Do Able Learner and Adaptive Learning basically do the same?

[weckar]

Their wording is very different, but having both Able Learner (feat) and Adaptive Learning (Human Paragon class feature) does not seem to do anything. Am I right in that? Is there some strange edge case where having both may be useful?

I was just trying to build the most human-focus character ever, so I was drawn to Human Paragon/Chameleon, but it comes with this apparent redundancy built-in.

[AmberVael]

They're fairly different.

Adaptive Learning picks one skill and makes it a class skill, forever. This means buying points in it costs 1 per rank, and you can have ranks equal to your class level + 3.

Able Learner makes all skill ranks cost 1 per rank, even if they're cross class skills (which normally cost 1 for half a rank), but does not increase the max rank of cross class skills (half the max rank of class skills).


So there's a number of scenarios where you could want both, either because Adaptive Learning only affects one skill, or because you want to get a skill you're interested in up to a higher max rank.

[weckar]

But if you have Able Learner, there is no skill you can pick with Adaptive Learning that does anything? Because you can only pick skills with Adaptive that are already class skills for Human Paragon?

[hamishspence]

If you have Able Learner, and you have taken 1 level in Human Paragon, and then you start taking levels in different classes (not Factotum), then the skill you have picked for "Adaptive Learning" stays a class skill for all those classes, (so the cap is HD+3) whereas Able Learner does not remove the cap for non-class skills, it just removes the "double price" bit. So, having both can be useful

The point of Adaptive Learning, is to ensure that, no matter what classes you take in future, that one skill you have selected, retains the "HD+3" cap.

The point of Able Learner, is to make sure you don't waste skill points when you spend points on non-class skills - to get the most "bang for your buck" out of every skill point you spent.

[Bavarian itP]

The point of Adaptive Learning, is to ensure that, no matter what classes you take in future, that one skill you have selected, retains the "HD+3" cap.


Nope. Dragon Magazine 350, p.80.

The maximum ranks that a multiclassed character may have in any class skill (regardless of which of that classes has that class skill) is equal to his character level +3.

So the point of adaptive learning is that you always have to pay only 1 skill point for each rank in the respective skill. Able Learner, indeed, makes that redudant.

[hamishspence]

Nope. Dragon Magazine 350, p.80.


Page 59 of the PHB says the same thing - that if a skill is a class skill for any of the multiclass character's classes, max rank in the skill becomes level +3.


However - Able Learner is not completely redundant - it still benefits characters who have not used their Adaptive Learning ability on the relevant skill.

If you've already picked your 10 class skills from Human paragon, and still want to be able to spend 1 point instead of 2 on a skill, that is not a class skill for any of your classes, including Human Paragon, then Able Learner allows you to do that.

[Thurbane]

In short, yes, if you already have Able Learner, Adaptive Learning is basically redundant. The reverse, however, is not true.

Able Learner, while not specifically worded this way, effectively makes any skill that ever been a class skill, always a class skill (i.e. costs one point, and cap is level +3). The rate of points to buy the skill is provided by the feat, and the cap is provided by the default rule.

The feat also provides the additional effect that even for skills that have never been class skills, you still only pay 1 point per rank, instead of 2. I find this can be very handy to pick up little boosts to important skills like Listen, Spot etc. even if you can't max them out, without having to blow extra skill points.

This is all assuming I haven't grossly misunderstood or missed anything.

[weckar]

Alright y'all, thanks for confirming all that and proving once again that I'm not crazy :)

[Thurbane]

UA was released a bit before RoD, so the redundancy wasn't there to begin with.