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Tyger
2007-11-16, 02:14 PM
It seems that the Overland Flight spell, as nice as it is in so many ways, makes its use in combat somewhat limited. With its "average maneuverability" meaning that you can't hover and have to move at least 20 feet per round to avoid falling, it limits your casting options during combat.

Not only are you prevented from casting any full round casting time spells, but some spells require you to use a move action to direct them (Defenestrating Sphere, I'm looking at you!) but still leave your standard action free, which can enable you to both direct the spell and cast another the next round. While using Overland Flight though, you'd have to give up your standard action for a move action to prevent that tumble.

Any thoughts on this? Boots of Levitation are out (damned command activation times), Ring of Feather Falling helps with the falling, but doesn't prevent it...

Suggestions not only welcome but actually implored!

Zanatos777
2007-11-16, 02:18 PM
Wings of Flying. 54,000 gp= fly at will. Not cheap mind you.

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 02:20 PM
It seems that the Overland Flight spell, as nice as it is in so many ways, makes its use in combat somewhat limited. With its "average maneuverability" meaning that you can't hover and have to move at least 20 feet per round to avoid falling, it limits your casting options during combat.

Not only are you prevented from casting any full round casting time spells, but some spells require you to use a move action to direct them (Defenestrating Sphere, I'm looking at you!) but still leave your standard action free, which can enable you to both direct the spell and cast another the next round. While using Overland Flight though, you'd have to give up your standard action for a move action to prevent that tumble.

Any thoughts on this? Boots of Levitation are out (damned command activation times), Ring of Feather Falling helps with the falling, but doesn't prevent it...

Suggestions not only welcome but actually implored!

Not quite sure what you are asking. You can always spend a standard action to perform a move(that's what a double move is!). So either you move the sphere as your move, and then fly as your standard, or move as your move, and command the sphere as your standard. You can also break up fullround casting spells. You could move 20', then take your standard to start casting a full rounder. On your next turn, finish casting as your standard, then move 20' more. Overland flight is supposed to be a utility spell. Giving it the same combat mobility as fly would defeat the purpose of the spell. Its still incredibly useful, since 9/10 times, you don't really need your move action while spellcasting, and you are still probably out of harms reach simply by virtue of flying.

Thinker
2007-11-16, 02:21 PM
Phantom Steed is great. It can't fly until level 14, but once it gets there you never have to cast another mobility spell. Just use Fly when you get into combat at lower levels.

Jasdoif
2007-11-16, 02:22 PM
Overland flight, as its name might indicate, is suited for overland transportation, with its long duration and no risk of nonlethal damage from overland hustling.

I'd suggest you just cast fly when you think combat's impending.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-16, 02:22 PM
If your high enough level you just use Phantom Steed instead.

Kaelik
2007-11-16, 02:23 PM
1) Don't use spells with move action concentration.
2) Use the feat or spell (SpC) that allow you to concentrate as a swift action.
3) Cast full round spells by moving, beginning to cast, then completing the casting next round, then moving again (sure you effectively lose a round, but you shouldn't be using full round casting in combat much anyways.)
4) Upgrade to Elemental Body (Air) when you can. (7th level spell, hours per level duration, 60ft perfect fly speed, bunch of immunities, SA and crits among them) In the Spell Compendium.

5) If position is important, spiral up one turn and down the next.

Aquaseafoam
2007-11-16, 02:30 PM
Ring of Feather Fall.

Problem Solved. :smallbiggrin:

Tyger
2007-11-16, 02:31 PM
Not quite sure what you are asking. You can always spend a standard action to perform a move(that's what a double move is!). So either you move the sphere as your move, and then fly as your standard, or move as your move, and command the sphere as your standard.


Except that if you can get in a position to not need movement you can use your move action to command the sphere (all kinds of fun there!) then use your standard action to cast another spell. Double whammy. Hell, you could get two speheres going, then use your two move actions each round to command them. :) How's that for windy pain and death. :)

Yes, I know its a utility spell, and under normal circumstances, but if its up already, its nice to be able to use it.

EDIT:

To the Ninjas...

Yup Phantom Steed is on the list, but only level 10 now, so no flight with it.

Ring of Feather Fall will slow my fall, but not stop it. And if one is flying over hazardous areas (such as areas filled with enemy bad guys :smallbiggrin: ) then its not the best solution.

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 02:39 PM
Inspired by another thread, you could carry an Immoveable Rod around. While you are flying, have it deactivated. When you finish moving, click it and stick it, and you can hang in mid air while holding it. You still have 1 hand free to cast with even. Just be warry if you DM says you need some kind of str check to hang, or some kind of concentration check to cast while hanging. There is no RAW for this situation though, so it should be perfectly legal.

When everything is fully defenestrated, you can click it again, and resume flying.

JaxGaret
2007-11-16, 02:42 PM
Inspired by another thread, you could carry an Immoveable Rod around. While you are flying, have it deactivated. When you finish moving, click it and stick it, and you can hang in mid air while holding it. You still have 1 hand free to cast with even. Just be warry if you DM says you need some kind of str check to hang, or some kind of concentration check to cast while hanging. There is no RAW for this situation though, so it should be perfectly legal.

When everything is fully defenestrated, you can click it again, and resume flying.

Hey, that's not a bad idea as a workaround for this OF guy.

Tyger
2007-11-16, 02:43 PM
Inspired by another thread, you could carry an Immoveable Rod around. While you are flying, have it deactivated. When you finish moving, click it and stick it, and you can hang in mid air while holding it. You still have 1 hand free to cast with even. Just be warry if you DM says you need some kind of str check to hang, or some kind of concentration check to cast while hanging. There is no RAW for this situation though, so it should be perfectly legal.

When everything is fully defenestrated, you can click it again, and resume flying.

Possibilities here, but still gives up an action. I like the direction you're heading in here though. Boots of Levitation do the same, with no DM fiat mess ups... though an extra 2500 GP too. Hmmm... now if there was only a way to have that command time or button pushing reduced to a free action. After all, a move action to push a button, but I can draw three seperate arrows for free actions??? Jeez.:smallconfused:

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 02:48 PM
Possibilities here, but still gives up an action. I like the direction you're heading in here though. Boots of Levitation do the same, with no DM fiat mess ups... though an extra 2500 GP too. Hmmm... now if there was only a way to have that command time or button pushing reduced to a free action. After all, a move action to push a button, but I can draw three seperate arrows for free actions??? Jeez.:smallconfused:

Even better, put the Immoveable Rod into a Casting Glove. It holds metamagic rods, why not other types of rods as well? Kind of makes it hard to reach the button though.

See if your DM will let you click-it as part of a move. You can draw a weapon as part of a move, why not click your thumb over a button? Its not turning it into a non-action, its integrating it into part of an action you'd have to take anyway.

JaxGaret
2007-11-16, 02:50 PM
Even better, put the Immoveable Rod into a Casting Glove.

Is it just me that thinks that activating an Immovable Rod that is stored in a Casting Glove might be a very bad idea? :smallsmile:

Ulzgoroth
2007-11-16, 02:55 PM
It ought to be possible to obtain some kind of harness so that you don't have to hang one-handed from a little metal stick.

Mobile Spellcasting (from Complete Adventurer) would help here, though I imagine that a feat wasn't the solution you were looking for. And the concentration checks are somewhat demanding.

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 03:02 PM
Is it just me that thinks that activating an Immovable Rod that is stored in a Casting Glove might be a very bad idea? :smallsmile:

How so? Wouldn't that just make you hang by your glove? Its not like you are expanding the one rod with the 7 buttons, one of which makes a LADDER FORCEABLE SHOOT OUT FROM IT while inside of your Casting Glove. I forget for the life of me what rod that was, but it had all kinds of nifty things it could become.

Also, you could sew the Immoveable Rod into the seat of your pants. Then you could just sit down on it everytime you clicked the button.

SoD
2007-11-16, 03:04 PM
You're thinking the Rod of Lordly Might.

Take the winged template from Savage Species, it's (I think) +2 or +1 LA, but gives a +4 to dex, and if your total dex is 17 or higher, you have a perfect flight speed! Of your land speed +20 feet.

JaxGaret
2007-11-16, 03:07 PM
How so? Wouldn't that just make you hang by your glove?

I don't know... would it? It's inside your glove... it might immobilize your arm, it might make you hang by your arm, it might completely immobilize you, who knows?

Until you try it, that is :smallsmile:

Tyger
2007-11-16, 03:17 PM
You're thinking the Rod of Lordly Might.

Take the winged template from Savage Species, it's (I think) +2 or +1 LA, but gives a +4 to dex, and if your total dex is 17 or higher, you have a perfect flight speed! Of your land speed +20 feet.

Wizard. LA is not an option. :smallcool:

Keld Denar
2007-11-16, 03:17 PM
I don't know... would it? It's inside your glove... it might immobilize your arm, it might make you hang by your arm, it might completely immobilize you, who knows?

Until you try it, that is :smallsmile:

The question is....if it were to completely immobilize you, would anyone be able to deactivate it? You'd pretty much have to be put into an AMF to supress the effect, so someone could take the glove off of you. I'm pretty sure the str check to move the rod would probably break your fingers if someone tried to do so without the AMF.

Alternately, a dispel magic targeted on the glove, followed immediately by a dispel magic on the rod would probably free you long enough that you could remove the glove, or deactivate the rod. But then again, can you deactivate the rod while its suppressed by the dispel magic?

Such are the questions that keep me awake at night.

JaxGaret
2007-11-16, 03:25 PM
The question is....if it were to completely immobilize you, would anyone be able to deactivate it? You'd pretty much have to be put into an AMF to supress the effect, so someone could take the glove off of you. I'm pretty sure the str check to move the rod would probably break your fingers if someone tried to do so without the AMF.

Alternately, a dispel magic targeted on the glove, followed immediately by a dispel magic on the rod would probably free you long enough that you could remove the glove, or deactivate the rod. But then again, can you deactivate the rod while its suppressed by the dispel magic?

Such are the questions that keep me awake at night.

:smallsmile: Indeed, it is an interesting question.

Chronos
2007-11-16, 04:07 PM
See if your DM will let you click-it as part of a move. You can draw a weapon as part of a move, why not click your thumb over a button? Its not turning it into a non-action, its integrating it into part of an action you'd have to take anyway.Also a bad idea. An action you take during your move is assumed to occur when you've moved halfway. So if your move is, say, 40 feet, you'd move 20 feet, immobilize the rod, then keep moving another 20 feet.

Person_Man
2007-11-16, 04:13 PM
Any full arcane caster needs to find a way to remove themselves from harm. Usually this involves Greater Invisibility or something similar. Flight or Overland Flight is useful mainly to position yourself above the combatants so that you don't have to worry about people standing in between you and your intended target(s). Fly and Overland Flight and various magic items all accomplish this. Maneuverability is rarely an issue.

Aquaseafoam
2007-11-16, 06:04 PM
Dragonwrought Kobold?

deadseashoals
2007-11-16, 07:35 PM
Fly. That third level spell. If you really can't deal with a standard action to cast it, quicken it, or just cast it before combat. It's possible to anticipate many of the combats that happen in a typical campaign.

Tyger
2007-11-16, 09:24 PM
Fly. That third level spell. If you really can't deal with a standard action to cast it, quicken it, or just cast it before combat. It's possible to anticipate many of the combats that happen in a typical campaign.

Castig Fly while under the influence of Overland Flight seems a bit wasteful, but maybe that's just me. :)

deadseashoals
2007-11-17, 05:29 AM
Castig Fly while under the influence of Overland Flight seems a bit wasteful, but maybe that's just me. :)

The extra 20 feet of movement and extra step of maneuverability makes it leaps and bounds better for combat. Minimum forward speed is a real pain to deal with, and turning angles and maximum ascent inclines are also awful. It makes the game much easier... Not to mention, it's a lot more advantageous to cast fly on your whole party than it is to be an ass and use only overland flight on yourself. Fighters need it just as much as wizards do.

I might note that I also favor sorcerers, and would not even bother learning overland flight. Spamming fly is not quite as viable for wizards (though mass fly is better than overland flight IMO, and they're both 5th-level spells).