The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

[Ionathus]

This is clearly the most important thing for us to be discussing right now.

Serini is shown growing crops in her lair at the North Pole. Fresh vegetables and grains are some of the highest sources of fiber available. Mark Watney grew potatoes on Mars -- why can't an Epic Level Rogue with presumed agricultural experience (and a sick badass lair that acts as the Final Dungeon) manage to grow some lentils, carrots, or oatmeal in her spare time?

This is not a rhetorical question. 3.5e has a lot of rules I don't know about, so clearly there's a basis for this in RAW, we just have to find it. Serious answers only.

[brian 333]

Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers.

All over Europe there are little stone walls marking out tiny fields. These little patches were kitchen plots for the serfs who worked the master's cash crop fields. About an acre was what a man could effectively work using Medieval technology. That's a reliable source of greens and turnips at best.

If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop.

The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now.

[skim172]

Growing plants underground is not an easy task. Serini has to address the lack of sunlight and the lack of nutrient-rich soil. The latter can be addressed with use of hydroponics; the former with the magical fantasy equivalent of a grow lamp. However, grow lamps are energy-intensive - Serini would need to be casting Daylight every hour, or constantly running the magical fantasy equivalent of a big generator. That might not be the best use of her resources.

Managing the cold temperatures would be an issue as well. Theoretically, she could heat her whole setup with geothermal energy, I suppose.

But the cold also poses a different issue. Our bodies have to maintain an internal temperature of 97-98 degrees. In freezing environments, it really has to work to keep the body warm - which burns a huge amount of calories.

The real-world comparison to Serini's situation is Antarctic research stations (Here's a great little video that talks about the food situation down there, via PBS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzlA9HDNwBs)). Food in the Antarctic is shipped from the mainland and stored for a year in advance. Keeping it frozen is obviously not an issue (they actually have heaters in their refrigerators, so the food can thaw). Fresh produce can be flown in during the summer months, and a limited amount can be grown in hothouses, but this is a rarity. Generally, you're eating defrosted or dried or canned or otherwise-preserved food.

But because of the cold, people in Antarctic research stations are constantly burning calories just to stay warm. Which means they have to eat - a lot. The average person has to consume about 3,000 to 5,000 calories per day - possibly more, if the individual is doing a lot of heavy work outdoors. Imagine having to eat a minimum of 3 Big Mac combo meals - with medium Coke and fries - every day ... or you'll start losing weight. That's a reality for Antarctic residents.

(I am surprised that "going to Antarctica, to toil" has not yet become a celebrity weight loss trend.)

Serini has the benefit of not having to feed an entire research station, but she doesn't have the cellphone reception to be able to call in a Boeing C-17 to deliver fresh supplies. And she's gonna have to eat a lot in order to stay healthy. Her best source for calorie-dense food is going to be meat. She could supplement that with a small amount of vegetables harvested from her hydroponic garden - but that would merely be a garnish. She has to eat meat to survive. And she's got a dungeon full of monsters right there - it's basically a giant larder.

(Of course, that brings up the question of what all those monsters are eating, but to address that would bring us dangerously close to undermining the very concept of the classic D&D monster dungeon, on the grounds of ecological sustainability.)

[RatElemental]

If she could get a half celestial monster of some sort as a gardener they get daylight as an at will spell-like ability. Could go one step further and make them a water genasi who get create water for free once per day to water the plants with. Slap a few druid, cleric, archivist or ranger levels on them and they could prepare and cast plant growth every day to boost yearly yields by 1/3rd as well, or more likely just have a once per day magic item of the spell crafted for them to use.

[Darth Paul]

She probably took a couple levels of Druid during the decades up there in her lair, and focused it all on plant-based spells and survival skills rather than attack or defense. After all, she knew she would have this issue coming up.

Or she cut a deal with some selected, more intelligent monsters; they bring her an order of tomato and cuke plants now and then, and keep stumm about the dungeon, and in return they don't get stuck in it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of 12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers. There are a variety of low level spells (unseen servant) that can probably be put into wands to help with that. Likewise plant growth.

If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop. One word: constructs. Also, her troll regeneration scheme either makes up for her lack of nutrition, or, it doubles her metabolic rate and requires more food. But remember: she's feeding a halfling, not a human. Cut the caloric intake down.
The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now. Yes. Maybe even a gin and tonic with a twist of lime, or a margerita. :smallsmile:


Growing plants underground is not an easy task. Serini has to address the lack of sunlight and the lack of nutrient-rich soil. Daylight spell: on wands, no? But that might get expensive. 10-12 hours of sunlight a day starts to add up. (There is, however, a way to use mirrors to reflect sunlight down into basements (Sci Am had an article on that a few decades ago, interesting application of solar power) but I am not sure if she wants that potential security breach).
See also "create food and water" spells on a wand for reserve calories.

Managing the cold temperatures would be an issue as well. Theoretically, she could heat her whole setup with geothermal energy, I suppose. Or she lives underground, which puts her ambient temp at about 59 Degrees F. But I agree with the geothermal approach, if she can manage it. If she had folks digging things out of multidimensional stone, they could burrow down a hundred feet or so and dig her out her own cave.


And she's gonna have to eat a lot in order to stay healthy. Her best source for calorie-dense food is going to be meat. She could supplement that with a small amount of vegetables harvested from her hydroponic garden - but that would merely be a garnish. She has to eat meat to survive. And she's got a dungeon full of monsters right there - it's basically a giant larder. She has a body mass of what, fifty to sixty pounds, maybe? Cut her caloric requirements by about a third from your model, and consider her environment to be a stable 59 degrees F unless she goes outside.

See also a magic item: Ring of Warmth. (Lien has one of those, right? Or something like that; her ring of water breathing protects her against cold (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html))
See also a magic item:
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

(Of course, that brings up the question of what all those monsters are eating, but to address that would bring us dangerously close to undermining the very concept of the classic D&D monster dungeon, on the grounds of ecological sustainability.) Yes.

FWIW, oats are a great source of fiber. All she needs is a teleportation circle and a once per quarter TP to a market and she gets a few bags of oats. A pound of oats (see gruel/oatmeal/porridge) (ten pounds of oats) lasts a long time if you have a bowl of oatmeal per day for breakfast - your dietary fiber. (Supplement with occasional bowls of beans. A fifty pound sack of beans (kidney, navy, pinto) isn't very expensive. When I make a pound of pinto beans I get a lot of servings out of it. Water she's not short of, salt can be had at the same market).
Why a TP circle? Only she knows the runes/sequence that gets that circle to respond.

Teleportation circle can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent teleportation circle that is disabled becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again as normal.

Note: Magic traps such as teleportation circle are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the circle and Disable Device to thwart it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 34 in the case of teleportation circle. (And maybe that's related to her misdirection thing inside the caves).
Who made it for her? Dorukan, back when he was still alive. (Or he knew a guy, as it were, in wizard circles who owed him a favor).

If all you lack is fiber, you don't need fresh veggies (beans and oats have you covered) but, there are some vitamins like Magnesium and Potassium (mushrooms for the latter, in her caves) that you don't want to be without and that are often found in veggies.

Lastly: a daylight spell, permanent, could have been cast in the underground chambers where she farms, but I am not sure if Dorukan would have agreed to the XP loss for that? (Plus, I don't see daylight on the list of spells one can perm in the SRD, but if the OoTS world has a bit of homebrew already, I think it's doable...) Arcane and Divine spell casters working together ... gee, is here an example of that already? :smallbiggrin:

[brian 333]

If anything, the caloric intake of a halfling is higher than a human at the pole because lower body mass and bare feet make heat retention harder.

As for her garden:
Lirian, honey, what do I need to grow fresh vegetables underground at the pole?

[Ephemera]

Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers.

All over Europe there are little stone walls marking out tiny fields. These little patches were kitchen plots for the serfs who worked the master's cash crop fields. About an acre was what a man could effectively work using Medieval technology. That's a reliable source of greens and turnips at best.

If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop.

The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now.

Just a nitpick (but what else are we here for), but doesn't that mean an acre is how much land you can work in the (presumably extremely limited) free time afforded a medieval serf and that you could work lots more in a reasonable work day?

[Peelee]

(I am surprised that "going to Antarctica, to toil" has not yet become a celebrity weight loss trend.)

At the risk of sounding unoriginal... one does not simply walk into Antarctica.

[King of Nowhere]

She probably took a couple levels of Druid during the decades up there in her lair, and focused it all on plant-based spells and survival skills rather than attack or defense. After all, she knew she would have this issue coming up.

Or she cut a deal with some selected, more intelligent monsters; they bring her an order of tomato and cuke plants now and then, and keep stumm about the dungeon, and in return they don't get stuck in it.

or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

yes, i know. I'm ruining a party here

[AgentofOdd]

or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

yes, i know. I'm ruining a party hereI get the sneaking suspicion that this is the real reason why Senri has toilet troubles. As an Epic character she could afford to eat a healthy diet if she wants to. It's just that as a busy working mom it's easier to use the ring so she very rarely eats actual food. This ends up with her having a slow digestive system that's often backed up.

[brian 333]

Just a nitpick (but what else are we here for), but doesn't that mean an acre is how much land you can work in the (presumably extremely limited) free time afforded a medieval serf and that you could work lots more in a reasonable work day?

True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule, (which is why almost all of North America is surveyed out in 40 acre squares.) But that includes a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is, how big is an acre?

Essentially, an acre was what a man and mule could plough in a day, and that varied a lot depending on what kind of soil and mule you had. Even today a city acre and a country acre are different sizes.

[skim172]

She has a body mass of what, fifty to sixty pounds, maybe? Cut her caloric requirements by about a third from your model, and consider her environment to be a stable 59 degrees F unless she goes outside.

Typical living area temperatures in Antarctic research stations are kept around 70 F (21 C). I contend that this remains a fairly good comparison to Serini's situation - her living areas might be heated, but I'm sure her daily routine would involve having to go into unheated areas. I just can't imagine her spending all her time curled up next to a radiator.

(Certainly, underground caves would be warmer than the surface, but that's relative. This study of underground temperatures at Japan's Syowa/Showa Station (https://doi.org/10.1016/0264-3707(86)90046-3) found mean temps around -8 C (17 F) at 6.8 meters below surface. This was warmer than mean surface temps of -10.8 C (13 F), but I think we can agree that's still pretty chilly.)

Caloric intake doesn't decrease in direct proportion to weight. The average resting metabolic rate for individuals with achrondoplasia (https://www.beyondachondroplasia.org/en/health/health-guide/nutritional-guide) is about 1000 to 1800.

The average height of achrondoplastics is about 4 ft-4 ft 4 (122-132 cm), which is technically higher than the official height for halflings, which is 3 ft (91 cm) in the sourcebooks and 3 ft 6 (106 cm) in Tolkien. However, I contend halflings in the Stickverse are much taller than that. Based on the comics, Belkar easily reaches Roy's nipples, which I will unscientifically guess are about 2/3 up the human body, and I peg Roy as about 6 ft (183 cm).

In fact, in Origin of Species, Vaarsuvius writes down their height as 151 cm (4 ft 11.5), and Belkar at least reaches their mouth. Some very undignified self-measuring I just did right now by holding a piece of paper in my teeth indicates that the top of my head to my mouth is slightly less than the width of an A4 sheet of paper, or 21 cm. If I guess that Vaarsuvius has an especially large head (because they're an elf and elves are always winding on about being so much brainier than everyone else), then that slides Belkar into comfortably into about 125 cm or so. And, per Comic #125 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0125.html), Belkar was the "smallest and weakest" of the halflings. If we accept his words at face value (which now that I think about, we probably shouldn't because he was obviously making stuff up), then he might be at the bottom range of your standard halfling.

So Serini, if we assume is an average halfling, could have a resting metabolic rate of about 1000-1800, similar to the average human with achrondoplasia. Since the average human at least doubles their daily caloric need upon going to the Antarctic, then Serini is gonna need to tuck away 2000-3600 calories up there.


But there's a wrinkle. Halflings are not humans - their biology could be quite different. If we refer back to Tolkien, we see that they eat 6 to 7 meals per day - and halflings of the Stickverse share these gastronomic tendencies. Based on that, we can surmise that halfling daily calorie intake is actually more than it would be for a similar sized human.

And such is confirmed by this scholarly journal article: "Modelling the BMR of Species in Middle Earth (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/267014050.pdf)". This study created a model based on animals with similar diets to Middle Earth species, then calculated the scale factor, to ultimately arrive at a basal metabolic rate of of 1818.61 kilocalories per day. (The same authors also calculated just how many lembas bread the Fellowship would've needed to simply walk into Mordor (https://www108.lamp.le.ac.uk/ojs1/index.php/jist/article/viewFile/768/720).)

However, their model was based on a hobbit which was 3 ft 6 tall. But as I argued above, Stick-verse halflings are significantly larger than that. So the BMR could be even higher.

The conclusion is inescapable: Halflings must spend A LOT of time on the toilet, fiber or no.


However .... I must admit - there is one thing that could bring this house of cards crashing down around me.

And that's Comic #165 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html), in which Belkar states he weighs about 30 pounds. Which means that halflings in the Stick-verse are substantially less dense than real-world humans. Perhaps halflings have hollow bones, like birds. Maybe their internal biology is just a series of gas-filled bladders. Perhaps their skeleton is just a wireframe made out of pure lithium (can lithium be made into wires?).

However, I am willing to pull any or all of the following nonsensical excuses out of my posterior donkey to defend my ridiculous idiocy:

1) Belkar is speaking in fantasy-world "pounds", which are not the same as our real-world pounds from the British Imperial system of weights and measures.
2) Belkar is referring the UK currency "pounds" - he's saying that his personal net-worth is equivalent to 30 British pounds-sterling. (The conversion rate is murder)
3) The planet on which the Order reside has a much ligher gravity than our Earth, and Belkar is indeed 30 pounds in weight, but under their gravity. His body mass is substantially more than that.
4) Belkar, like all halflings, has a tiny singularity in his head which generates its own gravity well. Belkar only weighs 30 pounds, because he generates a gravity field that actually pulls him upwards. The singularity is in his skull - hence his rather large head - and is the reason why halflings are so good at acrobatics, as they have limited control over their local gravity. This also explains their voracious appetites - gotta feed that black hole he has instead of a brain.( This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and you should not ask any physicists about whether any of this holds up.)
5) Belkar is speaking of pounds as a measure of velocity, rather than mass - as in "I can do the Kessel Run in 30 pounds".





or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

yes, i know. I'm ruining a party here

Dammit.

:smallmad:

[Peelee]

True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule, (which is why almost all of North America is surveyed out in 40 acre squares.) But that includes a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is, how big is an acre?

Essentially, an acre was what a man and mule could plough in a day, and that varied a lot depending on what kind of soil and mule you had. Even today a city acre and a country acre are different sizes.

That doesn't sound right. In fact, I'm fairly positive most of it is not.

"40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres. The mule was added in much later.

North America is surveyed out in square miles. 40 acres is a subset of this, but it is defined as a quarter-quarter section - that is, one sixteenth of the base unit, which is square miles.

An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen (not one man and one mule) could plough in a day.

Finally, the US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters. There is some variance in the exact size of an acre depending on whether one is using a survey foot or a survey yard (survey foot = 0.3048006 ft/m, or 0.9144018 yd/m, this is the American standard; while survey yard = 0.3048 ft/m, or 0.9144 yd/m, this is the international standard), but this is generally not an issue, and regardless, neither are referred to as "city acres" or "country acres".

[brian 333]

I'm actually in the process of buying 17 acres and did a bit of research.

[Peelee]

I'm actually in the process of buying 17 acres and did a bit of research.

By all means, feel free to share your research. I would love to know if I am wrong. Especially on:

"40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres.
North America is surveyed out in square miles.
An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen could plough in a day.
The US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters.

[brian 333]

By all means, feel free to share your research. I would love to know if I am wrong. Especially on:

"40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres.
North America is surveyed out in square miles.
An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen could plough in a day.
The US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters.


Yes, oxen, not mules. I remembered the quote and misapplied it, but the idea is the same. One man, one beast, one plough, one day.

The U.S. is laid out in 160 acre sections which are divided into four 40 acre squares, which may be subdivided into four 10 acre squares. If you look at a plat map of almost anywhere in the U.S. and Western Canada, you will see 40 acre squares defining the map.

As of 1959 that is true. Before then a mix of definitions existed. Southeast Louisiana was laid out in arpents!

And what I called a city acre is technically known as a Builder's Acre. It is smaller than a surveyor's acre, and is in current use in the U.S.

I apologise for the digression. My intent was to remark on the difficulty of small scale farming, not to debate weights and measures.

Just for fun: the land I'm getting is 2 ten acre squares minus a previously sold 3 acre lot. There is a hill loaded with hicory trees, (pignut,) a few hundred muskedine grape vines, uncounted huckleberry bushes, and a stream that almost runs the short-side property llne. I don't have a mule, but I have a 4wd pickup and a friend with a skid steer.

[snowblizz]

True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule,

I had a poke around because, and the average 1300s peasant in Sweden is estimated to have had 22 acres of farmland. 19th century technology would provide better yields on the same acreage. And the US has a nicer climate than Sweden, and a whole lot easier workable land.

[Dion]

I had a poke around because, and the average 1300s peasant in Sweden is estimated to have had 22 acres of farmland. 19th century technology would provide better yields on the same acreage. And the US has a nicer climate than Sweden, and a whole lot easier workable land.

Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesn’t mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isn’t raising livestock, I’m guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.

[brian 333]

Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesn’t mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isn’t raising livestock, I’m guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.

And if she has only a handful of planters, chances are good they are growing alchemy components and maybe some spices.

[Peelee]

Yes, oxen, not mules. I remembered the quote and misapplied it, but the idea is the same. One man, one beast, one plough, one day.
Again, two. Two beasts. There is quite a bit of disparity between a pair of oxen and a lone mule.

The U.S. is laid out in 160 acre sections
Notably, 160 acres is not 40 acres. If you quarter that, then sure, you get 40 acre sections. But then 160 acre sections are simply quartered square miles, so either way, the claim that we're measured in 40 acre sections is incorrect.

As of 1959 that is true. Before then a mix of definitions existed. Southeast Louisiana was laid out in arpents!
And before 1776, a mix of different nations existed here. I assumed your claim was for current structure.

And what I called a city acre is technically known as a Builder's Acre. It is smaller than a surveyor's acre, and is in current use in the U.S.
Similarly, I assumed that when talking about survey measurements, we are not talking about construction measurements.

[brian 333]

Again, two. Two beasts. There is quite a bit of disparity between a pair of oxen and a lone mule.

Notably, 160 acres is not 40 acres. If you quarter that, then sure, you get 40 acre sections. But then 160 acre sections are simply quartered square miles, so either way, the claim that we're measured in 40 acre sections is incorrect.

And before 1776, a mix of different nations existed here. I assumed your claim was for current structure.

Similarly, I assumed that when talking about survey measurements, we are not talking about construction measurements.

I didn't set out to have a scholarly article on the usage of the word acre. I was making a point about the difficulty of farming underground in the arctic.

I have seen the one man and an ox, and I have seen a yoke of oxen both used to define an acre. The latter is a very old legal definition, the former a description. Neither is exact. Exact would be 66 chains by 660 chains, but then the size of an acre would depend on what size foot you use. Sigh. If only they had picked one standard and stuck with it. The size of an acre as we understand it was established in 1959. Before then there was a lot of variance.

Look at a plat map of your home region. Your state university or county tax assessor should have one online. Away from cities and rivers that alter the shapes, you will see a grid pattern. Those are quarter-section squares that define road and infrastructure right of ways. 40 acre squares. Coincidence?

Since I specifically cited 1800s, I don't see how that got confused with modern, post 1959 standards. I apologize for my lack of clarity.

And when I cited city acre vs. country acre, (terms used by a property manager friend in describing the variety of meanings of the word acre,) I was pointing out that even now not all acres are the same. (Both terms are used by surveyors to describe properties in terms most useful to the customer.

None of this has anything to do with what Serini is potentially growing in her arctic garden. It may potentially impact the size of her garden cave if halflings use acres instead of hectares for land measurement.

[snowblizz]

Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesn’t mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isn’t raising livestock, I’m guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.

That was *specifically* cultivated fields actually. Forest resources and several types of meadows were largely commons at the time. And ofc the average will vary a lot, in the north the arable acreage would be significantly lower as the focus was more on livestock rearing due to much reduce farming yields from the northern climate. In the south fields would be larger as it would be more directed towards growing cereals.

The point I was making is that 40 aces isn't a minimum subsistence farming in the 1800s. It's a sizeable farm, and produced a lot more than a mediaeval equivalent at that, so is even more prosperous than straight acreage would suggest.

[KorvinStarmast]

However .... I must admit - there is one thing that could bring this house of cards crashing down around me.

And that's Comic #165 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html), in which Belkar states he weighs about 30 pounds. Sorry, I should have mentioned that Belkar's point on what he weighed, and my brain taking half troll and adding some weight, informed my guess as to her weight. While I didn't think that was necessary, I forgot how deep one can dig when one gets into fun discussions like this one. :smallsmile:

[brian 333]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that Belkar's point on what he weighed, and my brain taking half troll and adding some weight, informed my guess as to her weight. While I didn't think that was necessary, I forgot how deep one can dig when one gets into fun discussions like this one. :smallsmile:

One might mention that there may be issues with teaching halfling children to walk. It's difficult enough with human children whose heads are proportionally large and mounted on slender, undeveloped necks. Although that may be why halfling necks are strong enough to mitigate the hazards of execution by hanging.

And now I am stuck wondering about halfling hips and childbirth. Do they have a hinged pelvis?

[Nymrod]

Get a deepspawn, feed it a shambling mount (or other plant monster), infinite fiber source.

Alternatively in most Underdark civilizations in D&D across editions there are mentions of fibrous fungi that are staples of their cuisine (and many make wines or other forms of alcohol and even flour from fungi).

[danielxcutter]

Are we sure she hasn’t been teleporting to Cliffport to get her supplies?

[DavidSh]

Are we sure she hasn’t been teleporting to Cliffport to get her supplies?
I suppose that's possible. If I read the documentation aright, it would require either somebody who can cast 5th level spells and who knows both endpoints of the trip well, or consuming fairly expensive magic items.

I think she'd rather not let anybody else know where she is living here. I don't have any idea what her budget can cover, nor whether she can cast such spells herself.

[RatElemental]

I suppose that's possible. If I read the documentation aright, it would require either somebody who can cast 5th level spells and who knows both endpoints of the trip well, or consuming fairly expensive magic items.

I think she'd rather not let anybody else know where she is living here. I don't have any idea what her budget can cover, nor whether she can cast such spells herself.

Or she could just have a permanent teleportation circle set up somewhere to go to Cliffport and a 1/day item of word of recall to return.

[danielxcutter]

Or she could just have a permanent teleportation circle set up somewhere to go to Cliffport and a 1/day item of word of recall to return.

Tippyverse ahoy!

[RatElemental]

Tippyverse ahoy!

I mean if we're going full Tippyverse she wouldn't even need to go to Cliffport because she'd have a dozen repeating create food and water traps pumping out food for her and all her monsters and some repeating wish traps literally printing money and magic items.

[danielxcutter]

I mean if we're going full Tippyverse she wouldn't even need to go to Cliffport because she'd have a dozen repeating create food and water traps pumping out food for her and all her monsters and some repeating wish traps literally printing money and magic items.

I am unsure if Create Food and Water provides fiber-rich food.

[RatElemental]

I am unsure if Create Food and Water provides fiber-rich food.

It creates a bland version of whatever basic meal you want. Porridge and oatmeal are simple and already pretty bland.

Can always add a prestidigitation trap or two to spice up the food anyway.

[Lord Torath]

One might mention that there may be issues with teaching halfling children to walk. It's difficult enough with human children whose heads are proportionally large and mounted on slender, undeveloped necks. Although that may be why halfling necks are strong enough to mitigate the hazards of execution by hanging.

And now I am stuck wondering about halfling hips and childbirth. Do they have a hinged pelvis?Well, Dark Sun halflings are described as having the same body proportions as humans, so there'd be no issues. On the other hand, OOTS characters all have abnormally large heads, so who knows?

Regarding the specifics and origins of acres, there are forum members on multiple continents* with a plethora of scientific careers that require utilizing a wide range of units. You should ALWAYS expect unit-of-measurement discussions! :smallamused: (Rather like how you should always expect a head rub (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1038.html).)

* Most of us are in North America. I know of at least two forumites in South America, several from Europe, a few from Asia, and a pair from Australia. I can't think of any from Africa, but that could just be me being forgetful - or not visiting the right parts of the forum. If any of us have ever been to Antartica, I'd love to hear about it!

[DavidSh]

* Most of us are in North America. I know of at least two forumites in South America, several from Europe, a few from Asia, and a pair from Australia. I can't think of any from Africa, but that could just be me being forgetful - or not visiting the right parts of the forum. If any of us have ever been to Antartica, I'd love to hear about it!
I've been to Antarctica, but only for about an hour or so on the mainland, in the most-northern parts, and only a stone's throw from the sea. It was a soft adventure cruise out of Ushuaia, that also visited South Georgia Island. Lots of penguins, seals, albatrosses, and icebergs. No bugbears.

[Lord Torath]

Lots of penguins, seals, albatrosses, and icebergs. No bugbears.Of course not! Like polar bears, bugbears live at the North Pole! :smallwink:

[skim172]

One might mention that there may be issues with teaching halfling children to walk. It's difficult enough with human children whose heads are proportionally large and mounted on slender, undeveloped necks. Although that may be why halfling necks are strong enough to mitigate the hazards of execution by hanging.

And now I am stuck wondering about halfling hips and childbirth. Do they have a hinged pelvis?

Halflings are egg-laying mammals. Like the platypus and the echidna.

Although "egg" is misleading. The egg never "hatches" - it just grows in size and eventually develops features - like eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and hair - and thus becomes the head of a halfling child.

Their neck and torso sprout from the head during puberty, like a stem from a seed. When they fully grow all four limbs, then are they considered a grown adult. This is why halflings have such a powerful "wanderlust". You try spending twenty years as mainly a head - you'd want to start walking as much as you could, too.

[brian 333]

Halflings are egg-laying mammals. Like the platypus and the echidna.

Although "egg" is misleading. The egg never "hatches" - it just grows in size and eventually develops features - like eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and hair - and thus becomes the head of a halfling child.

Their neck and torso sprout from the head during puberty, like a stem from a seed. When they fully grow all four limbs, then are they considered a grown adult. This is why halflings have such a powerful "wanderlust". You try spending twenty years as mainly a head - you'd want to start walking as much as you could, too.

Thus the origin of the term 'headcanon' came with the gnomish realization of a renewable green source of projectiles for black-powder siege weapons.

[skim172]

Thus the origin of the term 'headcanon' came with the gnomish realization of a renewable green source of projectiles for black-powder siege weapons.

Like bees distributing pollen for the flowers. Truly, a most beautiful and elegant symbiosis.

[Ionathus]

Alternatively in most Underdark civilizations in D&D across editions there are mentions of fibrous fungi that are staples of their cuisine (and many make wines or other forms of alcohol and even flour from fungi).

Is mushroom flour even possible?

Hopefully the lore paid lip service to fungi being genetically closer to animals than plants, but I'm not holding my breath.

Thank you everyone for your answers!

[Nymrod]

Is mushroom flour even possible?

Hopefully the lore paid lip service to fungi being genetically closer to animals than plants, but I'm not holding my breath.

Thank you everyone for your answers!

Yeah you can use powdered dried mushrooms to substitute part of flour. And we definitely make flour from things other than plants; cricket flour is increasingly popular.

Honestly a deepspawn is my answer to every D&D problem.