Fighting skeletons

[Carlobrand]

You see skeletons approaching you, dressed in tattered rags of cloth, one hand holding old and battered short swords. One closes to fight you at melee range, and ...

"...I grapple it and throw it at the next skeleton."

Okaaaay, sure, why not? Devoid of flesh, a skeleton weighs maybe 20-25 pounds. It will probably have an opinion about being grappled, it's got a good dex and could dodge the attempt, but then the thing is basically an animated bunch of handles waiting to be grabbed. If you've got decent strength and athletics, it's really not that much harder than hitting it with a weapon, and you could argue for doing damage to both skeletons if you manage a successful improvised weapon throw. I guess I could argue that the dark energies that animate it also keep it fixed to the ground as if it had normal weight, but that's not half as much fun as seeing a skeleton sail gracefully through the air like a chair in a bar fight.

[Zhorn]

Echoing a recent discussion with my players post-game this week.
Table-ruling that such a thing will (initially) take 2 attacks to do.

First attack is spent on getting the initial grapple

Subsequent attacks are spent trying to wrangle the grappled creature for improvised weapon attacks. Contested athletics and if you win you've forced them into a position where for that attack and the remainder that turn (not 'round') you are swinging them as an improvised weapon for 1d4+STR to both the grappled creature and the target of the attack.

The barbarian wanted to do the hulk-flailing-loki thing, so this is what was settled on for the fun of it.
For a single target her greataxe is the better choice, but for slamming enemies together this seemed like a fun allowance.

[OvisCaedo]

I wouldn't strictly say no, but a 20ish pound skeleton fighting back is quite an unwieldly thing to throw with enough velocity to be damaging to it OR a target. Thrown weapons are mostly 2-3 pounds in 5e (the trident weighs four!). But it's also just really hard to tell how physically strong people are really "supposed" to be in DnD in general! People certainly argue about it a lot.

But even if you allow it, it's not really overwhelmingly strong to do, so if it fits tone, why not? Grappling is an attack, throwing is an attack, so you're spending two attacks to move one enemy a bit and damage two of them once. Not terribly different of an outcome than just attacking twice most of the time, unless you're letting them really send stuff flying across the room. Super light throwing weapons mostly stop at 60 foot maximum range, with disadvantage past twenty, so I'd not expect a 20 pound improvisation to go terribly far. (Though the dedicated throwing weapon, the javelin, goes a more impressive 30/120)

though depending on what tone your group wants for the game, you might find yourself wanting to change a lot of the game's baseline assumptions of martials and their raw strength... Who knows? (then again, a 20 strength character can lift and slowly stagger around with 600 pounds of weight, that doesn't seem too shabby... not quite world record deadlifters, but I'm not sure that they can even walk while picking up their 900+ pounds)

[Carlobrand]

Echoing a recent discussion with my players post-game this week.
Table-ruling that such a thing will (initially) take 2 attacks to do.

First attack is spent on getting the initial grapple

Subsequent attacks are spent trying to wrangle the grappled creature for improvised weapon attacks. Contested athletics and if you win you've forced them into a position where for that attack and the remainder that turn (not 'round') you are swinging them as an improvised weapon for 1d4+STR to both the grappled creature and the target of the attack.

The barbarian wanted to do the hulk-flailing-loki thing, so this is what was settled on for the fun of it.
For a single target her greataxe is the better choice, but for slamming enemies together this seemed like a fun allowance.

Funny you mention the barbarian. If they're frenzied, they could take an action to grapple the skeleton and then take their bonus action to use it as a melee weapon, assuming another skeleton was in melee range. But, yeah, grab and pitch would be a two turn activity.

[Greywander]

Generally, for impact damage, I'd treat it like fall damage. If someone has forced movement, and they run into something before the end of that forced movement, you could apply the remaining forced movement as fall damage (so throwing something back close to a wall hurts more than throwing them far from the wall). In the case of that obstacle being another creature, you would then split the damage between them.

Not sure that works in this case, though, as I'm not sure what kind of throw distance you can get. I might just treat it like an improvised weapon attack that either splits the damage between the two skeletons, or deals full damage to both. And if you miss, you still deal full damage to the one you threw (maybe; would this work against any other enemy, or against a PC?). Instead of damage, you could also just have them both make Acrobatics checks to not get knocked prone, maybe with the thrown skeleton having disadvantage.

[Burley]

I'd suggest not using fall damage, as it scales on distance (to mimic velocity). If you want to deal damage by throwing something against a wall, I'd use the Catapult spell's damage: 2d8 to the object and whatever it hits. It's a bit more than damage, but not much, and it will keep players from trying to throw enemies farther for more damage (which isn't, necessarily, inertia works).
This is a simple way to give the barbarian a new tactic in combat, if they want to spend their main and bonus attacks to move an enemy ~15 feet and deal far less damage than they'd normally do.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Who is proficient in skeleton? Is it a martial weapon? Asking for a friend.

Yeah, it would seem reasonable to do with two attacks to do. Improvised weapon, bludgeoning damage, strength mod means double damage, and I'd impose a knockdown save on the target.


There's only one way to properly fight skeletons. They need to get top hats and canes and engage them in an epic tap dance battle.
Yeeessss!!!! With a band of musicians playing of "Putting on the Ritz."

[Sigreid]

There's only one way to properly fight skeletons. They need to get top hats and canes and engage them in an epic tap dance battle.

[loki_ragnarock]

Who is proficient in skeleton? Is it a martial weapon? Asking for a friend.


The Weapon Master feat finally finds its niche.

[Greywander]

The Weapon Master feat finally finds its niche.
You know, something crazy just occurred to me. Of course, a skeleton would be an improvised weapon, so you'd need Tavern Brawler, rather than Weapon Master. Tavern Brawler allows you to use basically anything as a weapon, with the downside that your damage die is lower than most actual weapons. Most.

You could have, say, a wizard, who isn't proficient with clubs, but has Tavern Brawler (not sure why you'd get that on a wizard, but whatever). It would actually be better for them to pick up a "club-like object" and use it as an improvised weapon than it would to use an actual club. And what would stop someone from wielding a weapon "in an improvised manner", turning basically every weapon into an improvised weapon? Yeah, you'd use the 1d4 damage instead of whatever damage die it had, but you'd get to add your proficiency to the attack roll, which is much more important than a couple extra points of damage.

You could use this to make a very eclectic "weapon master" character, who carries weapons (and non-weapons) they don't know how to wield properly, but can wield them in an improvised manner. Not sure what class you'd do this with that doesn't already get martial weapon proficiency, though.

[Pex]

I'd say one attack to grapple it then one attack to throw it (roll to hit) so need Extra Attack to do it in one turn. The one you throw is autoprone. Contest between your attack roll to hit and the other skeleton's Athletics or Acrobatics. If you win other skeleton also prone. It slows them down since they need 1/2 their speed to get up. No damage. Brownie points for doing it on a bridge or ledge to make them fall off.