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View Full Version : Yet another monk remix - musing



Quietus
2021-09-19, 06:24 PM
I was reading the thread about Treantmonk's monk remix, and it got me thinking. One of the biggest issues with the monk is how feast or famine they are - either you end up never having enough ki to feel like you're being a Monk, or you're dropping four stunning strikes per turn into something to burn out legendary resistances. Most of my thoughts here focus either around that, or around basic QOL improvements to the monk. I'm curious, would the changes below make people more or less interested in playing a Monk? Any glaring issues I've missed?



Martial Arts - Damage die starts at d6, scales to d12.
Flurry of Blows - goes away. You get bonus action attacks for 1d6+dex already, and in tier 3, I would upgrade this to 2 attacks. Probably in place of Tongue of the Sun and Moon; "talk to everything" seems like such a weird ability to gain.
Magic weapons - Add into the level 6 ability, "If the monk's designated weapon is a magic weapon, its magic applies to their unarmed strikes. If the weapon requires attunement, the monk must be attuned to it to gain this benefit"
Stillness of Mind - becomes a bonus action, treated as a "ki action", per below. Can be taken any time you're charmed or frightened, even if that effect would otherwise stop you from taking that action

And the biggest change - I'd remove ki altogether, and allow one use of abilities that previously required ki every round. This means you can do one (and only one) of the following each round :
Patient Defense (Bonus action)
Step of the Wind (Bonus action)
Stunning Strike (Free action, 1/turn, triggers on attack)
Stillness of Mind (Bonus action, as noted above)
Diamond soul (Free action, spends your "ki action" for your upcoming turn if you succeed the save on the reroll, triggers on a failed save)
Empty Body (Action)

Not accounted for : The return-throw effect on deflect missiles (might just make that free, or spend your "ki action" for your upcoming turn?), Quickened Healing (Tasha's ability, needs a major rework), Focused Aim (Tasha's ability, needs some thought - possibly make it "add proficiency to an attack roll"?), subclass abilities.

Reach Weapon
2021-09-19, 07:09 PM
Any glaring issues I've missed?

An 11th level ability to use Stunning Strike to deliver a concussive blow as an option (target CON or INT) would be a solid boost for Monks.
As I mentioned in the Trent-alt-monk thread, I think having an alternative to overcoming AC or CON saves in the chassis would increase the Monk's effectiveness.

Saelethil
2021-09-20, 12:39 PM
My only problem with what you’ve proposed is that I like ki. I enjoy the choice to play recklessly and flurry/stun as much as possible or play smart and spread it out. Here are my proposed changes (numbers are associated levels):
1) Martial Arts go d6-d12
2) Step of the wind no longer costs ki and is wrapped into unarmored movement (I considered moving this to level 1)
3) It no longer costs a ki point to throw the missile when they use Deflect Missiles
7) Stillness of Mind works even if you can’t use an action (I thought about just giving immunity to charm and/or fear)
8) Prof. in Wisdom saves
10) additional ASI
12) Perfect Self is moved to 12 and gives ki equal to PB (renamed to Flowing Ki or something)
14) Ki reroll for Diamond Soul is made with advantage
15) Timeless Body makes them immune to exhaustion and doubles their lifespan
16-19)?
20) +2 to Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom to a maximum of 22. Regain 1 ki at the start of each turn (called Perfect Self)

I’m not as familiar with tier 4 monks and didn’t have any simple ideas up there but I feel like the earlier changes would still help the late game.

Quietus
2021-09-20, 01:10 PM
As I mentioned in the Trent-alt-monk thread, I think having an alternative to overcoming AC or CON saves in the chassis would increase the Monk's effectiveness.

I see where you're coming from, but aside from doing something like giving them maneuvers, I don't see an easy way to slip something like that into the base chassis. To me that's more the purview of subclasses, with Open Hand, 4Elements, etc adding abilities like that.


My only problem with what you’ve proposed is that I like ki. I enjoy the choice to play recklessly and flurry/stun as much as possible or play smart and spread it out. Here are my proposed changes (numbers are associated levels):
1) Martial Arts go d6-d12
2) Step of the wind no longer costs ki and is wrapped into unarmored movement (I considered moving this to level 1)
3) It no longer costs a ki point to throw the missile when they use Deflect Missiles
7) Stillness of Mind works even if you can’t use an action (I thought about just giving immunity to charm and/or fear)
8) Prof. in Wisdom saves
10) additional ASI
12) Perfect Self is moved to 12 and gives ki equal to PB (renamed to Flowing Ki or something)
14) Ki reroll for Diamond Soul is made with advantage
15) Timeless Body makes them immune to exhaustion and doubles their lifespan
16-19)?
20) +2 to Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom to a maximum of 22. Regain 1 ki at the start of each turn (called Perfect Self)

I’m not as familiar with tier 4 monks and didn’t have any simple ideas up there but I feel like the earlier changes would still help the late game.

I get that some people do like the normal risk/reward of pouring on the ki to go nova; it does really underline that my take on the monk here is closer to Rogue in the go-all-day approach, without a lot of nova ability. And I do have to rework the capstone; when I was passing this back and forth last night, my thought was that once per long rest, no action required, you can activate a mode that lasts for one minute, where you can use any number of Ki actions in a given turn. Call it "apotheosis", or "opening the gates", or something like that.

Amechra
2021-09-20, 01:16 PM
I see where you're coming from, but aside from doing something like giving them maneuvers, I don't see an easy way to slip something like that into the base chassis.

Non-Strength-based shoves and grapples, maybe?

strangebloke
2021-09-20, 01:18 PM
I'm a pretty big fan of Kane0's fix he just posted in the homebrew section

Kane0
2021-09-20, 04:49 PM
Linky (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636639-Monk-base-class-tweaks), happy to have extra input.