Cavalier + PAM + Warcaster + Booming Blade + Crusher = Inifinite knockback machine?

[Greywander]

This is such an oddly specific build, but it should be really good at what it does, and might not be too much of a waste.

Sadly, this needs 18 levels in Cavalier fighter to get the infinite OAs (more specifically, one OA per turn, rather than per round). I wish we could get the same or a similar ability without needing to go so deep into one class. But the only other option is Tunnel Fighter from now-ancient UA or Magic Jarring into a monster that has a trait like this.

The basic idea is that a monster approaches you, provokes an OA due to PAM, you use Warcaster to replace that OA with a spell, specifically Booming Blade, which will cause even more damage if they move, and then you use Crusher to push them away from you out of melee range. This way, the enemy is stuck outside of melee range and either has to move, triggering the extra damage from Booming Blade, or stand still and use whatever ranged option they have. And because you're a Cavalier, you can do this for every enemy that approaches you. If you end up with enemies next to you, then you can just Disengage and take a 5 foot step back, so you can repeat the whole song and dance the next round, otherwise you might be better off Dodging.

I really wish there was a way to fit 8 levels of Arcana cleric on this, since you would be able to double dip on Potent Spellcasting and add your WIS mod to both the initial damage and to the secondary damage.

The weakness of this build is two-fold: First, ranged enemies. Second, if the terrain is open enough, enemies can just walk around you. So you'd probably want to team up with some party members who can address those issues. Wall spells and the like can help restrict how the enemy can move, forcing them to pass you. A monk or a sniper of your own can eliminate ranged enemies. The Blind Fighting style with a Darkness or Fog Cloud could also probably help a lot. There's always having a friendly paladin to boost saves and a friendly Artillerist artificer to boost AC and grant temp HP every round. A second tank can help extend the area you can control and force enemies to tackle one or the other of you.

[Lunali]

It should be noted that booming blade is only an effective choice if you want the damage and/or for them to trigger the extra damage and move next to you. If you'd prefer they stayed away, cavalier+pam+crusher would be sufficient as hitting with the opportunity attack will drop their speed to 0.

[Abracadangit]

The cavalier's level 18 ability makes a distinction between your "normal reaction" and the one granted by the class ability, a "special reaction" that can "only... make an opportunity attack."

A DM who's not so forgiving might say you can't convert the special reaction to a spell via War Caster, as the ability dictates you can only use that reaction to specifically make an opportunity attack.

If I was the DM, I might let you do it for no reason other than a high-level cavalier is such a rare Pokemon. But for the DMs who would say no, I see where they're coming from.

[CheddarChampion]

I think an enemy could take the disengage action to approach you without provoking an attack?

That could still be considered a win though.

Rogues and mounted characters could approach without losing their action.

[quindraco]

This is such an oddly specific build, but it should be really good at what it does, and might not be too much of a waste.

Sadly, this needs 18 levels in Cavalier fighter to get the infinite OAs (more specifically, one OA per turn, rather than per round). I wish we could get the same or a similar ability without needing to go so deep into one class. But the only other option is Tunnel Fighter from now-ancient UA or Magic Jarring into a monster that has a trait like this.

The basic idea is that a monster approaches you, provokes an OA due to PAM, you use Warcaster to replace that OA with a spell, specifically Booming Blade,

Booming Blade has two targets, so it can't be used with War Caster. It's popular to homebrew the spell to not count as having two targets (which opens up War Caster to a wide array of other spells that don't normally work with it, like Burning Hands), so check with your DM.


which will cause even more damage if they move, and then you use Crusher to push them away from you out of melee range.

You would have to specifically use a Quarterstaff, unless your DM house-rules that you can use PAM's bludgeoning strike on OAs. Since you don't have Sentinel, the target can resume moving towards you - BB will damage it again, if you're allowed to War Caster with BB, but it won't stop it. Since by default you won't be using a Reach weapon, this whole plan only works on enemies with only 5-foot reach.

[Flechette63]

Booming Blade has two targets, so it can't be used with War Caster. It's popular to homebrew the spell to not count as having two targets (which opens up War Caster to a wide array of other spells that don't normally work with it, like Burning Hands), so check with your DM.


I've seen this crop up a couple times. My understanding is RAI Booming Blade works with Warcaster (the target is the attacked creature, not yourself and the creature or your weapon and the creature). My personal reading of the RAW is in alignment with this. Still, disagreement is common enough that checking with the DM is good advice.

[JackPhoenix]

Booming Blade has two targets, so it can't be used with War Caster. It's popular to homebrew the spell to not count as having two targets (which opens up War Caster to a wide array of other spells that don't normally work with it, like Burning Hands), so check with your DM.

Booming Blade doesn't have two targets. Range =/= target.

[kazaryu]

This is such an oddly specific build, but it should be really good at what it does, and might not be too much of a waste.

Sadly, this needs 18 levels in Cavalier fighter to get the infinite OAs (more specifically, one OA per turn, rather than per round). I wish we could get the same or a similar ability without needing to go so deep into one class. But the only other option is Tunnel Fighter from now-ancient UA or Magic Jarring into a monster that has a trait like this.

The basic idea is that a monster approaches you, provokes an OA due to PAM, you use Warcaster to replace that OA with a spell, specifically Booming Blade, which will cause even more damage if they move, and then you use Crusher to push them away from you out of melee range. This way, the enemy is stuck outside of melee range and either has to move, triggering the extra damage from Booming Blade, or stand still and use whatever ranged option they have. And because you're a Cavalier, you can do this for every enemy that approaches you. If you end up with enemies next to you, then you can just Disengage and take a 5 foot step back, so you can repeat the whole song and dance the next round, otherwise you might be better off Dodging.

I really wish there was a way to fit 8 levels of Arcana cleric on this, since you would be able to double dip on Potent Spellcasting and add your WIS mod to both the initial damage and to the secondary damage.

The weakness of this build is two-fold: First, ranged enemies. Second, if the terrain is open enough, enemies can just walk around you. So you'd probably want to team up with some party members who can address those issues. Wall spells and the like can help restrict how the enemy can move, forcing them to pass you. A monk or a sniper of your own can eliminate ranged enemies. The Blind Fighting style with a Darkness or Fog Cloud could also probably help a lot. There's always having a friendly paladin to boost saves and a friendly Artillerist artificer to boost AC and grant temp HP every round. A second tank can help extend the area you can control and force enemies to tackle one or the other of you. i mean, why not go cavalier 18/hexblade 2 with repelling blast/whatever else you want. accomplishes much the same effect, except you more reliably deal the damage to cause the knockback, can push them back even further if you want, and deal more damage unless they choose to move in to engage you...then you deal the same damage.

[sithlordnergal]

Booming Blade has two targets, so it can't be used with War Caster. It's popular to homebrew the spell to not count as having two targets (which opens up War Caster to a wide array of other spells that don't normally work with it, like Burning Hands), so check with your DM.


I think you're mistaking Booming Blade for Green Flame Blade. Booming Blade still only targets a single creature, even with the changes from Tasha's. All Tasha's did was make it impossible to use Spell Sniper with BB. Meanwhile Green Flame Blade has never been usable with War Caster.

[CheddarChampion]

@OP I think the extra reactions from Cavalier wouldn't come up a lot in practice. Unless you're taking on a horde of 5' reach melee enemies by yourself or having a "Duel" with a Shepard Druid, 3+ total reactions would be rare.


i mean, why not go cavalier 18/hexblade 2 with repelling blast
Any spell you cast with Warcaster's reaction must not be capable of having more than one target. Eldritch Blast, for a 20th level character, can target up to 4 creatures.

The point of this combination is to deal a lot of damage, not keep enemies away from you. Any reasonably dangerous monsters you're fighting at level 17 and above would rather take an extra 4d8 thunder damage than not get to attack.

[Greywander]

The cavalier's level 18 ability makes a distinction between your "normal reaction" and the one granted by the class ability, a "special reaction" that can "only... make an opportunity attack."

A DM who's not so forgiving might say you can't convert the special reaction to a spell via War Caster, as the ability dictates you can only use that reaction to specifically make an opportunity attack.

If I was the DM, I might let you do it for no reason other than a high-level cavalier is such a rare Pokemon. But for the DMs who would say no, I see where they're coming from.
My interpretation is that these two features are functioning separately. Vigilant Defender gives you an extra reaction every turn that can only be used for an OA. So you use it to make an OA. You then use Warcaster to swap the OA for a spell.

Think of it like this. Person A gives you a voucher for a toaster. You take it to person B. Person B is all out of toasters, so they give you a microwave instead. Person A doesn't know or care about this. All that matters is that they gave you the toaster voucher. Person B also doesn't care where the toaster voucher came from. These are two separate interactions that you've simply chained together to create a new overarching effect.


I think an enemy could take the disengage action to approach you without provoking an attack?

That could still be considered a win though.

Rogues and mounted characters could approach without losing their action.
I think Sentinel could prevent this, if it was a concern. But getting an enemy to waste an action would still be a nice benefit.


I think you're mistaking Booming Blade for Green Flame Blade. Booming Blade still only targets a single creature, even with the changes from Tasha's. All Tasha's did was make it impossible to use Spell Sniper with BB. Meanwhile Green Flame Blade has never been usable with War Caster.
I think it's because Tasha's BB has a range of Self and also targets an enemy. TBH, I don't use Tasha's version of the SCAG cantrips, because Tasha's actually breaks them and makes them function not as intended. I get that the SCAG version has some questionable interactions, like being able to substitute a spell focus for the weapon (but then just use the spell focus as an improvised weapon), but Tasha's actually makes it not work at all for things that it's supposed to work with, such as a Shadowblade.

So I just pretend Tasha's version doesn't exist. SCAG version is still an official rule, albeit outdated, but that still means it's a form of RAW.


Any spell you cast with Warcaster's reaction must not be capable of having more than one target.
I'm about to blow your mind. Warcaster only requires that the spell target one creature. Whether the spell is capable of targeting more than one creature is irrelevant. So yes, EB and GFB would be valid options, so long as you only target one creature with them.

You're confusing this with the Twinned Spell metamagic, which does care if a spell is capable of targeting more than one creature.

[sithlordnergal]

@OP I think the extra reactions from Cavalier wouldn't come up a lot in practice. Unless you're taking on a horde of 5' reach melee enemies by yourself or having a "Duel" with a Shepard Druid, 3+ total reactions would be rare.


Any spell you cast with Warcaster's reaction must not be capable of having more than one target. Eldritch Blast, for a 20th level character, can target up to 4 creatures.

The point of this combination is to deal a lot of damage, not keep enemies away from you. Any reasonably dangerous monsters you're fighting at level 17 and above would rather take an extra 4d8 thunder damage than not get to attack.

I mean, according to Sage Advice Eldritch Blast can can be used for Warcaster at all levels, they just have to all target the same creature. Now, for the damage aspect, your method really only deals more damage if the creature approaches you twice or more on the same turn, letting you use it more than once. If they don't approach you a second time, Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast ends up being stronger, funnily enough. Though only by about 1-2 points of damage, depending on if you use a d6 or d8 for your Quarterstaff damage.

EDIT: Of course, in exchange for only being able to hit them once, the EB combo pushes them further and isn't limited by size. But for pure damage, the BB strategy is better, provided you have a way to force them to move closer to you.

[JackPhoenix]

I think it's because Tasha's BB has a range of Self and also targets an enemy. TBH, I don't use Tasha's version of the SCAG cantrips, because Tasha's actually breaks them and makes them function not as intended. I get that the SCAG version has some questionable interactions, like being able to substitute a spell focus for the weapon (but then just use the spell focus as an improvised weapon), but Tasha's actually makes it not work at all for things that it's supposed to work with, such as a Shadowblade.

Again, range of self is not the same thing as targetting yourself with the spell, especially if it's a radius originating from yourself, like the Trasha version of the cantrips.
And you're presuming the cantrips are intended to work with Shadow Blade. JC's SA tweet on the matter suggests it's neither RAW nor RAI, but he would let it slide in his own game for RAF.

[kazaryu]

Any spell you cast with Warcaster's reaction must not be capable of having more than one target. Eldritch Blast, for a 20th level character, can target up to 4 creatures.

The point of this combination is to deal a lot of damage, not keep enemies away from you. Any reasonably dangerous monsters you're fighting at level 17 and above would rather take an extra 4d8 thunder damage than not get to attack.

you're confusing the phrasing of Twinned spell metamagic with warcaster. warcaster only requires that the spell *only* target the person that provoked the Aoo. warcaster doesn't have the additional clause that limits it.


When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack.The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.


When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).

To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level.

so you can't for example, cast EB and target other creatures. but as long as all of your attacks target that one creature you're A-OK. you could even magic missile. you would not, however, be able to fireball, even if only that creature is in the radius. because fireball targets a point, not a creature.

and EB does the same damage as (technically slightly more...very slightly) booming blade. and it doesn't rely on the enemy moving. AND it has a better chance of denying that enemy an attack altogether (by moving them out of range). and it has a better damage type. and it has more potential rider damages on certain enemies, like hex, and HBC so against specific enemies it will do more damage.


I mean, according to Sage Advice Eldritch Blast can can be used for Warcaster at all levels, they just have to all target the same creature. Now, for the damage aspect, your method really only deals more damage if the creature approaches you twice or more on the same turn, letting you use it more than once. If they don't approach you a second time, Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast ends up being stronger, funnily enough. Though only by about 1-2 points of damage, depending on if you use a d6 or d8 for your Quarterstaff damage.

EDIT: Of course, in exchange for only being able to hit them once, the EB combo pushes them further and isn't limited by size. But for pure damage, the BB strategy is better, provided you have a way to force them to move closer to you.

EB and BB would have exactly the same proc criteria. which means every time you could BB, you could instead EB. the only way BB out-damages EB is if the enemy is resistant/immune to force damage. in basically all other scenarios, EB is superior.

[DwarfFighter]

Well, GM rules PAM grants attacks that use that weapon, no substitutions.

[Lunali]

EB and BB would have exactly the same proc criteria. which means every time you could BB, you could instead EB. the only way BB out-damages EB is if the enemy is resistant/immune to force damage. in basically all other scenarios, EB is superior.

The 'extra' damage on BB comes from the assumption that the enemy would move after, meaning 8d8+str versus 4d10+4cha.

[CheddarChampion]

The 'extra' damage on BB comes from the assumption that the enemy would move after, meaning 8d8+str versus 4d10+4cha.

Plus any boosts from magic weapons and fighting styles.

With 20 strength, +1 spear or quarterstaff held in one hand for the Dueling fighting style would deal 1d6+7d8+8 (43) damage with Booming Blade, while Agonizing Blast with 20 charisma deals 4d10+20 (42) damage.

[kazaryu]

The 'extra' damage on BB comes from the assumption that the enemy would move after, meaning 8d8+str versus 4d10+4cha.

im aware...8d8+str is like...41. while 4d10+4*cha is 42. so BB is slightly less damage unless you have a +1 polearm. in which case its the same damage. and its very slightly better if you're using something like dueling+pam or a +1glaive. However, EB benefits about twice as much from crit chance (obviously crit chance is still only a small factor overall). has the potential to proc even more damage against specific tagets (via hex/HBC), has a better damage type, can push an enemy further and therefore (potentially) deny it its attack altogether, and isn't reliant on the enemy moving in order ot deal its full damage.

so while its possible to edge out EB with BB, its by barely any amount and only under specific circumstances, meanwhile you're sacrificing the significant benefits that EB/repelling blast provides

[Eldariel]

This is such an oddly specific build, but it should be really good at what it does, and might not be too much of a waste.

Sadly, this needs 18 levels in Cavalier fighter to get the infinite OAs (more specifically, one OA per turn, rather than per round). I wish we could get the same or a similar ability without needing to go so deep into one class. But the only other option is Tunnel Fighter from now-ancient UA or Magic Jarring into a monster that has a trait like this.

The basic idea is that a monster approaches you, provokes an OA due to PAM, you use Warcaster to replace that OA with a spell, specifically Booming Blade, which will cause even more damage if they move, and then you use Crusher to push them away from you out of melee range. This way, the enemy is stuck outside of melee range and either has to move, triggering the extra damage from Booming Blade, or stand still and use whatever ranged option they have. And because you're a Cavalier, you can do this for every enemy that approaches you. If you end up with enemies next to you, then you can just Disengage and take a 5 foot step back, so you can repeat the whole song and dance the next round, otherwise you might be better off Dodging.

I really wish there was a way to fit 8 levels of Arcana cleric on this, since you would be able to double dip on Potent Spellcasting and add your WIS mod to both the initial damage and to the secondary damage.

The weakness of this build is two-fold: First, ranged enemies. Second, if the terrain is open enough, enemies can just walk around you. So you'd probably want to team up with some party members who can address those issues. Wall spells and the like can help restrict how the enemy can move, forcing them to pass you. A monk or a sniper of your own can eliminate ranged enemies. The Blind Fighting style with a Darkness or Fog Cloud could also probably help a lot. There's always having a friendly paladin to boost saves and a friendly Artillerist artificer to boost AC and grant temp HP every round. A second tank can help extend the area you can control and force enemies to tackle one or the other of you.

There is another way: to get Shapechange. Turn into a Marilith, which has the same ability and a bludgeoning 10' tail attack (in addition to those 6 swords). Arcana Cleric 17+ can do this, though PAM doesn't work on natural weapons so you'd have to wield a weapon to get that (which would give up the incredible Multiattack of Marilith, but is probably still fine).