Satyrs Lore 3.5

[arkol]

Hello everyone,

Is there any book in 3.5 that deals with Satyrs "societies" or troops?

[Thurbane]

Fey didn't get much in the way of official fluff support in 3E.

The Fey Compendium (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?226612-3-5-The-Fey-Compendium) has links and citations for most relevant stuff.

Some third party books might delve into Satyr society a bit more, but I'm not sure which books in particular.

If you can get access, the 2E Book of Humanoids and Monster Mythology books might have a sliver more "official" fluff for Satyrs.

[Bronk]

What little there is about fey societies amounts to:

-Seelie Fey are a thing... somewhere.

-Unseelie Fey are a thing... also somewhere.

-The Sidhe are a thing, on a fey demiplane.

-The Silthilar had a nice fey world somewhere, but it was destroyed long ago.

-The LeShay had a nice fey multiverse somewhere, but it was destroyed even longer ago.

Smaller groups would be: dryad groves, mirage mullahs, and similar fey might be found together.

The only fey I know of called out as being 'troops' are the Thorns.

[AlanBruce]

As others have mentioned, Fey fluff is not as easy to find within first party printed books. A pity too, since devils, demons, undead and aberrations are covered in great detail in their corresponding books.

When it comes to satyrs specifically, I would look at the greek myths where they came from: satyrs were always seeking revelry with nymphs and any occasional mortal that stumbled upon them. They also hung out with Dionysius a lot, due to the whole revelry aspect. I am certain there’s at least one D&D god that fits Dionysius’ persona if you don’t wish to use him.

As for them being militant and forming troops, I doubt satyrs ever attained that degree of discipline, given their care free nature. I vaguely recall they may or may not have bard advancement. So them using bard class features to bolster fey troops (such as the above mentioned Thorns), may not be an uncommon sylvan sight.

[Thurbane]

Bard is indeed their favored class, according to the MM/SRD entry.

Savage Species has a racial class for Satyrs, and says this in the way of fluff:


If nymphs and dryads represent the beauty of the natural world, satyrs represent its lust and fertility. Lovers and drinkers rather than fighters, satyrs are quite capable of defending themselves, their land, and their mates when needed. They also have keen senses that help keep them from being ambushed. Satyrs are good characters for players who like playing bards but want a more natural feel than a city-born entertainer.


Their Organization line says solitary, pair, band (3-5), or troop (6-11). No class levels are mentioned.

I would imagine the more martial-minded Satyrs tend to go into Ranger, or maybe Barbarian.

[Bronk]

They also hung out with Dionysius a lot, due to the whole revelry aspect. I am certain there’s at least one D&D god that fits Dionysius’ persona if you don’t wish to use him.

Satyrs do hang out with the Bacchae from the Fiend Folio, which fits with that idea. They're outsiders dedicated to revelry that have some satyrs with them if their group is large enough. Centaurs too, if the group is even larger, so both satyrs and centaurs must be immune to the whole Bacchae 'debauch' transformation power.

[Telonius]

I believe there's a half-satyr template somewhere in Dragon Magazine.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I believe there's a half-satyr template somewhere in Dragon Magazine.Which is weird, because progeny born of satyrs are satyrs. They explicitly are all male and reproduce with humanoid females of other races. I could see a strong creature adding a half-X template to a satyr, such as a dragon, but not the other way around.

Now, what happens when a satyr (always male satyr offspring) mates with a dryad (always female dryad offspring)?

[liquidformat]

Now, what happens when a satyr (always male satyr offspring) mates with a dryad (always female dryad offspring)?

A thorn?

So does that mean when a Satyr mates with a Nymph the male children and satyr and the female are nymph?

[hamishspence]

I believe there's a half-satyr template somewhere in Dragon Magazine.

There is.

Perhaps "full satyrs" can only be created when satyr breeds with nymph, and whenever a satyr breeds with a mortal, the resulting offspring is a half-satyr?

4E, at least, suggests that satyrs are "born of the union between satyr and nymph" - so that, at least, goes well with the above notion.

[ShurikVch]

Bard is indeed their favored class, according to the MM/SRD entry.

Savage Species has a racial class for Satyrs, and says this in the way of fluff:
Also, the same article:

Favored Class: Satyr. The best multiclassing choices for a satyr are bard and rogue.



I would imagine the more martial-minded Satyrs tend to go into Ranger, or maybe Barbarian.
Kyrotates - guardian of Caladbolg (Weapons of Legacy) is Bard 2/Fighter 2
Pan (Deities and Demigods) is Druid 20/Bard 10/Barbarian 10



I believe there's a half-satyr template somewhere in Dragon Magazine.

There is.

Perhaps "full satyrs" can only be created when satyr breeds with nymph, and whenever a satyr breeds with a mortal, the resulting offspring is a half-satyr?

4E, at least, suggests that satyrs are "born of the union between satyr and nymph" - so that, at least, goes well with the above notion.
Also, there is the Half-Satyr race in Kingdoms of Kalamar (Dangerous Denizens):

Half-satyrs are the unusual offspring of satyrs and seduced human females. Nine times out of ten, the child dies young (from natural occurrences or angry mobs). However, there is still that small chance that the child will reach adulthood.
As the hairy satyrs primarily haunt the northern forests (the Voldorwoods of Brandobia, the Brindonwood of northern Ek’Gakel, and the Khorren and Rytarr Woods of the Wild Lands), their mates and offspring are also found in these areas. Gakites and Fhokki females are the most common human parents to bear a half-satyr, followed by Brandobians. Kalamaran, Reanaarian, and Svimohzish half-satyrs do not seem to exist.
Half-satyrs are known as “vrastand” in Modern Brandobian, “koremo” in the regional Gakite tongue, and “lhokkarr” in Fhokki. In Sylvan, half-satyrs are called "meirbhurm."

Half-satyrs, in stark contrast to their fey parentage, are mostly serious minded, though the mischievous side of their personality often appears at the least likely of times. This seriousness likely comes from the hardships and taunting they suffered in their youth and adolescence, while they tried to come to terms with their unusual nature.
Half-satyrs stand about 5 feet tall and commonly weigh from 110 to 130 pounds. Half-satyrs are considered adults at age 18 and can live to be up to 130 years old. Half-satyrs are almost always male.
Half-satyrs are often loners and wanderers, taking to adventuring as a means of distraction from their lives. Their high Charisma and Dexterity makes them excellent bards and sorcerers. They also become druids, shamans, rangers or even fighters, though less frequently.
Their favored class is Bard
(Also, existence of this race means we can make a Half-Satyr Half-Satyr :smallamused:)


On almost unrelated note, there are also Satyrs in Warcraft - both as a race (Dark Factions, Monster Guide) with "racial class", and as a template (Manual of Monsters) with variable traits and LA +1

[Thurbane]

A thorn?

So does that mean when a Satyr mates with a Nymph the male children and satyr and the female are nymph?

Yeah, the reproduction mechanics of "always X gender" creatures can get downright weird. In D&D, the majority seem to reproduce with humans (or other humanoids), and the offspring will either be always monstrous parent race, or 50/50 to be either race.

FWIW, there was a half-nymph template presented in Dragon as well, not sure if it was the same issue as half-satyr? Just checked, yes it was. Along with the (infamous) half-ogre and half-minotaur templates.

Also, just checked Dragondex to see if Satyrs got an "Ecology of" article, but looks like they did not. :smallfrown:

[Crake]

Which is weird, because progeny born of satyrs are satyrs. They explicitly are all male and reproduce with humanoid females of other races. I could see a strong creature adding a half-X template to a satyr, such as a dragon, but not the other way around.

Now, what happens when a satyr (always male satyr offspring) mates with a dryad (always female dryad offspring)?

Where are you getting this bolded part from? Cause I've not read this anywhere before.

[Bullet06320]

one of the forgotten realms novels had a fiendish satyr pop up in it, not sure which one off the top of my head

Dragon 313 for the half saytr template

Dragon 155 The Ecology of the Satyr

[Thurbane]

Dragon 155 The Ecology of the Satyr

Nice - didn't see that one on Dragondex.

[Bullet06320]

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Satyr

check the reference list at the bottom, a lot of different sources mention saytrs, prehaps by hunting down the older original sources you can piece together a bigger picture

planar handbook pg 107 Anarchic Satyr

[afroakuma]

I do have a thread for this sort of thing, you know. :smalltongue: Let me know if there's anything I can help with.

[Blackhawk748]

A
Also, there is the Half-Satyr race in Kingdoms of Kalamar (Dangerous Denizens):

Their favored class is Bard
(Also, existence of this race means we can make a Half-Satyr Half-Satyr :smallamused:)


I love how,when looking for a weird half race, you have a pretty safe bet it's in KoK. I love that setting

[Thurbane]

I love how,when looking for a weird half race, you have a pretty safe bet it's in KoK. I love that setting

KoK has nothing on Bastards and Bloodlines in that regard. Dwarf/Gargoyle hybrids are one of the less weird/squicky combos, for instance. :smalltongue:

@ the OP: if you can access Dragon 155, the "Ecology of ..." is actually quite informative about their society and behaviour. I mean, it was written during an earlier edition, but most of the fluff still tracks. It is a more D&D-centric treatise than you are likely to get reading up on their real world mythological info.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Where are you getting this bolded part from? Cause I've not read this anywhere before.Classic literature. Satyrs are always male and dryads always female, and they breed true with human mortals. I might be wrong about that, but everything I'm familiar with says that's the case. Though I don't know everything, and Greek myth seems to change a lot depending on region, time period, and author.

[Thurbane]

I've said this many, many times, but I wish the 3E run had included more monster books in the vein of Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon, Drow of the Underdark etc.

The main ones I would have liked to see would be one for Fey, and one for Goblinoids/Orcs/"evil" humanoid races (akin to the 2E Book of Humanoids).

[hamishspence]

Classic literature. Satyrs are always male and dryads always female, and they breed true with human mortals. I might be wrong about that, but everything I'm familiar with says that's the case. Though I don't know everything, and Greek myth seems to change a lot depending on region, time period, and author.

Dragon 313 does say outright that half-nymphs are always female, and implies that half-satyrs are always male. It doesn't have to adhere to classic literature exactly.

Makes sense to me that "full satyrs" and "full nymphs" can only be produced when fey and fey breed.

In D&D, "fey + mortal = half-fey" is the norm, not the exception.

[Crake]

Classic literature. Satyrs are always male and dryads always female, and they breed true with human mortals. I might be wrong about that, but everything I'm familiar with says that's the case. Though I don't know everything, and Greek myth seems to change a lot depending on region, time period, and author.

The bolded part I'm not so sure, dryads were based on tolkien's entwives from what I understand, and, well, the ents themselves are proof that they don't breed always female. Satyrs always breeding true is also something I'm not too certain about, but I don't have any backing, more just that I've never read any mythological literature to suggest that being the case.

[hamishspence]

The bolded part I'm not so sure, dryads were based on tolkien's entwives from what I understand, and, well, the ents themselves are proof that they don't breed always female.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryad

Treants are what in D&D is based, loosely, on Ents and Entwives.


In fantasy literature, however, sometimes dryads are male (in C. S. Lewis's Prince Caspian, for example, and in Rick Riordan's Trials of Apollo series).

[Thurbane]

FWIW, this is what the "Ecology of..." article says on the matter:


There are no females of the race. Satyrs are born of a union between satyrs and dryads. Although satyrs frequently enjoy the company of females from other races (especially lonely human shepherdesses), for some reason the incidents of half-satyrs are extremely rare. This is good, for the typical satyr attempts to woo just about every female he meets.

The "Ecology of..." article for Dryads from Dragon 87 says this:


"Fine. Well, some of you may have heard about races of creatures that have but one sex. Dryads are one of them, as are sylphs, nymphs, and satyrs. Dryads can have children by human and elven fathers, and if they do then their children will always be dryad girls. Dryads can also have children by satyrs, which as you know are always male. The child of a dryad and a satyr is a dryad girl half the time, a satyr boy the other half. It hardly seems likely that dryads and satyrs descended from a common ancestor, so at best we chalk this all up to the perversity of magic, or the whim of the gods"

[ShurikVch]

Among the named published Satyrs, there are also:
Banba ("Wingclipper's Revange", Dungeon #132) Bard 4
Marsyas (On Hallowed Ground) 8 HD, proxy of Pan
Oyalui (Bastion of Broken Souls) 10 HD, Half-Dragon
Silenus (On Hallowed Ground) 10 HD, proxy of Dionysus


I love how,when looking for a weird half race, you have a pretty safe bet it's in KoK. I love that setting
Actually, race of Half-Satyrs was originally published in 1986 by TSR in the Dragon #109 - along with Half-Dryad race

Half-satyrs
The male offspring of human mothers and satyr fathers are called half-satyrs. These cross-breeds are rare, but perhaps not as rare as many would suppose. Scandalous as it seems, a woman who falls under the charming influence of a satyr's pipes may, some months later, find herself with a child whose paternity owes more to music than to marriage. Sometimes even the piping may be dispensed with; in many human communities near forests, one may hear gossip about a woman - naive maiden or bored matron - who meets secretly with a lover in the woods, not caring that he may be something slightly other than human.
In addition, the male child of a dryad and a male human will also be a half-satyr, developing all the abilities and traits of half-satyrs. Commonly, the dryad mother of a half-satyr leaves the infant in the care of a nearby human community - either the father's, or a druidic enclave, or some other convenient choice.
In infancy and early childhood, a half-satyr looks almost entirely human. His only distinguishing characteristics are a callousing of the skin of his feet, and a slight bend at the knees which gives him an odd gait. At this age, the half-satyr usually blends into the human community of his birth without difficulty.
However, as he reaches adolescence - generally between the ages of 11 and 13 - the half-satyr undergoes various physiological changes (even more so than his human peers). The calloused feet harden and darken until they more resemble hooves than human appendages. He develops a heavy beard and thick body hair (although not thick enough to be called fur). Finally, two short, knobby horns sprout from his upper forehead. A half-satyr who wishes to conceal his race always keeps his boots on and wears his hair down over his forehead.
At about this same age, almost all half-satyrs develop a deep interest in the forest and spend increasing amounts of time walking alone in the woods. Over the years, this interest turns into a profound and abiding yearning for the life of the forest. The half-satyr may also develop a corresponding dissatisfaction with his place in human society. There is no mystery about this unease. His physical "abnormalities" may all too often single him out for censure in his mother's community. His former playmates may shun or bully him; adults may frequently treat him as a freak or an embarrassment. This judgment may be exacerbated by the half-satyr's illegitimacy, in cultures where such a distinction is important. Also, the young teen-age half-satyr shows a romantic interest in girls and women earlier than his wholly human peers, which may bring more disapproval down upon his head. Consequently, it is no surprise that most half-satyrs eventually leave home to dwell deep in the forest. There, after a time, they often find a band of satyrs to live with - without even knowing that this is what they were seeking all along.

[Thurbane]

Hmm, seems the existence of the Half-Dryad contradicts the info the Ecology of the Dryad article.

Hardly surprising, since Dragon articles were submitted by the general public.

Personally, I prefer the info in the Ecology articles, since it tracks a bit closer to the real world mythological lore, from what I understand.

[loky1109]

Among the named published Satyrs, there are also:
Banba ("Wingclipper's Revange", Dungeon #132) Bard 4
Marsyas (On Hallowed Ground) 8 HD, proxy of Pan
Oyalui (Bastion of Broken Souls) 10 HD, Half-Dragon
Silenus (On Hallowed Ground) 10 HD, proxy of Dionysus

Redwood Oakblossom ("Lust", Dungeon #95) Half-fiend. Maybe Sorcerer 2.

He is son of dryad and hezrou.

I think half templates can used when humanoid parent has exceptionally strong spirit or heritage or something about.

[hamishspence]

Hmm, seems the existence of the Half-Dryad contradicts the info the Ecology of the Dryad article.


I figure it can be fudged - since it appears to be a character speaking rather than the "omniscient narrator".


The ecology articles don't always match published books (Ecology of the Chuul, compared to what's stated about chuuls in Lords of Madness, for example). So IMO they shouldn't always be taken 100% literally.

[liquidformat]

I have always loved the idea that Dryads are the sentient soul of an oak tree and it is also possibility that that same tree becomes a Treant if it gains enough magic. In that case Treants are always male and Dryads female since trees. They do not reproduce and can only wait for other oak trees to gain sentience and enough magic to become treants.

In general I prefer the idea that most fey are more or less embodiments of nature and incapable of reproducing. In that case Nymph and Satyr would instead be paired as they are both embodiments of lust. In a setting I am playing around with a corrupted Nymph becomes a succubus and succubi are satyr with half-fiend template.

Anyways I find it fun to play around with ideas like that.


I've said this many, many times, but I wish the 3E run had included more monster books in the vein of Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon, Drow of the Underdark etc.

The main ones I would have liked to see would be one for Fey, and one for Goblinoids/Orcs/"evil" humanoid races (akin to the 2E Book of Humanoids).

Yeah I have always wished they had a book focused around goblinoids and orcs, I think adding worgs and winter wolves to the same book would be an awesome choice.

[afroakuma]

I've said this many, many times, but I wish the 3E run had included more monster books in the vein of Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon, Drow of the Underdark etc.

The main ones I would have liked to see would be one for Fey, and one for Goblinoids/Orcs/"evil" humanoid races (akin to the 2E Book of Humanoids).

Yeah I've been trying to do some work on fleshing out the evil humanoids. How good it is, well... subjectivity :smalltongue:

[Thurbane]

I wonder how Hamadryads (https://web.archive.org/web/20120609082259/http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=728) figure in the D&D lore? I don't think they ever got an official 3E reprint. They didn't even make it into the 3rd party Tome of Horrors. I'm lead to believe they exist in 4E, and maybe 5E?


Yeah I've been trying to do some work on fleshing out the evil humanoids. How good it is, well... subjectivity :smalltongue:

That sounds promising. :smallsmile:

[ShurikVch]

Note about "Satyrs": Korred was updated to 3.5 in the Tome of Horrors, Revised

[Dalmosh]

Mongoose Publishing's Slayer's Guide to... series are well worth a look for several of the MM savage races. I have read Orcs, goblins and hobgoblins, but the series is pretty prolific... there is even a Slayer's Guide to Krakens.

The Slayers Guide to Orcs is quite good quality in particular. Better again is Fury in the Wastelands from Kingdoms of Kalamar (orc supplement), which I'd consider better quality than the WotC Races of books. My campaigns tend to be orc heavy as my table tends to just like them as a nonhuman race a lot more than elves and dwarves.

Fey are woefully under represented though, even in 3rd party stuff. I remember there was some quite interesting homebrew on the old Planewalker site metaphysically linking them to Eladrins, though that may have been drawing from 4th edition fluff. Fey are big players in my current campaign, but I basically had to write it wholecloth using Killoren as the template race.

[afroakuma]

Mongoose Publishing's Slayer's Guide to... series are well worth a look for several of the MM savage races. I have read Orcs, goblins and hobgoblins, but the series is pretty prolific... there is even a Slayer's Guide to Krakens.

The Slayers Guide to Orcs is quite good quality in particular. Better again is Fury in the Wastelands from Kingdoms of Kalamar (orc supplement), which I'd consider better quality than the WotC Races of books. My campaigns tend to be orc heavy as my table tends to just like them as a nonhuman race a lot more than elves and dwarves.

Fey are woefully under represented though, even in 3rd party stuff. I remember there was some quite interesting homebrew on the old Planewalker site metaphysically linking them to Eladrins, though that may have been drawing from 4th edition fluff. Fey are big players in my current campaign, but I basically had to write it wholecloth using Killoren as the template race.

Check out my latest homebrew thread for some oddball fey. I still have to do the big bad supertemplate, but that's probably a little ways off.

[Dalmosh]

Also worth mentioning that Manual of the Planes has optional rules for a transitive Plane of Faerie at the back, which is probably useful to consider.

Later editions of the game expanded heavily on this concept, and I find a lot of people are more willing to adopt this Feywild fluff than a lot of other changes to the game lore, as it fleshes out something covered poorly in 3.5.