I am stuck in the Void (due to the deck of many things)

[Albanymusicfund]

Hello Gianttip,

I hope everyone is well in whatever time zone you may be in. I am in a bit of a pickle. My character was drawing from the Deck of Many Things and was sent to the void. For the sake of my question I would like to assume that there is no DM intervention here, how could I escape from the Void? I was thinking that possibly class retraining into a Risen Martyr could possibly help.

Even if the party knew where I was, they cannot planeshift to my specific plane of entrapment because of story reasons.

Any ideas from you guys?

Best,
AlbanyMusicFund

[Rynjin]

Pretty sure you can't retrain without a trainer, so you're probably boned.

This is why you don't draw from the Deck of Many Things. Or include it in your game in the first place for that matter.

[Paragon]

Maybe you can turn your current PC into a homebrewed vestige and the next char you create as a binder can bind him ? :D

[Doctor Despair]

My character was drawing from the Deck of Many Things and was sent to the void. For the sake of my question I would like to assume that there is no DM intervention here, how could I escape from the Void?


Even if the party knew where I was, they cannot planeshift to my specific plane of entrapment because of story reasons.


Alright, so the void reads:


The Void: This black card spells instant disaster. The character’s body continues to function, as though comatose, but her psyche is trapped in a prison somewhere—in an object on a far plane or planet, possibly in the possession of an outsider. A wish or a miracle does not bring the character back, instead merely revealing the plane of entrapment. Draw no more cards.

So your body is alive, which is a good start for character-hood, but your mind is sent elsewhere. This means that you should still be able to take purely mental actions, but possibly could be precluded from using items that require mental actions.

You were considering Risen Martyr, so we know your character was good, but what other abilities does your character have? It could be important and helpful. I'll start from the assumption that you're straight commoner.

Wish or Miracle reveal where your character's mind is (and conveniently, the deck can even provide wishes), but you can't planeshift there. If the restriction is specific to planeshift, there are other spells and abilities that allow you to traverse planes. Gate is an iconic option for moving between planes. If another ability would let your party travel to your mind, that could resolve the issue; they could also send your body to your mind, although that only creates another problem, haha. Alternatively, if your mind is in the possession of an outsider, you could summon the outsider with that same Gate spell.

Let's say the DM is adamant that your mind can't leave that plane, and your party can't travel to that plane. Your party could kill you by attacking your body. Having done that, your "psyche" should be dead as well, leaving you free to be raised (or preemptively cloned). However, your DM might rule that the psyche is synonymous with the soul, and that your soul is not "free and willing to return" because of the deck.

Let's say the DM is just absolutely determined that nothing you try will work (and why did they give you the deck in the first place if they only wanted to punish you?), then your party can draw from the deck to try to hit the Vizier card:


Vizier: This card empowers the character drawing it with the one-time ability to call upon a source of wisdom to solve any single problem or answer fully any question upon her request. The query or request must be made within one year. Whether the information gained can be successfully acted upon is another question entirely.

Basically it's a yes-level pseudo-divination effect to get your DM to create a way for you to get your mind back.

If that fails and your DM just wants your character dead with no recourse? Oh look, it's your character's identical twin with the same backstory and motives! He's been exchanging letters as a pen pal for the whole campaign, so he knows all the details of the plot without needing to be filled in, and has all the same abilities (minus one level)!

[Albanymusicfund]

Alright, so the void reads:

You were considering Risen Martyr, so we know your character was good, but what other abilities does your character have? It could be important and helpful. I'll start from the assumption that you're straight commoner.

Thank you very much for this incredibly helpful and detailed guide. For a bit more information, I am playing a LG 14th level Warblade/Crusader/Eternal Blade which is human for stat purposes, but for fluff is a Quarter-Elf. I already tried pitching the Iron Heart Surge maneuver to my DM, but it was pretty shoddy foundation if it could actually work. We are under the employ of an epic-level Artificier and I had to draw that card to save the high-level Wizard who is central to the story.

Thank you again.

[Rynjin]

Drawing further from the deck seems like an...iffy prospect, to be sure. Isn't there one that just kills the whole party, no save?

[Doctor Despair]

Drawing further from the deck seems like an...iffy prospect, to be sure. Isn't there one that just kills the whole party, no save?

Not that I can see in the resource I have. As described in the OP, there's cards that effectively insta-kill the card-drawer, destroy all wealth, etc, but nothing that wipes the whole party. In fact, if the draw-er transfers all items and wealth to another party member, it neuters several cards entirely. With that said, I didn't know what level their party was or what resources they have available apart from the deck. Obviously having access to level 9 spells could obviate the need for the deck. Barring sentimentality, it's probably most appropriate to roll another character in terms of risk-reward, but that's not what OP was asking for.

[Albanymusicfund]

Drawing further from the deck seems like an...iffy prospect, to be sure. Isn't there one that just kills the whole party, no save?

I think I have to agree that this would be the unthinkable option. Seeing as my party no longer has to draw any cards for story reasons, I would rather not subject them to this card deck.

[Albanymusicfund]

Not that I can see in the resource I have. As described in the OP, there's cards that effectively insta-kill the card-drawer, destroy all wealth, etc, but nothing that wipes the whole party. In fact, if the draw-er transfers all items and wealth to another party member, it neuters several cards entirely. With that said, I didn't know what level their party was or what resources they have available apart from the deck. Obviously having access to level 9 spells could obviate the need for the deck. Barring sentimentality, it's probably most appropriate to roll another character in terms of risk-reward, but that's not what OP was asking for.

Level 9 spells are more than accessible for my party.

[Doctor Despair]

Oh, another tool that might allow shenanigans to recall your character's mind: the Teleport through Time (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) spell. I wouldn't personally recommend it unless nothing else works though, because historically (pun intended), time travel has been quite the can of worms in literature.

[Thurbane]

Reading about the effects of the Void instantly made me think about Disembodied Spirit (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?635960), which I was looking into recently.

Unfortunately that template also lacks info on how to undo the condition.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If your group decides to draw from the Deck to undo your misfortune, have them toss the deck into a Heward's Handy Haversack and use its ability to put anything on top to draw only the cards they want, since they're at the top of the deck. :smallbiggrin:

[aglondier]

This would be a good time for an intelligent magic item to be equipped to your character. It would automatically take control of the body, and keep it going until the party can get your mind back.

[Albanymusicfund]

If your group decides to draw from the Deck to undo your misfortune, have them toss the deck into a Heward's Handy Haversack and use its ability to put anything on top to draw only the cards they want, since they're at the top of the deck. :smallbiggrin:

Yooooooooo. Thank you so much for this advice!

[Psyren]

If your group decides to draw from the Deck to undo your misfortune, have them toss the deck into a Heward's Handy Haversack and use its ability to put anything on top to draw only the cards they want, since they're at the top of the deck. :smallbiggrin:

That would put the whole deck on top as that is the item. The individual cards are part of that item's entry.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That would put the whole deck on top as that is the item. The individual cards are part of that item's entry.And yet they're individual items in and of themselves, else they couldn't be separated from the stack by drawing them.

[Doctor Despair]

Have a completely loyal minion draw all the cards until they hit Vizier to find out how to recall OP's psyche.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Have a completely loyal minion draw all the cards until they hit Vizier to find out how to recall OP's psyche.Best done via a summoning spell.

Disposable minions are the best minions.

[Psyren]

And yet they're individual items in and of themselves, else they couldn't be separated from the stack by drawing them.

But they are never actually separated from the item. Even when you draw a card, the deck itself - the item - still consists of 22.`

[icefractal]

If you have access to Wish (or Miracle), it mentions that this reveals the plane of entrapment. Also, while those can't bring the soul back directly, it doesn't say anything about not bringing the party (plus the body) to the soul (which Wish can do "regardless of local conditions"). Might be a problem is the soul is guarded by something nasty, but otherwise there you go.

[Teth]

Freedom (specific counter for similar effects), Miracle in XP mode (i.e. "petition deity" rather than directly trying to rescue the person), Wish and Plane Shift, Wish and Wish (i.e. "ignore teleport restrictions").

Using an item based off a 5th level spell to try to cheat an artifact sounds like a good way to find death. Minions are slightly better, although some of the draws are hazardous to bystanders, while others would probably make you lose the Deck.

[unseenmage]

Wish to find out where you are.

Whatever the highest spell level appropriate divination spell is to determine what kind of containment you're subject to.

Then, so long as your soul/mind isn't trapped by one of the very few things that prevent it, be slain and then subjected to True Resurrection.

Barring that? Play an alt character while your friends delve into the dark pits of wherever you are trapped to rescue yourself.
This is one of the few things I like Leadership for. Provides a nice neat canned character to step into the vacancy left by their boss.

[Faily]

From my experience, when The Void has been drawn in Deck Of Many Things, the GM usually has a small side-quest/adventure for the party to rescue the trapped-PC's soul.

Since it's your character that's trapped, maybe you can play a temporary character for the adventure. Maybe a relative or follower of your PC (since you seem to be high level), or someone who might have lead on where to go to rescue your PC.

[Crake]

If your group decides to draw from the Deck to undo your misfortune, have them toss the deck into a Heward's Handy Haversack and use its ability to put anything on top to draw only the cards they want, since they're at the top of the deck. :smallbiggrin:

Artifacts aren't affected by mortal magic.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Artifacts aren't affected by mortal magic.They can't be created by mortal means or destroyed by mortal magic. Nothing about being affected by mortal effort. Unless you have a quote?


But they are never actually separated from the item. Even when you draw a card, the deck itself - the item - still consists of 22.`Source for this?

[Psyren]

Source for this?

...The item's entry? "A deck of many things contains 22 cards." Draw the whole deck and hand it to someone else (or more likely, leave it on the ground for them to pick up since you probably got imprisoned), and it'll have 22 cards.

[Crake]

They can't be created by mortal means or destroyed by mortal magic. Nothing about being affected by mortal effort. Unless you have a quote?

Source for this?

"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

Second last sentence of the antimagic field spell.

Even if your theory worked, the cards would have no effect, because they must be draw from the deck to have their magic bestown. Your method doesn't draw them from the deck, it draws them from the haversack.

As for the actual topic of the thread, you're basically out of luck if your party can't even plane shift to your plane. Your best bet would be to come up with something with the DM that brings your character back. Perhaps he has made a secret pact with the outsider that had his soul, in exchange for his freedom, or something like that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

...The item's entry? "A deck of many things contains 22 cards." Draw the whole deck and hand it to someone else (or more likely, leave it on the ground for them to pick up since you probably got imprisoned), and it'll have 22 cards.Then you can redraw the same card over and over, since it can't be removed from the deck, even if you draw it?

And how does that map to, "I have a box of 22 rocks. I removed one. Now I have a box of 21 rocks and 1 rock that's not in the box." Because it's the same logic.


"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

Second last sentence of the antimagic field spell.

Even if your theory worked, the cards would have no effect, because they must be draw from the deck to have their magic bestown. Your method doesn't draw them from the deck, it draws them from the haversack.

As for the actual topic of the thread, you're basically out of luck if your party can't even plane shift to your plane. Your best bet would be to come up with something with the DM that brings your character back. Perhaps he has made a secret pact with the outsider that had his soul, in exchange for his freedom, or something like that."...mortal magic such as this." But haversacks are very much different than antimagic field spells in a whole bunch of different ways. For one, it's a magic item, not a spell, and for two, it's very, very different conceptually.

So if using the haversack is extremely different in almost every way, does it still fit in the "such as this" paradigm? I'm not convinced that it does.

[Psyren]

Then you can redraw the same card over and over, since it can't be removed from the deck, even if you draw it?

Yes, and in fact the Deck specifically states this to be the case :smallconfused:

[Telonius]

Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical about the "Stuff in a haystack and pull out a needle" Haversack solution. If you could do that, a Haversack test would be a standard thing for all shops. Put the stuff in, pull out "a fake coin," "a cursed [thing you know is in the bag]," "a stolen [thing you know is in the bag]," and so on. Could also revolutionize any task that needs you to separate one thing from another. (Mark it down for another Tippyverse item, I guess). You'd also be able to use it for immediate Lich phylactery detection, if you're not sure what part of the loot it is. Take everything that isn't bolted down, put it in the bag, then pull out "Zaxxorg the Lich's Phylactery."

Yeah, magic is magic, but I'd probably rule that you need to have a clear picture in your head of the specific thing you're looking for. If you haven't specifically seen it, or don't know what it looks like, you can't pull it out. For the Deck of Many Things specifically, it just wouldn't work. A CL-9 magic item certainly shouldn't be able to wreck the whole point of an artifact-level item. If it did work, it would be common knowledge, and everybody who could find a copy would already have all of the positive benefits you could find in the deck.

[Thurbane]

Lets face it: even if the suggested use of the Handy Haversack on the DoMT was RAW, which I personally don't think it is - would any sane DM let this happen?

Since artifacts exist entirely at the whim of the DM, assuming this reading was enforced, you'd be bonkers to ever put one into a campaign. Essentially you'd be saying to every PC (and NPC, for the matter) in the world "Here, have a whole bunch of crazy powerful permanent buffs and other benefits for free".

[El Dorado]

This sounds like your party is going to have to rescue you. They might have to jump through some hoops to make it happen, particularly if your GM has really customized this deck.

[tomandtish]

Not that I can see in the resource I have. As described in the OP, there's cards that effectively insta-kill the card-drawer, destroy all wealth, etc, but nothing that wipes the whole party. In fact, if the draw-er transfers all items and wealth to another party member, it neuters several cards entirely. With that said, I didn't know what level their party was or what resources they have available apart from the deck. Obviously having access to level 9 spells could obviate the need for the deck. Barring sentimentality, it's probably most appropriate to roll another character in terms of risk-reward, but that's not what OP was asking for.

Actually, given that the wording of Talons says "every magic item owned or possessed by the character", I'd argue that just handing them to another PC isn't going to cut it. You'd have to legitimately pass them on with no intent of reclaiming them.

[RNightstalker]

Hello Gianttip,

I hope everyone is well in whatever time zone you may be in. I am in a bit of a pickle. My character was drawing from the Deck of Many Things and was sent to the void. For the sake of my question I would like to assume that there is no DM intervention here, how could I escape from the Void? I was thinking that possibly class retraining into a Risen Martyr could possibly help.

Even if the party knew where I was, they cannot planeshift to my specific plane of entrapment because of story reasons.

Any ideas from you guys?

Best,
AlbanyMusicFund

Remember your character is not in "The Void". Your character's psyche is trapped in a prison somewhere, in an object on a far plane or planet. It could also possibly be in possession of an outsider. First thing's first: find your character's psyche. Someone needs to cast wish or miracle or find/buy a ring of three wishes or luckblade with wishes remaining. There are also rules for purchasing spellcasting services.
Once the psyche is found, there are many possible ways to go. If it's on a different planet, you don't need to planeshift. You can really luck out and the possible outsider that possesses the psyche could be the right hand man of your character's deity. We assume it's an evil outsider, but it isn't stated.
DM "intervention" isn't so much needed as DM ruling on where the psyche is. Until that has been determined, the rest is an exercise in futility.

[JyP]

For a bit more information, I am playing a LG 14th level Warblade/Crusader/Eternal Blade which is human for stat purposes, but for fluff is a Quarter-Elf. I already tried pitching the Iron Heart Surge maneuver to my DM, but it was pretty shoddy foundation if it could actually work. We are under the employ of an epic-level Artificier and I had to draw that card to save the high-level Wizard who is central to the story.
Thank you again.
well, with such an employer and having just saved such a victim, you have 2 hooks to divine where your psyche is and gate there - the DM's help in fact :smallsmile: You even have a 3rd hook with being a Crusader - surely your divinity can help in some ways...

[Xervous]

Actually, given that the wording of Talons says "every magic item owned or possessed by the character", I'd argue that just handing them to another PC isn't going to cut it. You'd have to legitimately pass them on with no intent of reclaiming them.

All party wealth is legally owned by the guild. A party member is loaned items and equipment and thus only ever possesses the items. Artifact tax evasion and many GM eye rolls.

[Segev]

Yes, and in fact the Deck specifically states this to be the case :smallconfused:

This has always bothered me. Why make it a deck, then, rather than a die? I mean, you typically resolve it with die rolls, anyway!

[Crake]

"...mortal magic such as this." But haversacks are very much different than antimagic field spells in a whole bunch of different ways. For one, it's a magic item, not a spell, and for two, it's very, very different conceptually.

"Such as this" is a very broad qualifier, and since the only specific in that sentence is "Mortal magic", then "such as this" isn't referring to the function of the spell, but rather then fact that the spell is mortal magic. Thus, the sentence could be logically restructured to be written as "This spell is mortal magic, artifacts and deities are not affected by such magic".

[Psyren]

This has always bothered me. Why make it a deck, then, rather than a die? I mean, you typically resolve it with die rolls, anyway!

Because tarot cards are spooky/ominous/fun, even in-universe.

(Also, most folks don't have a d22 laying around :smalltongue:)

[Thurbane]

It surprised me that 3E seems to have no limit on the number of cards you announce that you are going to draw.

Went back and checked the 2E DMG, and was surprised to find the wording was the same.

Checked the 1E DMG, which had a maximum of 4 cards that you could announce. I could have sworn 2E was the same, but apparently not (2E wording on that is quite similar to the 3E wording).