Build advice for 3.5 Barbarian Cleric

[nellie1973]

Hi all,

After DM'ing for 10 years I have finally got to play and opted to have a Level 4 cleric build. Playing as Neutral good, diplomatic party leader style.

Books allowed PHB 1 (DM is very strict!!!!!)

Stats (rolled) are

Str:18
Dex:12
Con:16
Wis:16 (+1lvl 4)
Int:10
Cha:14

I would like a two handed sword build so for feat choice I have gone for Power attack/cleave/focus greatsword.

The DM has been generous an allowed an extra feat which I have added as dodge. Our local game rules that this applies to ALL attackers.

Domains: Travel and Strength or War. Low mobility full plate to get the best AC that I can. AC 20 at present.

My thoughts so far is that I would be a self bolstering cleric adding bulls strength, divine favour, protection from evil, longstrider etc before wading into melee with the greatsword whilst raging. Adding enlarge person from the Strength domain to up my sword damage to 3d6 :) I would like to be a high damage kind of guy.

Other members of the party are:

My halfling rogue 3/ cleric 1 (swiss army knife domains Magic and Travel)
Human ranger 2 fighter 2 (solid bowman)
Human fighter 2 rogue 2 (TWF light armour build)
Dwarf fighter 2 Barbarian 2 (tank -axe shield build)
Elven ranger 1 wizard 3 (ray specialist)
NPC divine healer (invented class) -Heals /removes condition etc but cannot bolster and never attacks.

I looked at the optimised damage output and this looks attractive:

MW Greatsword +9attk 2d6+6

Bulls str+rage (26) +13attk 2d6+12 14-24

Enlarge (20) +8attk 3d6+7 10-25

Enlarge+Bulls (24) +10attk 3d6+10 13-28

BS+Rage+Enla (28) +13attk 3d6+13 16-31
Max Power attack +10attk 3d6+19 22-37

Hit points rolled so far give me 42 at level 4.

I'm looking for the views of other players outside of my friends. Been playing on and off since I was 14 (now 48!!).

DM has offered one chance of a re-build before he ties us down with our final characters. I so want to get this right :)

Does anyone have any views or has played anything similar?

[RNightstalker]

War domain should get you weapon focus for free. Also, how many levels of barbarian vs. cleric are you taking?

[nellie1973]

Just one level of barbarian then pure cleric

[gijoemike]

Just PHB 1? That is some brutal nonsense considering it is by far the most unbalanced book.

But Cleric is an excellent choice with those restrictions.

It seems like you are going for war bringer, cleric of whoop-a$$.
Who is your deity it matters for the War domain as you get free weapon Focus.


You also state YOUR halfing rogue. Is everyone playing 2 characters in the campaign?
This is a 4th level barb cleric build. Are you locked into levels yet?

With only 1 level of barbarian you would have 8 rounds of rage/day, can only rage once a day, and fatigue in combat is terrible.
Also, you cannot cast spells while raging. So if the tide of battle turns and you need to throw a spell to bolster a PC or save someone, you would be in a world of hurt.

Enlarge would be a 1 time a day only spell that takes 1 full round to cast. I would almost suggest never using enlarge rage at the same time. Well, save as nova option.

Dodge requires a Dex of 13, so is your DM letting you have a feat for free without meeting prereqs? I need a bit more info on this. Dodge is one of the worst feats in the game. It is passive defense even houseruled. Great Will, Fort, or Reflexes would be better. I would say take improved init. Cast that buff spell quicker. Smack them first.

Cleric 4, cleric 2/Barb 2, and cleric 1/Barb 3 all have the same BAB of +3.

Being in plate actually hurts some of the class abilities from Barbarian and you cannot switch them out due to this being a PHB only game.


I would almost say go cleric 4 but with a bad temper. Swing first and don't bother with questions. Your "Rage" will be Divine Power from the war domain and being a cleric in general.

[lylsyly]

First of all PHB only is tough! So no prestige classes?
You are aware that you can't cast spells while raging?
Given the limited resources I would go Cleric 3 to get second level spells. Then Barbarian 1 for rage. Then cleric 4 and 5 for 3rd level spells. Then go straight Barbarian. Might also consider a two handed reach weapon and spiked gauntlet. That way you can add tripping to your bag of tricks.

I wouldn't play in this game. Of course I'm biased. Our table uses all 1st party sources except when I occasionally run an SRD (-) campaign which isn't as limited as PHB only.

As long as your having fun right?

Just my 2 coppers, YMMV!!

EDIT: Shucks, ninja'd on half of it ;-D))))

[nellie1973]

First, thanks all for your sound advice. It is much appreciated and very kind.

The DM is ancient himself (53) and a bit of a traditionalist with an edge of control. He has a fear of any extra rule books and dislikes the "combining of rules." That said he will add a few unique house rule abilities occasionally. We play two characters each for a total of 7 in the party. One NPC "healer."

He has nerfed trip so that isn't an option as when I was the DM he played a tripping spiked chain rogue and it was control carnage.......

Dodge-I've just realised that I don't meet the prerequisites so that will go out of the window. Improved initiative sounds like a great idea.

I am keen to have the martial weapon proficiencies as I want to grab a glaive when enlarged to allow me to threaten a larger area and to grant me the extra dice damage of the greatsword. Sole cleric would probably be dwarvern tank build with all of the extra resilience.

I took travel domain for the decent spell choice and freedom of movement freebie. Strength for enlarge and good spell choice. War I considered for the free focus and my initial build was cleric 4 with the greatsword. I would be using rage when my spells have been depleted as the healing would be done by our NPC.

House rule is that we can choose any non opposed domain for any religion.

Years ago I played a paladin 2 cleric 3 combo resilience build with a tower shield. Awesome AC and saves but was a bit light on the striking front.

Keen on doing the damage in the front line as party leader I would like to have an impact :smallsmile:

[Particle_Man]

One feat you might invest in is brew potion. Potions of cure x wounds are one of the few ways to heal yourself while raging. Or just get the potions somehow (maybe the npc healer or the halfling with cleric 1, or maybe just buy them in town).

Also, be very careful with rage. It gives you temporary con, but those hit points go away at the end of the rage, and at higher levels that means you can go from fully operational to dead in an instant. It might be good to have that npc healer adjacent to and behind you, keeping you topped up as much as possible in combat (at least out of that red zone that includes the hp which you only have because of the rage).

[nellie1973]

We are playing a military style theme and the Quartermaster frequently issues us with potions. Sometimes he gives us a choice of enhancements with additional inventory that we can purchase.

The rage issue was something that happened to one of our old players and we haven't forgotten it since :)

[Psyren]

With just a 1 level dip and no splat support, a Fighter feat and heavy armor proficiency will probably do you more good than 1/day rage that shuts off your spellcasting. Just wear a bunch of bones and tattoos and say you're a barbarous cleric :smalltongue:

Better yet, be a ranger - after all, one of the most iconic rangers in D&D is Minsc, who was very barbarian in theme. That will get you a bunch of useful skill points at first level.

[Maat Mons]

Oh… I was very excited to talk about some cool ideas for playing a Cleric from a tribe of barbarians. But alas, all the cool stuff I had in mind went out the window when I saw the restriction on sources. Also, it turns out you actually wanted this Cleric to multiclass as a Barbarian. You want a Barbarian Cleric, not a barbarian Cleric.

A 1-level dip in Barbarian can be great… but more so in games that allow Complete Warrior… and even then, not for a caster. You’ll be forever stuck at 1 Rage per day, since you don’t have access to the Extra Rage feat. If you make a point of holding that one use in reserve, you may often find the adventuring day has ended without it ever being used. Kind of a waste.

With how poor the feat options are in a core-only game, maybe you should consider just getting proficiency with your desired weapon via a feat? I mean, with tripping being nerfed, that pretty much only leaves Improved Initiative and Power Attack as must-haves.

If you’re keen on using Enlarge Person, you might want to invest in a wand of the spell. That would, after a fashion, get around your sharp limitation on how many times per day you can cast the spell. Though if you’re mostly casting Enlarge Person from a wand, you might be better served by the Magic domain than the Strength domain. Both will let you activate the wand.

[bean illus]

With just a 1 level dip and no splat support, a Fighter feat and heavy armor proficiency will probably do you more good than 1/day rage that shuts off your spellcasting. Just wear a bunch of bones and tattoos and say you're a barbarous cleric :smalltongue:

Better yet, be a ranger - after all, one of the most iconic rangers in D&D is Minsc, who was very barbarian in theme. That will get you a bunch of useful skill points at first level.

Fighter for the feat and armor, or Ranger for skills.




A 1-level dip in Barbarian can be great… but more so in games that allow Complete Warrior… and even then, not for a caster. You’ll be forever stuck at 1 Rage per day, since you don’t have access to the Extra Rage feat. If you make a point of holding that one use in reserve, you may often find the adventuring day has ended without it ever being used. Kind of a waste.

With how poor the feat options are in a core-only game, maybe you should consider just getting proficiency with your desired weapon via a feat? I mean, with tripping being nerfed, that pretty much only leaves Improved Initiative and Power Attack as must-haves.

If you’re keen on using Enlarge Person, you might want to invest in a wand of the spell. That would, after a fashion, get around your sharp limitation on how many times per day you can cast the spell. Though if you’re mostly casting Enlarge Person from a wand, you might be better served by the Magic domain than the Strength domain. Both will let you activate the wand.

IF you can get Magic domain. (It's true that the rage will interfere with casting, etc)

It's important to know how many levels you might play. If you're only playing to level 5, you want cleric 3, for sure. If you're going to level 9+, you'll want cleric 7.

Cleric 7 with 2-4 levels of whichever +1 BAB of whichever class abilities you like, and you'll get fun fighter cleric.

Ranger 1 doesn't get much, but a butt-load of skills. You could fill the rogue's weaknesses?

Ranger 1 / Cleric 7

Cleric 3 / Fighter 2 / Cleric
If you go War, use a WF favored weapon for the +1.

Heironeous is PHb, longsword, Domains: Good, Inquisition, Law, War.

Kord ?

Combat Reflexes is a good PHb feat. You'll get extra strikes, gain small battlefield control, and Dex is an easy buff later.

[nellie1973]

Many thanks to all who replied. Much appreciated

I have gone Barbarian 1/cleric 3.
STR:18
Dex:16
Con:14
Wis:16
Int:10
Cha:12

Feats Focus glaive/Dodge (modified to +1 AC for all opponents-DM rule)
Combat reflexes. Bonus feat (dm rule) Toughness.

Dm has further nerfed power attack to a one for one including one handed weapons.

Domains :Strength and Travel. Enlarge with the glaive is so sexy :)

42 HP rolled so not too bad.

Spells are mainly self bolstering-Enlarge/bulls strength which combines well with rage. 28 strength with 20ft reach.

[liquidformat]

Here are somethings to think about:
You can have enlarge person perm'ed and if you aren't going to hit 9 levels of cleric (and get access to Righteous Might) it is a better choice than taking the strength domain (especially since the granted power sucks).
With Power Attack nerfed as well going straight druid would be a better choice. Once you hit level 5 and on you are going to be a better damage dealer than the barbarian cleric build.

[Anthrowhale]

You might take the Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF in PHB2 for the strength domain. That would allow you to enlarge person multiple times/day. Spontaneous Domain[Strength] is sort of like a Cleric's version of rage.

[Darg]

While this may not be as cool as a cutom prestige class, you could eventually have a custom item made that will cast the rage spell on you with a command word or even on use. Potions are also a viable option, but more limited in use.