PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Integrating Superiority Dice into the Fighter (plus Champion and Banneret reworks)



Gurgeh
2021-09-21, 10:44 PM
I've been wanting to make superiority dice a core Fighter feature, but all of the Fighter reworks that I have seen to date have gone further than I think appropriate, rolling the Battle Master's manoeuvres (and in some cases its ribbon features, too) into the core Fighter progression, and either making the Champion the new Battle Master or removing it entirely. I like the flavour of the Battle Master and Champion as fighter subclasses, even if I feel the Champion has significant mechanical deficiencies, and want to preserve them.

The principles behind these changes:


Superiority dice should be a universal feature of the Fighter, but manoeuvres should mostly remain the Battle Master's province.
Indomitable ought to help your weak saves enough to make a difference, instead of just reinforcing your strong saves.
The Champion is significantly undertuned and needs a power boost.
The Champion is intended to be a simple subclass with relatively few decision points and not much resource management, and it should stay that way.
The Battle Master is already very good, but it deserves something more (even if it isn't much) at level 18.
The Banneret is undertuned, though not as badly as the Champion.
Changes should try to align closely to the theme and pattern of the class and subclasses as printed.
Players should be able to port over a RAW Fighter to these rules without having to make significant changes to their build.
The Fighter


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Superiority Dice
Features


1st
+2
1d6
Fighting Style, Combat Superiority, Second Wind


2nd
+2
1d6
Action Surge x1


3rd
+2
1d6
Martial Archetype


4th
+2
1d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


5th
+3
1d6
Extra Attack x1


6th
+3
1d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


7th
+3
1d6
Martial Archetype feature


8th
+3
1d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


9th
+4
2d6
Indomitable x1


10th
+4
2d6
Martial Archetype Feature


11th
+4
2d6
Extra Attack x2


12th
+4
2d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


13th
+5
2d6
Indomitable x2, Unbowed


14th
+5
2d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


15th
+5
2d6
Martial Archetype feature


16th
+5
2d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


17th
+6
3d6
Action Surge x2, Indomitable x3


18th
+6
3d6
Martial Archetype feature


19th
+6
3d6
Ability Score Increase, Martial Versatility


20th
+6
3d6
Extra Attack x3


Features in bold are either new or changed from their existing incarnation, and are detailed below. Features in plaintext are identical to the existing printed rules.

Combat Superiority
You have one superiority die, which is a d6. This die can be used to augment various Fighter class features, and eventually subclass features. You regain all of your superiority dice whenever you finish a short or long rest. As you gain fighter levels, your pool of superiority dice will expand: extra superiority dice are gained at levels 9 and 17.

For most fighters, the superiority die will offer an extra bit of edge, every now and then - it lets them be just that little bit better-than-you. Some subclasses will get more mileage from it than others.
Second Wind
You have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use this feature to regain hit points equal to your fighter level, provided you are not incapacitated. When you use this feature, you may expend one superiority die and add the roll to the hit points you regain.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Numerically, this is weaker than the PHB version (at least at low levels), since the die used is smaller and draws on another resource that you may want to spend elsewhere; on the other hand, it no longer requires a bonus action, so the opportunity cost has been reduced, especially for two-weapon fighters or subclasses that make extensive use of bonus actions.
Indomitable
Beginning at 9th level, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.

When you use this feature, you may choose to expend a superiority die and add it to the new roll.

You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 13th level and three times between long rests starting at 17th level.

Let's be realistic here, Indomitable feels bad. Due to the way saves scale in 5e, it's not likely to help you make a save with a bad modifier, so more often than not it just tends up re-emphasizing the strength of your "good" saves (especially since you get nothing by way of compensation if the re-roll is a failure). Adding a d6 to a save averages slightly less than proficiency at the level you gain it, which can be used both to make proficient saves a surer bet and to make non-proficient saves less futile.
Unbowed
Beginning at 13th level, if you use your Indomitable feature to re-roll a save and the re-roll is still a failure, you do not expend a use of the Indomitable feature. If you used a superiority die for this failed re-roll, the superiority die is also not expended.

A straight-up power boost for Indomitable, especially for bad saves, since the player now has nothing to lose by attempting a long shot retry.

Improved Critical
Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20. When you score a critical hit, you may expend a superiority die and add it (doubled, due to the critical hit) to your damage roll.

The PHB Improved Critical is deceptively weak, since it only affects 5% of your attack rolls; this tweak means that you have the opportunity to make any critical you roll hit a good deal harder, and makes the Champion's natural 20s a bit better than those of a fighter without a subclass (as opposed to being exactly the same).
Remarkable Athlete
Starting at 3rd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make; this stacks with any proficiency bonus you might already have.

In addition, when you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Strength modifier.

The Champion is barely different from a fighter with no subclass until they hit level 7; bringing Remarkable Athlete forward (and letting it stack with proficiency) gives them a minor power boost and also a bit of out-of-combat edge. I've changed its rounding to round down, so it's less front-loaded - but since it now stacks with proficiency it's no longer "Jack of All Trades, but worse".
Superior Athlete
Stating at 7th level, whenever you make a strength, dexterity, or constitution check, you may expend a superiority die and add your roll to the result. In addition, you gain proficiency in Dexterity saving throws. If you already have this proficiency, you instead gain proficiency in Strength or Constitution saving throws (your choice).

This extends the Champion's theme of being that little bit better at all things physical. Better saving throws, and the ability to burn their superiority die on a skill check if the stakes are high.
Additional Fighting Style
As printed in the PHB - no changes.

Reliable Edge
Starting at 15th level, when you use Second Wind, Indomitable, Improved Critical, or Superior Athlete, you may roll a d4 instead of expending a superiority die.

In keeping with the PHB Champion being less resource-reliant than most subclasses, you can now use almost all of your superiority die features without any resource restriction. I'd originally thought to allow it for all superiority die uses, but figured that it would be a bit ridiculous if it allowed unlimited use of manoeuvres acquired via Martial Adept or Superior Technique.
Survivor
As printed in the PHB - no changes.

I've done my best to keep the Champion as a choice for players who don't want to have to engage with extra systems; for a Champion, superiority dice are a sometimes-bonus that can be used to give them a physical edge, or simply pour more damage on when they get a critical hit. At high levels, they become almost entirely resource-independent.


Combat Mastery
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn manoeuvres that are fueled by special dice called superiority dice.

You learn three maneuvers of your choice. Many manoeuvres enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one manoeuvres per attack. You learn two additional manoeuvres of your choice at 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th level. Each time you learn new manoeuvres, you can also replace one manoeuvre you know with a different one.

You gain three additional superiority dice, and all of your superiority dice, regardless of their source, become d8s. You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.

Every other Battle Master feature is unchanged.

The third-level Battle Master is (very) slightly nerfed from their PHB incarnation - they have the same number of superiority dice and manoeuvres, but the dice now have to also be considered for Second Wind. In the long run, they will end up with significantly more resources than in PHB thanks to the extra dice gained from the core Fighter chassis at levels 9 and 17. I've also given them new manoeuvres at level 18 to add a bit of flavour to an otherwise soul-crushing level; the extra manoeuvres added in Tasha's make lategame manouevre acquisition less of a case of "pick something strictly worse than what you already have" than it would be with just the PHB resources. Their larger superiority dice also give them better mileage from Second Wind and Indomitable than other Fighter subclasses.

Eldritch Strike
At 10th level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature's resistance to your spells. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn. If you target that creature with a spell attack before the end of your next turn, you may expend a superiority die and add it to the attack roll. You can use this feature before or after making the attack roll, but before any effects of the attack are applied.

I feel the Eldritch Knight is already very good, so I've avoided making any serious changes; the one alteration is that they can now get a (limited) version of Precision Attack for spells, which encourages the use of spell attacks even if they're not willing to invest heavily in Intelligence.

Rallying Cry
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to inspire your allies to fight on past their injuries.

When you use your Second Wind feature, you may add your Charisma modifier to the hit points you recover. In addition, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to your total recovery from Second Wind, provided that the creature can see or hear you.

Starting at 18th level, any allies affected by this feature also gain advantage on the next saving throw they make until the start of your next turn.

The HP recovery from Rallying Cry is almost unnoticeable at low levels; the Banneret now gets to share the full recovery effect with their allies, and gets slightly more, to boot. With Second Wind no longer requiring a bonus action, they can now offer aid at a reduced opportunity cost. The high-level buff is there to give the subclass a bit more of a capstone, since a second friend benefitting from Inspiring Surge is a fairly marginal improvement unless your party is packed to the gills with Rogues.
Royal Envoy
No changes to the printed rules.

Inspiring Surge
Starting at 10th level, when you use your Action Surge feature, you can choose one creature within 60 feet of you that is allied with you. That creature can use its reaction to make one melee or ranged weapon attack or cast a cantrip, provided that it can see or hear you.

Starting at 18th level, you can choose two allies within 60 feet of you, rather than one.

Being an inspiring commander doesn't mean you're only ever able to inspire martial sorts. It might end up a little too good if paired with Agonising Eldritch Blast, but the overall Banneret package is still on the unremarkable side, so I don't see a problem with letting your allies shine more.
Bulwark
Beginning at 15th level, you can extend the benefit of your Indomitable feature to an ally. When you decide to use Indomitable to reroll an Intelligence, a Wisdom, or a Charisma saving throw and you aren't incapacitated, you can choose one ally within 60 feet of you that also failed its saving throw against the same effect. If that creature can see or hear you, it can reroll its saving throw with advantage and must use the new roll. If you expended a superiority die when using your Indomitable feature, its result is also added to your ally's re-rolled saving throw.

Similar to the changes to Indomitable itself, Bulwark now does a lot more to shore up your allies' defences - with both advantage and a potential extra 1d6 to their saving throw, this can turn the result around even for allies who would otherwise be in a completely hopeless position.
At this point, I haven't evaluated any of the other Fighter subclasses, but I feel the only one that might want explicit subclass superiority dice features is the Arcane Archer; the Samurai, Cavalier, and Rune Knight are already very strong, the Psi Warrior has its own, separate resource, and the Echo Knight is... a mess, honestly, and one that I don't feel competent to evaluate and tweak.

I'm worried that the Battle Master might be a bit overtuned, since they now get more superiority dice and their larger size means they'll get bigger swings with Indomitable than other subclasses. I'd appreciate feedback about any of these changes - please don't spare my feelings!

Yakk
2021-09-22, 01:08 PM
L1: Strictly worse than standard Fighter for anything except DW builds, and VHuman XBE/PAM builds.

I'd advise permitting you to burn a CS die on extra damage or something as well.

L9: You need details on when you decide to add the die.

Champion
Critical: If you added baseline CS to damage, the extra die becomes redundant here.
Athlete: Stacks is not a game term.

I might suggest instead:
Starting at 3rd level, whenever you make a Strength, Dexterity or Constitution attribute check or saving
throw where you do not add your proficiency bonus, you may add 1/2 of your proficiency bonus (round up).
If you would normally add your proficiency bonus, add an additional +1.

In addition, when you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feat
equal to your Strength bonus.

This "half proficiency, round up, add +1 if you already have proficiency, to all physical checks and saves"
gives a nice broad bonus. The extra +1 is nothing to sneeze at, but it doesn't make expertise+this give
ridiculous bonuses.

Second, the Champion runs into the problem that its level 3 feature is one that is most powerful in T3. The
crit range feature scales with number of attacks and damage dice, and at level 3 they are both really low.

Moving some other "I can do things in combat" down to level 3 might be better than moving non-combat utility
down to 3, ideally stuff that doesn't scale, like damage.

As an idea:
1) Superiority dice scale in the baseline Fighter in size. 1d6 at level 1, 1d8 at level 3, etc. Matching
BM dice size.

2) You can expend at most 1 superiority die on a given turn. The BM breaks this rule.

3) The Champion gets an infinite supply of 1d4 superiority dice. They still get their handful of 1d8 and up dice
that scale with level.

...

Another idea would be to keep the dice as 1d6s for the baseline fighter, and Champion 3 gives you an infinite supply
of them (so you don't have to think about them). Or maybe:

1) You can spend a superiority die when you hit to add to damage baseline.
2) Champion 3 gets a superiority die at the start of their turn if they run out.

The 1d6 extra damage/turn is a large boost at level 3, but doesn't scale that well. Which is what the Champion needs.

Superior Athlete
I do like burning the superiority die. You might want to swap this and Remarkable. Also, you need to specify
timing, usually "you can choose to do this after you roll but before the results are determined." On the other
hand, the shortage of superiority dice makes this pretty anemic.

Additional Fighting Style
This remains a junk feature. More than anything else this needs improving.

Getting a class feature that is worse than what you got at level 1, because you already picked the best one,
at this level is not a good plan.

Reliable Edge
You could simply state "whenever you could expend a superiority die, you can roll 1d4 instead of expending one".
But this works better if the superiority dice grew from 1d6, because the difference between 1d6 and 1d4 is small.

Battlemaster
Again, adding 2 features when you already picked over the best 9 of them at previous levels isn't a real feature,
it is a bookkeeping chore.

Eldritch Knight
I'd honestly rework it to have something like the extra attack feature of the bladesinger. EK in my experience
end up self-buffing and using reaction spells (Absorb Elements and Shield); offensive spell use is a trap, because
your melee scales at fighter speeds while your spells scale like an apprentice wizard.

Having ways to mix spell use with not turning off your entire fighter class features is something I'd think you
should consider.

Banneret:
If you move the Champion non-combat feature down to 3, you should probably do it here as well.

Bjarkmundur
2021-10-17, 05:34 PM
I would love for this idea to get some more traction. The idea is great, but I feel like a larger discussion is needed. Did you drop this project? Is someone else working on something similar?