Check out my stock - Wandering Merchant rogue subclass

[Greywander]

Basically I wanted an item-using rogue subclass that wasn't a thief. A traveling merchant that can pull items out of their coat to use without needing to spend gold, not unlike what spellcasters can do. Who needs Cure Wounds when you have a healing potion, or Acid Splash when you have vials of acid, or Grease when you have flasks of oil? The ability to pull out exactly the item you need at the moment is also a feature I've played with on other homebrew classes, and it seemed fitting here as well.

Here's the link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bdMq-PSHUUhDN6_3g7ZyffCpXtEJS9rUnepF9HNq1OQ/edit?usp=sharing

Here's a forum-friendly quotable version of the current write up (check the link for the most up-to-date version). Update: Up to date as of this post. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=25252752#post25252752)



3rd
Item User, Item Shop


9th
Pack Rat, Haggler


13th
Use Magic Device


17th
Premium Stock


Item User
Beginning when you take this archetype at 3rd level, you become proficient with the use of improvised weapons, and you may use your Sneak Attack with an improvised weapon, even if it isn’t a finesse or ranged weapon. In addition, when you use or attack with an item, you can draw that item as part of the same action. Finally, you can take the Use an Object action as a bonus action.

Item Shop
When you take this archetype at 3rd level, you gain a stock of useful items that you’ve accumulated during your adventures. You seem to always have a knack for having exactly the item you need at a given moment, reaching deep within your pockets to produce the item in question.

You have a number of trade points equal to your rogue level, which can be spent to create useful items. You regain all expended trade points at the end of a long rest.

As an action, you can create an item by spending 1 trade point per 25 gp of the item’s value, rounded up, as well as paying the cost to buy the item. You can also create an item as part of the same action you use to attack with or use that item.

When you use this feature to create a consumable item, you can choose to create an alternate version of that item which doesn’t cost any gold to create. If you do so, you can’t recover the trade points used to create the item until the item is either consumed or destroyed, or you spend the gold as if you had created the item normally.

In addition, you can also sell unwanted items without needing to access a shop or even a town, destroying the item and receiving half that item’s value in appropriate coinage. Only common and non-magical items can be sold this way.

Deep Pockets
Starting at 9th level, your carrying capacity is doubled. If you are using variant encumbrance, then you no longer suffer any penalties for being encumbered.

In addition, when you are searched, the creature searching you has disadvantage on ability checks to find items on your person. You can also choose an item to hide on your person as an action, and that item cannot be found by any means until you retrieve it. You can only hide one such item at a time.

Haggler
When you reach 9th level, you are able to negotiate for better prices. Any time you spend money, you can get a discount of 10%, and any time you receive payment from another creature, or when you sell an item using your Item Shop feature, you can gain an extra 10%. (An easy way to handle this is to get back 1 silver piece for each gold piece spent, or to gain an extra silver piece for each gold piece gained.)

In addition, you can more easily find buyers and sellers for rare items, including magic items. Whenever you roll to find a rare item for sale, or to find a buyer for your rare item, you can roll twice and use either result.

Use Magic Device
By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.

Premium Stock
Beginning when you reach 17th level, you gain a select stock of rare and magical items. As an action, or as part of the action to use the item, you can create a magic item with a rarity up to very rare. The item will lose its power after 1 minute and become worthless. Once you use this feature, you must finish a long rest before you may use it again.

Additionally, when you use your Item Shop feature, the trade point cost to create an item is reduced by 1. This allows you to create items worth 25 gp or less without spending any trade points, though the gold cost to create the item does not change.

I'm not sure about the specific write up for Item Shop. I was a bit worried about loopholes that would allow you to create an item for free and sell it, so I tried to address that. I'm also unsure of Premium Stock; maybe there's a better way to write that feature up.

What do you think? Does this look like a fun rogue subclass?

[JNAProductions]

Premium Stock could, as written, make anything. Including artifacts. I'd limit it a lot more than what's written, because right now, there's really not any.

Otherwise... Feels perhaps a touch underpowered, but definitely seems fun! It's a neat as heck concept.

[Greywander]

Premium Stock could, as written, make anything. Including artifacts. I'd limit it a lot more than what's written, because right now, there's really not any.
True. One minute isn't long enough to attune to and use an item, so you are sort of limited to magic items that don't require attunement. Still, perhaps I should limit it to a certain item rarity. I could have it go up to legendary, but perhaps even that would be too strong.


Otherwise... Feels perhaps a touch underpowered, but definitely seems fun! It's a neat as heck concept.
I wasn't sure if it would end up too strong or not strong enough. As I was writing it up, I had the idea to grant extra attunement slots, since collecting items is part of the theme for this subclass, but ultimately cut it as I didn't have a good spot to put it.

I also tried to write the Item Shop feature to be on par with a half or third caster, though perhaps a vial of acid or alchemist's fire isn't really comparable to a 1st level spell (they're really more like cantrips). Still, you can use them as a bonus action and Sneak Attack with them if you miss with your main Attack action. One way to boost the power level would be to double the number of trade points they get, or have them refresh on a short rest, so that you can spam acid or alchemist's fire (or use a different item, like oil or a healing potion) without worrying as much about running out. Caltrops and ball bearings are also quite useful, though they're so cheap you're better off stocking up on them while in town instead of spending trade points to make them. It's a shame there's not a "better" version of caltrops or ball bearings with a higher DC.

[Greywander]

Small update: you now get trade points equal to your rogue level, and Premium Stock only makes up to a very rare item.

[Myth27]

I love it, looks super fun!

[Bjarkmundur]

I absolutely love this concept! It had a really strong theme, fits a great niche and I am definitely a player that wouldbe get a TON of satisfaction using those mechanics.

The main feature is really reliant on playtesting, and I'm sure it's going to morph slowly over time. I'm having a bit of a hard time placing it in the narrative. It's kinda like spending time during a long rest to create items, but not deciding which items until you use them, to give you a feel of making "exactly the right item".

I do the a similar thing with mundane equipment. I tell me players they have "a backpack of mundane tools", and they can just state at any point "I take out my shovel!", even though the never explicitly stated they brought a shovel.

This seems to work similarly, that the rogue makes "schröding items" that you don't know what are until you use them.

There are some things I don't quite understand, but I'll figure it out when I've had some Better sleep. Right now brain no worky.

[Greywander]

I love it, looks super fun!
Thanks! I'm not sure it's especially powerful, but it does seem like it would be fun to play.


I'm having a bit of a hard time placing it in the narrative. It's kinda like spending time during a long rest to create items, but not deciding which items until you use them, to give you a feel of making "exactly the right item".
I modeled it after a similar feature from an older homebrew of mine, where the explanation was literally that the character was so absent minded that they forgot what they had purchased while in town.

I think for an ability like this you have to accept that there's a separation between the narrative and the mechanics. Mechanically, you convert gold you have into items you didn't have (or, for consumables, just spawn the items out of nothing). But narratively, you're a merchant, so you always keep a stock of items on you. You've always been carrying those items, likely since the last time you were in town to restock. There are some situations where this could get a little wonky, like if you were totally broke in town, and convert treasure you just found into items, but you can still kind of handwave it away.

Anyway, I'll see if I can give this a spin at some point. I spend more time homebrewing than actually playing the game, so it's hard to playtest stuff.

[Bjarkmundur]

I spend more time homebrewing than actually playing the game, so it's hard to playtest stuff.

I know that feeling 😂😂😂

I think I finally wrapped my head around it, at least we'll enough. Took my a while to realize the ability actually consumed real gold pieces, even though you can get them back.

[Bjarkmundur]

It's just this part that still confused me, but I think I'll get it eventually.


When you use this feature to create a consumable item, you can choose to create the item normally, or to create a temporary version of that item. If you create the temporary version, it doesn’t cost any gold to create, but you can’t recover the trade points used to create the item until the item is either consumed or destroyed, or you spend the gold to make it a permanent item.

So I can

- create a (let's say) a crowbar for 1 trade point and 2gp. I can then either get the gold back by dismissing the item (but not the trade point), or keep the item permanently.

OR

- create a healing Potion for 2 trade points and 0gp and use it right away, or I can create a Healing Potions that I don't have to use right away by spending 2 trade points and 50gp.


If that's the case, there must be a better way of phrasing the mechanic. :/

[Greywander]

Yeah, sorry it's not super clear. Basically, there's two similar but slightly different features here.

One feature allows you to retroactively buy items. You spend real gold on them, but the real limiter is your trade points. High level characters can have a lot of gold, so I don't want you to just buy anything anywhere. You're still encouraged to actually buy things you know you'll need, and then if you forgot something you can use this ability to buy it retroactively. And honestly, I could probably remove the refund aspect of the ability. Hmm, maybe I should.

The other feature allows you to create and use a consumable item without actually needing to pay any gold for it. Things like vials of acid, flasks of oil, alchemist's fire, holy water, healing potions, and so on are somewhere between cantrips and 1st level spells in power, so they're not actually super strong. Imagine if the wizard had to pay 50 gp every time they cast a 1st level spell. This way, you can have the ability to incorporate these items into your playstyle without needing to pay out exorbitant amounts of gold.

However, I had to consider what would happen if you created such an item, but didn't use it right away. Or worse, you gave it to an NPC who then left the current scene with the item still unused. Or worse, if you started selling those items for free money. Hence, you can't get the trade points back until the item is used (and it never gets "used" if you sell it or give it away) or you spend gold to make it permanent, as with the first feature above. Sure, I could have required you to use it right away, but I like the idea of being able to share the items with your team (maybe in exchange for a small fee :smallwink: ).

I'm sure there's a better way to word it, so maybe I'll go over it later and see if I can improve it.

[Breccia]

This is a fun-looking subclass. I would note, it wouldn't take much to make this a scavenger or relic-hunter or tomb-raider wait no not that one, since the items could just as easily be found as purchased. So the name "merchant" doesn't have to be restricted to that profession.

[Greywander]

This is a fun-looking subclass. I would note, it wouldn't take much to make this a scavenger or relic-hunter or tomb-raider wait no not that one, since the items could just as easily be found as purchased. So the name "merchant" doesn't have to be restricted to that profession.
"Okay, we need something to quickly restrain him without hurting him."

"Now look at this net, that I just found!" (https://youtu.be/PfYnvDL0Qcw?t=93)

[Potato_Priest]

However, I had to consider what would happen if you created such an item, but didn't use it right away. Or worse, you gave it to an NPC who then left the current scene with the item still unused. Or worse, if you started selling those items for free money. Hence, you can't get the trade points back until the item is used (and it never gets "used" if you sell it or give it away) or you spend gold to make it permanent, as with the first feature above. Sure, I could have required you to use it right away, but I like the idea of being able to share the items with your team (maybe in exchange for a small fee :smallwink: ).


I'm thinking about this problem. See what you think of this solution: Since the items still cost trade points, I suggest taking out the used or unused stuff and just add a little rule that says
when selling items you created using this feature to people outside the party, you earn net wealth equivalent to 10gp for every trade point worth of items sold. Thus, selling permanent created items earns you 10gp/trade point+the cost of creating it, while selling temporary created items earns you a flat 10gp/trade point. This applies whenever you or a party member sells any item you created with trade points. Selling items to NPCs still requires a market or an interested npc, as per usual. If a player wants to blow their spell slot equivalents on money during an adventuring day that's their choice, and this gives the merchant a way to earn a little coin during downtime and a small buff when operating in cities.

[Greywander]

I'm thinking about this problem. See what you think of this solution: Since the items still cost trade points, I suggest taking out the used or unused stuff and just add a little rule that says If a player wants to blow their spell slot equivalents on money during an adventuring day that's their choice, and this gives the merchant a way to earn a little coin during downtime and a small buff when operating in cities.
Not a bad idea to have them be able to expend trade points during downtime to earn some money. Though I might make it as simple as trade points spend = gp earned, possibly with the addition that you can support a certain lifestyle (so the gp earned is all profit), or that each lifestyle can be supported by spending a certain number of tradepoints (less than the gp that would be required), and anything beyond that is profit.

I'm also playing with an idea for an alternate subclass capstone. Basically, what I was thinking was lifting the limit on how many item you can make, but I still want to limit the value of items you can make. I think the best way to do this would be something like regaining 1 trade point at the start of each turn. That way, you can still spam vials of acid all day, but you can't make anything worth more than 500 gp (at 20). Though this would mean unlimited healing, since you can make healing potions. You can also make spell scrolls, and can use them yourself since you get Use Magic Device. So maybe this isn't such a good idea.

Hmm, maybe a better idea for an alternate capstone would be to just reduce the trade point cost to create something by 1. This means anything 25 gp or under doesn't cost any trade points to create, letting you make unlimited of them (healing potions are 50 gp, so they'd still cost 1 trade point to create). This would greatly extend your use of low value items (and slightly extend the use of high value items), and insure you can always chuck a vial of acid as a bonus action, even when you're out of trade points. But would this be better than their current capstone? What if, since they seem to be a bit on the underpowered side, we just gave them this in addition to their current capstone?

[Bjarkmundur]

I think the way to go is definitely to simplify, gamify and just trust the willing suspension of disbelief of the players. Thid is not the first class revolving around crafting items as it's main feature, after all.

The main selling point for me honestly is how it incorporates the DMs market and item tables, which a lot of the time get very little love. I love the idea of playing this class and in addition to my character sheet I have this huge printout of my DMs available items, and get to use them as my resources for problem solving while adventuring.

I don't think anything in this subclass should incentivize selling its crafted items. A ribbon fits the role of increasing its Downtime effectiveness much better, like the one you have which gets you better prices. I don't mind there being a strict distinction between "items crafted to be effective" and "selling items your DM gave you while adventuring".

Expending uses of a class Ability to generate gold is just a huge red flag, honestly.

[Greywander]

I've made a couple more tweaks:

Item Shop no longer allows you to refund items. You can still sell them normally to recover half the gold spent, though.
Rewrote how consumable items work with Item Shop. Not sure this is much better, but hopefully it's a bit clearer.
Renamed Pack Rat to Deep Pockets.
Deep Pockets (formerly Pack Rat) now allows you to hide one item at a time on your person, making it impossible to find. Good if you want to RP as a smuggler or something.
Premium Stock now also reduces trade point cost for Item Shop by 1, allowing you to create 25 gp and cheaper items without spending any trade points.
Got rid of the struck through text, as it was starting to impact readability.

I debated letting Haggler allow you to support a comfortable lifestyle (instead of allowing you to spend trade points to gain gold), but I'd hope by 9th level you're not actually having to work during downtime to pay your bills. That's something you do at low levels when you don't have cash. Still, 9th level does feel a bit weak, and it might still see some use during, say, extended downtime. What do you think?

[Bjarkmundur]

Glad to see the updated :)


I may be just still not getting it, but is the only purpose of trade points to limit the value of the item you can create, and the cumulative value of all the items you can create within a single day?

I mean, you can use a part of your daily spendings and a number of gold equal to the value of the item to create a an item. Right? Then you can refund the item to regain half the amount of coins spent, but it still counts towards your daily spendings?

I don't know if this would affect the gameplay experience, but why not just say that?



You have a maximum daily spending amount, which limits the total value of all the items you can produce in a day. This amount increases as you gain level, as shown on your class table.

As an action, you can produce an item, spending a number of coins equal to the item's market value, and an equal number from your daily spendings. You can use the item as a part of the same Action. If you do not have enough coins to produce the items, or not enough daily spendings remaining, this action fails and you don't produce an item.
For example, a level 3 merchant uses an action and 50gp to produce a Potion of Healing. The character drinks it as a part of the same action, regaining 2d4+2 Hit points. Producing this item reduces the remaining daily spendings left by 50gp, leaving only ____ left until the character can take a long rest. If the merchant would now want to produce a longbow, even if he had the coins, he would not have enough daily spendings left to complete the action, and the action fails.

[Bjarkmundur]

Like I said, I'm not trying to fundamentally change the class, just putting it under the same scrutiny as I want others to put my own creations under <3

[Greywander]

I may be just still not getting it, but is the only purpose of trade points to limit the value of the item you can create, and the cumulative value of all the items you can create within a single day?

I mean, you can use a part of your daily spendings and a number of gold equal to the value of the item to create a an item. Right? Then you can refund the item to regain half the amount of coins spent, but it still counts towards your daily spendings?
More or less. I did it this way for two reasons: (a) working in 25 gp increments makes it easier to track, so you max out at 20 trade points, rather than a 500 gp spending limit, and (b) because it rounds up, it limits how many low value items you can spam. If you just had a spending limit of up to 500 gp at 20th level, then you could spam lots and lots of low value items, but by using trade points you're ultimately limited to a maximum of 20 items, even if they only cost a copper piece each. The capstone intentionally removes this limit by reducing the trade point cost by 1, but you don't get that until tier 4 when PCs tend to get crazy powerful anyway, and being able to spam a vial of acid for free every round as a BA isn't actually that strong at 17+.

Hmm, I should probably add a clause that prevents you from creating items with no value, or rather that you have to spend at least 1 trade point to create such an item, even though they have no value. Again, the capstone would intentionally remove this limit, but I don't want lower level merchants to be able to spam infinite rocks or something.

Some notes about the version you wrote up: You specify that it takes an action, but I intentionally wrote my version of the feature so that you can use it as a bonus action, or even a reaction, provided that you're using the same action to use the item. Remember, like thieves they get the ability to use items as a BA, so I want them to be able to use the same BA to create the item so they can do it mid-combat. The other thing is that I want consumables to not cost gold to create, so that you can use them more freely, especially at lower levels when you don't have a lot of money, and your version of the feature doesn't include a clause for that. I still think there might be a better way I could word the feature, but I do want to make sure I include these aspects into it, which limits how much it can be simplified.

Thanks for the critique, it's been really helpful. Often when I post homebrew, someone to point out a flaw in the design that I didn't notice, and it really helps me to cover those up, not to mention helping to balance out features that are too strong or too weak.