventures in them VS adventure books which are designed to be campaigns.

Saltmarsh, Tyranny, CoS, etc are all adventure books

Theros, Eberron: RftLW, etc are campaign setting books.

That's just me. Your definition may vary greatly.

That is a relief as it likely means the adventure anthology for Exandria isn't the Campaign Setting Book revisit as I'm guess WotCs view isn't that far from yours. I guess it might not be too long before we find out, given that D&D Celebration 9 days 22 hours and 44 minutes away, and at the event as the last panel will be the Future of D&D Panel.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Forge,
But you have to admit, my 'speculation' over the years? I've got a pretty darn good track record when it comes to how accurate I've been.

I can't get into why I know these things, you know that. You're just going to have to give me the benefit of the doubt here.

Fun fact. I used to be a criminal investigator for one of the world's largest banks. Specifically on our Organized Crime Unit. (Paper pusher, nothing glamorous).

So we'd find out about places where credit card fraud was happening, which stores were fronts for things, etc.

My friends and family knew what I did and without fail here is a repeated conversation.

Me (Hearing them going to go to a place I know is bad): "That's cool guys, you should make sure you bring cash, don't use plastic."

Friend/Family: "Why not? What's wrong with that place?"

Me: "Just trust me on it and bring cash, the (product)'s great, but don't use plastic."

Friend/Family: I don't know, you're not giving us reason to listen...

Long way of saying I deeply sympathize with the point you're making. :)

[Dork_Forge]

Fun fact. I used to be a criminal investigator for one of the world's largest banks. Specifically on our Organized Crime Unit. (Paper pusher, nothing glamorous).

So we'd find out about places where credit card fraud was happening, which stores were fronts for things, etc.

My friends and family knew what I did and without fail here is a repeated conversation.

Me (Hearing them going to go to a place I know is bad): "That's cool guys, you should make sure you bring cash, don't use plastic."

Friend/Family: "Why not? What's wrong with that place?"

Me: "Just trust me on it and bring cash, the (product)'s great, but don't use plastic."

Friend/Family: I don't know, you're not giving us reason to listen...

Long way of saying I deeply sympathize with the point you're making. :)

That's a cool story, but as the one that post was aimed at it was not appreciated.

Jaapleton has displayed the ability to gain access to information pertinent to book releases, and I trust that if they say something about a book release, regarding their actual content, theme, or release schedule I am inclined to believe that.

I have no reason to believe that a commericially successful product was hated by the creators, especially since there's absolutely zero reason they couldn't say a nicer version of that publicly.

Content predictions is a very different thing than what was speculated, and I have zero reason or inclination to give that the benefit of the doubt. Especially when it's on the back of paper thin veiled distaste towards certain content creators that was then used as fuel to tar the freelance community as a whole.

[KorvinStarmast]

Especially when it's on the back of paper thin veiled distaste towards certain content creators that was then used as fuel to tar the freelance community as a whole. While I am not going to dive into these somewhat treacherous shoal waters, if I do ever find out who dreamed up the SCAG published Purple Dragon Knight, I am going to have a few questions on "what were you thinking?" ... presuming that was freelance work and not an inhouse product. (IIRC, Green Ronin did SCAG).

Having read through the Candlekeep stories, I have kept a few (did the Yellowcrest manor adventure, it was OK but I had to flesh it out a lot). After trying to shoehorn the level 6 adventure into our world I finally gave up, it just didn't fit our group. I play tested a couple of the higher level ones before the book came out; we'll see if they fit our group when they get closer to that level.

Overall, though, unless you are running an FR campaign and are invested in FR, that book's a bit of a disappointment for me. I hope that others are enjoying those adventures more than I have.

[jaappleton]

Especially when it's on the back of paper thin veiled distaste towards certain content creators that was then used as fuel to tar the freelance community as a whole.

If that's how it came across, you have my sincere apologies. I mean that.

At no point did I mean to disrespect the freelance community as a whole. And reading my post again, I certainly see how it reads that way.

I stand by what I stated about two very particular individuals, that have worked on numerous WOTC 5e products, that repeatedly push out borderline terrible content with zero regard for proper mechanics or balance. I firmly believe their work is highly regarded when in fact there are many here in this very community here at GitP, and other online communities, that are incredibly superior to those two in these regards.

I see these two people being regarded as prominent freelancers when I know so, so many more that are just so damn better in every way (and I mean that more than just in regards to being a designer), and it upsets me that others aren't given opportunities.

And based on our numerous interactions, Forge? I'd absolutely put your work above theirs, for sure. That's not me attempting to smooth things out between the two of us, or to 'shine you on', so to speak. That's merely me speaking honestly, as I always have.

Regarding myself and how I get my information, for books and other things...? Let's just say that the numerous people I talk to would have plenty of knowledge of it all. I don't state 'informed opinions' unless they are indeed informed. When it's not informed, I try my absolute best to state its merely my own speculation.

-----
Side note
@Korvin
You need to attribute who you quoted to the correct poster, my friend.

[KorvinStarmast]

Side note
@Korvin
You need to attribute who you quoted to the correct poster, my friend.
whoops, multiquote messed up again. Went back and fixed it.

[T.G. Oskar]

Personally, I differentiate highly between campaign setting books that have intro adventures in them VS adventure books which are designed to be campaigns.

Saltmarsh, Tyranny, CoS, etc are all adventure books

Theros, Eberron: RftLW, etc are campaign setting books.

That's just me. Your definition may vary greatly.

Not to dissent (your examples are spot-on), but I'd add Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft as a campaign setting book, which happens to have Curse of Strahd as its companion module. Before that, CoS was a self-contained sandbox in Ravenloft, but with VRGtR's release, the other domains of Dread have been at least touched upon.

So, it's possible that the CR release is a module? If so, that'd be promising, as it could involve having a campaign setting book for Greyhawk and a module for Eberron, which I think would round things up nicely. One campaign setting book, one companion module (sort of like what they did with the Elemental Evil module, which had its own companion PDF, though that wasn't a campaign setting book per se) for each of the principal campaign settings (FR, Greyhawk, Eberron, Ravenloft; I also treat Dragonlance and Dark Sun as principal, with lesser-known places such as Al-Qadim as secondary, and all M:tG content as aberrations).

And it should be obvious that, if they're making a revisit to a campaign setting book other than Ravenloft, it should be Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, if only because it was universally panned. (And because they still need to update the Arcana Cleric, the Battlerager Barbarian the Long Death Monk and the Oath of the Crown Paladin; YMMV on the Undying patron since VRGtR has the Undead patron which is a thinly-veiled remake.)

[jaappleton]

Not to dissent (your examples are spot-on), but I'd add Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft as a campaign setting book, which happens to have Curse of Strahd as its companion module. Before that, CoS was a self-contained sandbox in Ravenloft, but with VRGtR's release, the other domains of Dread have been at least touched upon.

So, it's possible that the CR release is a module? If so, that'd be promising, as it could involve having a campaign setting book for Greyhawk and a module for Eberron, which I think would round things up nicely. One campaign setting book, one companion module (sort of like what they did with the Elemental Evil module, which had its own companion PDF, though that wasn't a campaign setting book per se) for each of the principal campaign settings (FR, Greyhawk, Eberron, Ravenloft; I also treat Dragonlance and Dark Sun as principal, with lesser-known places such as Al-Qadim as secondary, and all M:tG content as aberrations).

And it should be obvious that, if they're making a revisit to a campaign setting book other than Ravenloft, it should be Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, if only because it was universally panned. (And because they still need to update the Arcana Cleric, the Battlerager Barbarian the Long Death Monk and the Oath of the Crown Paladin; YMMV on the Undying patron since VRGtR has the Undead patron which is a thinly-veiled remake.)

I've heard it specifically described as a series of adventures set in CR.

Wildemount, Tal'Dorei, elsewhere? I do not know. Sorry. Does it all take place in one area or across different lands? Unknown.

If I had more info to give, I absolutely would. Anything additional I'd say would only be speculation.

[Gyor]

Not to dissent (your examples are spot-on), but I'd add Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft as a campaign setting book, which happens to have Curse of Strahd as its companion module. Before that, CoS was a self-contained sandbox in Ravenloft, but with VRGtR's release, the other domains of Dread have been at least touched upon.

So, it's possible that the CR release is a module? If so, that'd be promising, as it could involve having a campaign setting book for Greyhawk and a module for Eberron, which I think would round things up nicely. One campaign setting book, one companion module (sort of like what they did with the Elemental Evil module, which had its own companion PDF, though that wasn't a campaign setting book per se) for each of the principal campaign settings (FR, Greyhawk, Eberron, Ravenloft; I also treat Dragonlance and Dark Sun as principal, with lesser-known places such as Al-Qadim as secondary, and all M:tG content as aberrations).

And it should be obvious that, if they're making a revisit to a campaign setting book other than Ravenloft, it should be Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, if only because it was universally panned. (And because they still need to update the Arcana Cleric, the Battlerager Barbarian the Long Death Monk and the Oath of the Crown Paladin; YMMV on the Undying patron since VRGtR has the Undead patron which is a thinly-veiled remake.)

They could update the other type of Patrons for the Undying Patron, Demigods were most of the none Undead Patrons listed so a Demigod Patron or Quasigod or even Immortal Patron would be a great way to update the other half, none Undead half of Undying Patron. One way they could make it more distinct is to make it a Divine Magic Warlock, even as far as I know Celestial Warlock is Arcane magic.


I've heard it specifically described as a series of adventures set in CR.

Wildemount, Tal'Dorei, elsewhere? I do not know. Sorry. Does it all take place in one area or across different lands? Unknown.

If I had more info to give, I absolutely would. Anything additional I'd say would only be speculation.

As long as it's not taking up the Campaig
Setting Revisit slot that rightfully goes to FR, then it's all good no matter what continent it's on (could even be both or a third one).

[BRayne7]

The main reason that the old Tal'Dorei book is out of print is probably because it has the words "Critical Role, Geek & Sundry, and their associated logos are trademarks of Legendary Geek & Sundry and used under license." printed on the back.