Why isn't there a Slow metamagic?

[Garresh]

Quicken increases a spells cast time to a bonus action. Why isn't there a metamagic to turn a bonus action spell into a standard action?

[ProsecutorGodot]

I can't think of a use case for one that isn't incredibly situational, all it would let you do is save your bonus action for something that isn't a spell, it's pretty limited.

[Jerrykhor]

The only use i can think of is a Cleric/Sorc multiclass or Divine Soul can cast Healing Word and make an attack with the Spiritual Weapon if its already out.

[DwarfFighter]

Perhaps more reasonable is a "Delay" that allows you to cast a spell on round 1 and release it as a bonus action on round 2.

-DF

[Garresh]

Tbh I can think of tons of cases. Every class has class features that use a bonus action. Being able to downgrade your spell for a single sorcery point is an edge case, but an extremely common one. What if you need to move some sorcery points around but wanna cast something like expeditious retreat or misty step? Well you're screwed lol. Divine soul will get a bunch of bonus action spells(such as healing word). Really, there's a lot of situations where it would be kinda cool to have.

[Ashe]

Likely because half of the existing metamagics are already too niche to ever get picked. You're not going to pick this over any of the usual suspects let alone all of the other niche ones that are likely more useful. If Sorc just got all metamagics like they probably deserve then sure, why not.

[OvisCaedo]

I think this is both a very niche metamagic, and... something that shouldn't be one anyhow. Performing an action "slower" should, if anything, just be something allowed near-universally by the game system in general if the need to do so arises. It isn't, of course, but... it probably should be!

[Mastikator]

It would let a divine soul sorcerer with healing word ready action cast healing word if a team mate reached zero hit points. Which would be mega-op for a 1st level spell slot.

It would let any sorcerer with misty step ready action misty step away from melee if approached in melee.

It's too good in situations where you'd want to do it, and too niche. IMO I don't think this should exist.

[quindraco]

It would let a divine soul sorcerer with healing word ready action cast healing word if a team mate reached zero hit points. Which would be mega-op for a 1st level spell slot.

You know Cure Light Wounds exists, right? And you know all Readied spells consume their slot even if they never trigger, right?

[OvisCaedo]

You know Cure Light Wounds exists, right? And you know all Readied spells consume their slot even if they never trigger, right?

Healing word has a 60 foot range, so it's not *quite* comparable. Cure wounds with distant spell could be 30, though.

but I also just cannot see this example as being overpowered when it's what the sorcerer is doing instead of anything else. Readied spells eat concentration, too! It could be a valid option sometimes, but it's far from some amazing always-on thing that breaks the game.

wanting to "ready misty step in case you get approached" is also a pretty niche thing to ever make sense, since again, you're... not doing anything else instead. Burning your action, a spell slot, and concentration to run away if someone approaches you doing nothing is pretty silly; you could have just dashed away to begin with, or readied a dash away if an enemy gets close (also questionable, but maybe if you're concentrating on something it could make sense??)

There's absolutely new action combinations that can come up from allowing bonus actions to be "downgraded" into regular actions, but would any of them really be much of a problem? Is it gamebreaking if a cleric casts healing word and has their spiritual weapon swing? There's a lot of spells, though, so maybe there could be something actually troubling that just doesn't spring to mind for me.

[Mastikator]

You wouldn't be "doing nothing", you'd be swinging your spiritual weapon. A 1st level spell slot to all but guarantee that your team mates don't die when multiattacked by the big bad is very powerful, I think it's the main reason you can only read actions and not bonus actions.

Like I said, in the instances where it's useful it's too useful. In all other instances it's worthless, so you're either taking this overpowered but narrow niche or it is never used at all. That are bad game design, meta magic should be generally useful and transformative, not either breaking or useless.

[Ralanr]

Arguably, extended spell is this or can be flavored as this.

[PhantomSoul]

It would let any sorcerer with misty step ready action misty step away from melee if approached in melee.

Even if the DM waives the spellcasting + readying interaction (you cast a spell when you ready, so you've cast as a bonus action and cast as an action), it still costs the sorcery points and the spell slot and concentration... probably not too strong. (Slightly clunky though... and hope an arrow doesn't break your concentration! :) )

[Segev]

The best use-case I can think of for this would be when you wanted to cast two spells who both have a bonus action casting time in the same round. Though the number of bonus-action cast-time cantrips is pretty low, and since you still can't cast a leveled spell as a bonus action and an action in the same round....

[Hytheter]

It would let a divine soul sorcerer with healing word ready action cast healing word if a team mate reached zero hit points. Which would be mega-op for a 1st level spell slot.

Unless none of your teammates actually hit zero hit points before your next turn, in which case you've wasted a spell slot, a sorcery point, an action and your concentration for no reason.


It would let any sorcerer with misty step ready action misty step away from melee if approached in melee.

As above, but now it's a second level slot you're wasting if nobody actually approaches you.

[Garresh]

You wouldn't be "doing nothing", you'd be swinging your spiritual weapon. A 1st level spell slot to all but guarantee that your team mates don't die when multiattacked by the big bad is very powerful, I think it's the main reason you can only read actions and not bonus actions.

Like I said, in the instances where it's useful it's too useful. In all other instances it's worthless, so you're either taking this overpowered but narrow niche or it is never used at all. That are bad game design, meta magic should be generally useful and transformative, not either breaking or useless.

Where exactly is it too useful to the point of game breaking?

[Mastikator]

Where exactly is it too useful to the point of game breaking?

It's spending a level 1 spell slot to do the job of a level 3 spell's job (revivify), also skipping the 300 gp cost.

And unless you do that it's a totally wasted meta magic option since you'd almost never want to use it. It's a trap option. A lesson learned from 3.5e is that trap options are bad and take away from the game and should not exist.

[Arkhios]

Quicken increases a spells cast time to a bonus action. Why isn't there a metamagic to turn a bonus action spell into a standard action?

I can't think of any other response but "Why would anyone want that?"

[strangebloke]

Because it'd be a trap option 90% of the time and the 5e designers try not to create trap options.

[Chronos]

Quoth Mastikator:

It's spending a level 1 spell slot to do the job of a level 3 spell's job (revivify), also skipping the 300 gp cost.
No, it's spending a level 1 spell slot to do the job of a level 1 spell. Because you could get nearly the same effect just by casting the Healing Word on the next turn, instead of this turn.

The use case I've seen was a druid who had Healing Word prepared, but not Cure Wounds, and then an ally got downed while the druid was in wildshape. He wanted to drop back into humanoid form and then cast.

Which I dealt with by simply making a blanket rule that anything you can do with a bonus action, you can do with a regular action, too, no metamagic or other special feature needed. Because really, why wouldn't you be able to?

[Garresh]

Because it'd be a trap option 90% of the time and the 5e designers try not to create trap options.

I mean tbh half of the metamagic options are trap options.

[JNAProductions]

I mean tbh half of the metamagic options are trap options.

What do you define as a trap option?

Because a Sorcerer without ANY Metamagic (or who just never uses their Metamagic choices) is still a fine, playable, competent PC.

[Pex]

It is useful. There are very few bonus action cantrips, but they exist and the Sorcerer might pick one up for whatever reason or means. Perhaps a class feature or feat does something on a bonus action yet the Sorcerer still wants to cast a bonus action spell, even if the character is multiclass. Maybe the sorcerer has a magic item that does something on a bonus action.

The hypothetical metamagic would not be chosen at 3rd level. The character wouldn't have so many things competing for his bonus action, except for niche cases like a variant human who took Magic Initiate with Shillelagh or a Divine Soul who chose Spiritual Weapon. However, at 10th level that's plenty of time to have acquired multiple bonus action things by some means. If the player wants it then that's his business.

Still, I would agree it should have been part of the regular rules that anything that's a bonus action could be done as an action if the player wanted to because he wanted to do two bonus actions in a turn. If the bonus action required a trigger that would still apply. For example, a monk could never use Flurry of Blows as an action because he had to have attacked with an unarmed strike or monk weapon as an action. However, it's not unreasonable for an Ancients Paladin to be able to cast Misty Step to move over a chasm and activate an Animated Shield for his turn to get into an enemy's face so he can cast a Smite Spell next turn while wielding his greatsword.

[Garresh]

What do you define as a trap option?

Because a Sorcerer without ANY Metamagic (or who just never uses their Metamagic choices) is still a fine, playable, competent PC.

True, but that was in regard to what he said. There's clearly some nearly useless metamagics. Distant spell for one. Extended spell is a trap option except for VERY niche cases. Careful is great for controllers but is a trap for blasters which isn't apparent until you start getting stuff like fireball. So I guess only 2 trap options and one potential trap for new players who don't know the caveat to it.

[strangebloke]

I mean tbh half of the metamagic options are trap options.
Sure. But what I'm saying is the question should be "why does distant spell exist"

[Mastikator]

No, it's spending a level 1 spell slot to do the job of a level 1 spell. Because you could get nearly the same effect just by casting the Healing Word on the next turn, instead of this turn.

The use case I've seen was a druid who had Healing Word prepared, but not Cure Wounds, and then an ally got downed while the druid was in wildshape. He wanted to drop back into humanoid form and then cast.

Which I dealt with by simply making a blanket rule that anything you can do with a bonus action, you can do with a regular action, too, no metamagic or other special feature needed. Because really, why wouldn't you be able to?

Some monsters have multiattack, if the first strike reduces the targets hit points to zero the second will auto hit and auto-crit causing two failed death saves. A third is an instant death with no chance to healing word on the next turn. Unless you can ready action healing word which would then save the targets life and then on your next turn let you bring them back fully.
Multi attacking twice and thrice is common, 4 times or more is rare.

[JNAProductions]

Some monsters have multiattack, if the first strike reduces the targets hit points to zero the second will auto hit and auto-crit causing two failed death saves. A third is an instant death with no chance to healing word on the next turn. Unless you can ready action healing word which would then save the targets life and then on your next turn let you bring them back fully.
Multi attacking twice and thrice is common, 4 times or more is rare.

Nitpick-you don't automatically hit downed targets. You have advantage to hit them, generally, but not auto-hit.

[Pex]

Sure. But what I'm saying is the question should be "why does distant spell exist"

Distant Counterspell by itself has its uses. There are spells of 30 ft or 60 ft range that would be useful at a longer distance. Distance can matter depending on the battlefield. Even Distant Shocking Grasp has a use if you need to get by someone you are not already next to or even to let another party member walk away from a bad guy easily. It is more tactical than the glory found in Quicken and Twin, but it's not useless.

[stoutstien]

Sure. But what I'm saying is the question should be "why does distant spell exist"
I actually like distant spell as long as DMs aren't being overly stupid about which touch spells it works with.

[stoutstien]

Distant Counterspell by itself has its uses. There are spells of 30 ft or 60 ft range that would be useful at a longer distance. Distance can matter depending on the battlefield. Even Distant Shocking Grasp has a use if you need to get by someone you are not already next to or even to let another party member walk away from a bad guy easily. It is more tactical than the glory found in Quicken and Twin, but it's not useless.

Unfortunately CS has a "baked in" range in the spell description so you can't double CSs range. Bad editing from the get go.

[OvisCaedo]

Plus you can ready a distant cure wounds for if someone goes down!

[strangebloke]

Unfortunately CS has a "baked in" range in the spell description so you can't double CSs range. Bad editing from the get go.

Distant spell has its uses but stuff like this is why its a trap option most of the time. "Trap" here meaning "an option you can pick that is worthless for you."

[stoutstien]

Distant spell has its uses but stuff like this is why its a trap option most of the time. "Trap" here meaning "an option you can pick that is worthless for you."

Eh. Distant CS would be nice but we already have subtle for it. Distant telekinesis is fun though as long as your DM rules the whole duration applies. Plane shift, shocking grasp, erupting earth, and having range beyond CS for all the spells with M components means distant is niche more than a trap.
I do agree wording is bad so it can be a let down for some but that's spell casting in a nutshell.

[Amdy_vill]

Quicken increases a spells cast time to a bonus action. Why isn't there a metamagic to turn a bonus action spell into a standard action?

I think the reason is everything you could do with slow metamagic would be covered by a non-metamagic casting on your turn. the only thing it would allow is a magic stone or Shillelagh to be cast with bonus action level spells. Misty step behind someone and cast Shillelagh is an interesting idea.

IF a large amount of bonus action cantrips get added it would be useful.