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Theli
2007-11-16, 01:07 PM
I'm starting this thread to discuss all the silly tricks you can do in core 3.5 that aren't readily obvious (or perhaps just not often utilized.) That give characters some kind of capability that you wouldn't expect. (Often through low-cost items that hardly anyone ever looks at.)

Stuff with a little utility, like getting one rank in Perform: Wind Instruments and grabbing the Pipes of Sounding, combined with some stealth or other skulduggery. (Caster Level 2 Ghost Sound at will for 1800 gp.) Or casting Animate Object on bolts to auto-reload and retrieve themselves. (Hands-free reloading. Can be made permanent.) Or casting (Permanent) Light on an Ioun Stone. (Hands-free torch.)

And really simple stuff, like warming, and enhancing, tea with Prestidigitation. Or pretending to be a wizard with a Hand of the Mage.

Or possibly broken stuff, like maxing cross-class Use Magic Device along with a couple of feats and/or synergies and/or magic items. (Here's to you, Giacomo.) Or using candle of invocation to gate a powerful entity. (Without getting into questionable infinite gate abuse.) Or maybe using an Eversmoking Bottle with a character build geared for sightless combat. (Again, Giacomo.) Or even Diplomacy twinking for instant hostile conversion. (Despite the capability for the DM to compensate for the badly written rules.)

Or techniques that have just been played out, like a MMM in a Rope Trick. Or just ways to beat them. (Really high spot check or See Invisible + really high jump or flight + Dispel Magic + rules lawyering.)

And then you have the kinds of things people buy if they have some gold to spare. Such as feather tokens. (Instant, and temporary, 50 gp anchor, 300 gp bird messenger, 200 gp wind fan, 450 gp swan boat, 400 gp tall oak tree (the sole exception with a permanent token effect), or 500 gp animated grappling whip.)

To keep things simple, in case more than a few people actually read this thing, please follow these rules:
1. Number any new contributions, in bold, and check if the contribution has been suggested already.
2. If there is a rules argument, briefly explain your position and let it drop. Please keep RAW/RAI/RAR debates to a minimum.
3. When contributing some information on a particular trick or technique, state it's number in bold.
4. Keep off-topic ranting/discussion to a minimum. On-topic is anything core 3.5 that a person new to DnD may not be aware of and is mildly interesting as a trick or technique. Core is defined as the core 3. (PHB, DMG, MM. Not any of the core sequels.)

To get it started, here is a list of everything I mentioned in this post:

1. Pipes of Sounding
2. Animated bolts
3. Lighted Ioun Stone
4. Prestidigitate tea
5. Hand of the Mage fakir
6. Cross-class Use Magic Device twinking
7. Candle of Invocation Gating
8. Eversmoking Bottle build
9. Diplomatic hostile conversion
10. MMM + Rope Trick
12. MMM + Rope Trick Countermeasures
13. Feather Token utility

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 01:15 PM
14. Immovable Rod. This thing is all kinds of useful. Use one to pin a door in place. Tie a rope to it and climb down something. Then, at the bottom, speak the command word so it falls to you to recover it. Position one low to the ground in a narrow hallway and it becomes a tripline. Cast invisibility on it (works on objects) and put it at any hight for a clothesline type blockade vs charging ceatures. Get 2 of them with different command words, and you can "climb" through space, simply by holding one in each hand, disengaging one, moving it above the other, and engaging it again. Get 4 and anchor the 4 corners of a piece of cloth with metal grommets in it. Its a hammock at any height with no need for poles. Suspend it way above the floor at ceiling level for an ambush platform.

Attilargh
2007-11-16, 01:25 PM
Immovable rod doesn't have a command word, only a button. You have to rig some string to it to press the button if you want a remote-control one.

Alex12
2007-11-16, 01:26 PM
15.Flesh to Stone, Transmute Rock to Mud, and a river.

16.PaO an Earth Elemental into a stone bridge over a chasm, then put an AMF trap at the center of the bridge.

Mr. Friendly
2007-11-16, 01:29 PM
17. 1st level: spend 100gp (or more or less as applicable) to buy 2000 5cp 10' ladders. Remove the rungs from 2000 5cp 10' ladders. Sell the 4000 10' poles for 2.5sp each. Net profit: 900gp. (A little more if you want to debate the extra 2 lbs. of wood leftover from each ladder, which would result in an additional 2 gp by selling it as firewood; you also recoup the 100gp initial investment, so your total would be 1002gp; you can then repeat this an infinite number of times to have infinite wealth at level 1)

mostlyharmful
2007-11-16, 01:29 PM
Hat of Disguise. 1800gp to be anyone for as long as you want, combine it with some ranks in disguise to change your voice and a campaign can be utterly derailed in minutes.

Sheep Trap detecters. Cheap and post-fireball very flavourful. No more need to worry if the rogues rolled a 1.

Alex12
2007-11-16, 01:31 PM
19Infinite-ammo Commoner Railgun, using quarterstaves and clubs as ammo:smallsmile:

Theli
2007-11-16, 02:00 PM
Re: 15. As per spell description:


This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud.

And a stone statue, intact or otherwise, is far from natural.

Re: 16. Depends on the source of the earth elemental. If it's summoned, the summon will run out. If it's called...


Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature).

Earth elementals have no real immunity to falling damage. They would have to be tricked into it. (I just want to polymorph you into a bridge so we can get across. I'll polymorph you right back safely. Honest!) Or you'd have to beat a hefty fortitude save. Either way, the elemental might not assist you in the follow-up for this trap. (Beating down those who triggered it.)

Re: 17. Arguments can be made about the value of a split ladder as two 10-foot poles. These are poles with holes cut into them and may not have the same quality as regular timber. That said, yeah...this was a classic 3.5 mistake. Horrible.

Re: 18b. Fellow party members make a more feasible source of such trap detectors.

Re: 19. The assumption is made that no city, or location, has an infinite, or even arbitrarily large, number of items. While it may be free to obtain, this is due to the player's own effort (Picking a suitable stick off the ground.) ...and the absurdity of charging for these items. Still, could have been dealt with better. Another classic mistake.

Ganurath
2007-11-16, 02:12 PM
19. Stone to Flesh, Polymorph Any Object to turn the inert flesh into a regular corpse of your choosing (I prefer elves and orcs for this.) and Animate Dead without the hassle of killing for premium corpses.

20. Flesh to Stone, Stone Shape, and Stone to Flesh for the ultimate plastic surgery. I'm not sure how far your DM will allow abuse, but I see a great way to fight aging penalties for non-Monks/Druids.

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 02:12 PM
Re: 17. Arguments can be made about the value of a split ladder as two 10-foot poles. These are poles with holes cut into them and may not have the same quality as regular timber. That said, yeah...this was a classic 3.5 mistake. Horrible.

It could also be argued that since the ladder is held together by small pieces of cord (such as hemp, a naturally occuring plant fiber). That way, the 10 ft poles are not marred, except for some minor grooving. They would still be perfectly functioning and structurally sound. I mean, com'on, how often do you think you'd find a perfectly smooth round 10' pole for only 2.5s.



Re: 19. The assumption is made that no city, or location, has an infinite, or even arbitrarily large, number of items. While it may be free to obtain, this is due to the player's own effort (Picking a suitable stick off the ground.) ...and the absurdity of charging for these items. Still, could have been dealt with better. Another classic mistake.

Ah, but the core rules don't insinuate that. They only make note of the cost and time to create is a function of base PHB cost. Therefore, I can pull quarterstaffs out of my butt, or have them burst forth from my fingertips at a thought. Why I would want to do either is beyond me though.

And as for the commoner railgun, you'd have to have them all slap each other, so they would go into combat, roll initiative, and be able to ready actions. You can't ready actions out of combat rounds. Tell me how much sense that makes. I wonder if an item passed along on a commoner railgun would make a sonic boom. That would be neat.

The Glyphstone
2007-11-16, 02:18 PM
21. ???

22. Profit!

23. (or 21). Dust of Sneezing+Choking, plus an Amulet of Adaptation. A cursed item with actual utility!

Ganurath
2007-11-16, 02:24 PM
23b. Goblin on a string: Capture one of the cannon fodder opponents alive, tie some rope around their neck, and prod them along at crossbow-point. Odds are any traps they trigger won't have the party in the radius.

Bender
2007-11-16, 02:26 PM
24 Pipes of the Sewers: 1d3 rat swarms as often as you want for 1,150 gp. A low level bard with decent cha has no chance of failing the DC 10 perform the first time/day, afterwards it becomes DC 15.
It is much better than the 2nd level spell summon swarm since you have full control over multiple swarms. And apart from summoning EL4 worth, it's perfect for springing traps.
There have to be rats nearby, so you are dependent on the DM for it to work

Theli
2007-11-16, 02:27 PM
I mean, com'on, how often do you think you'd find a perfectly smooth round 10' pole for only 2.5s.

Probably the reason for costing 2 silver. :D (That's a bit much for a simple piece of timber, don't you think?)

Still, no arguments. Pretty much everything you said is valid by RAW, though far from valid by RAI, obviously.

Re: 23. (or 21). Dust of Sneezing+Choking, plus an Amulet of Adaptation.
Now THAT'S a neat trick.

SoD
2007-11-16, 02:31 PM
Not really a core trick, but something fun to do:

24 find an opponant with snatch arrows, put some soverign glue on an arrow and fire it at him. He grabs the arrow, and...voila! Your reoccuring villian has an arrow stuck to his hand!

Theli
2007-11-16, 03:10 PM
25 Basic (and suboptimal) Core melee reach cheese build (Much like this, though not half-ogre: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html)
Half-Orc Fighter 9
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Disarm, Combat Reflexes
Let enemy approach to melee, trip as they cross outer range. (Or disarm if it makes sense to.) If successful or not, on your turn move 5 feat to the side, attack, move away. (Intended to exploit the chain's range as much as possible.)
Pick up barbarian levels for temporary boosts of strength and fast movement.
Pick up great cleave to lay waste to every minor opponent in a 10 radius area.
Get enlarge person for greater range.

Again, this is suboptimal. I know it's suboptimal. It's just meant to give an example of melee reach cheese.

zaei
2007-11-16, 03:18 PM
26 Alchemical Substance Zeppelins.
Alchemical substances that come in flasks weigh 1 pound. Empty flasks weigh 1.5 pounds. Enough alchemist's fire in a light enough container will levitate, and you can conquer the skies!

EL HUEVADOR
2007-11-16, 03:31 PM
And really simple stuff, like warming, and enhancing, tea with Prestidigitation.

HE'S FIRE NATION!

Jannex
2007-11-16, 03:31 PM
26 Alchemical Substance Zeppelins.
Alchemical substances that come in flasks weigh 1 pound. Empty flasks weigh 1.5 pounds. Enough alchemist's fire in a light enough container will levitate, and you can conquer the skies!

Of course, you're just asking for the whole thing to Hindenberg. Alchemist's Fire, ya know. :smallwink:

Hyfigh
2007-11-16, 03:38 PM
27 Wall of Iron + Fabricate
28 Wall of Stone + Stone to Flesh

SoD
2007-11-16, 03:40 PM
Your arms been chopped off?

29 Flesh to stone on both peices. Pick up the broken off bit and hold it to the stump, cast stone to flesh, and poof! They're whole again.

30 Alternatively, awaken a statue, then stone to flesh.

31 Or, animate object on a statue (which, from memory, puts it under your controll, right?) then stone to flesh. And create a slave market!

zaei
2007-11-16, 03:58 PM
Of course, you're just asking for the whole thing to Hindenberg. Alchemist's Fire, ya know. :smallwink:

Make it with Holy Water, and Kamikaze into the necromancer's hide out, and make him cry =]

Chronos
2007-11-16, 04:00 PM
23b. Goblin on a string: Capture one of the cannon fodder opponents alive, tie some rope around their neck, and prod them along at crossbow-point. Odds are any traps they trigger won't have the party in the radius.On the contrary: Odds are that any traps they trigger will have the party in the radius, but won't have the goblin in the radius. Who do you think put those traps there to begin with? And now you're giving him free access to the triggers, with all of the party conveniently right behind him?

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-16, 04:02 PM
27 Wall of Iron + Fabricate
28 Wall of Stone + Stone to Flesh

28b Wall of Iron + Fabricate (nails) + Telekinesis. Unless your DM is keenly aware of the max damage by spell level tables, you do an awful lot of damage awful fast.

tainsouvra
2007-11-16, 04:08 PM
28b Wall of Iron + Fabricate (nails) + Telekinesis. Unless your DM is keenly aware of the max damage by spell level tables, you do an awful lot of damage awful fast. Telekinesis doesn't really work that way.
Violent Thrust:
Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-16, 04:12 PM
29 Get the cursed necklace. Go grapple the enemy, and put it on 'em. They be dead.

Jannex
2007-11-16, 04:13 PM
Telekinesis doesn't really work that way.

So you could load up all the nails onto a tarp, and use Telekinesis on the tarp, raining them down onto your enemies in an area of effect?

tainsouvra
2007-11-16, 04:22 PM
So you could load up all the nails onto a tarp, and use Telekinesis on the tarp, raining them down onto your enemies in an area of effect? Unless your DM was exceptionally generous, a rain of non-propelled nails would just be annoying. The tarp would fling with potentially-damaging force, but the nails would just scatter wildly.

Ganurath
2007-11-16, 04:37 PM
On the contrary: Odds are that any traps they trigger will have the party in the radius, but won't have the goblin in the radius. Who do you think put those traps there to begin with? And now you're giving him free access to the triggers, with all of the party conveniently right behind him?It worked fine for my- Ah, now I remember! The goblin is unconcious, and being thrown at trap triggers before being pulled back with the rope.

Hyfigh
2007-11-16, 04:49 PM
30 Summon Monster 7 for a Djinni. Have him use his major creation ability to create vegitable matter. (Similar in purpose to 28)

tyckspoon
2007-11-16, 04:49 PM
Unless your DM was exceptionally generous, a rain of non-propelled nails would just be annoying. The tarp would fling with potentially-damaging force, but the nails would just scatter wildly.

If you really want to make it work, use some weak string to tie all the nails into one bundle. They are now one object, at least as far as common use of the term is concerned; people who insist you can only disintegrate one brick at a time in a wall will disagree. Violent thrust the bundle, such that the acceleration and rubbing against the nails breaks the string. You now have a thousand individual objects, all accelerated. Of course, a sensible DM at this point is probably going to check against the damage of hail-of-needle spells and just give the thing 3d4 or so damage anyway.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-16, 04:55 PM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned the peasant rail gun yet.

All you need is as many peasants as you can get, the more the better. Seeing as how they're fairly poor compared to the average adventuring group you can afford a few hundred. A few thousand would be better though. Anyway, line up all these peasants with the line pointing towards their target. Have them all ready an action to hand an object to the person next to them. As soon as you give the object, preferably a large chunk of metal, to the first person his readied action goes off and he hands it to the person next to him, which repeats the whole way down the line. The important thing to remember is that this all will take place over a 6 second period of time and if you manage to get 2000 peasants, each occupying the standard 5 foot square the projectile will be traveling at about 508 m/s, which is amazingly quick given that the projectile could easily weigh over 10 pounds. The shock alone would probably kill the last few peasants in the line.

The downside is finding enough peasants to go along with this and finding a straight, clear area to do it with.

MobiusKlein
2007-11-16, 05:01 PM
31) 1 level Wiz, X levels Rogue. Get a flying familiar that is quiet. Make invisible, and have it fly behind your target, threating it. Move up, and you are flanking.
But never actually have the familiar attack, so it stays invisible.

MCerberus
2007-11-16, 05:03 PM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned the peasant rail gun yet.

All you need is as many peasants as you can get, the more the better. Seeing as how they're fairly poor compared to the average adventuring group you can afford a few hundred. A few thousand would be better though. Anyway, line up all these peasants with the line pointing towards their target. Have them all ready an action to hand an object to the person next to them. As soon as you give the object, preferably a large chunk of metal, to the first person his readied action goes off and he hands it to the person next to him, which repeats the whole way down the line. The important thing to remember is that this all will take place over a 6 second period of time and if you manage to get 2000 peasants, each occupying the standard 5 foot square the projectile will be traveling at about 508 m/s, which is amazingly quick given that the projectile could easily weigh over 10 pounds. The shock alone would probably kill the last few peasants in the line.

The downside is finding enough peasants to go along with this and finding a straight, clear area to do it with.

That doesn't work for 1 reason - no matter who you aim it at, you hit a catgirl.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-16, 05:07 PM
That doesn't work for 1 reason - no matter who you aim it at, you hit a catgirl.

Considering the forces involved I would say it would pass through the catgirl leaving only a vaguely discolored smudge and a fine red mist in the air. This is a sacrifice I'm willing to make as it would still probably hit the target, hopefully. Although peasants aren't known for their rail gun accuracy.

brian c
2007-11-16, 05:19 PM
Immovable rod doesn't have a command word, only a button. You have to rig some string to it to press the button if you want a remote-control one.

Make a custom magic item and attach it to the Immovable Rod (sovereign glue or however)

Activation: on command word (unlimited)
Effect: some very small movement that presses the button.

Since that's not even a magical effect (other than activating from a command word) it should cost very little. And presto, a command-word-activated Immovable Rod.

MCerberus
2007-11-16, 05:22 PM
Considering the forces involved I would say it would pass through the catgirl leaving only a vaguely discolored smudge and a fine red mist in the air. This is a sacrifice I'm willing to make as it would still probably hit the target, hopefully. Although peasants aren't known for their rail gun accuracy.

Egads man, your railgun is enough to rip a stone from the material plane, kill a catgirl on their plane, then form a wormhole back to hit your target!

Don't forget to use a 100 lbs adamantite rock for more momentum.

Stormzen
2007-11-16, 05:26 PM
I don't remember exactly where or who, but somebody posted this.


Lots of money with a Wiz11 or higher with max ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) and the spells Fabricate and Wall of Iron.

Step 1: Cast Wall of Iron, creating a wall 55ft*5ft*2in=45.83cu ft of iron. This step costs 50gp in material components.

Step 2: Cast Fabricate, converting 11 cu ft per cast into masterwork daggers. With 14 ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) and a wizard's crazy Int, you can't fail. Repeat until only 1-2 cu ft of iron remains. (4 casts). This consumes your 5th-level slots for the day, and takes 4 and a half minutes.
The density of iron is 491lbs/cu ft. Thus 44 cu ft of iron weighs 21604 lbs. A dagger weighs 1 lb. Thus we create 21604 masterwork daggers, which sell for 151 gp each. That's 3,262,204 gp. Over 3 million gp. At level 11.

Step 3: Profit!

Teleportation will solve the economic problems; by selling to the entire world instead of just the local pawnshop, you can easily find a market. And then spend your money to set up lots of local branch offices, with people capable of casting Sending or whatever to keep you informed of how business is going and what local demands are. Use this to track warfare and sell your weapons wherever they are needed. You probably won't be able to sell the maximum output of a level 20 wizard, but you'll make a very, very good profit, not to mention a lot of friends in high places if you sell at a bit below normal price.

20th level wizard, without using any slots above 6th level.

Volume of Iron = 5*5*20*(5/12)=208.33cu ft.
Castings of Fabricate = 10 (use 6th level slots to fill as required)
Fabricate time = 20 minutes per day
Mass of Iron Fabricated = 200*491=98200 lbs.
Number of Mwk Daggers = 98200
Payout = 98200*151=14,828,200 gp
Profit = 14,827,700 gp. Per day. Mansion of the Planes anyone?
And this.


Eschew Materials feat + Major Creation.

There's no book value listed for either Osmium or it's antimatter counterpart. Just summon Anti-Osmium to the limit of your casting ability in contact with the critter. (Point of order: given an Earth-equivalent density, and assuming it has the DR of rock at all points, it takes a 17th level caster to summon enough Anti-Osmium to fragment the planet. Imagine what a 50th could do.)

EDIT:
Osmium is 22610 kg/cubic meter. A 50th level caster summons 50 cubic feet, or a cube 3.7 feet to a side. This converts over to be roughly 15.25 cubic meters, for a final density of 344,802 kg. 1 gram of antimatter produces roughly a 43 kiloton reaction (doubling once the matter is added into the equation, so the detonation of 1g of AM in contact with 1g of matter is 86kt). We have 344,802,500 grams of anti-osmium, for a total yield of 29,653,015,000,000 kilotons. (these are metric tons of 1,000kg each, for a total of 29,653,015,000,000,000 kiloGRAMS of TNT) 1 lb of TNT does 3d6 damage, or, converting over, 0.454 kg of TNT does 3d6 damage. So, dividing 29,653,015,000,000,000 by 0.454 yields 65,315,011,013,215,859 increments of 3d6. So, multiply by three, and get 195,945,033,039,647,577d6 damage.

Congratulations, you've just done 195 quadrillion damage minimum. Your average damage is 685,807,615,638,766,519 hp.

685 quadrillion hp damage. That ought to blow through most DR. And it's not fire damage (even though TNT is usually thought of that way). It's just plain old force damage.

AslanCross
2007-11-16, 07:00 PM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned the peasant rail gun yet....

My catgirl just died. :( That sounds ridiculous, though.

Forrestfire
2007-11-16, 08:37 PM
32. I encountered this one on the WotC boards a while back:

This is a brilliant way to get a LOT of power. I'm assuming that Tyrany works the same as Leadership, since I don't have 7th Sea. I'm also assuming that you're not using hte Wealth system, and are instead using the good-old GP/credits system. (I'll be calling them GP for simplicity's sake.) For the sake of SOME balance, Extra Followers will only apply to ONE Leadership. And finally, I don't think Competence bonuses stack, but that's okay. I am, however, assuming your DM will see the sense in letting your sidekick and your cohort's bonuses stack, sinse it's sharing of expertise and by definition they have different expertise.

THE CHARACTER AND HIS HELPERS

The Character

First, you are any evil human -- probably lawful evil. Max out INT and CHA. At the expense of EVERYTHING. CHA needs to provide as close to +9 as you can get, and INT needs to go as high as it can.

Classes:

Smart 10/Exemplar 1/UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 4/X 1//Cleric 1/Marshall 1/Wizard 17

Your domains are Artifice and Craft, and your Skill Mastery is Craft (Mechanical). For Warrior and Expert, your skills include Craft (Mechanical) and Diplomacy. Aura is Motivate Intelligence.

Feats:

Level 1: Artistic Crafter (Craft [Mechanical]), Engineer

In whatever order you prefer, barring prerequisites

Skill Focus (Craft [Mechanical])
Master Crafter
Leadership
Undead Leadership
Tyrant
Minions
Sidekick
Extra Followers
Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical])
Handy
Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical])
Ordinary Past
Student of the Arts (Craft [Mechanical])

This leaves you with an outrageous number of bonus feats from Smart. Take whatever you think would be helpful.

The Cohort:

Classes:

Human UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 8/UA Spellcaster 1/Field Marshall 5//Marshall 1/Wizard 17.

Background is Dillente, or whatever that +6 to Rep one is. Skills are Diplomacy and Knowledge (Tactics). Aura is Motivate Intelligence.

Feats:

Skill Focus (Craft)
Personal Firearms Proficiency
Fame x 14

EDIT #2A: The Sidekick:

Classes:

Human UA Expert 4/UA Warrior 8/UA Spellcaster 1/Field Marshall 5//Marshall 1/Wizard 17.

Background is Dillente, or whatever that +6 to Rep one is. Skills are Diplomacy and Knowledge (Tactics). Aura is Motivate Intelligence.

Feats:

Skill Focus (Craft)
Personal Firearms Proficiency
Fame x 14

EDIT 2B: Followers/Minions:

Your followers are all Human. In the case of your undead followers, they all have the Corpse template.

Classes:

Their classes, depending on their levels, are below. In parentheses is the number of each you get, assuming a Leadership score in each of 25.

Level 1: UA Expert 1 (540)
Level 2: UA Expert 2 (52)
Level 3: Dedicated 3 (28)
Level 4: Dedicated 3/UA Expert 1 (16)
Level 5: Dedicated 3/UA Expert 2 (8)
Level 6: Dedicated 5/UA Expert 1 (8)

In the case of Dedicated, they all take Empathy, then Improved Aid Another, then Improved Aid Another. Skills always include Craft (Mechanical). All skill points are spent on bringing it up to highest rank for that level. Obviously, this means the Expert levels are taken last.

Feats:

Feats in parentheses are to be taken after the first two.

Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical])
Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical])

(Skill Focus [Craft (Mechanical)])
(Master Crafter)
(Builder)

If the follower is a Dedicated 3, substitute Cosmipolitan (Craft [Mechanical]) for Mercantile Background.

PROCEDURE, PART ONE

Every second of your and your lackeys' spare time is dedicated to making money. A good way to do this, once you, your cohort and your sidekick can cast flesh to salt (and later mass flesh to salt) is to get cows, change them into salt, and sell the salt for the going price. Your lower-downs can make wind-up toys or something.

The point of this is to get...

Brace yourself...

19 million GP.

Yes, THAT much. Please pick up your jaw; with enough lackeys working around the clock, it's doable. And trust me, you have enough lackeys

Besides, you're never gonna really be buying any, you know, EQUIPMENT or anything, aside from stat-boosting items. Just tell your party to wait and see, and have good faith.

Or just show them this build, whichever.

PROCEDURE, PART TWO

Now, you have 19 million GP. But what to DO with it? The answer:

Spend every copper of it on raw materials.

Once you've done that, here's what you do: go to a plane where time goes very, very fast in comparison to the Material Plane.

EDIT #2: I have found a way to cut down on this time even MORE by adding the Minions and Sidekick feats from d20 Past. I am assuming that Field Marshall bonuses from two sources stack, because it makes sense game-wise. Your DM results will vary.

Every day, this is your procedure:

--You, your cohort and your sidekick cast fabricate until both of you run out of spells.

--All three of you activate your Motivate Intelligence auras.

--You announce your Craft (Mechanical) check.

--Your cohort and your sidekick use their August Leadership ability to add 48+CHA (Rep+CHA) to your check. (They don't fail this because he's got at least 9 ranks in Diplomacy.)

--All of your first and second level followers Aid Another you, for (assuming your Leadership, Tyrant, Minions and Undead Leadership scores are all at least 25) a +1480 bonus on the check. (Note: None of your follower's checks fail, because their feat bonus is at least +5, plus at least four ranks in Craft [Mechanical]. Add in the 1 from the lowest possible roll, and they get a 10.)

--All of your third and fourth level followers Improved Aid Another you, for (again, assuming scores of 25) another +165.

--All of your fifth and sixth level followers Improved Aid Another x2 you, for another +80.

--You take 20, thanks to Artistic Crafter.

Your check total is:

23 Ranks
Taking 20, Artistic Crafter
+1d4, Handy
+2, Skill Focus (Craft [Mechanical])
+2, Master Crafter
+3, Skill Emphasis (Craft [Mechanical])
+2, Mercantile Background (Craft [Mechanical])
+2, Ordinary Past
+2, Student of the Arts (Craft [Mechanical])
+CHA mod, your aura
+Cohort's CHA mod, cohort's aura
+Cohort's CHA mod, cohort's August Leadership
+48, cohort's August Leadership
+Sidekick's CHA mod, sidekick's aura
+Sidekick's CHA mod, sidekick's August Leadership
+48, sidekick's August Leadership
+80, followers' Improved Aid Another x2
+165, followers' Improved Aid Another
+1480, followers' Aid Another
=
+1917 total check result.

Now, the difference in Craft DC between a wooden spoon and a jet engine is 25. As such, me and a fellow player/DM decided that the magnitude of complexity from a wooden spoon to a jet engine (DC 30) is about the same as from a jet engine to our target object. The conversation is funny enough to be repeated below.


Me: Would you say that the difference in magnitude between crafting a spoon and crafting a jet engine is abut the same difference in magnitude between crafting a jet engine and crafting, say, a __________?

Me: A wooden spoon, mind.

(pause)

Me: Yes, I know it's stupid, shut up.

Me: Just answer it.

Her: hm.

Her: i would say not quite as magnificent.

Me: ...

Her: at least the jet engine and the _________ have the same basic mechanics involved.

Her: A WOODEN SPOON, TUCKER.

Me: No, no, no, we're talking degrees of complexity here.

Her: oh.

Her: then yes.

Me: Okay.

Anyway, we decided that an acceptable Craft DC was 55. If your DM says it's higher, hey, even better; it just means the work gets done faster.

So. 1524 times 55 equals 83,820. Not counting fabrication, you'll get 8,382 GP worth of work done in a week. Of course, this will still take 130 years not counting fabricate. Nihility found the solution to the problem: voluntarily increase the DC of the target item until it equals 1515. That's an increase of 1460, if you care. Anyway, that means you get 230,886 GP done in a week -- so this'll take you about 4 and 3/4s of a year.

EDIT #2: But then, that's the OLD number. Since our NEW check is +1917 (or 1917-48-sidekick's CHa mod, if the field marshall bonuses don't stack) we can crank that DC up to 1915. So, 1917 times 1915 is 3,671,055, which adjusted and rounded down is 367,105 GP per week, cutting your time down to JUST under three years. HUZZAH!

So anyway, let's assume you do all that. What do you get?

WHAT YOU GET

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/vsd-eg1.gif

That's right. A Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.)

Have fun with your new implement of destruction. And remember: it looks real good with a planeshifting helm on it.

SOURCES

Feats: Crystalkeep d20 Feat list (it's listed under 3.0, but has an "everything from d20" option.)
Minion and Sidekick Feats: d20 Past
Expert, Spellcaster and Warrior: Unearthed Arcana
Marshall: Miniatures Handbook
Smart, Dedicated, Dillente background: d20 Modern Core Rulebook
Field Marshall: d20 Future
Flesh to Salt: Sandstorm
Victory-class Star Destroyer: Starships of the Galaxy


...would'ja look at all the catgirl corpses...

UglyPanda
2007-11-16, 08:56 PM
The peasant rail-gun only works because the combat system isn't meant to handle that many combatants at once.

If you accept that peasant rail-guns work, then crowd-surfing is one of the fastest methods of ground travel in the game. Along those lines...

33. Get a lot of horses and make sure you can always beat a DC 20 ride check. Line all of the horses in a row, with their sides facing each other and a five ft. gap between each of them. Fast mount (free action) onto one, then fast dismount (also free action) off it. Fast mount onto the next one and you'll eventually zoom to where you need to go.

It beats finding commoners with enough strength to lift you.

Kantolin
2007-11-16, 09:17 PM
The important thing to remember is that this all will take place over a 6 second period of time and if you manage to get 2000 peasants, each occupying the standard 5 foot square the projectile will be traveling at about 508 m/s, which is amazingly quick given that the projectile could easily weigh over 10 pounds

Except at the end, if they threw this (let's say it's a spear) at 508m/s at someone...

...it would deal 1d8 damage. Well, plus the last unit's strength modifier. Have a range increment of 20ft.

But it'd be a really cool 508m/s 1d8+str damage attack.

Kinda like if you get a Cheetah MonkBarbarian to break the sound barrier. He'd... deal 1d8+str. +2 for charging.

Darn momentum not existing in D&D!


Using a line of horses to move, now, has no real drawbacks to it beyond the DM assaulting you. :P

RTGoodman
2007-11-16, 09:19 PM
This one is pretty well-known, but no one has mentioned it here yet.

The cleric in the party is unconscious, and you don't have anyone else that can do some healing? That's fine - all you need is a bucket of water.


When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to Ė1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

So the characters hit points go to 0, and this he's disabled. And hey, look at that - a disabled (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#disabled) character is conscious and can take a single standard or move action like, say, healing itself with a Cure Minor Wounds spell!

Of course, no DM is going to allow drowning to bring the character's HP up to 0, but (as far as I know) it works, RAW.

[Also, as far as I can remember, there's no actual game definition for "drowns," so drowning might not even be a problem for some of you more unscrupulous players!:smallbiggrin: )

Kantolin
2007-11-16, 09:21 PM
If I recall, the counter to that one is that D&D also has no statement on how to end the sequence of 'drowning'.

Once someone fails that initial constitution check, by RAW, they will die in 3 turns regardless of, say, wish. :P

Serenity
2007-11-16, 10:26 PM
Also, it says 'drops'. You can't drop from -1 to 0.

Though, potentially, you could use this to argue that if you're at negative hit points, you cannot drown.

tyckspoon
2007-11-16, 10:44 PM
This one is pretty well-known, but no one has mentioned it here yet.

The cleric in the party is unconscious, and you don't have anyone else that can do some healing? That's fine - all you need is a bucket of water.



So the characters hit points go to 0, and this he's disabled. And hey, look at that - a disabled (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#disabled) character is conscious and can take a single standard or move action like, say, healing itself with a Cure Minor Wounds spell!

Of course, no DM is going to allow drowning to bring the character's HP up to 0, but (as far as I know) it works, RAW.

[Also, as far as I can remember, there's no actual game definition for "drowns," so drowning might not even be a problem for some of you more unscrupulous players!:smallbiggrin: )

That first round of drowning doesn't just set your HP to 0; it renders you unconscious as well. Which *is* a defined condition, although it normally is only triggered by going into negatives or subdual damage. You're 'knocked out and helpless'. Although... if you go strictly by RAW and don't let common sense or common language usage enter the discussion, that's a circular statement: Unconscious makes you helpless, which refers you back to unconscious as a condition that causes helplessness. Neither entry states whether or not you're allowed to take actions.

Doresain
2007-11-16, 11:48 PM
On the contrary: Odds are that any traps they trigger will have the party in the radius, but won't have the goblin in the radius. Who do you think put those traps there to begin with? And now you're giving him free access to the triggers, with all of the party conveniently right behind him?

youre thinking of kobolds

Jack_Simth
2007-11-17, 12:06 AM
If I recall, the counter to that one is that D&D also has no statement on how to end the sequence of 'drowning'.

Once someone fails that initial constitution check, by RAW, they will die in 3 turns regardless of, say, wish. :P
By RAW, there is no mechanical consequence to the status of "dead". Technically, nothing stops your normal ability to take actions.

Things get really, really silly, really, really fast when going down this route.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:02 AM
34 (I think). Hugging your friends lets you move faster.

Get 4 guys to grapple one guy. Assume they all have 30 ft speed. As an action is grappling, you can drag your opponent half your speed if you succeed at a grapple check. Since you can auto fail any check, the guy in the middle fails all his grapple checks against the other guys and in one round they drag him 60 feet. But wait, he hasn't had his turn yet, they all auto fail their opposed grapple check against him on his turn, and he drags all of them another 15 feet, making their movement 75 feet in one round. Not bad. Especially for overland movement without fatiguing since there are no rules for battle fatigue in DnD. Now it gets cheesy. The rules say you can have 4 people grapple another. Technically, only one person is grappling each of those 4, so they can have 3 more guys each jump on them, bring the total number of grapplers to 17 for a movement speed of 255 feet per round. Now each of those new guys can have 3 more jump on them. rinse and repeat to get as fast a movement speeds as you want. Who knew a bard with leadership could outrun a monk?

You could possibly get movement speeds at faster than the speed of light with enough grapplers involved.

35. Commoner Nuke.

All of these grapplers are still in the same 5 foot square. But what happens when the grapple is broken? Fireball the group (or knock out the poor sap in the center) and what happens to the rest of them? They all get displaced into the nearest open space. Depending on how many people you've got in there, you can have commoners flying through the air at light speeds and be perfectly fine, landing on their two feet a hundred miles away with no damage.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:05 AM
By RAW, there is no mechanical consequence to the status of "dead". Technically, nothing stops your normal ability to take actions.

Things get really, really silly, really, really fast when going down this route.

No, there is definitely a counter to that one too. I can't remember the thread which discussed it, but death is in fact defined in the book, though it took a whole ton of searching to find it.

Seffbasilisk
2007-11-17, 01:14 AM
By RAW, there is no mechanical consequence to the status of "dead". Technically, nothing stops your normal ability to take actions.

Things get really, really silly, really, really fast when going down this route.

No, because to get to status dead, one must first go through the stages from -9 to 0. At -9 one is unconscious and unable to take any actions. 'Dead' is that unconscious, with a conditioner that only allows higher-order spells such as 'Raise Dead' or the 'Ressurections' to rectify.

Inyssius Tor
2007-11-17, 01:19 AM
It doesn't specifically say that you are unconscious when dead.

However, when dead, your HP are by definition less than 0, which means that you are unconscious when dead.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:22 AM
No one's mentioned the commoner rail gun yet!?!?!?! Blasphemy!

First, I must set it up with this cheesy trick:

36. Infinite Quarterstaves.

Quarterstaves have a cost of 0 gp (as do a few other items which this trick works for). By RAW, this means they take 0 resources and 0 time to create. Yes, you can craft an infinite number of quarterstaves in one round and still take your full actions. You can be locked up in prison, but never be unarmed as long as you've got that trusty quarterstaff you just crafted (won't that annoy the prison guards after the 50th time of having to take it from you?). Endless possibilities for this one.

Now the real cheese begins:

37. The Commoner Railgun.

Line up as many commoners as you can. Spread them 30 feet apart from each other. They all roll initiative and delay until the guy at the beginning takes his turn. On his turn, he crafts a quarterstaff as a free action, moves 30 feet to the next guy as a move action, and hands him the quarterstaff as a standard action. The guy with the quarterstaff now takes his turn to hand it off to the next guy. Rinse and repeat down the line. Assume your line is 600 feet long. That quarterstaff has moved 600 feet in 6 seconds. That's 100 feet per second. Make this line longer and you can get the quarterstaff to travel at the speed of light or beyond. The last commoner simply chucks the quarterstaff at a target with a huge bonus to hit and damage based on it's speed.

Actually by RAW, you can't throw a quarterstaff, so you'd have to use a club. Then it can only go 10 feet without penalties and it gains no bonus for speed. But if you wanna kill catgirls, commoner railguns are fun theoretical discussions.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:24 AM
It doesn't specifically say that you are unconscious when dead.

However, when dead, your HP are by definition less than 0, which means that you are unconscious when dead.

And because you are dead, you are a corpse which is an object and no longer subject to healing, therefore you cannot heal someone back into consciousness while they are still considered dead.

And thanks guys for having better memory than I on what that counter was.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-17, 01:25 AM
37. The Commoner Railgun.


Stealing my ideas eh? I believe I am actually justified this time in saying "Shame on you." This may of course change given time and further consideration but at the moment consider yourself filled with shame, possibly self loathing.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:27 AM
Stealing my ideas eh? I believe I am actually justified this time in saying "Shame on you." This may of course change given time and further consideration but at the moment consider yourself filled with shame, possibly self loathing.

I did not once say I came up with the idea. I simply posted it. If you are the creator then by all means take credit.

Goumindong
2007-11-17, 01:28 AM
24 Pipes of the Sewers: 1d3 rat swarms as often as you want for 1,150 gp. A low level bard with decent cha has no chance of failing the DC 10 perform the first time/day, afterwards it becomes DC 15.
It is much better than the 2nd level spell summon swarm since you have full control over multiple swarms. And apart from summoning EL4 worth, it's perfect for springing traps.
There have to be rats nearby, so you are dependent on the DM for it to work

There specificially have to be rats around for this to work. So its not quite as good as you might think. Should work in most dungeons/sewers though.

As for a real trick.

Boots of Infinite Perfect flying:

Step 1: Buy two boots

Step 2: Buy two Immovable Rods

Step 3: Place Immovable Rods in boots, set pressure trigger in desired location.

You are now Immune to:

Triping and other similar effects

Bull Rushing and other similar knockback effects

You gain:

Fly Speed equal to your ground speed with perfect manuverability.

This works even better on Warforged, who could work them as attached items meaning they wouldnt even take up your boot slot, and couldnt be destroyed unless you were.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:31 AM
There specificially have to be rats around for this to work. So its not quite as good as you might think. Should work in most dungeons/sewers though.

As for a real trick.

Boots of Infinite Perfect flying:

Step 1: Buy two boots

Step 2: Buy two Immovable Rods

Step 3: Place Immovable Rods in boots, set pressure trigger in desired location.

You are now Immune to:

Triping and other similar effects

Bull Rushing and other similar knockback effects

You gain:

Fly Speed equal to your ground speed with perfect manuverability.

This works even better on Warforged, who could work them as attached items meaning they wouldnt even take up your boot slot, and couldnt be destroyed unless you were.

How are you activating these rods if they are inside your boots? And doesn't activation require a move action or something? I could be wrong on that part though.

tyckspoon
2007-11-17, 01:31 AM
No, because to get to status dead, one must first go through the stages from -9 to 0. At -9 one is unconscious and unable to take any actions. 'Dead' is that unconscious, with a conditioner that only allows higher-order spells such as 'Raise Dead' or the 'Ressurections' to rectify.

Check out the actual entry for unconscious. It says you are 'helpless'. Now read 'helpless'. It gives a number of effects for that condition- but notably, none of them say 'may not take any actions'. For that, you have to trace back to the specific condition that is rendering you helpless. Dying does say you may not take any actions; it also says that it is the condition that applies from -1 to -9. Dead is the condition that takes over at -10; it's not Dying+, it's a whole new condition. Which doesn't say anything about putting any limits on the character's activities at all. The only potentially negative thing about it is not having your soul in your body.. oh, and dying will remove a prepared caster's prepared spells.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-17, 01:32 AM
Credit for coming up with it isn't mine, oh how I wish it was. But I posted it first which gives me the amazing crown of interweb conquering, which according to the internet rules of conduct means you are a usurper of my vast empire of internets. As such we must have a duel at noon and/or midnight, preferably on the foggy moors but I think travel may be a bit of an issue so I am willing to accept at least one quarter of your internets in exchange for this travesty.

Inyssius Tor
2007-11-17, 01:39 AM
Actually, you both need to read page one.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:41 AM
Credit for coming up with it isn't mine, oh how I wish it was. But I posted it first which gives me the amazing crown of interweb conquering, which according to the internet rules of conduct means you are a usurper of my vast empire of internets. As such we must have a duel at noon and/or midnight, preferably on the foggy moors but I think travel may be a bit of an issue so I am willing to accept at least one quarter of your internets in exchange for this travesty.

I must apologize, I did not in fact read the entire thread but simply to a post here which implied to me that it had not been posted. Unfortunately I cannot find the post any longer and the number of pages in this thread as been reduced from 3 to 2. Someone has been using their super powers over the internets to screw with me...

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:44 AM
My catgirl just died. :( That sounds ridiculous, though.

It was this post I read. I am truly a noob for not reading through all contexts and coming to that hasty conclusion.

Setra
2007-11-17, 01:48 AM
37. The Commoner Railgun.

Line up as many commoners as you can. Spread them 30 feet apart from each other. They all roll initiative and delay until the guy at the beginning takes his turn. On his turn, he crafts a quarterstaff as a free action, moves 30 feet to the next guy as a move action, and hands him the quarterstaff as a standard action. The guy with the quarterstaff now takes his turn to hand it off to the next guy. Rinse and repeat down the line. Assume your line is 600 feet long. That quarterstaff has moved 600 feet in 6 seconds. That's 100 feet per second. Make this line longer and you can get the quarterstaff to travel at the speed of light or beyond. The last commoner simply chucks the quarterstaff at a target with a huge bonus to hit and damage based on it's speed.
I'd argue that everyone acts at the same time, thus most of the readied actions would not come to pass.

Edit:
Also, VerdugoExplode, you were SECOND to post the commoner railgun.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 01:54 AM
I'd argue that everyone acts at the same time, thus most of the readied actions would not come to pass.

You would argue but you would major fail at that. That's simply not how DnD works. Each character is readying an action to act as the quarterstaff is handed to him. They aren't going simultaneously. That's not even possible in the rules.

I've already stated that this doesn't work and why, but its not for the reason you posted.

Goumindong
2007-11-17, 02:04 AM
How are you activating these rods if they are inside your boots? And doesn't activation require a move action or something? I could be wrong on that part though.

With your toes. And/or with pressure. Activation requires pushing the button, so not a standard action. Though i can see how a DM would rule that way. But that is why you rig the boots so that it works. You might need some "Knowledge(engineering)" to make it work.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 02:06 AM
With your toes. And/or with pressure. And no activation requires pushing the button, so not a standard action.

If that's true I actually would allow this in games, but would make a house rule that you only move half speed until you burn a feat to become proficient in walking strangely (getting used to tapping your toes at the correct times).

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-17, 02:13 AM
Curses! Foiled again! You no longer owe me a quarter of your internets though.
Also, I can no longer say "shame on you" to anyone as it inevitably backfires and I must call shame upon myself.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 02:15 AM
Curses! Foiled again! You no longer owe me a quarter of your internets though.

Don't worry, you were the first to post how it works. The original fool simply stated the name of the trick without enlightening everyone as to how it actually works.

I would like to say that I indeed invented the "Hugging Your Friends Let's You Move Faster" trick.

Theli
2007-11-17, 02:57 AM
Actually, you both need to read page one.

Aye.

Wow, that certainly went pear-shaped quick.

Personally, I don't find useless and/or meaningless RAW specific exploits to be at all interesting. But hey, maybe it's just me.

And then there's the odd speculation of "If momentum was taken into account properly in DnD, this ridiculous thing would happen according to this specific set of rules." or "If antimatter existed in DnD and was summonable by magic...AND worked in a similar manner to what we know about real life antimatter..." This is far from core and just brings outside concepts into the game for no purpose other than to poke fun at the seams of the simulation.

But again, maybe it's just me. Hey, if you have fun doing it, how am I to judge?

At least we all get to point and laugh at the catgirls, huh?

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-17, 03:02 AM
Here's one for ya:

38. Give a Rogue a Tower Shield. Since it provides cover, he can hide behind it. Since he is holding it, the Tower Shield is hidden. Basically, the tower shield and the rogue are hidden behind the tower shield. Say it looks like a cardboard box (or at least paint a cardboard box on the front of the tower shield) and call yourself Metal Gear Cheese.

tyckspoon
2007-11-17, 03:06 AM
Here's one for ya:

Give a Rogue a Tower Shield. Since it provides cover, he can hide behind it. Since he is holding it, the Tower Shield is hidden. Basically, the tower shield and the rogue are hidden behind the tower shield. Shape the Tower Shield like a cardboard box and call yourself Metal Gear Cheese.

In this forum we obey the laws of thermodynamics (except we don't, 'cause magic.)! Or quantum mechanics. Or whatever it is that prevents you from doing this blatantly impossible thing. You probably end up turning yourself into a portal to the Plane of Shadow.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-17, 03:07 AM
In this forum we obey the laws of thermodynamics (except we don't, 'cause magic.)! Or quantum mechanics. Or whatever it is that prevents you from doing this blatantly impossible thing. You probably end up turning yourself into a portal to the Plane of Shadow.

I assure you, it's as legal as commoners accelerating miscellaneous objects past the speed of light. You can just march out an army of people into a wide open field and NO ONE WILL SEE THEM cuz they're HIDING.

tyckspoon
2007-11-17, 03:31 AM
I assure you, it's as legal as commoners accelerating miscellaneous objects past the speed of light. You can just march out an army of people into a wide open field and NO ONE WILL SEE THEM cuz they're HIDING.

For more silliness, acquire a secondary army of Shadowdancers to hide behind them. In their unseeable hidden shadows.

Jack Zander
2007-11-17, 04:00 AM
You can't hide in your own shadow, but can you hide in someone else's shadow?

EDIT: Even if it's smaller than you are?

Soups
2007-11-17, 04:49 AM
Yes, technically, you can hid in a mouse's shadow. I imagine classes with familiars are undetectable, assuming no one looks at thier familar as a threat. Too bad invisibility doesn't give anything shadows.

Armads
2007-11-17, 05:27 AM
Fast Mount/Dismount.

Get a goblin to sit on a wolf (or something it can ride). There are, say, 10 wolves, each 10ft apart of the other. The Goblin Fast Dismounts the first wolf, landing adjacent to the second wolf, fast mounts the second wolf, fast dismounts, etc, etc, and then has a full round action at the end of the whole thing to do whatever he wants.

Threeshades
2007-11-17, 11:09 AM
Fast Mount/Dismount.

Get a goblin to sit on a wolf (or something it can ride). There are, say, 10 wolves, each 10ft apart of the other. The Goblin Fast Dismounts the first wolf, landing adjacent to the second wolf, fast mounts the second wolf, fast dismounts, etc, etc, and then has a full round action at the end of the whole thing to do whatever he wants.

this can be used to make trade ways of infinite speed travelling. A nice thing to do.

Curmudgeon
2007-11-17, 11:48 AM
You can't hide in your own shadow, but can you hide in someone else's shadow?

EDIT: Even if it's smaller than you are? Oh, you can do better than that. The Shadowdancer (or Assassin) version of Hide in Plain Sight is Supernatural (i.e., magical). At noon, on the middle of a flat, featureless desert, under clear skies, you can Hide 10' away from an ant's shadow.

With Supernatural HiPS you're not dependent on hiding in shadows any longer. That's why it fails in an Antimagic Field, but the Ranger's Camouflage and Extraordinary HiPS would still work.

MCerberus
2007-11-17, 11:55 AM
Doesn't that dismounting thing not work because the DM can say "you've had enough free actions for one round."

Chronos
2007-11-17, 12:07 PM
Anything can fail to work because the DM says it doesn't work. For absurdities like these, though, we're deliberately assuming a DM insane enough to allow them to work.

Serenity
2007-11-17, 01:46 PM
Yers, but the DMG specifically says that you don't have infinite free actions--or more specifically, if you try to chain a whole bunch of free actions together in the style of the Fast Mount/Dismount business, then they eventually become standard actions.

MCerberus
2007-11-17, 02:14 PM
But this oddly enough means the railgun can fire the 500m/s rock because it's multiple people doing 1 free action. Of course then the rock would stop after the max range and it would get there insanely quickly.

Goumindong
2007-11-17, 02:38 PM
But this oddly enough means the railgun can fire the 500m/s rock because it's multiple people doing 1 free action. Of course then the rock would stop after the max range and it would get there insanely quickly.

Actually they are taking a move or standard action. The trick is that since each readied action takes place directly in the initiatve action after the other the entire chain, no matter how long, executes in at most 6 seconds.

MCerberus
2007-11-17, 04:18 PM
Actually they are taking a move or standard action. The trick is that since each readied action takes place directly in the initiatve action after the other the entire chain, no matter how long, executes in at most 6 seconds.

Yes but the rock still deals damage as a rock thrown by the last person. It will reach its max range and then plunk to the ground.

Istari
2007-11-17, 10:00 PM
This thread has besiged me with science and gaming.

39.I belive according to the rules you can gate as many creatures as you want with the spell but you can only have a certain amount of HD under your control.
What you can do if your fighting a BBEG or BBGG just summon in a infine amount of random people with aliments apposed to the enamies and they will fight him for you with out you controling them.

AslanCross
2007-11-17, 10:23 PM
This thread has besiged me with science and gaming.

39.I belive according to the rules you can gate as many creatures as you want with the spell but you can only have a certain amount of HD under your control.
What you can do if your fighting a BBEG or BBGG just summon in a infine amount of random people with aliments apposed to the enamies and they will fight him for you with out you controling them.

Well, the SRD says you may call "either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures." Although it's not in the RAW, I'm sure RAI means exactly what several means: "More than two but fewer than many."

...which then begs the question of why one can summon "several" creatures but not "a few" creatures.

tyckspoon
2007-11-17, 10:39 PM
I apologize if this one has been mentioned before; my memory is a little slippery trying to recall what's in what thread. If it hasn't, here's

40. Lighting the darkness with Darkness. The Darkness spell overwrites the local lighting conditions with a 20 foot radius of 'shadowy illumination.' This isn't the same thing as darkness; it's just poor lighting. Wandering around blind in the pitch dark? Cast Darkness! You take the penalties for not having good light, but it's better than no light.

AslanCross
2007-11-17, 10:44 PM
I apologize if this one has been mentioned before; my memory is a little slippery trying to recall what's in what thread. If it hasn't, here's

40. Lighting the darkness with Darkness. The Darkness spell overwrites the local lighting conditions with a 20 foot radius of 'shadowy illumination.' This isn't the same thing as darkness; it's just poor lighting. Wandering around blind in the pitch dark? Cast Darkness! You take the penalties for not having good light, but it's better than no light.

What makes this loophole actually plausible is the SRD wording: "This spell causes the object to radiate shadowy illumination..."

Theli
2007-11-20, 11:35 AM
41.

The rarely used Rhino Hide armor. Grants an extra 2d6 damage on a charge. Perfect for any proper barbarian.

Greenfaun
2007-11-20, 12:12 PM
HE'S FIRE NATION!

I lol'ed. Avatar ftw. :)

hewhosaysfish
2007-11-20, 12:27 PM
Check out the actual entry for unconscious. It says you are 'helpless'. Now read 'helpless'. It gives a number of effects for that condition- but notably, none of them say 'may not take any actions'. For that, you have to trace back to the specific condition that is rendering you helpless. Dying does say you may not take any actions; it also says that it is the condition that applies from -1 to -9. Dead is the condition that takes over at -10; it's not Dying+, it's a whole new condition. Which doesn't say anything about putting any limits on the character's activities at all. The only potentially negative thing about it is not having your soul in your body.. oh, and dying will remove a prepared caster's prepared spells.

Ah but a character on negative hit-points (and a dead character is at -10 regardless of how they died) has more non-lethal damage than hit-points (because non-lethal starts at 0) and so is unconscious (NB this makes the Diehard feat completely useless as a side-effect :smallsmile: ).
A character who is unconscious is helpless.
A character who is helpless is treated as having Dex 0.
A character with Dex 0 is paralyzed.
A character who is paralyzed cannot take any physical actions but can take purely mental ones.
Therefore psionics is broken.
QED.

Roderick_BR
2007-11-20, 01:39 PM
No one's mentioned the commoner rail gun yet!?!?!?! Blasphemy!

First, I must set it up with this cheesy trick:

36. Infinite Quarterstaves.

Quarterstaves have a cost of 0 gp (as do a few other items which this trick works for). By RAW, this means they take 0 resources and 0 time to create. Yes, you can craft an infinite number of quarterstaves in one round and still take your full actions. You can be locked up in prison, but never be unarmed as long as you've got that trusty quarterstaff you just crafted (won't that annoy the prison guards after the 50th time of having to take it from you?). Endless possibilities for this one.

Now the real cheese begins:

37. The Commoner Railgun.

Line up as many commoners as you can. Spread them 30 feet apart from each other. They all roll initiative and delay until the guy at the beginning takes his turn. On his turn, he crafts a quarterstaff as a free action, moves 30 feet to the next guy as a move action, and hands him the quarterstaff as a standard action. The guy with the quarterstaff now takes his turn to hand it off to the next guy. Rinse and repeat down the line. Assume your line is 600 feet long. That quarterstaff has moved 600 feet in 6 seconds. That's 100 feet per second. Make this line longer and you can get the quarterstaff to travel at the speed of light or beyond. The last commoner simply chucks the quarterstaff at a target with a huge bonus to hit and damage based on it's speed.

Actually by RAW, you can't throw a quarterstaff, so you'd have to use a club. Then it can only go 10 feet without penalties and it gains no bonus for speed. But if you wanna kill catgirls, commoner railguns are fun theoretical discussions.
The problem with the commoner rail gun is that there are not rules for weapon speed, so, after the weapon moved at a huge speed, the last commoner will throw it as normal, with normal to-hit, and normal damage, at a normal distance. As someone said before: "Damn D&D and it's lack of momentum rules".

Zherog
2007-11-20, 01:47 PM
Your arms been chopped off?

As far as I know, there is no core way of losing an arm...


30 Alternatively, awaken a statue, then stone to flesh.

Awaken cannot be cast on a statue; only animals and trees.

(and now to actually finish reading the thread to see if anybody else pointed this out...)

hewhosaysfish
2007-11-20, 02:00 PM
Awaken cannot be cast on a statue; only animals and trees.


Perhaps he meant Animate Objects followed by Awaken Construct?

Zherog
2007-11-20, 02:02 PM
Perhaps, although animate object was his #31.

Jack Zander
2007-11-20, 02:09 PM
41.

The rarely used Rhino Hide armor. Grants an extra 2d6 damage on a charge. Perfect for any proper barbarian.

How is this a silly 3.5 trick?

Theli
2007-11-20, 02:21 PM
How is this a silly 3.5 trick?


I'm starting this thread to discuss all the silly tricks you can do in core 3.5 that aren't readily obvious (or perhaps just not often utilized.) That give characters some kind of capability that you wouldn't expect. (Often through low-cost items that hardly anyone ever looks at.)

Uh, cause I say so? First page, first paragraph.

My intentions for starting this thread were partially to bring to light basic elements of 3.5 core that newbies may find mildly interesting. I didn't even really consider all the literal, and mostly useless, RAW that people have been bringing up.

It's not a "trick". It's not even a "technique". What it is, is probably a rarely mentioned item that some people might find useful that's present in 3.5 core and may not have been known.

The very first suggestion in this thread was the Pipes of Sounding. Nothing really special about that, except that it has some utility and that people may have not been aware of its existance. Same as this.

Alex12
2007-11-20, 02:24 PM
Ah but a character on negative hit-points (and a dead character is at -10 regardless of how they died) has more non-lethal damage than hit-points (because non-lethal starts at 0) and so is unconscious (NB this makes the Diehard feat completely useless as a side-effect :smallsmile: ).
A character who is unconscious is helpless.
A character who is helpless is treated as having Dex 0.
A character with Dex 0 is paralyzed.
A character who is paralyzed cannot take any physical actions but can take purely mental ones.
Therefore psionics is broken.
QED.

The SRD defines the state of unconsciousness as "Knocked out and helpless." Since the SRD doesn't define the term "knocked out" I'll use the dictionary definition. Miriam-Webster's doesn't have "knocked out" but it does have "knock out" and appends the -ed to knock in one of the examples, so I'll use that. The first of the relevant, non-redundant definitions is "to make inoperative or useless" and a psionicist who can still manifest is not useless. Ergo, psionicists cannot manifest while unconscious, and therefore, psionics isn't broken.

How about using Troll meat to provide a source of infinite food for nothing? There's absolutely nothing against that in the rules. You don't even have to feed them, since it's impossible to die from nonlethal damage, and Troll regeneration converts all damage from anything other than fire or acid into nonlethal damage.

Fussy
2007-11-20, 02:25 PM
Dominate person on all shopkeepers and don't let them sell anything to any other party members.

They can buy stuff from your player at a higher price if they want (all mages have to make a profit somehow).

UMD, scroll of dominate monster on a rat/raven/cat etc. and pretend it's your familiar. Insist that any NPCs you come across assume you are a wizard.

For more fun, be a rogue (or assasin or shadowdancer) using this trick and dress like a wizard. Challenge a mage NPC to a magic duel. Hide, or HiPS using a shadow.

The wizard will assume 2 things:

1. You are invisible (not hidden)
2. You have silent spell, and possibly still spell (they didn't hear you say anything and you probably didn't wave your arms around)

They will then go probably cast see invisibility, and (if they have silent spell) silence.

They have now wasted 2 spell slots, the silence means there's no chance of them hearing you creep up for a sneak attack, and they now have to silent spell anything they want to cast (taking up more spell slots).

Sneak attack!

NB: Don't use this on a mage with True Seeing.

Jack Zander
2007-11-20, 02:30 PM
Dominate person on all shopkeepers and don't let them sell anything to any other party members.

They can buy stuff from your player at a higher price if they want (all mages have to make a profit somehow).

UMD, scroll of dominate monster on a rat/raven/cat etc. and pretend it's your familiar. Insist that any NPCs you come across assume you are a wizard.

For more fun, be a rogue (or assasin or shadowdancer) using this trick and dress like a wizard. Challenge a mage NPC to a magic duel. Hide, or HiPS using a shadow.

The wizard will assume 2 things:

1. You are invisible (not hidden)
2. You have silent spell, and possibly still spell (they didn't hear you say anything and you probably didn't wave your arms around)

They will then go probably cast see invisibility, and (if they have silent spell) silence.

They have now wasted 2 spell slots, the silence means there's no chance of them hearing you creep up for a sneak attack, and they now have to silent spell anything they want to cast (taking up more spell slots).

Sneak attack!

NB: Don't use this on a mage with True Seeing.

Fun! I've always wanted to create a rogue who pretends to be a wizard even to his own party members.

Alex12
2007-11-20, 02:31 PM
Dominate person on all shopkeepers and don't let them sell anything to any other party members.

They can buy stuff from your player at a higher price if they want (all mages have to make a profit somehow).

UMD, scroll of dominate monster on a rat/raven/cat etc. and pretend it's your familiar. Insist that any NPCs you come across assume you are a wizard.

For more fun, be a rogue (or assasin or shadowdancer) using this trick and dress like a wizard. Challenge a mage NPC to a magic duel. Hide, or HiPS using a shadow.

The wizard will assume 2 things:

1. You are invisible (not hidden)
2. You have silent spell, and possibly still spell (they didn't hear you say anything and you probably didn't wave your arms around)

They will then go probably cast see invisibility, and (if they have silent spell) silence.

They have now wasted 2 spell slots, the silence means there's no chance of them hearing you creep up for a sneak attack, and they now have to silent spell anything they want to cast (taking up more spell slots).

Sneak attack!

NB: Don't use this on a mage with True Seeing.

Problem with that: From the SRD, "If people are observing you, even casually, you canít hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that youíre out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went."

Jack Zander
2007-11-20, 02:33 PM
Problem with that: From the SRD, "If people are observing you, even casually, you canít hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that youíre out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went."

Problem with that is the text of HiPS :smallannoyed: :smallyuk: :smallconfused: :smallsigh: :smallmad:

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-20, 04:26 PM
Dominate person on all shopkeepers and don't let them sell anything to any other party members.

They can buy stuff from your player at a higher price if they want (all mages have to make a profit somehow).

UMD, scroll of dominate monster on a rat/raven/cat etc. and pretend it's your familiar. Insist that any NPCs you come across assume you are a wizard.

For more fun, be a rogue (or assasin or shadowdancer) using this trick and dress like a wizard. Challenge a mage NPC to a magic duel. Hide, or HiPS using a shadow.

The wizard will assume 2 things:

1. You are invisible (not hidden)
2. You have silent spell, and possibly still spell (they didn't hear you say anything and you probably didn't wave your arms around)

They will then go probably cast see invisibility, and (if they have silent spell) silence.

They have now wasted 2 spell slots, the silence means there's no chance of them hearing you creep up for a sneak attack, and they now have to silent spell anything they want to cast (taking up more spell slots).

Sneak attack!

NB: Don't use this on a mage with True Seeing.

If they wasted two spell slots and two turns doing that, they're the worst played mage ever. Also, SILENCE is not a Wizard or Sorceror spell. Anyways, no mage is going to cast "See Invisibility" during a one-on-one fight. They're going to use something like Glitterdust or Blindsight or get to protecting themselves.

And on top of all this... you can't hide while observed.

Goumindong
2007-11-20, 04:56 PM
How about using Troll meat to provide a source of infinite food for nothing? There's absolutely nothing against that in the rules. You don't even have to feed them, since it's impossible to die from nonlethal damage, and Troll regeneration converts all damage from anything other than fire or acid into nonlethal damage.

Regeneration specificially seperates out damage from starvation/drowning/suffication.

The troll will still starve to death if you dont feed it. Arguably, since what a troll needs to eat is DMs disgression this could mean it had to eat a lot to survive when regenerating constantly.

Ralfarius
2007-11-20, 05:06 PM
41.

The rarely used Rhino Hide armor. Grants an extra 2d6 damage on a charge. Perfect for any proper barbarian.
Can't the price for Rhino Hide be adjusted to make it into barding, then combine that with lance-charging-type-combat?

Jack Zander
2007-11-20, 05:11 PM
Can't the price for Rhino Hide be adjusted to make it into barding, then combine that with lance-charging-type-combat?

Yes, but only for the horses' attacks.

Chronos
2007-11-20, 05:12 PM
NB: Don't use this on a mage with True Seeing.Why not? True Seeing doesn't work versus Hide, any more than See Invisibility does.

Zherog
2007-11-20, 05:38 PM
Regeneration specificially seperates out damage from starvation/drowning/suffication.

The troll will still starve to death if you dont feed it. Arguably, since what a troll needs to eat is DMs disgression this could mean it had to eat a lot to survive when regenerating constantly.

Give it a ring of sustenance.

Wraith
2007-11-20, 07:07 PM
You can't hide in your own shadow, but can you hide in someone else's shadow?

EDIT: Even if it's smaller than you are?
Oh, you can do better than that. The Shadowdancer (or Assassin) version of Hide in Plain Sight is Supernatural (i.e., magical). At noon, on the middle of a flat, featureless desert, under clear skies, you can Hide 10' away from an ant's shadow.

We can do better than THAT, too! :smallbiggrin:

Let's say you're in the featureless desert, under clear skies, at noon, and you can't find an ant, but you do want to HiPS. Perhaps you're being menaced by an army of Gloamings and they're deliberately naked and glowing as brightly as possible so that they create absolutely no shadows at all. (I don't know how they'd be in the desert or why - just humour me, please?)

Solution: Take off your hat and throw it in the air. Or just drop it on the floor. It's not YOUR shadow anymore, it's your hat's - *POOF!* Hidden we go.

Don't like that idea? Alright then. A Gloamling declares that it's going to kill you and then grins. See her teeth? See how they are obstructing the light from getting into her mouth? Looks pretty dark in there, compared to outside. Almost as if they're casting a shadow.... *POOF!*

In theory, you could take this to ridiculous levels. Does your enemy have long hair? Good, at least two of them are going to cross over each other, there's a shadow right there. Kick the dirt and make a little mound about half an inch tall - THAT looks like it has a shadow to me. Has your enemy swallowed anything in the last hour that has been enchanted with the Light spell? No? Must be pretty dark in their esophagus, I'll take a HiPS on that, please.

Nothing about the skill description says that the shadow must even be visible to the Assassin/Shadowdancer. Technically, they could claim that the lack of light deep inside someone's bowels was caused by their skin and muscle casting a shadow over their intestines. In a way, it's genuinely quite hard NOT to find some kind of shadow nearby!

DDogwood
2007-11-21, 11:02 AM
Regeneration specificially seperates out damage from starvation/drowning/suffication.

The troll will still starve to death if you dont feed it. Arguably, since what a troll needs to eat is DMs disgression this could mean it had to eat a lot to survive when regenerating constantly.

Since the rules don't stipulate any requirements for the troll to regenerate, one could argue that the troll avoids starvation by eating himself (he'll just regenerate, after all). Obviously this won't work with a DM who applies common sense, but that's true of most of the 'tricks' suggested in this thread.

One that most DMs will actually allow:

42. Use Shrink Item to put between 16 and 4,000 vials of any fluid, such as water or alchemical acid, into a single vial (use the cloth-like texture so the stuff won't pour out). The exact amount depends on how much pressure your DM will allow a vial to withstand. You can then uncork the vial, point it at a target, and state the command word - the sudden increase in volume should send the substance spraying out of the vial with considerable force. Voila! You have a magical fire extinguisher/acid spray gun/alchemical flamethrower!

Dausuul
2007-11-21, 11:19 AM
We can do better than THAT, too! :smallbiggrin:

Let's say you're in the featureless desert, under clear skies, at noon, and you can't find an ant, but you do want to HiPS. Perhaps you're being menaced by an army of Gloamings and they're deliberately naked and glowing as brightly as possible so that they create absolutely no shadows at all. (I don't know how they'd be in the desert or why - just humour me, please?)

Solution: Take off your hat and throw it in the air. Or just drop it on the floor. It's not YOUR shadow anymore, it's your hat's - *POOF!* Hidden we go.

Don't like that idea? Alright then. A Gloamling declares that it's going to kill you and then grins. See her teeth? See how they are obstructing the light from getting into her mouth? Looks pretty dark in there, compared to outside. Almost as if they're casting a shadow.... *POOF!*

In theory, you could take this to ridiculous levels. Does your enemy have long hair? Good, at least two of them are going to cross over each other, there's a shadow right there. Kick the dirt and make a little mound about half an inch tall - THAT looks like it has a shadow to me. Has your enemy swallowed anything in the last hour that has been enchanted with the Light spell? No? Must be pretty dark in their esophagus, I'll take a HiPS on that, please.

Nothing about the skill description says that the shadow must even be visible to the Assassin/Shadowdancer. Technically, they could claim that the lack of light deep inside someone's bowels was caused by their skin and muscle casting a shadow over their intestines. In a way, it's genuinely quite hard NOT to find some kind of shadow nearby!

Even better: The top layer of dirt on the ground is casting a shadow on the layer underneath it. Poof.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-21, 11:26 AM
Regeneration specificially seperates out damage from starvation/drowning/suffication.

The troll will still starve to death if you dont feed it. Arguably, since what a troll needs to eat is DMs disgression this could mean it had to eat a lot to survive when regenerating constantly.

It doesn't matter if the troll can wear a ring of sustenance whiles't still being Troll-in-a-can, the troll flesh lacks a respitory system, ergo dead troll. Which is why you can coup de gras them by cutting off their heads, they'd sufficate before they can grow it back.

Alex12
2007-11-21, 11:36 AM
It doesn't matter if the troll can wear a ring of sustenance whiles't still being Troll-in-a-can, the troll flesh lacks a respitory system, ergo dead troll. Which is why you can coup de gras them by cutting off their heads, they'd sufficate before they can grow it back.

Er, perhaps you aren't understanding what I meant. Capture a troll. Chain him up somewhere. When you need food, carve chunks out of the still-living troll. Lack of food never deals lethal damage per RAW, so he'll eventually fall unconscious, but that won't matter because his Regeneration still takes care of the nonlethal damage dealt by things like swords and axes. Yeah, I know it's inhumane.

hewhosaysfish
2007-11-21, 11:40 AM
EDIT: What Alex12 (curs'd ninja!) said.

F.L.
2007-11-21, 11:59 AM
Give it a ring of sustenance.

Am I the only one who finds giving a ring of sustenance to a troll to enable you to eat troll meat to be hilarious. Why not wear the ring yourself?

Fighteer
2007-11-21, 12:01 PM
Er, perhaps you aren't understanding what I meant. Capture a troll. Chain him up somewhere. When you need food, carve chunks out of the still-living troll. Lack of food never deals lethal damage per RAW, so he'll eventually fall unconscious, but that won't matter because his Regeneration still takes care of the nonlethal damage dealt by things like swords and axes. Yeah, I know it's inhumane.
Like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html)?

My absolute favorite so far (that literally had me laughing until I cried... at work no less) is the tower shield hiding behind itself.

Emperor Demonking
2007-11-21, 12:03 PM
Am I the only one who finds giving a ring of sustenance to a troll to enable you to eat troll meat to be hilarious. Why not wear the ring yourself?

You can sell troll meat.

The one with the towershield, reaches a new peak of insanity. In a good way.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-21, 12:11 PM
Er, perhaps you aren't understanding what I meant. Capture a troll. Chain him up somewhere. When you need food, carve chunks out of the still-living troll. Lack of food never deals lethal damage per RAW, so he'll eventually fall unconscious, but that won't matter because his Regeneration still takes care of the nonlethal damage dealt by things like swords and axes. Yeah, I know it's inhumane.

AAAH. right. sorry. Just had a flashback to DMing an idiot rogue that spent months trying to work out how to get Troll-in-a-can infinate rations. the theory being slice off part of troll, put in small tin so it couldn't outgrow the tin and come back as a troll. Then when you're hungry open the tin, slice off parts of the trollmeat seal the can and be sure to cook the meat all the way through. It took a whole damn evening to convince him it wouldn't work. Then he wen't around trying to sell the stupid plan to NPCs in every town they went through. for weeks. :smallmad:

If you've just got a troll chained up in the basement, then go for it. All the unpleasent meat you could ever want. There's a "illithid farming community" on the wizards site with much the same idea except an imprisoned hydra for infi-brains snackadge.

Blanks
2007-11-21, 12:15 PM
This worked in 2E:

Kill a troll. Chop of its head and leave it under the kings bed. Wait for regeneration fun.

hewhosaysfish
2007-11-21, 12:20 PM
This worked in 2E:

Kill a troll. Chop of its head and leave it under the kings bed. Wait for regeneration fun.

I keep telling those Mafia guys that horses don't regenerate but they wont listen...

Alex12
2007-11-21, 01:19 PM
AAAH. right. sorry. Just had a flashback to DMing an idiot rogue that spent months trying to work out how to get Troll-in-a-can infinate rations. the theory being slice off part of troll, put in small tin so it couldn't outgrow the tin and come back as a troll. Then when you're hungry open the tin, slice off parts of the trollmeat seal the can and be sure to cook the meat all the way through. It took a whole damn evening to convince him it wouldn't work. Then he wen't around trying to sell the stupid plan to NPCs in every town they went through. for weeks. :smallmad:
Wow. I pity you.


If you've just got a troll chained up in the basement, then go for it. All the unpleasent meat you could ever want. There's a "illithid farming community" on the wizards site with much the same idea except an imprisoned hydra for infi-brains snackadge.
Is that the same one I have in my sig? The one I personally came up with?:smallsmile: If not, I wouldn't mind a link.

Zherog
2007-11-21, 02:39 PM
Am I the only one who finds giving a ring of sustenance to a troll to enable you to eat troll meat to be hilarious. Why not wear the ring yourself?

In the adventure "Siege of the Spider Eaters" by Tim & Eileen Connors (found in Dungeon #137), well, I'll spoiler it just in case somebody is going to play that advenure:

There's a tribe of aranea; as a food source for the tribe, they have a hydra captured and heavily sedated. They slipped a ring of sustenance onto the hydra, and regularly carve hunks of meat from it. The hydra's regeneration ensures it doesn't die from the damage; the ring ensures it doesn't die from starvation brought about by its poison-induced coma.