[3.5] Beguiler - Expanded Spell List

[Thurbane]

So, hypothetical, possibly for a character I might play one day: how much can you expand a Beguiler's spell list, and still get 9th level spells?

Assume the entire build is focused around expanding the spell list: feats, PrCs etc. Don't need to worry about other optimization that much.

More interested in feat and PrC options than gear, but you can suggest gear if you like.

Note: My group enforces lost caster levels as per the table for Rainbow Servant, so that's not an option.

Also note: I don't want the build to lose any more than 2 caster levels. I don't want to have to rely on Versatile Spellcaster or similar to get 9ths.

Sources (usual for my table): Official 3.5 and un-updated 3.0 only. No Kalamar, Ravenloft, or Dragonlance (aside from campaign setting book). No PF. For this one, no Dragon Mag or Dungeon Mag, aside from Dragon compendium. No incarnum, no psionics, no Artificers, no Truenamers, no Shadowcasters.

Assume race will be Human or Grey Elf (no Killer Gnome please), and ability scores will be randomly generated rather than point buy. Standard WBL, but again, I'd rather not focus too much on gear.

Sand Shaper dip seems obvious. A bloodline feat (From Dragon Compendium) adds 9 spells, so that's great value.

Cheers - T

[FauxKnee]

It's a shame your group doesn't follow the primary source rule for rainbow servant, but it is a pretty strong class.

Some other easy ways to expand your spell list include knowstones, drakehelms, recaster (normally restricted to changelings), and wyrm wizard. The veils set from the MIC and runestaves are also pretty potent options, especially if you can swing the latter as a custom ancestral relic (which would allow you to swap out the spells in sanctified areas, since ancestral relic is strictly based on cost and ignores prerequisites like "access to the spell".)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Node Spellcasting (Und) lets you access a few additional spells while within it's borders (exceptionally unhelpful, but they're always going to be spells that aren't on your list).

Improved Oneiromancy (HoH) lets you add a few dream-related spells to your spell list.

Corrupt Arcana (HoH) lets you prepare corrupt spells (yes, it's meant specifically for spontaneous casters: in fact, the feat requires spontaneous spellcasting to take it).

Arcane Preparation (CAr) hits the other end of the alignment scale for Exalted spells.

There's also the old standby of Mother Cyst (LM) to add some spicy gross spells to your repetoire.

[Anthrowhale]

Take Channel Charge to access any L8- spell using a spell trigger item and a slot one level higher.

A friendly sorcerer with Dragonblood Spell-Pact can swap for preferred spells.

[Rebel7284]

Shadowcraft Mage has a recommended adaptation that allows any race to enter it as long as you are part of an illusionist cabal. Considering how good of a fit Shadowcraft Mage is on a beguiler built, I would recommend using that adaptation, even if you have to go through the trouble of starting a cabal yourself!

Two levels of Chameleon allows you to select a new list-expanding feat each day, which is especially nifty if you have a deity or ideal that offers all domains.

Unearthed Arcana prestige Bard/Paladin/Ranger expand spell lists "in general", whatever that means.

In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis.
Prestige Bard is real easy to enter, the other two require serious shenanigans.

Fiend-blooded adds up to 4 extra spells known and some stat boosts.

[Darg]

Arcane Disciple feat

PRCs that grant domains.

Normal domain access as a spontaneous caster let's you cast the spells as many times as you want. Arcane disciple limits you to one spell per level per day per domain gained from feat.

[noce]

Exalted Arcanist is really good for what you need. I really like the PrC, don't get why it's so overlooked in this forum.
At the cost of two feats and a caster level, it adds all sanctified spells to your list, plus another 23 (and other unrelated goodies).

[Thurbane]

Hmm, so it seems like Sandshaper and EA dips might be the way to go. :smallsmile:

[Beni-Kujaku]

Hmm, so it seems like Sandshaper and EA dips might be the way to go. :smallsmile:

Well, sandshaper dip, and the full 5 levels in Exalted Arcanist. You get almost nothing with a dip.

[pabelfly]

Just finished writing this thread. You might find it of some use:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637076-Ways-to-Expand-a-Spell-List

[liquidformat]

Taking the Arcane Preparation feat and jumping into Mage of the Arcane Order is a pretty classic choice to get access to the full wizard/sorc spell list. While as Fauxknee said Wyrm Wizard does give you more spells you also loose 3 levels of casting so not as great a choice. 2 levels of Prestige Bard only looses 1 caster level but nets you all bard spells and fits pretty well with Beguiler.

[Thurbane]

Probably should have mentioned in the OP: prestigious classes from UA are not in play either, at our table.


Well, sandshaper dip, and the full 5 levels in Exalted Arcanist. You get almost nothing with a dip.

Yep, that's what I meant, worded it awkwardly. :smalltongue:


Just finished writing this thread. You might find it of some use:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637076-Ways-to-Expand-a-Spell-List

Nice, I've added that to my extended sig. :smallsmile:

[pabelfly]

Nice, I'll be added that to my extended sig. :smallsmile:

Oh that awesome, I'm quite flattered.

[Soranar]

Robes of mysterious conjuration are a must on a beguiler and if you can swing a custom staff (best way is to take the feat that gives you a magic item that you can customize, I forget the name) you're set to go.

As for feats and classes, most cost too much for my taste but fiendblooded can give you a blasting spell and access to animate dead though that's best used through a staff since it's a downtime spell but some DMs don't allow them.

[pabelfly]

Feat List
1: Arcane Disciple - gain nine domain spells based off your domain of choice and add them to your Beguiler spell list.
3: Bloodline Feat - nine more spells
6: Touchstone - Sand Shaper prereq
9: Extra Spell: Summon Swarm. Helps us enter Arachnomancer
12: Extra Spell: Web. Helps us enter Arachnomancer.
15: Arcane Disciple - nine more domain spells to your spell list
18: Arcane Disciple - nine more domain spells to your spell list

Dips
1 Sand Shaper - a bunch of extra spells for one level and losing one spellcasting level
1 Arachnomancer - fifteen spider-themed spells up to 9ths without losing a spellcaster level

You lose only one spellcaster level and there's a lot of spells you gain from that (no point counting since you'll certainly double up on the spells you get given)

[FauxKnee]

Pabelfly's structure is solid. I'd like to add to it with a couple remarks...

Summon Swarm is on the domain list for the Spider and Pestilence domains, so you could use Arcane Disciple instead of Extra Spell to acquire that (and pick up eight other spells at the same time.) As you might expect, Arachnomancer has some overlap with the Spider domain, so strictly in terms of "most spells learned" you'd probably want to take Pestilence.

Arcane Disciple restricts your domain choices to your choice of deity. Faiths of Eberron explains that you can worship a given pantheon instead of a single deity, which makes the domains of all of the component deities available. (By RAW you probably can't do this for Arcane Disciple, but if you play in a RAI game you may be able to.) The Sovereign Host is good-aligned and has a larger range of domains, while the Dark Six offer a smaller variety (but Pestilence is among them.) If you have a homebrew pantheon in your game, that may be available as well. Overall, you may still want to take Extra Spell for Summon Swarm to maintain better choices for Arcane Disciple, but at least you've got options.

[Thurbane]

Extra Spell is ruled at my table not to be able to add off-list spells, unfortunately.

We have dabbled with the house-rule that for Beguilers, Warmages and Dread Necros, it acts as an extra source of Advanced Learning - but that varies by DM.

[pabelfly]

Okay, rework to get around Extra Spell houserule:

Deity: pick any with at least five domains, but more choices is always better, unless you have a specific character concept you want to develop. I'd suggest going with a pantheon like the Sovereign Host (if you want to be Good) or the Dark Six (if you want to be Evil), both from Eberron since both have quite a lot of domains on offer.

Feat List
1: Mother Cyst - 10 unique spells up to 9th that you can't get any other way besides this feat.
3: Bloodline Feat - nine spells which doesn't care about your choice of deity
6: Touchstone - Sand Shaper prerequisite.
9: Arcane Disciple
12: Arcane Disciple
15: Arcane Disciple
18: Arcane Disciple
B: Arcane Disciple

Dips:
Sand Shaper 1 - a bunch of extra spells for one level and losing one spellcaster level
Human Paragon 3 - lose one spellcaster level, but get a +2 to any stat, a new class skill, and a bonus feat (Arcane Disciple)

We lose two spellcaster levels but still get a large amount of choices for our spell list, and ninth-level spells at level 20.

[RandomPeasant]

That seems much worse than just pursuing a career as "something that grants Prestige Domains" and hauling around a(n Eternal) Wand of substitute domain. In particular, I strongly recommend against Sand Shaper for a Beguiler. You don't need quantity of added spells, you need quality, and losing caster levels when you're already a half-level behind is a bad plan.

[Thurbane]

Thanks for everyone who contributed something useful, and not just "this is a bad idea" :smallwink:

[pabelfly]

One more thing I found while writing the Expanded Spell List thread up was "Planar Domains". Clerics can pick one of these in place of two regular domains, according to their alignment, and a Planar Domain has eighteen spells instead of the usual 9. How that interacts with the "Arcane Disciple" feat, I have no idea, but (depending on DM ruling) could be a good way to gain twice the spells than a normal use of the "Arcane Disciple" feat would give.