Has 3 strength for 5 days, what can't he do?

[Aaedimus]

Cast wish, now spending 5 days gimped in a high level dungeon

I ruled that 3 strength would leave a character unable to walk, so the barbarian he wished back to life is carrying him for now.

Is this reasonable, and what other effects do you think would be thematic?
we know carrying capacity is dropped to 45lb... doesn't seem like enough to me

[Mastikator]

Consider that an explorer's pack is 59lbs and 3 strength nets you 45lbs capacity, yeah he can't even carry the amenities needed to keep himself alive. I don't think you need more effects, as soon as the barbarian drops him he won't be able to move or stand up from a prone position unless he drops everything besides his clothes, spell book and arcane focus. I think that's plenty.

Though since it is caused as a backlash of wish you could also block certain spells, resurrection is necromancy so maybe all necromancy?

[Aaedimus]

restricting spells seems like a lot lol
was mostly looking for thematic role-play type items to keep in mind lol

[OvisCaedo]

He had to wish someone back to life? I wonder how bad the circumstances were that using it to safely replicate resurrection wasn't enough. Did the poor guy get disintegrated or something? Rough way to go, but definitely something within expectations for a high level dungeon.

Anyhow. Nothing suggests that a 3 strength person should be unable to walk, even if their carrying capacity becomes horrible. In fact, the mechanics of the recovery say that any day where you don't do anything more than "light activity" takes two days off of the recovery time, which seems like a strong indication that doing *more* than just light activity is supposed to be possible. Every leveled spell cast during that time period nukes you with irreducible damage, and there's already the gamble having been made of never being able to wish again. I wouldn't feel inclined to ramp up the strength loss into near-paralysis, myself.

[Aaedimus]

He had to wish someone back to life? I wonder how bad the circumstances were that using it to safely replicate resurrection wasn't enough. Did the poor guy get disintegrated or something? Rough way to go, but definitely something within expectations for a high level dungeon.

Anyhow. Nothing suggests that a 3 strength person should be unable to walk, even if their carrying capacity becomes horrible. In fact, the mechanics of the recovery say that any day where you don't do anything more than "light activity" takes two days off of the recovery time, which seems like a strong indication that doing *more* than just light activity is supposed to be possible. Every leveled spell cast during that time period nukes you with irreducible damage, and there's already the gamble having been made of never being able to wish again. I wouldn't feel inclined to ramp up the strength loss into near-paralysis, myself.

When the character who died dies, his soul becomes trapped inside of an intelligent hammer he's bonded to, and he can only be brought out of it by a Wish spell. Actually, my Wizard is now the Black Staff, so the same applies to him. Actually, if I didn't have the Blackstaff's Master of Enchantment allow me to keep casting Power Word Stun it would have been a TPK.

The barbarian literally died after fighting 1 on 1 with a demon, mostly inside of an antimagic field. He's got maxed con, with the tough feat, lvl 6 Aid, 22 temp hitpoints from Inspiring leader, and all the damage was of types he was resistant to and he still went down after taking a Heal spell. Was a rough fight.

[Aaedimus]

One weird thing I noticed: I'm surprised there's not something in the spell saying that you can't get the strength back with greater restoration or something similar...

I'm almost tempted to say that the strength reduction will carry over if I shapechange just because: Hey, it's WISH

[DwarfFighter]

I ruled that 3 strength would leave a character unable to walk, (...)
Is this reasonable, and what other effects do you think would be thematic?
we know carrying capacity is dropped to 45lb... doesn't seem like enough to me

This is a b6t ruling.

A character at Str 3 is just like any other character, except his Str is 3.

He still has his same speed, durability and agility. He can still stab with daggers and shoot with bows with the same effect as before.

{scrubbed}

-DF

[Zhorn]

While I wouldn't phrase it the same as DwarfFighter has, the general sentiment I agree with.
The cost of Wish is already there in the books and is sufficient as is. Going out of your way to add extra penalties isn't really needed here.

[JackPhoenix]

You can have a character that has Str 3 his entire life if you roll stats, and the character works perfectly fine (within the limitation that Str 3 provides). It's no different from the Wish.

[BerzerkerUnit]

By RAW he just takes a -4 penalty to every check. That said, 3 Str as I recall was supposed to be the average human infant’s strength though I might up that to toddler. So I don’t think a half speed would be out of the question. And obviously everything beyond his clothes is likely to encumber him.

[Aaedimus]

This is a b6t ruling.

A character at Str 3 is just like any other character, except his Str is 3.

He still has his same speed, durability and agility. He can still stab with daggers and shoot with bows with the same effect as before.

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

-DF

Um, I'm not the DM in this game I'm the player? {scrubbed}

[da newt]

You have the same ST as a cat.

I'd probably choose to move like an old man - slowly with lots of grunting and extraneous noises, leaning on my staff as a walking stick. Stamina and balance may be reduced, but you'd still be capable of moving yourself around at a walking pace. Maybe every stair step gets stepped on by both feet and you get a piggy back ride on marches, but you can still function. 3 ST does not equal bed ridden to me.

[Cheesegear]

You have the same ST as a cat.

Which is incongruous with the rules, since a cat can jump about six times its on height on average, and about a third of that, on top, if it's particularly active.
A cat with Str -4 should barely be able to get off the ground...But they can!

But yes, I'll just echo what other posters have said:
- Str 3 doesn't actually do anything, mechanically.

- Your max carry weight is 45lb. That's not a lot. But it's also not nothing. That being said, I know a number of people IRL who couldn't carry 45 lb (20kg). for any length of time, if they had to. There's entire workplace health and safety regulations for lifting 10, 15 and 20kgs. Many people in the real world, right now, are Str 3, if not less, and they're fine.

- I think the only thing that Str 3 would ever actually impact, narratively, is the character's ability to pull or lift their own body weight. Compare the character's carrying capacity, with the character's weight (plus gear), and I think you'll find that that character would no longer be able to climb anything, or pull themselves up from anything. Though I can't imagine how often that will come up at your table, especially for a character who can cast spells. With the right spells you wont even care about Str 3.

- The character's CON hasn't changed, right? That means your cardio is fine. You should be able to walk, even run, for more than enough time. Your character is basically someone in the real world who has done so much cardio that they've catabolised their mass. It's a real thing. You can run a marathon but you can't lift 30lb. Probably not that dramatic. Lifting, and cardio, are not the same. It is...Fine...For a character to be Str 3 and not have some other character carry them around like a backpack. It's just not necessary. Str and Con are not the same, and they're not the same IRL, either.

- I imagine the joke is that the character is only pretending to be an invalid. When needs must, the character just gets up and walks just fine, and runs off leaving the rest of the party to die.

[Zhorn]

Um, I'm not the DM in this game I'm the player? {scrub the post, scrub the quote}
To be fair you didn't say prior to that it was your own character or you were the player

I ruled that 3 strength would leave a character unable to walk
rulings are typically DM territory, so it was more reasonable to assume you were the DM making a ruling on another player's character, not you as a player making a self-imposed ruling on yourself.
The prior statements was about player advocacy against an unnecessarily harsh DM ruling, not RP choices vs wargame mentalities.

[GeoffWatson]

I played a character with 3 Strength back in 2nd edition. I rolled high scores (18 Int, 18 Dex, 17 Con, 17 Wis, 16 Cha, 3 Str). He could do most things, but needed help carrying his gear. IIRC I got a special light-weight spellbook so I could carry it.

[Aaedimus]

To be fair you didn't say prior to that it was your own character or you were the player

rulings are typically DM territory, so it was more reasonable to assume you were the DM making a ruling on another player's character, not you as a player making a self-imposed ruling on yourself.

The prior statement was about player advocacy against an unnecessarily harsh DM ruling, not RP choices vs wargame mentalities.


Oh, I completely understood that. He even had a decent point. He was fairly rude though and I responded in kind. I wouldn't have responded like that if he didn't say it that way.

The wish happened as the character earned lvl 17, and although we'd generally have to rest I got to ding to create the moment. Once the wish happened, I said he collapsed, had a convo with the DM and we both thought it was pretty cool if the exhaustion from the Wish spell was that impactful because, hey... I'm pretty sure the mechanics were there for that reason. Casting Wish for something other than a spell should be a big deal. You're rewriting reality.

I think after a night of thinking about it, the way I'm going to roleplay the exhaustion, is he'll have 1/2 movement (or less?), and have to use his staff to walk, but although he CAN still walk etc, it's burdensome on him and tiring.

If I really wanted to get rid of it I think greater restoration would just restore him.

I can Shapechange. I'm not sure if the 3 Str should transfer to the new shapes... I would say no, even though it would be cool... I'm thinking he might use stuff like Tasha's Guise and Fly when it's inconvenient for the group to help.... maybe get a Greater Steed from one of the Paladins with the Ring of Spell Storing.... the dungeons aren't big enough for horses but he's a gnome so a CR2 medium creature is within bounds, even if I have to true polymorph a Pegasus

[JackPhoenix]

I played a character with 3 Strength back in 2nd edition. I rolled high scores (18 Int, 18 Dex, 17 Con, 17 Wis, 16 Cha, 3 Str). He could do most things, but needed help carrying his gear. IIRC I got a special light-weight spellbook so I could carry it.

I've had something like that in 3.5 game I ran. Already low Str sorcerer got Fireball'd by a rakshasa and reincarnated into gnome, giving further -2 to Str. Started to ride the druid's wolf from then on, both to deal with the slow speed and to help carry her stuff.

[OvisCaedo]

I can Shapechange. I'm not sure if the 3 Str should transfer to the new shapes... I would say no, even though it would be cool... I'm thinking he might use stuff like Tasha's Guise and Fly when it's inconvenient for the group to help.... maybe get a Greater Steed from one of the Paladins with the Ring of Spell Storing.... the dungeons aren't big enough for horses but he's a gnome so a CR2 medium creature is within bounds, even if I have to true polymorph a Pegasus

The real question you have to ask for some of these methods is: Does the self-nuke damage from casting any spell happen *before* or *after* you would need to start concentrating on them? Casting shapechange hits you with 9d10 necrotic damage. That's around 50 damage on average for a DC 25 concentration check... unless your GM is kind enough to decide the damage happens first! This is something you should check with them in general. It's a lot easier to pass for lower level spells, but knowing the order of operations is going to matter for every concentration spell while the penalties hold.

[Aaedimus]

The real question you have to ask for some of these methods is: Does the self-nuke damage from casting any spell happen *before* or *after* you would need to start concentrating on them? Casting shapechange hits you with 9d10 necrotic damage. That's around 50 damage on average for a DC 25 concentration check... unless your GM is kind enough to decide the damage happens first! This is something you should check with them in general. It's a lot easier to pass for lower level spells, but knowing the order of operations is going to matter for every concentration spell while the penalties hold.

That's only if I use it before a long rest. Everything else lasts for 5 days, but the necrotic damage only lasts until your next long rest.

[OvisCaedo]

So it is! Never mind! The whole block of text just kind of blended together.

[JackPhoenix]

I can Shapechange. I'm not sure if the 3 Str should transfer to the new shapes... I would say no, even though it would be cool.

I would argue yes. You retain the effects of other spells when you Shapechange, the forced Str 3 from Wish is not much different from, say, Feeblemind.

[Witty Username]

Cast wish, now spending 5 days gimped in a high level dungeon

I ruled that 3 strength would leave a character unable to walk, so the barbarian he wished back to life is carrying him for now.

Is this reasonable, and what other effects do you think would be thematic?
we know carrying capacity is dropped to 45lb... doesn't seem like enough to me

Out of curiosity, was their a reason you couldn't duplicate a resurrection spell? was the barbarian disintegrated?

Since you already can't walk, carrying capacity is kinda moot, as are the variant encumbrance rules. But I would say that is good enough of a penalty on its own.