Easiest/Cheapest ways to get a Tumbler's Breastplate to 0ACP?

[Gavinfoxx]

Hi there, I was wondering how to get this exotic armor down to 0ACP for my small character, as the DM doesn't allow masterwork shoes of Tumble or whatever unless it's statted out specifically. Any suggestions?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Assuming that the Tumbler's Breastplate is the one that I found with a quick Google search with 20% ACP, a +1 Twilight mithral (Tumbler's Breastplate) would have 0 ACP. That's ASF, not ACP.

Mithral reduces the ACP by 3, and the Nimbleness (+1 bonus) enchantment reduces it by 2 more, meaning a set of +1 mithral Nimbleness tumber's breastplate is 0 ACP.

Alternatively, a set of masterwork darkleaf tumbler's breastplate would only reduce it to 1 ACP, but is far, far cheaper.

[Gavinfoxx]

Aren't Darkleaf, Duskwood, and Glassteel just variant mithrals? And aren't there a few others? What about the Hellforged template?

Would it count as Light Armor, despite being exotic? I need 0acp due to non-proficiency.

[Telonius]

If it's not Mithral, it would still count as medium armor, meaning your speed would be affected (unless the specific material you're talking about has the same encumbrance exception as mithral). Unless you're a Dwarf, that means that you can't tumble at all:


You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.

Dwarves get a specific exception to the speed-reduction rule:


Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).

(Considering it's in Races of Stone, the base item is typically intended as Dwarf-specific).

But if it is Mithral, any race could use it and still be able to make tumble checks:


Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.

If you happen to be a dwarf, you wouldn't need it to be mithral to tumble at all, but it's still useful to have since it decreases the ACP.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Aren't Darkleaf, Duskwood, and Glassteel just variant mithrals? And aren't there a few others? What about the Hellforged template?

Would it count as Light Armor, despite being exotic? I need 0acp due to non-proficiency.

On the Exotic Armor table in Races of Stone, a Tumbler's Breastplate is counted as Medium Armor, so making them out of one of the category-lightening materials would make it count as Light.

Though to be honest, you'd probably be better off grabbing a set of MW studded leather and spending that feat on something more useful than Exotic Armor Proficiency (unless you're getting it as a bonus feat, or something). It's only 2 points of AC.

[ShurikVch]

If it's not Mithral, it would still count as medium armor, meaning your speed would be affected (unless the specific material you're talking about has the same encumbrance exception as mithral). Unless you're a Dwarf, that means that you can't tumble at all:

You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.
Note: movement also isn't restricted for Breastplates made of Darkleaf, Duskwood, Glassteel, Blue Ice, or Dragoncraft Breastplate.



Aren't Darkleaf, Duskwood, and Glassteel just variant mithrals?
That depends on what you mean by the "variant mithrals".
Firstly, only Mithral and Glassteel reduce ACP by 3; other materials - only by 2 (or even just 1)
Secondly, Breastplate made of Mithral costs +4000 gp, while from Glassteel - +6000 gp (and from Darkleaf - +2250)
Weight, ASF, armored speed, and max Dex bonus may vary too...


And aren't there a few others?
Blue Ice (Frostburn)
Darkwood (Zalantar) - shields only
Dragoncraft Armor/Shield (Draconomicon)
Entropium (Arms and Equipment Guide): reduces ACP by 2 for Dex-based checks, but increases by 2 for Str-based checks
Leafweave, Elven (Arms and Equipment Guide) - not for "metallic" armor
Living Metal (Magic of Faerûn)
Shadowsilk (Tome of Magic) - only for armor made from cloth or leather
Wildwood (Races of the Wild)


What about the Hellforged template?
IIRR, it increases ACP - not reducing


Would it count as Light Armor, despite being exotic? I need 0acp due to non-proficiency.
"Exotic Armor" isn't a separate category of Armor: there are Exotic Light Armor, Exotic Medium Armor, and Exotic Heavy Armor
Thus, Light Exotic Armor is still Light Armor

In addition to all aforementioned, there is also Ceremonial armor quality (Dungeon #105): it reduces ACP by 2 (up to 0) and don't impedes speed; it costs twice as much as "regular" masterwork armor (although not necessary a masterwork by itself), and reduces armor's AC bonus by half (rounded down)

[Zanos]

Hellforged does reduce the penalty, but not less than -1(negatives are weird, you know what i mean). If your DM lets you stack in beneficial order, mithral hellforged tumbler's breastplate could be 0 ACP.

Hellforged does drop the max dex by 1, so you'd be at 5 total.

[Telonius]

On the Exotic Armor table in Races of Stone, a Tumbler's Breastplate is counted as Medium Armor, so making them out of one of the category-lightening materials would make it count as Light.

Though to be honest, you'd probably be better off grabbing a set of MW studded leather and spending that feat on something more useful than Exotic Armor Proficiency (unless you're getting it as a bonus feat, or something). It's only 2 points of AC.

If you can get the ACP to zero, nonproficiency is meaningless:


A character who is wearing armor with which she is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.

So you wouldn't need the feat.

[Gavinfoxx]

On the Exotic Armor table in Races of Stone, a Tumbler's Breastplate is counted as Medium Armor, so making them out of one of the category-lightening materials would make it count as Light.

Though to be honest, you'd probably be better off grabbing a set of MW studded leather and spending that feat on something more useful than Exotic Armor Proficiency (unless you're getting it as a bonus feat, or something). It's only 2 points of AC.

But I'm not buying proficiency in it. Hence needing it to be 0acp, unless I misunderstand something??

Also isnt there a bronze looking Mithral in Eberron?

[Thurbane]

Acrobat Boots (MIC p. 67) give a +2 competence bonus to Tumble checks. It also has daily charges to increase your base move speed. 900gp.

Skin of Nimbleness (MIC p. 171) gives +10 competence on Tumble checks. 15,000 gp.

Belt of Lions (MoF p.154) gives +10 circumstance to Tumble (and Move Silently), as well as low light vision, and +4 competence to Cha and Cha based skill checks with felines, and continual Speak With Animals (felines only). 50,000 gp.

...there may be others I've missed.

[Gavinfoxx]

On the Exotic Armor table in Races of Stone, a Tumbler's Breastplate is counted as Medium Armor, so making them out of one of the category-lightening materials would make it count as Light.

Though to be honest, you'd probably be better off grabbing a set of MW studded leather and spending that feat on something more useful than Exotic Armor Proficiency (unless you're getting it as a bonus feat, or something). It's only 2 points of AC.

There's a reason I asked for the cheapest option, this is a low level character!

[Thurbane]

There's a reason I asked for the cheapest option, this is a low level character!

Do you already have magical boots? If not, see above - 900gp gives you the same +2 Competence bonus to Tumble as the breastplate.

Oops, just read the armor gives circ bonus, not competence. :smallredface:

[Anthrowhale]

Have you considered a mithril chain shirt and masterwork dastana instead?

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you considered a mithril chain shirt and masterwork dastana instead?

That doesn't provide a Tumble bonus!

Also, can you actually make a Tumbler's Breastplate out of Darkleaf, or just a normal one?

[Thurbane]

So just did a bit of a deep dive and wow, circumstance bonuses to Tumble are rare. The armor is the only specific one I could find.

If your DM doesn't allow custom masterwork tools, which you said he doesn't, that might be your only source.

I have to ask though, is this +2 bonus worth investing so much of your build/resources into?

[Gavinfoxx]

So just did a bit of a deep dive and wow, circumstance bonuses to Tumble are rare. The armor is the only specific one I could find.

If your DM doesn't allow custom masterwork tools, which you said he doesn't, that might be your only source.

I have to ask though, is this +2 bonus worth investing so much of your build/resources into?

I was already planning on making the armor a breastplate anyway, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to remove that last bit of acp in general!

[Maat Mons]

Does your DM allow War of the Lance as a sourcebook? It's published by Sovereign Press, but it has the" Official Wizards of the Coast Licensed Product" seal that you see on Dragon magazine. The book introduces some ultra-double-super-masterwork qualities.

[Darg]

A Tooth of Dahlver-Nar (Savnok) CL 5th 2,000 gp gets rid of the medium/heavy armor speed reduction. This means you can tumble in full plate if you wanted.

The 5 level PRC Dread Commando from Heroes of Battle lets you reduce ACP by up to -4 (-2 at level 2, -4 at level 4), up to 3d6 sudden strike, a team wide initiative bonus that equals class level, and reduces movement penalties to hide and move silently by 10.

[Seerow]

Does your DM allow War of the Lance as a sourcebook? It's published by Sovereign Press, but it has the" Official Wizards of the Coast Licensed Product" seal that you see on Dragon magazine. The book introduces some ultra-double-super-masterwork qualities.

It does... but then makes them only craftable by a very high level character of a specific very bad class. Like to get the "legendary" armor, you need to find like a craftsman with like 15 levels invested.

[Maat Mons]

Depends on your DM, I suppose. But there are lots of things in the rulebooks which are only craftable by high-level characters of rare classes. I think casters make up something like 3% of the population, going from DMG demographics. A bottle of Universal Solvent, valued at 50 gp, requires knowledge of the spell Disintegrate to craft. That would typically mean at least an 11th-level character was necessary to craft it. Though it's listed with a default caster level of 20, which suggests there are 20th-level Wizards happy to spend an entire day crafting one item and then sell it for a 25-gp profit.

[ATHATH]

Though it's listed with a default caster level of 20, which suggests there are 20th-level Wizards happy to spend an entire day crafting one item and then sell it for a 25-gp profit.
It's like knitting, I imagine.

[Darg]

It's like knitting, I imagine.

Just like how NPCs aren't limited by XP, they aren't limited by the minimum crafting time limit. I personally think the minimum is petty. I see nothing wrong with mass producing low level potions or scrolls, or solvent in this case.