My players want to craft a ONE-USE Memento Magica: How to do so?

[thom99]

As the title sez: the sorcerer in my group of PCs wants to make one-use items so he can sell them easier/quicker. I'm thinkin' just take the cost for the Permanent item and divide by 10?

Ex: a Memento Magica costs 750gp to craft, and sells for 1,500; so a One-use item would be 75gp to craft and 150gp to sell.

Has anyone else run across this before? Does this seem reasonable? Thanks for any help!

thom

[Psyren]

What kind of items? Scrolls? Elixirs? What?

[thom99]

What kind of items? Scrolls? Elixirs? What?
As the title said: "Memento Magica", but also other possible wondrous items...

[tyckspoon]

What kind of items? Scrolls? Elixirs? What?

A Memento Magica is the spontaneous casting equivalent of a Pearl of Power, so functionally the player wants to make a consumable Wondrous Item that refreshes a spell slot.

A scroll of Mage's Lucubration is probably the closest thing to that - if you assume that effect scales neatly (or want to pretend it does for this purpose, anyways), then you can price it as a scroll of a spell level 1 level higher than the one the item refreshes. That could be appropriate if it has similar usage limitations to scrolls - user must be a spellcaster, must be of appropriate level to cast the 'spell' already, etc.

[Thurbane]

Hmm, it's a little odd that the guide for pricing custom items only touches on single-use items when it comes to spell effects.

Even in core, several single use items exist that don't directly duplicate spell effects exist; would have been nice if that kind of thing was included in the pricing guide. Anyhow...


Single use, use-activated = spell level × caster level × 50 gp
Use-activated or continuous = spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp (variable upon the duration of the spell involved)

If you wanted a very loose and dirty guide, you could just make a single use item = price divided by 40.

[icefractal]

It's 1/day to single use though, not at-will to single use, so divided by 10 (or possibly 8) sounds correct.

Of course if it's only for the purpose of selling them, the price factor doesn't matter much other than getting it low enough to be more widely affordable - he's making the same profit per day regardless of the per-item cost.

[Thurbane]

It's 1/day to single use though, not at-will to single use, so divided by 10 (or possibly 8) sounds correct.

Good point:


Charges per day = Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)

[RandomPeasant]

It's basically a weird scroll. As such, I would say that 150 GP is probably over-priced.


Of course if it's only for the purpose of selling them, the price factor doesn't matter much other than getting it low enough to be more widely affordable - he's making the same profit per day regardless of the per-item cost.

Yeah, the weirdness of 3e item crafting makes the question as-stated mostly irrelevant. Anything you do makes money at the same rate as anything else, and because items sell for half the baseline profit is 0.

[KillianHawkeye]

Anything you do makes money at the same rate as anything else, and because items sell for half the baseline profit is 0.

Unless you open your own shop, and then you could theoretically sell items for the same price as other shops. Right? :smallwink:

At least, that's my wizard's current retirement plan.

[Rebel7284]

It's basically a weird scroll.

This. Power-level wise it's on par with a scroll. Slightly more powerful in some ways since it can be any spell that you know and you don't have to deal with the fixed caster level of scrolls. However, it doesn't allow you to bring a stack of rarely-used silver bullets like you can with scrolls.

[Maat Mons]

But if you’re a shop-owner, and therefore able to sell at full value, you’re also able to buy at half value. So why bother crafting anything yourself? You make just as much money flipping magic items you buy off adventurers as you would selling magic items you craft yourself.

If you’re going to go into business crafting magic items, I’d think you’d aim for having customers commission you to build the specific items they want. Otherwise, you’re throwing money into crafting things that you’re not certain you can sell.



I think the closest thing to a one-use spell-slot refill that exists within the official rules is a Dull Gray Ioun Stone. Page 160 of Expanded Psionics Handbook says a psionic character can use one of those to regain one power point, after which the Stone crumbles to dust. The 3.0 printing of Dungeon Master’s Guide lists a price of 25 gp for a Dull Gray Ioun Stone. Though for some reason, the 3.5 printing is completely silent on that item’s price.

[Crake]

But if you’re a shop-owner, and therefore able to sell at full value, you’re also able to buy at half value. So why bother crafting anything yourself? You make just as much money flipping magic items you buy off adventurers as you would selling magic items you craft yourself.

According to the DMGII, magic item stores make just as much money over time as other businesses, simply because of the low volume of trade that occurs in the magic item market. You typically go months or even years without selling anything, then make one big trade and cover all that time without sales.

[Xervous]

According to the DMGII, magic item stores make just as much money over time as other businesses, simply because of the low volume of trade that occurs in the magic item market. You typically go months or even years without selling anything, then make one big trade and cover all that time without sales.

Just one more reason to run a Howl’s Moving Castle setup, multiple storefronts (but one interior) means higher traffic.

[thom99]

This. Power-level wise it's on par with a scroll. Slightly more powerful in some ways since it can be any spell that you know and you don't have to deal with the fixed caster level of scrolls. However, it doesn't allow you to bring a stack of rarely-used silver bullets like you can with scrolls.

Yeah, that's kinda the way I'm leaning. TBH, I have zero doubt that the vast majority of such crafted items will be "sold" to the party (at cost).:smallamused: So I'm more concerned about keeping the sorcerer from running away with some super-cheap magic-crafting scheme.

[Fouredged Sword]

Just one more reason to run a Howl’s Moving Castle setup, multiple storefronts (but one interior) means higher traffic.

Real merchants set up in Sigle.

But back to the topic I think "Cost of a scroll 1 level higher" is exactly right more or less.

[Endarire]

@OP:
A Memento Magica is effectively a Pearl of Power. Whoever made Sors didn't like them and overcharged them for stuff.

Off-hand, I know of no direct formula to convert the cost of something from being at-will to one use, but let's look at some examples. Let's change the cost of this MM to that of a PoP, or 1000G * spell level * spell level for a once daily reusable item. Remember, this PoP only applies to spells of that level. No using a level 2 PoP to recharge a level 5 spell.

Let's consider the official item the Collar of Perpetual Attendance. It's from a WotC article intended as a joke, but useful enough to be remembered even now. It casts unseen servant (spell level 1) at will at CL1. It costs 2000G to buy or 1000G & 40 EXP to craft. A once-daily version of this collar would cost 1/5, or 400G to buy, or 200G & 8 EXP to craft. A one-use scroll of unseen servant is 25G to buy or 12.5G & 1 EXP to craft, and a one-use potion of this same spell costs 50G to buy or 25G & 1 EXP to craft. This spell has no EXP cost nor expensive material component, which would each increase the price. This gives a sense of scale as to what's RAW.

Let's change these numbers to a level 3 spell. 2000G * 3 * 5 is 30,000G for an at-will item, or 15,000G and 600 EXP to craft. This same item in once daily use form costs 1/5, or 6000G to buy, or 3000G & 120 EXP to craft. This same item in one-use scroll form costs 375G to buy or 187.5G & 7 EXP to craft in potion form. In one-use potion form it costs 750G to buy or 375G & 15 EXP to craft.

When your player said that a once daily item's cost was about 8-10 times that of a usable once only item, he was right, at least based on these calculations. Ultimately, it's your call. What say you?

[Hua]

Single use, use-activated = spell level × caster level × 50 gp

That is the formula for potions. For wonderous items single use we say it is : Single use, use-activated = spell level × caster level × 75 gp.