Is artificer/cleric multiclass good?

[Corwin_of_Amber]

I have an artificer battlesmith level 5 with pretty good stats (13/13/14/17/16/9) and I have a good in-game reason to begin taking levels in cleric after finding a holy relic weapon for priests of Vulcan. I was thinking about going into forge cleric starting at level 6, forward. I have seen people say that fighter 5/cleric is an okay build. If I understand this correctly, artificer counts as 3 levels of spellcasting because I round up? That means I'm only losing 1 level of spells.

[OldTrees1]

Spellcasting is round down (PHB page 164) and will only affect spell slots not the highest level of spell you can know. So you will be 5 levels (2-3 spell levels) behind on spellcasting and 3 levels behind (1-2 spell slot levels) on spell slots compared to Cleric.

You would reach 3rd level spells at 10th level (instead of Battle Smith 9th or Cleric 5th) and then continue from there.

Honestly Artificer 6th gives you a new tier of infusions. Those are nice.


Yes Battlesmith / Cleric can be good. You will be upcasting lots of low level Cleric buff spells. However you lose out on some nice Artificer features.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

I have an artificer battlesmith level 5 with pretty good stats (13/13/14/17/16/9) and I have a good in-game reason to begin taking levels in cleric after finding a holy relic weapon for priests of Vulcan. I was thinking about going into forge cleric starting at level 6, forward. I have seen people say that fighter 5/cleric is an okay build. If I understand this correctly, artificer counts as 3 levels of spellcasting because I round up? That means I'm only losing 1 level of spells.

Depends what you are going for and how much optimization you are wanting.

If just playing for fun or being the healing/buffing caster you will be fine in that regard with your plan. The forge clerics's blessing of the forge ability will give you more to protection provided you use it on armor. More so you will be covering the need for basic non-magic item creation needs with Atrisan's Blessing though without knowing more of how your game is going I can't say how vital that will be. You will have some overlap in terms of proficiency and spells but I would use this as a means to free up your choices and get spells specific to each class.

Main thing is as an artificer are you okay with giving up access to the higher level items with the Replicable Magic Items ability? Around level 10 is when you start getting access to some of the more potent ones like Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Also this combination will depend on how you are using your Steel Defender. Cutting out levels of artificer does decrease its potency.

[Quietus]

Spellcasting is round down (PHB page 164) and will only affect spell slots not the highest level of spell you can know. So you will be 5 levels (2-3 spell levels) behind on spellcasting and 3 levels behind (1-2 spell slot levels) on spell slots compared to Cleric.

You would reach 3rd level spells at 10th level (instead of Battle Smith 9th or Cleric 5th) and then continue from there.

Honestly Artificer 6th gives you a new tier of infusions. Those are nice.


Yes Battlesmith / Cleric can be good. You will be upcasting lots of low level Cleric buff spells. However you lose out on some nice Artificer features.

Artificer is a specific exception to rounding down, per the class itself. However, the level 6 infusion tier is pretty attractive, you get some very nice options available there.

To the OP - Artificer has stuff that's basically great at every level. By multiclassing, your steel defender will lose HP (could be mitigated by Aid), and you lose out on infusions at 6, flash of genius at 7, subclass features at 9.. it keeps going like that for quite a while. So the real question is, what do you want to get out of Forge cleric? How do you conceptualize your characters, and how will multiclassing serve them? A one level dip gets you an extra magic item per day, heavy armor, and some first level cleric buffs - a very strong level, particularly if you can use the armor! But consider how taking more levels will shape your character, and if those abilities gained will mesh with what you want your character to do.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Artificer is a specific exception to rounding down, per the class itself. However, the level 6 infusion tier is pretty attractive, you get some very nice options available there.

To the OP - Artificer has stuff that's basically great at every level. By multiclassing, your steel defender will lose HP (could be mitigated by Aid), and you lose out on infusions at 6, flash of genius at 7, subclass features at 9.. it keeps going like that for quite a while. So the real question is, what do you want to get out of Forge cleric? How do you conceptualize your characters, and how will multiclassing serve them? A one level dip gets you an extra magic item per day, heavy armor, and some first level cleric buffs - a very strong level, particularly if you can use the armor! But consider how taking more levels will shape your character, and if those abilities gained will mesh with what you want your character to do.

Right now I'm playing as the part tank. I'm a hill dwarf (+1 int instead of wis) with 47 hp and sentinel. I'm using my steel defender to ready an action to help our fighter or paladin when they attack. It also gives me extra protection by forcing one opponent to always attack at disadvantage when we're both in combat with him.

The big thing I want from cleric is spirit guardians. It's a cool spell I've never gotten to use and I love the idea of just controlling everything around me while my teammates beat them into submission. I've never played higher than level 8 before, but this campaign (I hope) will go to at least 15 according to my DM. I just don't know if starting cleric would be nerfing myself a lot rather than just artificer since I have no high level play experience.

One other question I had that looked strong, at level 11 when I get spell storing item can I give it to my steel defender and have her use and concentrate on that spell using my bonus action?

[OldTrees1]

Artificer is a specific exception to rounding down, per the class itself. However, the level 6 infusion tier is pretty attractive, you get some very nice options available there.

Oh wow. The sidebar on Tasha's page 10 has what I would assume is a typo. It should say round down. Better ask your DM about that before multiclassing.

I do like how trading out 1 infusion known and learning 2 new infusions means you could have 3 6th level infusions. I just got there and I am using the Repelling Shield and Radiant Weapon (I decided to keep my 2nd level Bag of Holding).


The big thing I want from cleric is spirit guardians. It's a cool spell I've never gotten to use and I love the idea of just controlling everything around me while my teammates beat them into submission. I've never played higher than level 8 before, but this campaign (I hope) will go to at least 15 according to my DM. I just don't know if starting cleric would be nerfing myself a lot rather than just artificer since I have no high level play experience.

One other question I had that looked strong, at level 11 when I get spell storing item can I give it to my steel defender and have her use and concentrate on that spell using my bonus action?

Spirit Guardians will become available at 10th level (or 11th if you get the 6th level infusions). You could then upcast it to 4th level. So it would be 1-2 spell slot levels behind a single classed Cleric.

The Spell Storing Item feature is really nice. It has to pick a 1st/2nd level spell from the artificer list which limits it a bit. I don't know if the Steel Defender understands enough to activate the device. However one of the other PCs could.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Oh wow. The sidebar on Tasha's page 10 has what I would assume is a typo. It should say round down. Better ask your DM about that before multiclassing.

I do like how trading out 1 infusion known and learning 2 new infusions means you could have 3 6th level infusions. I just got there and I am using the Repelling Shield and Radiant Weapon (I decided to keep my 2nd level Bag of Holding).



Spirit Guardians will become available at 10th level (or 11th if you get the 6th level infusions). You could then upcast it to 4th level. So it would be 2 spell levels behind a single classed Cleric.

The Spell Storing Item feature is really nice. It has to pick a 1st/2nd level spell from the artificer list which limits it a bit. I don't know if the Steel Defender understands enough to activate the device. However one of the other PCs could.

I think you misunderstand. No matter what, you can only prepare spells of level/2 (rounded up) for any full caster class. But, when you multiclass, you add up your total levels (half for artificer, ranger, and paladin) to determine the level of the spell slots you have. So if I'm 10th level, I have 4th level spell slots, compared to a straight cleric that has 5th level spell slots. So I have the slots of an 8th level cleric and I can prepare 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells.

[OldTrees1]

I think you misunderstand. No matter what, you can only prepare spells of level/2 (rounded up) for any full caster class. But, when you multiclass, you add up your total levels (half for artificer, ranger, and paladin) to determine the level of the spell slots you have. So if I'm 10th level, I have 4th level spell slots, compared to a straight cleric that has 5th level spell slots. So I have the slots of an 8th level cleric and I can prepare 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells.

Sorry that line was meant to say 1-2 spell slot levels because at 10th you would be 1 spell level behind but at 11th level you would be 2 spell slot levels behind (I am assuming Tasha's sidebar has a typo). This was about you getting Spiritual Guardians and only being able to upcast it to 4th.

[Falconcry]

It is unlikely a typo in both Tasha’s and the Eberron source books. Artificer getting spells at first level rather then second is the reason why they are currently the only half caster that rounds up.

[OldTrees1]

It is unlikely a typo in both Tasha’s and the Eberron source books. Artificer getting spells at first level rather then second is the reason why they are currently the only half caster that rounds up.

Hmm. That makes it consistent, so it probably is not a typo. In that case the Artificer 5 / Cleric X is only ever 1 spell slot level behind Cleric.

[stoutstien]

Hmm. That makes it consistent, so it probably is not a typo. In that case the Artificer 5 / Cleric X is only ever 1 spell slot level behind Cleric.

Aye. They actually made a comment verifying that they round up and not down sometime back when the class first went live. Subtlety powerful.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

So now that we have the multiclass stacking down, does this compete with straight artificer at higher levels?

[stoutstien]

So now that we have the multiclass stacking down, does this compete with straight artificer at higher levels?

Definitely. The artificer has a solid progression most of time 1-20 with a feature always just a few levels away making it hard to diverge but clerics are pretty front loaded so it's more of a side grade most of the time. In the end it will function fine so having a PC you want to play will be a lot more enjoyable than one you are only player because it's slightly better.

*I'd probably go for a more even split in the end but I like SSI shenanigans.*

[Dork_Forge]

Dipping Cleric would work nicely but tbh I don't think it's a good idea to abandon Artificer completely in general, especially a Battle Smith. Your Steel Defender will age extremely poorly without more HP and you'll be missing out on great features. I'd personally just dip Forge 1 if you really want to do it and take more levels after you have the level 9 Arcane Jolt.

I'd also think about it on the character level:

You found a holy relic, that's bound to impact your life... But switching to Forge Cleric means entirely abandoning the path you were on. That seems a pretty drastic change, even for a relic.

[Waazraath]

I have an artificer battlesmith level 5 with pretty good stats (13/13/14/17/16/9) and I have a good in-game reason to begin taking levels in cleric after finding a holy relic weapon for priests of Vulcan. I was thinking about going into forge cleric starting at level 6, forward. I have seen people say that fighter 5/cleric is an okay build. If I understand this correctly, artificer counts as 3 levels of spellcasting because I round up? That means I'm only losing 1 level of spells.

If there is a compelling in-game reason, by all means, but if you ask me in all honesty if cleric is a good dip for arteficer: nope. As others have mentioned, especially for the Battlesmith it hurts to multiclass (due to steel defender), and additionally Arteficer is a very strong class that continues to get great goodies (infusion progression is strong, it's a halfcaster and has other cool class features), up to level 20 (one of the best capstones).

If you really want to multiclass into cleric to be able to use an item, I´d keep it to the minimum amount of levels.

[Bobthewizard]

If you found a magic item that only works for clerics, then a one level dip could be great. And forge cleric on an artificer is a cool theme.

But I'd go right back to artificer unless you have a plan. If you take more cleric levels, make sure you're happy with each level instead of a goal of a spell you'll get at level 10. Artificer 5/Cleric X is going to be worse than Artificer 5+x in tier 2.

If you've never played an artificer before, I'd just enjoy that ride this time, taking only the cleric level(s) you need to use the holy relic weapon.

[stoutstien]

If you found a magic item that only works for clerics, then a one level dip could be great. And forge cleric on an artificer is a cool theme.

But I'd go right back to artificer unless you have a plan. If you take more cleric levels, make sure you're happy with each level instead of a goal of a spell you'll get at level 10. Artificer 5/Cleric X is going to be worse than Artificer 5+x in tier 2.

If you've never played an artificer before, I'd just enjoy that ride this time, taking only the cleric level(s) you need to use the holy relic weapon.

Artificer can bypass class restrictions at lv 14 so it depends on estimated end lv.

The CD option forge domain get is so on point for artificers it's hard fo me to think about taking anything less if I was going to multiclass anyways.

[Quietus]

So now that we have the multiclass stacking down, does this compete with straight artificer at higher levels?

They'd both work, in theory. I would ask, what's your Wisdom score? Spirit Guardians is great, but if your Wis is only 13 or 14, that's going to be a very low DC, and you're sinking five levels into the class to use it. You'd be losing Arcane Jolt, as well as level 6/10 infusions, which means losing the opportunity to create +2 weapons/armor, plus some very cool Replicate Magic Item options. It's a trade-off I would only make if I had at least a 16 wis, personally. And if I went that route, I would probably make certain I took Cleric6 for the +1 AC and fire resistance, on top of everything else.

[Stangler]

Artificer is a specific exception to rounding down, per the class itself. However, the level 6 infusion tier is pretty attractive, you get some very nice options available there.

To the OP - Artificer has stuff that's basically great at every level. By multiclassing, your steel defender will lose HP (could be mitigated by Aid), and you lose out on infusions at 6, flash of genius at 7, subclass features at 9.. it keeps going like that for quite a while. So the real question is, what do you want to get out of Forge cleric? How do you conceptualize your characters, and how will multiclassing serve them? A one level dip gets you an extra magic item per day, heavy armor, and some first level cleric buffs - a very strong level, particularly if you can use the armor! But consider how taking more levels will shape your character, and if those abilities gained will mesh with what you want your character to do.

I agree with this. Artificer is always getting something nifty each level which makes it difficult to multi class away from. Also the low level bonuses need more artificer levels to keep scaling up.

On the cleric side there’s very little you get by going artificer.

Optimisation aside I like the theme a lot with the forge cleric. Maybe just a dip in cleric to get a little better spell progression and the ability to make stuff for you to craft with

[Sigreid]

Dipping at least 2 levels into forge cleric can get you heavier armor, bonus armor class, and the divine ability to turn gold into whatever you need for your weird artificer creations. :P

[Corwin_of_Amber]

They'd both work, in theory. I would ask, what's your Wisdom score? Spirit Guardians is great, but if your Wis is only 13 or 14, that's going to be a very low DC, and you're sinking five levels into the class to use it. You'd be losing Arcane Jolt, as well as level 6/10 infusions, which means losing the opportunity to create +2 weapons/armor, plus some very cool Replicate Magic Item options. It's a trade-off I would only make if I had at least a 16 wis, personally. And if I went that route, I would probably make certain I took Cleric6 for the +1 AC and fire resistance, on top of everything else.

I do have 16 wis. My stats are Str:13 Dex:13 Con:14 Int:18 Wis:16 Cha:9.


Dipping Cleric would work nicely but tbh I don't think it's a good idea to abandon Artificer completely in general, especially a Battle Smith. Your Steel Defender will age extremely poorly without more HP and you'll be missing out on great features. I'd personally just dip Forge 1 if you really want to do it and take more levels after you have the level 9 Arcane Jolt.

I'd also think about it on the character level:

You found a holy relic, that's bound to impact your life... But switching to Forge Cleric means entirely abandoning the path you were on. That seems a pretty drastic change, even for a relic.


Artificer can bypass class restrictions at lv 14 so it depends on estimated end lv.

The CD option forge domain get is so on point for artificers it's hard fo me to think about taking anything less if I was going to multiclass anyways.

A 2 level dip does seem like a nice starting point. I think I'll do that. Thanks for the insights.

[AHF]

I do have 16 wis. My stats are Str:13 Dex:13 Con:14 Int:18 Wis:16 Cha:9.





A 2 level dip does seem like a nice starting point. I think I'll do that. Thanks for the insights.

Bear in mind that with a 13 strength, you won’t get access to the very best armors unless you have some other way of mitigating the 15 strength requirement like gauntlets of ogre power or mithril, etc. Artificers can reliably get the gauntlets but if you are envisioning adding plate armor you may need to wait a bit.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Bear in mind that with a 13 strength, you won’t get access to the very best armors unless you have some other way of mitigating the 15 strength requirement like gauntlets of ogre power or mithril, etc. Artificers can reliably get the gauntlets but if you are envisioning adding plate armor you may need to wait a bit.

*Laughs in dwarven*

I'm good.

[JackPhoenix]

Hmm. That makes it consistent, so it probably is not a typo. In that case the Artificer 5 / Cleric X is only ever 1 spell slot level behind Cleric.

They've changed that in playtest after it was pointed out that with the normal multiclassing rules, Artificer 1 multiclassing into non-full caster would actually lose spell slots.

[OldTrees1]

They've changed that in playtest after it was pointed out that with the normal multiclassing rules, Artificer 1 multiclassing into non-full caster would actually lose spell slots.

Nice. That is very helpful context. If they changed it based on feedback, it must be intentional.