Walker in the Waste Early Entry - How ?

[samduke]

D&D 3.5 , Walker in the Waste Early Entry and how to do it legitimately at the earliest level possible.

Walker in the Waste (PRC)
Requirements
Feats: Heat Endurance
Spells: Ability to cast at least three spells of the Sand or Thirst domain as divine spells

I have google-fu'ed this and found many things on the subject, and due to limits of the gm this is the direction i have gone but am still falling short.

Thus any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated

Build so far
Silverbrow Human , gain Feather Fall (Sp)
Flaw Feat Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate) , qualified for via Feather Fall (Sp)
Flaw Feat Alternative Spell Source , now arcane count as divine and divine as arcane
Human Bonus Feat: Heat Endurance
Creation Feat: TBD
Level 1 Arcane Disicple (Thirst Domain)
from sandstorm
Azul: Domains: Evil, Law, Plant, Thirst, Water
& from greyhawk
Geshtai: Domains: Ocean, Plant, Thirst, Travel, Water, Weather


Class Charisma Arcane Caster TBD

by this point it looks like I have 2 of the 3 Thirst domain as divine spells, and I am looking for the 3rd somehow, and this is where you guys of the playground can help

thank you in advance

edited

[Gnaeus]

Just a reminder that arcane disciple requires know religion 4. That might require a feat unless it’s a class skill for your Cha arcane class of choice.

[samduke]

Just a reminder that arcane disciple requires know religion 4. That might require a feat unless it’s a class skill for your Cha arcane class of choice.

yeah

Bronze Solaris Member - Dragon 334 - sorcerer 1st - grants Knowledge (religion)

Dread Necromancer
Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Profession, and Spellcraft


Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate)
Dread Necromancer level 1 - Parching Touch

need a solution to get that 3rd "Thirst Domain" spell

Edited

[Gorthawar]

I thought you needed 3 spells of thirst and / or sand domain which is a lot easier than 3 of thirst or 3 of sand domain.

For the latter you might need a combination of arcane disciple, versatile spellcaster and sanctum spell to get it before level 5 or 6.

Otherwise couldn't you get parching touch as a sorcerer lvl 1 spell, dessicate through precocious apprentice (2 thirst domain) and waste strider from arcane disciple (1 sand domain)

Edit: Just checked and couldn't find a deity that had the sand domain. The closest I got was Set from the Mulhorandi Pantheon which has "the desert" and "drought" in her portfolio.

[Thurbane]

I see Silverbrow Human thrown around a lot to qualify for an arcane spellcaster level.

SLAs don't work like that - they are neither arcane nor divine unless specified otherwise. See Complete Mage page 7 for clarification of this.

Some people seem to rule it that way, but I would always check with the DM first.

[ciopo]

I assume you're looking for an earlier entry than "be a 3rd level cleric" ? You just need to have both those domains.

[samduke]

I see Silverbrow Human thrown around a lot to qualify for an arcane spellcaster level.

SLAs don't work like that - they are neither arcane nor divine unless specified otherwise. See Complete Mage page 7 for clarification of this.

Some people seem to rule it that way, but I would always check with the DM first.


feat Precocious Apprentice
Prerequisite arcane caster level 1st

Complete Mage
I fail to find any references to SLA's period let alone saying they do not give a caster level

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm
If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is:

Complete Arcane P71 & 72
CASTER LEVEL
In the context of a feat or a prestige class requirement, a caster
level prerequisite (such as “caster level 5th”) measures the
character’s ability to channel a minimum amount of magical
power. For feats or prestige classes requiring a minimum
caster level, creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations
instead of spells use either their fixed caster level
or their class level to determine qualification. meet the requirement.

a Silverbrown human with featherfall sp would by both the SRD & CArc. meet the requirements of
feat Precocious Apprentice
Prerequisite arcane caster level 1st


I assume you're looking for an earlier entry than "be a 3rd level cleric" ? You just need to have both those domains.
yeah I am trying to get in without cleric at the earliest possible which looks to be level 3-4 ish

[JNAProductions]

That doesn't say SLAs count as ARCANE caster levels-only that they count as having a caster level in general.

[FauxKnee]

If you play a fixed-list caster, you can pull this off with one extra feat or magical item. Alternately, your DM may be willing to waive the Heat Endurance requirement if you gain the fire subtype via mantle of the fiery spirit by paying for it during character creation.

(silverbrow, azurin, etc) human warmage
1 heat endurance (may be waived as noted above)
h versatile spellcaster
f alternate source spell
f arcane disciple (sand or thirst) - requires knowledge religion as class skill

Versatile spellcaster combined with the warmage's casting mechanic allows you to cast the 1st and 2nd level spell from your chosen domain. (Warmages know their entire spell list. Dread Necromancers are similar, and already have religion on their class list, but they don't learn a given level of spells until they have spell slots for it.)

To get the third spell, you could accomplish it via a feat or an item.

Feat: extra spell or touchstone. Touchstone's base benefit could be swapped for the planar touchstone (catalogues of enlightenment), selecting the domain you didn't choose for your standard feat. Note that it's pretty tough to meet the Catalogues requirement at level 1 without serious cheese.
Item: drake helm or ring of theurgy

Getting religion as a class skill:

Any of several feats (academy graduate, apprentice, education, flexible mind, skill knowledge, well read, etc...)
Rank 3 affiliation with Paragnostic Assembly. At level 1, the easiest way is to be a member for 20 years, which gives you an affiliation score of 16, qualifying you for rank 3. Does require some squinting at or disregarding of the questing and monthly dues requirements.

Getting extra feats:

faustian pact (fiendish codex ii, page 23) can grant up to two
any other means of getting a specific bonus feat (play as an elf instead, visit a magical location, worship an elder evil, etc.) + dark chaos shuffle (banned at many tables)



If you're willing to go with the nuclear option (and your DM agrees they're eligible for dragon psychoses and sovereign archetypes) you could play a dragonwrought kobold.

kobold sorcerer
1 dragonwrought
f alternate source spell
f extra spell: waste strider (or arcane disciple: sand)
? heat endurance (may be waived as noted previously or as noted below)
sovereign archetype: loredrake (cast at level +2)
dragon psychosis: spellhoarding (cast as wizard instead of sorcerer)

You'd cast spells as a third-level wizard at level 1, so you have access to 1st and 2nd level spells. That makes dessicate and parching touch available, so you only need to get waste strider. After you level up to 3 (sorc 1 / walker 2), you can get cured of your spellhoarding psychosis and go back to standard sorcerer casting (so that you're charisma based again.)

Regarding Heat Endurance, your DM may rule that the racial feature Heat Endurance of a desert kobold is equivalent to the feat for prereq purposes. (The Base Protection Level table on sandstorm p14 gives built-in heat protection for creatures native to hot climates. This is on par with the amount granted by the Heat Endurance feat.) If not, you're in a similar boat to the above scenario where you need an item or a bonus feat. However, sorcerer does have a wider array of spells to pick from, and you are "punching above your weight class" by casting at a higher level than your HD.

[JNAProductions]

I feel like you shouldn't rely on DMs being generous with rulings when you're working on early entry.

If you have a good character idea, a good DM should work with you to make it happen-but torturing RAW to browbeat a DM requires you to actually have ironclad RAW, not "This is RAW, and can we make an exception for this other bit?" It's also not a good thing to do in general.

[FauxKnee]

I feel like you shouldn't rely on DMs being generous with rulings when you're working on early entry.

If you have a good character idea, a good DM should work with you to make it happen-but torturing RAW to browbeat a DM requires you to actually have ironclad RAW, not "This is RAW, and can we make an exception for this other bit?" It's also not a good thing to do in general.

It's beneficial to share both RAW and RAI information online, so long as we're clear about the distinctions between them. DMs make judgment calls all the time and every game has one. I 100% agree that you should not be coercing your DM into anything--make your case in a respectful way and move on if they decide against your interpretation. Personally I feel even ironclad RAW is insufficiently convincing in some cases and have no qualms about house-ruling things like drown healing (though if anyone dedicated significant resources to something I ruled against, we find a cost-free way for the character to reallocate those resources.)

The heat endurance equivalency for desert races is not RAW but but I believe most DMs would be fine with it. There exists some precedent in the mechanics of both effects, the general rule on virtual feats, and the sandstorm heat protection table. At my table, any race published outside sandstorm that is explicitly native to (and comfortable in) the desert can waive heat endurance as a prerequisite. I also extend this benefit to creatures with fire resistance.

[Khedrac]

yeah I am trying to get in without cleric at the earliest possible which looks to be level 3-4 ish

How about Druid or Spirit Shaman levels? - Iirc they have enough of the spells on their spell list to qualify at level 3, their problem is getting Knowledge religion as a class skill...

[samduke]

How about Druid or Spirit Shaman levels? - Iirc they have enough of the spells on their spell list to qualify at level 3, their problem is getting Knowledge religion as a class skill...

its not the spells on list overall it is these specific spells that i am looking to get 3 of
Thirst Domain
1 - Parching Touch Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1, Thirst 1
2 - Dessicate Cleric 2, Druid 2, Sorcerer 2, Wizard 2, Thirst 2
3 - Tormenting Thirst Bard 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3, Spellthief 3, Thirst 3
4 - Dispel Water Bard 4, Druid 4, Cleric 5, Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5, Thirst 4,

Class dipping is not an option

1 and 2 I can get by level 1 fairly easy
magic items that grant spell slots or the like are probably out due to limited GP so this is heavily reliant on feats

planar touchstone (catalogues of enlightenment) (Planar Handbook 166-7 or Magic of Incarnum version of the feat Planar Touchstone 207) "Choose a cleric domain; you gain the granted power of that domain." Further, the Catalogues grants this as its higher order ability: Once per day, you may cast a spell from the cleric domain you have chosen, as though you had prepared the spell normally. You must be of sufficient character level to cast the spell and have a Wisdom equal to 10 + the spell's level.

I can not use this for the strict reading of the entry requirement says 3 of sand or 3 of thirst not 2 of 1 and 1 of the other

and if I can not get any of these spells before level 4 then it does not work for my overall idea

[ciopo]

I parse the "Ability to cast at least three spells of the Sand or Thirst domain as divine spells." as having a combination of at least three spell from these two domains, not three spells of (one or the other) domain, hence why you can natively qualify at third level as cleric if you have both domain, or as a 3rd level druid if you take extra spell as your third level feat to get parching touch.

Alternatively, as a wizard, again third level and take extra spell for waste strider, plus some shenanigans to get yourself recognized as divine.

All in all, the earliest/easiest qualification is getting waste strider + dessicate + parching touch, I don't parse the requirement to be "three spell from a single domain", that's how I'd rule it

[loky1109]

Somehow polymorph into beholder and go in beholder mage + Arcane Disicple (Thirst Domain). 3rd level spells on 3rd level class.

[Malphegor]

Be an Archivist

At level 2 or 3 become a Necropolitan.

At 3 take the feat Mad Faith. You now have spell slots for levels 1, 2, and 3.

Take the spells you need, they’re on the druid and cleric lists.

Become a sand lich. Be the party mummy. Walk like an egyptian.

For your arcane stuff take a 3 level dip in cleric to be a initiate of mystra. Take any spell. Hoorray you can now prepare anyspell from normal slots and can cast wizard spells.

Take the dynamic priest feat and make all your casting work somewhat off charisma.

Bam.

[Fouredged Sword]

I remember doing it as a spontaneous domain ACF cleric with versatile spellcaster. I think you can enter at level 2.


Human cleric 1 / Walker in the Waste X
Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF - PHB II (p. 37)
- Lets you cast your domain spells in place of cure spells as a cleric.

Sand domain
Thirst domain

Versatile spellcaster - Feat 1
- Lets you sacrifice 2 spells of one level to cast any spell you can spontaneously cast of 1 level higher. This allows you to cast the third required spell from the sand or thirst domain at level 1 by sacrificing 2 level 1 spells.

Clerics have +2 fort at level 1, so you can just take heat endurance as your human bonus feat.

Knowledge religion is a class skill so you also qualify to put 4 ranks in at level 1.

If your DM doesn't count spontaneous domain casting as spontaneous casting, there is a straight up spontaneous cleric casting ACF, but it's a downgrade in power generally.

[Remuko]

I remember doing it as a spontaneous domain ACF cleric with versatile spellcaster. I think you can enter at level 2.


Human cleric 1 / Walker in the Waste X
Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF - PHB II (p. 37)
- Lets you cast your domain spells in place of cure spells as a cleric.

Sand domain
Thirst domain

Versatile spellcaster - Feat 1
- Lets you sacrifice 2 spells of one level to cast any spell you can spontaneously cast of 1 level higher. This allows you to cast the third required spell from the sand or thirst domain at level 1 by sacrificing 2 level 1 spells.

Clerics have +2 fort at level 1, so you can just take heat endurance as your human bonus feat.

Knowledge religion is a class skill so you also qualify to put 4 ranks in at level 1.

If your DM doesn't count spontaneous domain casting as spontaneous casting, there is a straight up spontaneous cleric casting ACF, but it's a downgrade in power generally.

she's trying to get in without cleric


yeah I am trying to get in without cleric at the earliest possible which looks to be level 3-4 ish

[torrasque666]

feat Precocious Apprentice
Prerequisite arcane caster level 1st

Complete Mage
I fail to find any references to SLA's period let alone saying they do not give a caster level

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm
If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is:

Complete Arcane P71 & 72
CASTER LEVEL
In the context of a feat or a prestige class requirement, a caster
level prerequisite (such as “caster level 5th”) measures the
character’s ability to channel a minimum amount of magical
power. For feats or prestige classes requiring a minimum
caster level, creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations
instead of spells use either their fixed caster level
or their class level to determine qualification. meet the requirement.

a Silverbrown human with featherfall sp would by both the SRD & CArc. meet the requirements of
feat Precocious Apprentice
Prerequisite arcane caster level 1st


Nothing you've quoted states that the caster level is Arcane. No one's debating whether or not having an SLA gives you a Caster Level. Its whether or not it counts as a specifically Arcane caster level that's in question. Because Precocious Apprentice specifically requires an Arcane caster level. Without SLA's granting that, a Silverbrow Human can no more take Precocious Apprentice than a Cleric could.

[icefractal]

Why would the SLA be necessary anyway? The plan given in the OP is to be a Charisma-based arcane caster, so they'll already have arcane CL 1 at 1st level.