View Full Version : It seems like 5.5e or an FR box set is going to be announced Sunday
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0786967374?tag=bookfinder-test-b2-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_US&selectObb=new
Apparent a major new product is going to be announced at the future of D&D panel with Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins joining original planned Panelists Ray and Liz.
This is a price point for the 3 core book gift set, so it's likely 5.5e being announced, although outside chance that they are going big Forgotten Realms setting product, a box set with books covering Maztica, Zakhara, Faerun, Kara Tur.
Nothing less justifies a $170usd price point for a book product.
Dork_Forge
2021-09-24, 02:27 PM
I really, really hope that it isn't 5.5.
I could see it being something like a setting book bundled with adventures, you could build out an entire setting presence in one foul swoop.
verbatim
2021-09-24, 02:28 PM
Nothing less justifies a $170usd price point for a book product.
What if it was a 800 page Planescape Sourcebook?
It won't be, but I would grab that in a heartbeat.
ProsecutorGodot
2021-09-24, 02:29 PM
I doubt it. My expectation is that it's going to be a special edition bundle of the Core 3 books with XGTE and TCOE with a handful of extra knick knacks like a DM screen and dice set.
It could be called " The big bundle of everything" your perfect starter set for the world's greatest roleplaying game.
This "5.5e is coming right now" kick is killing me, but who knows, I could always be wrong.
Ionathus
2021-09-24, 02:39 PM
5.5e/6e has been three months away since mid-2015, if internet predictions are to be believed.
D&D is on something like a 6-year growth streak. It has never been this popular. Hasbro's not rocking that boat.
Nothing less justifies a $170usd price point for a book product.
Plenty of lesser things justify it, actually. Fans will absolutely pay $170 for a fancy collector's version of something they already own.
JackPhoenix
2021-09-24, 02:42 PM
Plenty of lesser things justify it, actually. Fans will absolutely pay $170 for a fancy collector's version of something they already own.
As someone who knew people who bought the leather-covered version of 3.5 books, I agree.
Abracadangit
2021-09-24, 02:46 PM
Paging @jaappleton...
Paging @jaappleton...
...I kid. 5.5 would be an odd choice at the moment, I feel like -- but maybe some kind of special Forgotten Realms/Legend of Drizzt bundle, or some kind of reprint bundle of a bunch of their WotC adventures.
KorvinStarmast
2021-09-24, 02:50 PM
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0786967374?tag=bookfinder-test-b2-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_US&selectObb=new
This is a price point for the 3 core book gift set, so it's likely 5.5e being announced, although outside chance that they are going big Forgotten Realms setting product, a box set with books covering Maztica, Zakhara, Faerun, Kara Tur.
Nothing less justifies a $170usd price point for a book product.
Dark Sun: three core books, Dark Sun adventure book with finished psionics package, as well as Tasha's and Xanathar's player options combined into a new player guide.
OK, a man can dream, right?
PhantomSoul
2021-09-24, 02:54 PM
Nothing less justifies a $170usd price point for a book product.
that is way too high to justify a price point for 5.5 (which they would presumably want to be accessible and widespread), and that's even without using Tasha's quality as a baseline for justifying a price!
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-24, 02:55 PM
that is way too high to justify a price point for 5.5 (which they would presumably want to be accessible and widespread), and that's even without using Tasha's quality as a baseline for justifying a price!
Agreed. I'd expect 5.5 to come in a set, but also in three separate books. And I hope it doesn't come any time soon.
KorvinStarmast
2021-09-24, 02:56 PM
that is way too high to justify a price point for 5.5 (which they would presumably want to be accessible and widespread), and that's even without using Tasha's quality as a baseline for justifying a price! Look at the calendar. There are less than 100 shopping days to Christmas. Price rises attending to the Christmas season are not unheard of. :smallwink:
chiefwaha
2021-09-24, 02:59 PM
Dark Sun: three core books, Dark Sun adventure book with finished psionics package, as well as Tasha's and Xanathar's player options combined into a new player guide.
OK, a man can dream, right?
I'd pay more than $170 for that.
What if it was a 800 page Planescape Sourcebook?
It won't be, but I would grab that in a heartbeat.
These books would each have to have to be very large. Outside chance of Planejammer, but based on price few setting could fill such a an expensive setting product other then FR, just 5.5e is still more likely as we've had races and class surveys on the races and classes of the PHB months ago, likely gathering data for a serious update.
that is way too high to justify a price point for 5.5 (which they would presumably want to be accessible and widespread), and that's even without using Tasha's quality as a baseline for justifying a price!
It would be a bundle of 3 most likely heavily beefed up core books, it's actually the same price roughly of the current Core Book Gift set.
False God
2021-09-24, 03:11 PM
Look at the calendar. There are less than 100 shopping days to Christmas. Price rises attending to the Christmas season are not unheard of. :smallwink:
I doubt it. My expectation is that it's going to be a special edition bundle of the Core 3 books with XGTE and TCOE with a handful of extra knick knacks like a DM screen and dice set.
It could be called " The big bundle of everything" your perfect starter set for the world's greatest roleplaying game.
This "5.5e is coming right now" kick is killing me, but who knows, I could always be wrong.
As Korvin points out, the proximity of the "holiday shopping season" makes it likely to be some special boxset. I remember several of 4E's box-sets came out right before the holidays.
As Korvin points out, the proximity of the "holiday shopping season" makes it likely to be some special boxset. I remember several of 4E's box-sets came out right before the holidays.
It AFTER the Holiday season, Holiday season is over when January hits.
Dork_Forge
2021-09-24, 03:29 PM
It AFTER the Holiday season, Holiday season is over when January hits.
Preorders mean that plenty of people can still get it for the holidays. Be it as a gift, or using a gift card. It's likely in January becuase Strixhaven is in December and releasing two books in one month is more likely to cannibalise their own sales.
Ionathus
2021-09-24, 03:31 PM
These books would each have to have to be very large. Outside chance of Planejammer, but based on price few setting could fill such a an expensive setting product other then FR, just 5.5e is still more likely as we've had races and class surveys on the races and classes of the PHB months ago, likely gathering data for a serious update.
I would be surprised if the race/class stuff alone was enough to justify such large-scale edition changes. Given WotC's recent statements on 5e's early modules WRT racial connotations & assumptions, I expect they'll be taking a more "we'll try to do better in future books we publish, but aren't looking backward" approach.
Rhocian Xothara
2021-09-24, 03:37 PM
I, for one, really hope it's a detailed, lore-filled Atlas of Toril. There has been talk for a while about moving away from the Forgotten Realms, so a three-book send-off seems fitting.
A guy can dream, but I echo others here when I say I really hope it's not 5.5e.
Foxydono
2021-09-24, 03:55 PM
I for one would welcome 5.5. I think there are quite a bit of aspects that could be improved. To name a few: class balancing, feat balancing, invisibility mechanic, short/long rest problems, psionics, etc.
Although I agree 5e is an excellent and balanced edition, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the current problems fixed.
Unoriginal
2021-09-24, 04:07 PM
5.5e/6e has been three months away since mid-2015, if internet predictions are to be believed.
Since mid-2013, more like.
PhantomSoul
2021-09-24, 04:08 PM
It would be a bundle of 3 most likely heavily beefed up core books, it's actually the same price roughly of the current Core Book Gift set.
Based on the OP, it's the lack of associated separate books that's the issue for the 5.5e core book set hope
(That and Tasha's gives me little hope for 5.5e, but that's quality rather than occurrence haha)
I, for one, really hope it's a detailed, lore-filled Atlas of Toril. There has been talk for a while about moving away from the Forgotten Realms, so a three-book send-off seems fitting.
A guy can dream, but I echo others here when I say I really hope it's not 5.5e.
After 5.5e edition, this is the only other likely option, few D&D settings would support or be able to filled 3 Core Set Sized books in 5e, and the few that could would be too high risk at this price point.
And they did say the classic settings that were coming would be in a new print format, a box set of books would fit that for FR.
Based on the OP, it's the lack of associated separate books that's the issue for the 5.5e core book set hope
(That and Tasha's gives me little hope for 5.5e, but that's quality rather than occurrence haha)
just because there is no link for seperate books yet, doesn't mean there won't be later.
PhantomSoul
2021-09-24, 04:17 PM
just because there is no link for seperate books yet, doesn't mean there won't be later.
Agreed, but hey, you go with what you've got now for random conjecture! :P
Mjolnirbear
2021-09-24, 04:22 PM
I doubt it's 5.5.
But...i kinda wouldn't mind if it was, either. Imagine sorcerer upgrades and ranger remakes and wildshape simplification and summoning spells all being fixed? Imagine redoing CR to make more sense? Imagine if blade lock had SADness before Hex blade so that a hexblade could be interesting instead of strong? Imagine all druids had alternative uses for wild shape? Imagine maneuvers for all martials and b/p/s weapons actually having a useful distinction?
Which is why it won't happen. Because everyone has a slightly different idea of what improvements would be needed, and more importantly, why fix what ain't broke? WOTC has been making money hand over fist with no signs of slowing down, why kill the golden goose?
It's also not the first expensive option. I've seen exclusive deluxe box sets with really expensive lucre that I lust over but am too practical to spend my own money on. I'd lay money on it being some deluxe redo of an existing product.
dafrca
2021-09-24, 04:30 PM
Having just purchased the latest couple books for 5.0 I would be rather unhappy to find out they sold these new books knowing they were about to do a new 5.5. I bet I would not be alone. When 3.5 cam out there was a break from new books for a little while and it was known for some time. It didn't just pop up. So I expect this is another of those internet rumors. :smallbiggrin:
Having just purchased the latest couple books for 5.0 I would be rather unhappy to find out they sold these new books knowing they were about to do a new 5.5. I bet I would not be alone. When 3.5 cam out there was a break from new books for a little while and it was known for some time. It didn't just pop up. So I expect this is another of those internet rumors. :smallbiggrin:
3.5e was supposed to be very compatible with 3e, but it was far from it outside a few things. 5.5e on the other hand will likely be Tasha's Coldren of Everything retroactively applied, along with stuff like more races, and maybe adding the Artificer to the PHB, but except for suggested rule PHB +1 (which even AL has dumped) its likely completely compatible with 5e. Look to Tasha's and post Tasha's books for ideas on what 5.5e will look like. You'll still be able to use like subclasses from XGTE with this hypothetical 5.5e. Some of the fluff might change, to reflect current...fads.
strangebloke
2021-09-24, 04:44 PM
Lmao, its just going to be a leatherbound PHB.
People are really thinking they're going to just drop PHB 5.5e like this? With no announcement that it was in the works? No leaks? Absolute madness.
Lmao, its just going to be a leatherbound PHB.
People are really thinking they're going to just drop PHB 5.5e like this? With no announcement that it was in the works? No leaks? Absolute madness.
It's too cheap for a leather bound version, that would be way more expensive then even the alt cover gift set.
Plus there were hints of a sort, the detailed surveys on PHB races/subraces and classes that was checking customer satisfaction with each race, it's features, subraces, and things folks would like to see changed, I knew when I took that survey that 5.5e of some sort (and they might not call it that of course, but really since Tasha's it's 5.5e already, it's just the core books haven't been updated to reflect that yet).
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-24, 05:03 PM
It's too cheap for a leather bound version, that would be way more expensive then even the alt cover gift set.
Plus there were hints of a sort, the detailed surveys on PHB races/subraces and classes that was checking customer satisfaction with each race, it's features, subraces, and things folks would like to see changed, I knew when I took that survey that 5.5e of some sort (and they might not call it that of course, but really since Tasha's it's 5.5e already, it's just the core books haven't been updated to reflect that yet).
Honestly, I don't see Tasha's as being a 5.5e. Basically it only touched a few things, and doesn't actually make significant core changes to mechanics, which is what I'd expect from an edition update. If they're going to expect people to re-buy the core books over a change that can be summed up in about 2 paragraphs...yeah.
And anything more significant/core-affecting would need way more playtesting and trial balloons than they've given any sign of.
Christew
2021-09-24, 07:00 PM
Paging @jaappleton...
Paging @jaappleton...
I'll wait until the page goes through. Wild speculation based on an Amazon placeholder listing? No thanks.
Honestly, I don't see Tasha's as being a 5.5e. Basically it only touched a few things, and doesn't actually make significant core changes to mechanics, which is what I'd expect from an edition update. If they're going to expect people to re-buy the core books over a change that can be summed up in about 2 paragraphs...yeah.
And anything more significant/core-affecting would need way more playtesting and trial balloons than they've given any sign of.
Tasha's well within scope of a minor edition change (but not a major one), think 4e vs 4e Essentials.
I'll wait until the page goes through. Wild speculation based on an Amazon placeholder listing? No thanks.
party pooper 😒😪
msfnc
2021-09-24, 07:11 PM
Not sure how relevant this is, but the Amazon url posted by OP has customer reviews for the Acquisitions, Inc. sourcebook. So that's weird...
paladinn
2021-09-24, 10:41 PM
Personally I think there Needs to be a 5.5. Some of the changes and additions in XGtE and TCoE really make some of what's in the PH obsolete. While there aren't sufficient mechanical changes to warrant a 6e, the classes and subclasses need to all be folded together to weed out duplicate features and consolidate others. I'm thinking specifically of the Ranger class: the "alternate" class features in TCoE alone could make the core class actually usable.
I think the biggest reason for a 5.5 is tournament play. The standard "PH+1" rule makes many features and subclasses unavailable. One consolidated PH would open up a lot more possibilities.
Rynjin
2021-09-24, 10:44 PM
5.5e/6e has been three months away since mid-2015, if internet predictions are to be believed.
D&D is on something like a 6-year growth streak. It has never been this popular. Hasbro's not rocking that boat.
To play devil's advocate, billing a "5.5e" as some kind of "Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition: Advanced Player's Handbook" probably wouldn't rock the boat that much.
It's D&D Regular Rules Expansion Gift Set, with a Alt Cover Hobby Store version. It might just be set with books like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, etc..., which would make it a hard pass for me as I have those books already, or it could be the 3 Core Books with expanded rules, the name is weird and confusing. Like if it's just the books like Tasha's then why not just call it a Player Options set? Why reference Regular Rules at all, like Regular compared to what?
https://letsplaygames.com.au/d-d-regular-rules-expansion-gift-set-hobby-store-exclusive-219180
PhantomSoul
2021-09-25, 09:35 AM
It's D&D Regular Rules Expansion Gift Set, with a Alt Cover Hobby Store version. It might just be set with books like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, etc..., which would make it a hard pass for me as I have those books already, or it could be the 3 Core Books with expanded rules, the name is weird and confusing. Like if it's just the books like Tasha's then why not just call it a Player Options set? Why reference Regular Rules at all, like Regular compared to what?
https://letsplaygames.com.au/d-d-regular-rules-expansion-gift-set-hobby-store-exclusive-219180
Especially when it's either the regular rules or expanded, but not both! Granted, maybe it's an expansion of the regular rules, but that's really just supplemental rules or retcons anyway, for better or the exact opposite of better.
strangebloke
2021-09-25, 10:00 AM
Honestly, I don't see Tasha's as being a 5.5e. Basically it only touched a few things, and doesn't actually make significant core changes to mechanics, which is what I'd expect from an edition update. If they're going to expect people to re-buy the core books over a change that can be summed up in about 2 paragraphs...yeah.
And anything more significant/core-affecting would need way more playtesting and trial balloons than they've given any sign of.
Tasha's is to 5e like unearthed arcana was to 3.5x. You get a lot of ACFs and some "optional" rules that are intended (however successfully) to fix some minor issues.
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-25, 10:47 AM
Tasha's is to 5e like unearthed arcana was to 3.5x. You get a lot of ACFs and some "optional" rules that are intended (however successfully) to fix some minor issues.
Meh. The ACFs were more in the vein of "here's more power for everyone". And mostly in an ignorable fashion, with a few QoL additions. The "optional" rules were basically "lol, no fixed racial ASIs and you can shuffle proficiencies". Which, for all the fury, is basically trivial because races were already trivial--you could do just fine even with a completely unsynergetic race as long as the DM and other players weren't chasing the power optimization dragon.
What Tasha's was, was power creep. Without thought for the structure or established acceptable power limits. Which is one reason, among many, why I don't look to WotC to "fix" issues--their "fixes" tend to
a) misunderstand the issue
b) fix the misunderstood issue by pumping more power into the system and destabilizing things further and doing so in ways that annoy chunks of the player base.
They lucked out (IMO) with the base 5e rules. The number of things that just don't work is...small, and the extensibility and stability under change for the things I want to do differently[1] is large. At least for the way I play. And I have exactly zero (maybe even negative) expectations of lightning striking twice with WotC, especially after Tasha's. So I fully expect that any hypothetical 5.5e or 6e will be strictly worse than 5e in at least one major way.
[1] not better, just differently. Mainly for setting-related reasons.
Foolwise
2021-09-25, 12:53 PM
Not sure how relevant this is, but the Amazon url posted by OP has customer reviews for the Acquisitions, Inc. sourcebook. So that's weird...
Amazon's algorithms will include reviews for related products by the same seller if the product you are looking at doesn't have very many reviews for it personally. They basically don't want to leave that part of the product page blank. At least that is my understanding.
Dark.Revenant
2021-09-25, 02:24 PM
This is most likely going to be PHB + XGtE + TCoE with an extra round of errata applied, especially to TCoE, to address some issues people have had in feedback regarding the new subclasses and with the PHB classes/subclasses.
PhantomSoul
2021-09-25, 04:47 PM
Amazon's algorithms will include reviews for related products by the same seller if the product you are looking at doesn't have very many reviews for it personally. They basically don't want to leave that part of the product page blank. At least that is my understanding.
Yeah; Amazon cares about profits more than accuracy, user needs and applicability (or rather, really pretty much exclusively).
Segev
2021-09-25, 04:52 PM
Clearly, all the dragon stuff being a Dragonlance teaser was just misdirection, and this will be the announcement of Dungeons and Dragonriders of Pern, the boxed set!
paladinn
2021-09-25, 06:17 PM
This is most likely going to be PHB + XGtE + TCoE with an extra round of errata applied, especially to TCoE, to address some issues people have had in feedback regarding the new subclasses and with the PHB classes/subclasses.
Hopefully they won't just slap the 3 volumes together. A lot needs to be consolidated. Features from the other two volumes would totally benefit characters created with the PH. The ranger if nothing else.
Aimeryan
2021-09-25, 11:29 PM
Is this announcement for immediate sale or could it be an annoucement for something further down the line?
Given the recent survey on the PHB, and now this big announcement incoming... Still, I don't think there would have been time to capitalise on the survey feedback yet, so if the annoucement is for something immediate then I don't see it being 5.5e. If it is an annoucement for something say in 6 months time? Possibly.
Millstone85
2021-09-26, 05:09 AM
Is this announcement for immediate sale or could it be an annoucement for something further down the line?The Amazon page now announces a hardcover for January 25 2022.
The Amazon page now announces a hardcover for January 25 2022.
Another site has the release date in October 2021, so who knows.
Grod_The_Giant
2021-09-26, 03:17 PM
Put me down for "reprints of existing books with snazzy matching covers." Given the game's current popularity, I can't imagine them bothering with any sort of significant rules changes or edition updates*. And a "consolidated player resources" book would be bad business, especially at that sort of price point. It would be too expensive for newbies, and veterans who already own most of the component material aren't likely to shell out so much money for mechanics they already have. And it would require almost as much internal work and cost as an entirely new book, whereas a re-release with leather covers or whatnot is quick and easy.
*And that's assuming you can even find anything worth updating. I cut my teeth on 3.5; whatever imbalances currently exist are nothing. Pretty much every complaint I have about the game as it currently stands is either purely personal (ie, "I wish skill checks improved more with level) or inherent to any product that calls itself D&D (ie, "l wish there was less emphasis on attrition.")
Clearly, all the dragon stuff being a Dragonlance teaser was just misdirection, and this will be the announcement of Dungeons and Dragonriders of Pern, the boxed set!
...
My brain just started screaming "omg want" and "such a bad idea nooooo" at the same time so hard that now I have a splitting headache.
Millstone85
2021-09-26, 05:48 PM
Reveal in progress: https://youtu.be/sxb8xiDU5Kw
Rules Expansion Gift Set, including new printings of XGtE and TCoE, but also a new book called Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.
ProsecutorGodot
2021-09-26, 06:00 PM
Would you look at that, it actually was a reveal for a new edition of DND coming 2024.
Millstone85
2021-09-26, 06:01 PM
Would you look at that, it actually was a reveal for a new edition of DND coming 2024.But said to be fully compatible with current books. So, more 5.5 than 6e?
ProsecutorGodot
2021-09-26, 06:04 PM
But said to be fully compatible with current books. So, more 5.5 than 6e?
Most likely, the exact phrasing is "new versions of the core rulebooks" along with a promise of backwards compatibility, so definitely a 5.5e type of change.
Millstone85
2021-09-26, 06:21 PM
So, regarding Monsters of the Multiverse, I noted:
New art and revised statblocks for existing monsters and NPCs.
Truly alphabetized. You will no longer have to find the glabrezu under D for demon.
The spellcasting trait has been modified so DMs need not track spell slots.
Also contains many playable races, chosen for being "setting agnostic".
The video ended with an early sketch for the cover art of a 2022 product. It is the portrait of a famous hero: Boo the miniature giant space hamster!
rooneg
2021-09-26, 06:24 PM
I have to say I’m exceedingly sick of WotC hinting at these groundbreaking new formats they want to release things in but not actually giving any details. If you want to announce something, announce it.
Millstone85
2021-09-26, 06:57 PM
Some art captures.
https://i.imgur.com/mZVtJQB.pngI call BS on Mordy being worthy of that mount. Must be a fallen ki-rin.
https://i.imgur.com/2lOZDQJ.pngIf it isn't Spelljammer this time, well that's just pure cruelty.
rooneg
2021-09-26, 07:06 PM
https://i.imgur.com/2lOZDQJ.pngIf it isn't Spelljammer this time, well that's just pure cruelty.
I get that people hear “Space Hamster” and jump to Spelljammer, but hasn’t Boo always been a Baldur’s Gate character? I’d like a Spelljammer book as much as the next child of the AD&D 2e years, but it would not surprise me if this was something else.
paladinn
2021-09-26, 08:23 PM
If they're not reworking game mechanics, it shouldn't be a 6e. If it really is "completely" 5e-compatible, it's definitely 5.5.
I do hope they introduce something for higher-level characters to save better than L1 characters with non-proficient saves. Even if it's half-or-less-proficiency bonus.
Kane0
2021-09-26, 08:32 PM
Must admit, sorely tempted for that box set if it includes updated core books to include Xan's/Tasha's material. Especially if the layout is improved.
Zhorn
2021-09-26, 08:41 PM
Most likely, the exact phrasing is "new versions of the core rulebooks" along with a promise of backwards compatibility, so definitely a 5.5e type of change.
Whelp, looks like I now have to eat a hat.
the 5.5e crowd were right after all.
dafrca
2021-09-26, 08:41 PM
I want to believe but doubt the "completely compatible" is 100% true. If they are changing races and classes how could it be 100% compatible?
rooneg
2021-09-26, 08:59 PM
I want to believe but doubt the "completely compatible" is 100% true. If they are changing races and classes how could it be 100% compatible?
I mean, there is a Ranger in the PHB and an updated version of the Ranger with new toys from Tasha’s, but both can sit at the same table and the game still functions. That’s the sort of compatibility they’re talking about. Not that nothing is different, but that the stuff from before and after the new book can still be used together.
ProsecutorGodot
2021-09-26, 09:12 PM
I mean, there is a Ranger in the PHB and an updated version of the Ranger with new toys from Tasha’s, but both can sit at the same table and the game still functions. That’s the sort of compatibility they’re talking about. Not that nothing is different, but that the stuff from before and after the new book can still be used together.
There could even be more drastic changes, getting your subclass at a different level, getting an ASI at a different level, variable level up options like the strixhaven UA.
There's a lot of experimentation that could be done, having only received the news today all we can do is speculate.
rooneg
2021-09-26, 09:21 PM
There could even be more drastic changes, getting your subclass at a different level, getting an ASI at a different level, variable level up options like the strixhaven UA.
There's a lot of experimentation that could be done, having only received the news today all we can do is speculate.
Sure, but there are versions of all that stuff that still works with a LOT of old books. Like, maybe you can’t reasonably use old subclasses, but you can definitely sit down and play Curse of Strahd. Personally though, I feel like they’ll be pretty conservative here, Tasha’s style tweaks to classes (with a lot of that becoming the default) and maybe nerfing some of the more busted stuff (i.e. Sharpshooter). You don’t have to do much to get a lot of quality of life improvement and still maintain almost total backwards compatibility.
Monster Manuel
2021-09-26, 09:39 PM
Really, all you need for basic backwards-compatibility is that the basic stats stay the same. You've got STR, DEX, CON, etc, a level-dependant proficiency bonus, which applies to saves and attacks, abilities that re-charge on a short or long rest, etc. You can completely change how the proficiency bonus is calculated (but they probably won't), what constitutes a long rest, how many proficiencies you get, whatever. As long as the basic framework is the same, the content will be backwards-compatible. 5.5 characters may not be BALANCED compared to their 5.0 counterparts, but still compatible.
I still have hope they'll now offer example DC tables for skill use. :smallyuk::smallbiggrin:
Rafaelfras
2021-09-26, 10:48 PM
So much time and energy just rewriting stuff that's already written.
I mean 5th Ed is a very solid system that have been working fine for a good amount of time now. If we are going to a new edition, ok then it's a new edition can have a good overhaul on the rules and start over again in a new cycle (in my opinion anything of that sort before 10-15 years after the edition launch is too soon). But this seems to me an awful lot of time and energy spent just so elves don't have +2 on dex and dwarves +2 on con anymore, and now your monsters are in alphabetical order . I just don't see the point.
I would be really happy if that time was spent on full setting guides (FR, dragon lance and dark sun for me, but I would be happy if others got a setting for their liking like planescape), some more higher level content, I don't know even epic levels! Instead of it's the same but different.
paladinn
2021-09-26, 10:54 PM
I'll be satisfied with one usable core ranger class..
But I go back to what I said before.. there's a lot in XGtE and TCoE that should be available in tournament play. But the typical "PHB+1" rule prevents a lot of that. 5.5 could remedy that.
Dark.Revenant
2021-09-26, 11:20 PM
"Completely compatible" to me would be that the 5.5 book's classes work with the 5e subclasses in XGtE and TCoE.
As for the stuff coming in January, I am hopeful for the reprinted races. Maybe Genasi won't suck this time?
Dork_Forge
2021-09-26, 11:55 PM
I think the reprinted races will just have the alignment ripped out and the stats changed to floating...
I think the reprinted races will just have the alignment ripped out and the stats changed to floating...
I think it is going to be worse: they will still keep judgement about the morality of the races but just avoid using directly the alignment term
"Those creatures generally forms raiding groups and pillage towns and have the majority of their active population be soldiers" "oh of course it is totally not aligned any way"
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-27, 12:21 AM
I think it is going to be worse: they will still keep judgement about the morality of the races but just avoid using directly the alignment term
"Those creatures generally forms raiding groups and pillage towns and have the majority of their active population be soldiers" "oh of course it is totally not aligned any way"
Yeah. After Tasha's, my confidence that any changes will be positive, well thought out, or cohesive and lore friendly is...not very high.
Yeah. After Tasha's, my confidence that any changes will be positive, well thought out, or cohesive and lore friendly is...not very high.
Tashas had plenty of interesting and positive changes. It had its share of mistakes, but then frankly the PHB is literally riddled with mistakes (that were readily apparent basically from the early days).
I think the game is in a much better place than it was a few years ago, and the things that are problems tend to have rather simple (and rather universal) homebrew fixes.
Lord Vukodlak
2021-09-27, 01:33 AM
Agreed. I'd expect 5.5 to come in a set, but also in three separate books. And I hope it doesn't come any time soon.
We already have 5.5 its called Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
dafrca
2021-09-27, 01:38 AM
We already have 5.5 its called Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
And they are already adjusting that for this box set. :smallbiggrin:
follacchioso
2021-09-27, 03:20 AM
It wouldn't be a good marketing strategy to release 5.5 at that price.
You want to sell the core books at an affordable price, so most people can buy it. Then you can sell other books and accessories to those who bought the core books.
That being said, it would make sense to publish a slightly revised version of the core books, fixing all errata and adapting it to Tasha's wordings.
Waazraath
2021-09-27, 03:35 AM
Tashas had plenty of interesting and positive changes.
Yeah, more positive than negative if you ask me. A lot of alternative class features adressed common complaints (barbarian getting extra skills for out of combat stuff, new maneuvers for the Battle Master adressing that everybody picked the best at earliest level and only worse choices after that - now there is just too much 'good' for that; monk's extra attack after a ki ability empowering the 4 elements monk; many subclasses that were cool and flavorfull additions). Of course, the racial stuff was badly worked out, and there were a few overpowered subclasses (Twilight Cleric etc.), but over all it was a decent book that improved the game.
Segev
2021-09-27, 08:41 AM
If the new (half?-)edition's changes are just codifying things to "fix problematic elements," they're going to be blasted by the very people they seek to appease, because trends for what is "problematic" will have shifted dramatically by the time this comes out.
If, on the other hand, they are going to try to take lessons learned and experimented with over the last few years, and leave the "well, D&D was morally wrong before we made these changes, but now we're fixing it" to a minimum, this could be a useful move.
Yes, even if they to to pure floating stats, I could be brought around to appreciating it if they do a MUCH better job of balancing the races' actually-differing mechanics around that assumption. From a balance perspective, the trouble is that even their new races that use the floating stat rules merely feel more watered-down, not like they're taking bolder risks to make them stand out as unique while leaving stats as something that are more a pure mechanical choice related to class selection.
Tanarii
2021-09-27, 09:26 AM
Reveal in progress: https://youtu.be/sxb8xiDU5Kw
That was torture and I had to stop listening. Don't suppose someone is willing to provide a quote of the exact wording of the relevant announcement? :smallamused:
Christew
2021-09-27, 09:35 AM
That was torture and I had to stop listening. Don't suppose someone is willing to provide a quote of the exact wording of the relevant announcement? :smallamused:
"I can actually reveal today that we have earlier this year - we began work on the next evolution of Dungeons and Dragons - new versions of the Core Rule Books, which will be coming out in 2024 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons ... with the surveys we have been giving out ... the next evolution of the game ... we are doing the best to give you the version of the game that you really want; so we can't really say much more yet about what our plans are, as we are still making them; but you are gonna see more surveys like that .... next year - the timing is next year, so next year we will have plenty more to say about those books and what they mean for D&D .... one thing by the way I can assure you these new versions of the books are gonna be completley compatible with all those 5th Edition products that you already own and love and all those products that we will release between now and then .... so next year we will have more to say."
Millstone85
2021-09-27, 10:37 AM
I get that people hear “Space Hamster” and jump to Spelljammer, but hasn’t Boo always been a Baldur’s Gate character?A Baldur's Gate character that was a reference to Spelljammer. The latter's wacky lore includes gnomish ships being powered by running wheels with bear-sized hamsters in them. Boo came with the added joke that he somehow went back to being a rodent of very usual size.
Also, the 5e adventure Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage had another miniature giant space hamster show up inside a crashed illithid ship, explicitly referred to as a spelljamming vessel.https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/6/66/Illithid_space_hamster-5e.jpg
And really, what does being a Baldur's Gate character entail? The first game took place in and around the titular city, but Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn didn't bother with the first half of its title.
I’d like a Spelljammer book as much as the next child of the AD&D 2e years, but it would not surprise me if this was something else.I wouldn't be surprised either, but nonetheless very disappointed and also angry with all the tease.
In fact, the biggest one came from the opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate III. The game is still in early access, so I haven't played it yet.
https://youtu.be/jNY7AEQ59-8
That was torture and I had to stop listening. Don't suppose someone is willing to provide a quote of the exact wording of the relevant announcement? :smallamused:Note that, when I posted the link, the video was still in streaming mode. The part I watched now begins at 8:00:40 (https://youtu.be/sxb8xiDU5Kw?t=28840).
Tanarii
2021-09-27, 10:49 AM
"I can actually reveal today that we have earlier this year - we began work on the next evolution of Dungeons and Dragons - new versions of the Core Rule Books, which will be coming out in 2024 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons ... with the surveys we have been giving out ... the next evolution of the game ... we are doing the best to give you the version of the game that you really want; so we can't really say much more yet about what our plans are, as we are still making them; but you are gonna see more surveys like that .... next year - the timing is next year, so next year we will have plenty more to say about those books and what they mean for D&D .... one thing by the way I can assure you these new versions of the books are gonna be completley compatible with all those 5th Edition products that you already own and love and all those products that we will release between now and then .... so next year we will have more to say."
Thanks very much for humoring me! Greatly appreciated.
"I can actually reveal today that we have earlier this year - we began work on the next evolution of Dungeons and Dragons - new versions of the Core Rule Books, which will be coming out in 2024 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons ... with the surveys we have been giving out ... the next evolution of the game ... we are doing the best to give you the version of the game that you really want; so we can't really say much more yet about what our plans are, as we are still making them; but you are gonna see more surveys like that .... next year - the timing is next year, so next year we will have plenty more to say about those books and what they mean for D&D .... one thing by the way I can assure you these new versions of the books are gonna be completley compatible with all those 5th Edition products that you already own and love and all those products that we will release between now and then .... so next year we will have more to say."
So 4e essentials but for 5e?
KorvinStarmast
2021-09-27, 11:13 AM
Since mid-2013, more like. Laughed, I did. :smallsmile:
Having just purchased the latest couple books for 5.0 I would be rather unhappy to find out they sold these new books knowing they were about to do a new 5.5. I bet I would not be alone. Likewise. But I've seen this movie before, AD&D 1e to AD&D 2e ... :smallfrown: I had just gotten married and all of a sudden my gaming budget shrank.
Lmao, its just going to be a leatherbound PHB. Hmm, my PHB is already taken apart and in a three ring binder, indexed by me. :smallwink:
The ACFs were more in the vein of "here's more power for everyone". And mostly in an ignorable fashion, with a few QoL additions. It handled buyers remorse on cantrips well, though.
What Tasha's was, was power creep.
Yep.
Without thought for the structure or established acceptable power limits. Which is one reason, among many, why I don't look to WotC to "fix" issues--their "fixes" tend to
a) misunderstand the issue
b) fix the misunderstood issue by pumping more power into the system and destabilizing things further and doing so in ways that annoy chunks of the player base. Mostly agree.
They lucked out (IMO) with the base 5e rules. The number of things that just don't work is...small, and the extensibility and stability under change for the things I want to do differently[1] is large. Yep.
This is most likely going to be PHB + XGtE + TCoE with an extra round of errata applied, especially to TCoE, to address some issues people have had in feedback regarding the new subclasses and with the PHB classes/subclasses. From SCAG I'd like to see Arcana Cleric added to the next release. I'd also like to see the Genasi from Elemental Evil make it into Core. (And again, lose the Yuan Ti PC race. Just a bad idea).
Clearly, all the dragon stuff being a Dragonlance teaser was just misdirection, and this will be the announcement of Dungeons and Dragonriders of Pern, the boxed set! But that, I probably would.
Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse. :smallfrown:. Mord's was not a great supplement. But it was OK.
Most likely, the exact phrasing is "new versions of the core rulebooks" along with a promise of backwards compatibility, so definitely a 5.5e type of change.
That's how I took the overly wordy announcement.
"Completely compatible" to me would be that the 5.5 book's classes work with the 5e subclasses in XGtE and TCoE.
As for the stuff coming in January, I am hopeful for the reprinted races. Maybe Genasi won't suck this time? And some SCAG items like Undying Warlock and Arcana Cleric?
Yeah. After Tasha's, my confidence that any changes will be positive, well thought out, or cohesive and lore friendly is...not very high. As I read through the Wild Beyond the Witchwild, I am seeing a significant change on style and tone; not sure what's behind it, but I think it reflects on some meta issues.
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-27, 11:18 AM
As I read through the Wild Beyond the Witchwild, I am seeing a significant change on style and tone; not sure what's behind it, but I think it reflects on some meta issues.
And that's what I'm most afraid of. Because I liked the original philosophy. And so changes to that philosophy, especially hidden behind their unwillingness (or inability) to articulate that philosophy clearly are worry-some. Frankly, if they're listening to and responding to feedback from forums like this one, I'm going to stick to 5.0 and/or diverge along my own path.
KorvinStarmast
2021-09-27, 11:20 AM
Frankly, if they're listening to and responding to feedback from forums like this one, I'm going to stick to 5.0 and/or diverge along my own path. If you'll please do the former, I'd certainly appreciate that for purely selfish reasons. Campaign 2.0 for starters. :smallbiggrin:
Greywander
2021-09-27, 11:25 AM
Is anyone really expecting a 5.5e? I'm going to guess it's more of a 5.1e. Now, I didn't get into D&D until right near the release of 5e, so I'm unfamiliar with the differences between 3e and 3.5e, but I imagine they're not going to make any super huge changes. I feel like a proper 5.5e would do things like completely rewrite entire classes, add a new rest category (my vote goes to the vacation, 1 week of rest with 8 hours sleep and 8 hours light activity per day), change how the action economy works (e.g. get rid of bonus actions, or add a new type of action), etc. If they're just tweaking a few racial traits, that's not a new edition.
But the typical "PHB+1" rule prevents a lot of that.
I don't play AL, but I thought they got rid of that rule. I think now it just restricts which books you can use, but otherwise you can use content from as many of those books as you like. I'm pretty sure both XGtE and TCoE are on the approved list.
If the new (half?-)edition's changes are just codifying things to "fix problematic elements," they're going to be blasted by the very people they seek to appease, because trends for what is "problematic" will have shifted dramatically by the time this comes out.
If, on the other hand, they are going to try to take lessons learned and experimented with over the last few years, and leave the "well, D&D was morally wrong before we made these changes, but now we're fixing it" to a minimum, this could be a useful move.
Honestly, I'm not hopeful. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. The devs are too busy listening to people who don't even buy their products, they won't wake up until their sales start tanking badly. And by the time they realize they've lost their audience, it might be too late for them to recover. Sadly, we've seen this happen before many times.
Wanna hear a funny joke? Evil Hat Productions, the creators of the highly popular Fate system, published a new title called "Thirsty Sword Lesbians". That's not the funny part. The funny part is that they also published a list of political views you have to have in order to be "allowed" to play the game. Actually, it's not funny at all because it's 100% real. I would link to the tweet, but I'm afraid it would violate the forum's "no politics" rule (you can find it yourself on their twitter, it was posted Sept. 5th). This might sound like a joke now, but I believe this is a harbinger of where the tabletop industry is heading over the next few years. This will be D&D before too long.
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-27, 11:27 AM
If you'll please do the former, I'd certainly appreciate that for purely selfish reasons. Campaign 2.0 for starters. :smallbiggrin:
Yeah. That's the more likely (especially short-term) approach, mainly because
a) I'm fairly satisfied with what I've got already
b) more importantly, I'm lazy.
Eventually there would be divergence, just due to the accumulation of tweaks. But the core stuff is already in a comfortable place, so I'm not seeing the need to change things. Which is one reason I'm wary of 5.5--I just don't see the need for significant changes worthy of reprinting the books. Everything that "needs" fixing is errata level at most and is more like "things different tables should be fine with doing differently, so no global 'fixes' needed" in the main. But if they're reprinting things, the nature of business is that doing so for errata isn't worth the fixed costs. So they'll find something else (or more likely somethings else) to "fix" and will likely bodge it up.
KorvinStarmast
2021-09-27, 12:27 PM
So they'll find something else (or more likely somethings else) to "fix" and will likely bodge it up. Oh, yes, they will. See Tasha's. :smallcool:
FWIW, I am finally finished designing something with Rune in mind (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636839-Very-Rare-Item-have-I-got-the-power-level-right) and have some revisions to it here. I think the party is going for "each get one thing" or "each get one favor" and this is the kind of thing, what with Eldest being related to The Watcher, that might be kind of cool for Rund.
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25208236&postcount=1
Please let me know if I got that about right.
rooneg
2021-09-27, 12:30 PM
I don't play AL, but I thought they got rid of that rule.
As of AL Season 11 (i.e. like last week) the PHB+1 rule is entirely gone.
Yeah. That's the more likely (especially short-term) approach, mainly because
a) I'm fairly satisfied with what I've got already
b) more importantly, I'm lazy.
Eventually there would be divergence, just due to the accumulation of tweaks. But the core stuff is already in a comfortable place, so I'm not seeing the need to change things. Which is one reason I'm wary of 5.5--I just don't see the need for significant changes worthy of reprinting the books. Everything that "needs" fixing is errata level at most and is more like "things different tables should be fine with doing differently, so no global 'fixes' needed" in the main. But if they're reprinting things, the nature of business is that doing so for errata isn't worth the fixed costs. So they'll find something else (or more likely somethings else) to "fix" and will likely bodge it up.
I think the main needed fix is explaining the weapon thing better.
Otherwise the rules are quite understandable for people coming from another D20 system such as D20 modern.
PhoenixPhyre
2021-09-27, 01:32 PM
I think the main needed fix is explaining the weapon thing better.
Otherwise the rules are quite understandable for people coming from another D20 system such as D20 modern.
Even that's a fairly edge-casey thing and getting it wrong doesn't really break anything no matter which way you consider "wrong". Heck, you could merge all "melee attacks" (ie with weapon, without weapon, spell) into one bucket and all "ranged attacks" into another bucket for 99.999999% of uses without any significant issues, as long as you kept track of which modifier gets used (which is the part that isn't confusing in all of this).
Tanarii
2021-09-27, 02:47 PM
So 4e essentials but for 5e?
Eviscerate the current edition as your* pet design test-bed in preparation for the next edition?
I'm not still salty about that at all. Even if I did like the resulting next edition. :smallamused:
*Your in this case being Mike Mearls.
A Baldur's Gate character that was a reference to Spelljammer. The latter's wacky lore includes gnomish ships being powered by running wheels with bear-sized hamsters in them. Boo came with the added joke that he somehow went back to being a rodent of very usual size.
Also, the 5e adventure Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage had another miniature giant space hamster show up inside a crashed illithid ship, explicitly referred to as a spelljamming vessel.https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/6/66/Illithid_space_hamster-5e.jpg
And really, what does being a Baldur's Gate character entail? The first game took place in and around the titular city, but Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn didn't bother with the first half of its title.
I wouldn't be surprised either, but nonetheless very disappointed and also angry with all the tease.
In fact, the biggest one came from the opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate III. The game is still in early access, so I haven't played it yet.
https://youtu.be/jNY7AEQ59-8
Note that, when I posted the link, the video was still in streaming mode. The part I watched now begins at 8:00:40 (https://youtu.be/sxb8xiDU5Kw?t=28840).
The Boo Spelljammer thing is likely the Setting Cameos in an FR adventure next year. Full setting books are for Tier 1 settings, not Tier 2 settings, T2 settings get canoes at best, like Council of Wyrms and Dragonlance in Fizbans. Tier 1 settings are Darksun, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Eberron, and Planescape. Tier 2 Settings are Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, and maybe some others, I forget. Tier 3 get more rare camoes if they really fit something like Council of Wyrms in Fizbans and or Mystara with Ghosts of Salt Marsh.
This may change when all the Tier all the Tier 1 settings have setting books that folks are happy with for the most part.
This backed up by the fact that all the classic settings published so far for 5e are Tier 1 Settings, Eberron, Ravenloft, and Forgotten Realms (sort of, it's kind of a failed prototype, hence why it's likely to get the classic setting revisit in 2023).
I think the book that will be announced next month in October will be Darksun and its going to be announced so soon is because they will release a UA tied to it with a new Psion class and Darksun races. Planescape will almost certain come next year as well, they were laying on the Multiverse hints on dang thick and it too is a T1 setting.
This will complete the Tier one Settings by 2023, leaving things open for new settings and possibly some tier 2 settings starting in 2024, most likely Greyhawk to tie into the 50th anniversary.
The Boo Spelljammer thing is likely the Setting Cameos in an FR adventure next year. Full setting books are for Tier 1 settings, not Tier 2 settings, T2 settings get canoes at best, like Council of Wyrms and Dragonlance in Fizbans. Tier 1 settings are Darksun, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Eberron, and Planescape. Tier 2 Settings are Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, and maybe some others, I forget. Tier 3 get more rare camoes if they really fit something like Council of Wyrms in Fizbans and or Mystara with Ghosts of Salt Marsh.
This may change when all the Tier all the Tier 1 settings have setting books that folks are happy with for the most part.
This backed up by the fact that all the classic settings published so far for 5e are Tier 1 Settings, Eberron, Ravenloft, and Forgotten Realms (sort of, it's kind of a failed prototype, hence why it's likely to get the classic setting revisit in 2023).
I think the book that will be announced next month in October will be Darksun and its going to be announced so soon is because they will release a UA tied to it with a new Psion class and Darksun races. Planescape will almost certain come next year as well, they were laying on the Multiverse hints on dang thick and it too is a T1 setting.
This will complete the Tier one Settings by 2023, leaving things open for new settings and possibly some tier 2 settings starting in 2024, most likely Greyhawk to tie into the 50th anniversary.
New info from Ray Winningers Twitter "It's different. Two classic settings next year and a third in 2023, none of which were covered by previous 5E products. We're looking at "revisiting" a setting in 2024."
So bump the FR return to likely AFTER 5.5e Core Set, I should have seen this coming, new Campaign Setting books for FR come early during new editions (minor or major), not in the middle of a current edition. The same was true in previous edition like 3e and then in 3.5e and 4e and then again early on in the 4e Essentials minor edition change.
This also allows the book to include stuff from the current Drizzt trilogy and the D&D movie and BG3 without spoiling things from them before they even come out and for it to have the most up to date 5.5e mechanics. They did say they had major plans for 2024 the 50th anniversary, not just 5.5e core books, I assumed that meant Greyhawk, but I guess it's a new edition Campaign Book for FR, hopefully far better designed and usable then the SCAG, which while fixing some stuff 4e broke and adding some cool stuff, was way too bare bones and mechanically unbalanced.
Segev
2021-09-28, 02:01 PM
Tier 3 get more rare camoes if they really fit something like Council of Wyrms in Fizbans and or Mystara with Ghosts of Salt Marsh.
Oh, wow, Mystara. I know so little about that, but one of the first campaign boxed sets I was given by my parents when I got into D&D was for Hollow World, which is connected to Mystara by virtue of Mystara being the world that is hollowed out to make room for that setting.
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