Dragon Shaman Adaptation: Hellfire Wyrm

[Yogibear41]

If you were making a Dragon Shaman Adaptation for the Hellfire Wyrm (MM2) What would be a reasonable ability to give the Dragon Shaman for its 3rd level Draconic Adaptation Ability?

Also would it be reasonable to keep the breath weapon damage the same as the original creature (1/2 fire and 1/2 untyped or divine, akin to a flame strike) or should it just do Fire Damage.

[AceDragonKing]

If you were making a Dragon Shaman Adaptation for the Hellfire Wyrm (MM2) What would be a reasonable ability to give the Dragon Shaman for its 3rd level Draconic Adaptation Ability?

Also would it be reasonable to keep the breath weapon damage the same as the original creature (1/2 fire and 1/2 untyped or divine, akin to a flame strike) or should it just do Fire Damage.

Well based on what the other dragons give for their adaptation a small thing at will that either duplicates a low lvl spell like spider climb/feather fall but is at will. or they gain the ability to breather under water or walk on ice ect permanently

i would follow that train on thought and give them at 3rd lvl adaptation the ability to do an alter self (teifling transformation only) at will

[Thurbane]

Having half energy/half divine or untyped damage is a clear upgrade from standard Dragon Shaman. Depending on your game, this may be fine, since DS is generally considered quite underpowered, especially compared with something like the Dragonfire Adept. If you want to keep it more inline with standard DS, maybe reduce the damage dice (from d6 to d4?).

For the 3rd level Draconic Adaptation ability, it's a bit more difficult. The only SLA that the Hellfire Wyrm gets that would be of similar level to the standard DS choices is Charm Person, and spamming Charm Person every round could be quite problematic. Maybe at will Message, as a toned down version of Sending? Or a competence bonus to Intimidate?

For the three extra skills, maybe Bluff, Listen and Spot.

[Darg]

Having half energy/half divine or untyped damage is a clear upgrade from standard Dragon Shaman. Depending on your game, this may be fine, since DS is generally considered quite underpowered, especially compared with something like the Dragonfire Adept. If you want to keep it more inline with standard DS, maybe reduce the damage dice (from d6 to d4?).

For the 3rd level Draconic Adaptation ability, it's a bit more difficult. The only SLA that the Hellfire Wyrm gets that would be of similar level to the standard DS choices is Charm Person, and spamming Charm Person every round could be quite problematic. Maybe at will Message, as a toned down version of Sending? Or a competence bonus to Intimidate?

For the three extra skills, maybe Bluff, Listen and Spot.

Could just do the one target only thing like a warlock's charm has.

[noce]

Having half energy/half divine or untyped damage is a clear upgrade from standard Dragon Shaman. Depending on your game, this may be fine, since DS is generally considered quite underpowered, especially compared with something like the Dragonfire Adept. If you want to keep it more inline with standard DS, maybe reduce the damage dice (from d6 to d4?).

Either go half energy/half other, or full energy, but don't reduce the die size: it would result in a worse breath both when resisted and when unresisted.
And Dragon Shamans deserve all the love anyway.

[Darg]

Either go half energy/half other, or full energy, but don't reduce the die size: it would result in a worse breath both when resisted and when unresisted.
And Dragon Shamans deserve all the love anyway.

By RAW, they are the only ones with actual access to vigor as it is a class feature and not a general list like in dragon magic. They are given explicit permission to choose from the dragon magic list, but no other source gives permission to do it the other way around.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well based on what the other dragons give for their adaptation a small thing at will that either duplicates a low lvl spell like spider climb/feather fall but is at will. or they gain the ability to breather under water or walk on ice ect permanently

i would follow that train on thought and give them at 3rd lvl adaptation the ability to do an alter self (teifling transformation only) at will


Could just do the one target only thing like a warlock's charm has.

I like both of these suggestions. At-will charm person is pretty good and probably better than most of the other adaptations, yeah, but come on. It's a dragon shaman.

I'd also agree with the "go with regular fire damage" breath weapon. It's not the exact same, no, but it is closer to balanced. Fire is commonly resisted, but you're giving them a better-than-usual adaptation.

[Darg]

For the breath weapon why not adapt it for fun. Maybe do fire damage with a standard action or do half/half with a full-round action that increases the number of rounds you have to wait to use it again by 2. If the elemental damage is prevented in whole, even if the hellfire damage does damage, then any breath effect (like a breath feat) is prevented in full.

Personally, I think the ability should be the infernal aura, but for only 1d4 damage +1d4 per 4 levels after 3rd to a maximum of 5d4 at 19.

Dragon shaman as a whole I think needs 2 things: more adaptations and bonus metabreath feats. It would also be cool if some of the auras actually kept pace with the game like having capstone effects for your auras once you got to your +5 effect. Vigor could heal to full, resistance provides immunity to your element, energy shield could zap ranged attackers or spellcasters using ranged touch spells, power gives double bonus, presence reduces the opposing checks for the skills boosted by an equal amount, senses lets you roll twice on the skill checks and take the better result while if you roll your aura bonus or lower on an initiative roll you can reroll but must take the second result, and toughness should have its effect quadrupled.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Man, I had to go back and check out the Dragon Shaman. It's a cool idea, but I'd forgotten just how... lacklustre the class is. Wow.

Now I need to go find a DS handbook to make me feel not as bad about them.

[Darg]

Man, I had to go back and check out the Dragon Shaman. It's a cool idea, but I'd forgotten just how... lacklustre the class is. Wow.

Now I need to go find a DS handbook to make me feel not as bad about them.

They are a cool class for sure. They just remind me of a bard who gives up spellcasting for the ability to walk on ice without slipping and breathe fire a few times per day. I don't think giving them access to sorcerer spellcasting at 4th, and increasing spell level access every 3rd level to a maximum of 6th would be inappropriate. Especially when a 1 level dip and a feat basically gives you 4 scaling auras that basically replace the entire class.