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Townopolis
2021-10-07, 01:13 AM
Please understand, this isn't to say that Arcane Recovery is bad. It's perfectly functional. It gives wizards, who basically only cast spells, more spells. It is, in fact, more spells with extra steps.

This is a matter of personal preference, and I hate Arcane Recovery.

I believe this is because I fail to recognize the feature as adding anything to the fantasy of playing a wizard. More specifically, I cannot find a satisfying abstract for what a wizard is doing when they recover these slots. Do you drink a cup of calming jasmine tea? Do you just let out a deep breath and unwind your brain? I mean, you can come up with explanations, but none of them land for me.

The base Vancian casting spell slot recovery mechanic isn't particularly satisfying itself, but it mostly gets a pass on account of it has always been that way and has been grandfathered in to what I'm okay with. And, at least when you change your spells, you're poring over a spellbook and translating the information on the page into a magical plan. Ritual casting works, particularly because the wizard version lets you cast directly from the book. Even Spell Mastery and Signature Spell are okay as fit the idea of practice making perfect as applied to spells. Though, as high level abilities, I don't think about them much.

I think I've spent too many words trying to explain my disdain for this feature. What I actually want to know, the point of this thread, is:

What can I replace it with? Something that isn't more powerful than Arcane Recovery (because Wizard doesn't need that), but isn't nothing. Something that makes your wizard feel even more wizardy than before.

Arcana expertise? At-will Identify? Countercharm, but for spell saves? Those things, your ideas, give them to me.

sithlordnergal
2021-10-07, 01:20 AM
So, I wouldn't get rid of Arcane Recovery. I get that you dislike abstract part of it, but at the same time you need it or they become even more Long Rest dependent. Every single class in the game gets something from using a Short Rest, be it Channel Divinity, Ki Points, Action Surge, Wild Shape, ect. Sorcerer is the only exception to this, and you'll find that one of the Sorcerer's problems is that they quickly run out of resources since they can't recover spell slots without spending Sorcery Points. Since the only resource Wizards have in their base class outside of HP is their spell slots, Arcane Recovery gives them a way to regain some of those spell slots on a short rest.

Go ahead and reflavor it, but I would not remove it. Otherwise Wizards have no reason to short rest, ever, and you'll just reinforce the idea of the 5 minute adventuring day.

Garfunion
2021-10-07, 01:26 AM
I always felt that “arcane recovery” should have been given to the sorcerer. And that the wizard should get something like quicken ritual; which gives the wizard the ability to ignore the additional time to cast a ritual. This of course would have a limit on it.

This way the sorcerer can go back to their roots at being able to cast a lot of spells per day. And the wizard can be the more focused ritual caster.

Anymage
2021-10-07, 02:19 AM
Prepared casters in 5e aren't pure vancian, feeling more like a 3e sorcerer who can change their spells known than a 3e wizard. And at least to me, the concept of a 3e sorcerer regaining a spell slot for reuse is not much different than a mana based mage recovering MPs.

Kane0
2021-10-07, 02:30 AM
What can I replace it with? Something that isn't more powerful than Arcane Recovery (because Wizard doesn't need that), but isn't nothing. Something that makes your wizard feel even more wizardy than before.

Arcana expertise? At-will Identify? Countercharm, but for spell saves? Those things, your ideas, give them to me.

Halve the casting time of spells and rituals with a casting time of one minute or longer

Sorinth
2021-10-07, 03:50 AM
If you want to replace it perhaps allowing them to change their prepared spell list during any SR (Not limited to 1/day). So they lose out in number of spells but gain in versatility. It's still a nerf but it doubles down on defining them as being the versatile caster and makes getting a large spellbook even that more desirable.

Another option might be to allow casting non-ritual spells as a ritual but that special ritual takes 1hr per spell level and maybe some GP cost as well.

Slider Eclipse
2021-10-07, 04:40 AM
Personally I'd swap Metamagic and Arcane Recovery if we're talking purely in terms of thematics. To me it makes far more sense for the Wizard who has studied the formulas and handcrafts each and every spell he uses each day to be able to make alterations to his spells on the fly. Meanwhile by that same Merit it makes more sense to me Thematically if the Sorcerer whom draws on his magic through raw instincts forged deep inside his very blood is able to push himself to draw out a little more Magic than most other casters.

Granted, I also find the Warlock's Pact Magic a bit off thematically so your mileage may vary on this take... and I'm honestly not sure how balanced it would be mechanically.

OvisCaedo
2021-10-07, 04:58 AM
Well, one thing to consider is that it gives wizards SOME core incentive to care about getting a short rest along with the rest of the party. It can be annoying for players when, say, only half of the party wants to or benefits from taking a rest. (though this then spirals into a much messier issue of if they "should" care and if players should be MADE to care about resting. There's a whole 'ticking clocks' debate thread right over there about whether or not GMs "should" be trying to make sure rests have a narrative cost)

At any rate, if you want to replace it, I'd probably suggest looking into something else that acts as a short rest resource or power.

Ralanr
2021-10-07, 06:50 AM
So, I wouldn't get rid of Arcane Recovery. I get that you dislike abstract part of it, but at the same time you need it or they become even more Long Rest dependent. Every single class in the game gets something from using a Short Rest, be it Channel Divinity, Ki Points, Action Surge, Wild Shape, ect. Sorcerer is the only exception to this, and you'll find that one of the Sorcerer's problems is that they quickly run out of resources since they can't recover spell slots without spending Sorcery Points. Since the only resource Wizards have in their base class outside of HP is their spell slots, Arcane Recovery gives them a way to regain some of those spell slots on a short rest.

Go ahead and reflavor it, but I would not remove it. Otherwise Wizards have no reason to short rest, ever, and you'll just reinforce the idea of the 5 minute adventuring day.

Cough Barbarian Cough

nickl_2000
2021-10-07, 07:06 AM
So, the goal here is to make something more wizard-like, so I guess we need to know what is the essence of a 5e Wizard in your mind.

For me a Wizard is about being prepared for any situation. So, here is a possibility (although I am not sure on power balance of this).

Studied Flexibility
As a master of the arcane, you have spend time studying all your spells, learning them and knowing them. Once per short rest, you may cast a spell, contained in your spellbook, that you don't have prepared. This spell uses slots as normal and must use the spell level of the spell (it may not be upcast).

Just a thought, something to add onto the flexibility that Wizards are known for. Although I am not sure if this is a Wizard subclass feature already that I am stealing from, I don't dedicate as much memory to Wizards since they are my least favorite class in the game.



Cough Barbarian Cough

Aside from subclass Rogues only get their level 20 ability back, Rangers get nothing back on a short rest in the base class, Artificers only get the ability to make a tool during a short rest. Frankly there are a lot of classes that don't much care about short rests.

kaervaak
2021-10-07, 11:25 AM
What about leaning into the "prepared for any eventuality" idea for wizards.

Minor Contingency:

At the end of a short or long rest you may choose a 1st level or lower spell that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You choose a condition upon which that spell will take effect. The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then minor contingency ends.

The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others. You can use only one spell with minor contingency at a time and the effects of using this feature multiple times does not stack. If you use minor contingency while a contingent spell is prepared, the contingent spell is replaced by the new one.

At level 11 you may prepare a 2nd level or lower spell. At level 20 you may prepare a 3rd level or lower spell.

Segev
2021-10-07, 11:45 AM
Depending on your flavor of wizard, he could have a magical potion that restores his energies that takes all night to brew and goes bad after a day, or something like that.



It would be a slight boost to the wizard's power to add this, but would let you tie the explanation together better: Once, during a short rest, you may choose to prepare a spell from your spellbook, replacing a spell you had prepared already. When you do this, you regain spell slots [as per Arcane Recovery]. When you complete a long rest, you regain this ability.

This would make the wizard more flexible than he already is, but not, I think, so excessively so as to be a major problem. Just lets him get that one clutch spell that he didn't realize he'd need.



You could reflavor it and weaken it a little, instead: When you complete a long rest and recover your spell slots, you may designate an arcane focus to contain [a number of spell slots equal to what Arcane Recovery gives back]. During a short rest, you may draw upon the arcane energies stored therein to replenish those you've spent.

This is a little weaker, because it requires you to have the arcane focus on hand and thus you can't recover the spell slots without it. On the other hand, this version as written can be done repeatedly in dribs and drabs, until it's empty, rather than a one-off recovery of all the spell slots it allows.

sithlordnergal
2021-10-07, 01:14 PM
Cough Barbarian Cough

You know, I always forget that Rage is a Long Rest ability. Though to be fair to Barbarians, they also have a ton of abilities that are always on, like Feral Instinct and Fast Movement

Ralanr
2021-10-07, 01:21 PM
You know, I always forget that Rage is a Long Rest ability. Though to be fair to Barbarians, they also have a ton of abilities that are always on, like Feral Instinct and Fast Movement

I mean...yeah, but the fact that there's nothing gained from short rest sucks. But that's not what the thread is about so I won't continue to derail.

Dork_Forge
2021-10-07, 01:46 PM
I also hate Arcane Recovery, it adds no flavour to the Wizard whatsoever and erodes whatever niche they exist in.

If it was swapped out for an actual ability, the Wizard would get an identity and the Sorcerer's identity would be more solidified.

Segev
2021-10-07, 01:57 PM
I also hate Arcane Recovery, it adds no flavour to the Wizard whatsoever and erodes whatever niche they exist in.

If it was swapped out for an actual ability, the Wizard would get an identity and the Sorcerer's identity would be more solidified.

How does it erode ... anything?

And Sorcerers' problems with identity won't be helped by wizards being made better in an orthogonal way.

Dork_Forge
2021-10-07, 02:09 PM
How does it erode ... anything?

And Sorcerers' problems with identity won't be helped by wizards being made better in an orthogonal way.

The Sorcerer is the class that can alter spells and potentially cast more spells than other classes.

Arcane Recovery erodes that by both making the Wizard the million and one spells class, and allowing them to spam slots for no real reason.

Segev
2021-10-07, 02:13 PM
The Sorcerer is the class that can alter spells and potentially cast more spells than other classes.

Arcane Recovery erodes that by both making the Wizard the million and one spells class, and allowing them to spam slots for no real reason.

Okay, but that doesn't erode the WIZARD, and the Sorcerer still would have too few spells known and per day and too few features to make up for it.


What niche do you think the wizard does or should fill, as distinct from Sorcerer?

Dork_Forge
2021-10-07, 02:25 PM
Okay, but that doesn't erode the WIZARD, and the Sorcerer still would have too few spells known and per day and too few features to make up for it.


What niche do you think the wizard does or should fill, as distinct from Sorcerer?

They should fill the role of knowing that piece of esoteric magic that fills the need of the moment:

-They should get more spell choices than most: They do

-They should be better at ritual casting than others: They are

And then that identity of the knowledgeable caster is eroded by getting more slots by default than anyone else... why?

The Wizard lacks any real inherent flavour as it currently is, because they have nothing but 'I cast spells' if AR was replaced by an actual feature, one that leaned into the knowledgeable, 'prepared for this' caster, then they'd not only be more satisfying narratively, they'd also probably be better tuned (Getting AR as a base feature on top of getting the best spell list for most things is just too much).

And the Sorcerer's spells known problem has nothing to do with identity. You're moving into balance problems, their thing is being the master of the spells they know, they just ended up with a little too few, and that isn't even all Sorcs anymore.

stoutstien
2021-10-07, 03:12 PM
Even with the newer subclasses that are really trying to hammer out a unique feeling the 5e wizard is just spell casting the class. I'm also in the camp that arcane recovery doesn't really help this problem nor does the signature spell or spell mastery. I don't no if it's ever success been argued that the wizard is not the de facto strongest class in the game or at least in the running but it goes about it in a very boring manner.

If I had it my way I would replace all of the morz spell slots/casting with actual class features but the same vein their spell list is so expansive and all encompassing it's hard to give them anything worthwhile without also addressing that.

Kane0
2021-10-07, 03:47 PM
Once per short rest you can make a scroll of a wizard spell you have prepared of spell level up to half prof bonus. This scroll can be read and cast by nonspellcasters using your spell attack/DC but loses its magic when you long rest.

KorvinStarmast
2021-10-07, 04:01 PM
Please understand, this isn't to say that Arcane Recovery is bad. It's perfectly functional. It gives wizards, who basically only cast spells, more spells. It is, in fact, more spells with extra steps. Of all the features to worry about, this isn't one of them.

One of the suggestions above, to allow
"up to this many spell levels to be swapped out during a short rest once per long rest"
(Half your level, rounded up)
is probably the best, and simplest, way to modify it to meet your thematic request.

Example: level 6 Wizard, during a short rest, swaps out three spell slots and prepares three slots worth. Next chance to do that is after the next long rest.

No added power, Yes, added flexibility.
Granted, the evoker that I DM for would find this to be a penalty.
He's all about more spell slots. He'd hate this rule.
So make it either or?

Amnestic
2021-10-07, 04:02 PM
Once per short rest you can make a scroll of a wizard spell you have prepared of spell level up to half prof bonus. This scroll can be read and cast by nonspellcasters using your spell attack/DC but loses its magic when you long rest.

Might still need to cap it at 1/LR-on-an-SR* since otherwise they could chain SRs in the morning to make multiple scrolls to dish out (which doesn't feel like the intention?) but otherwise I think it's pretty cool.

*could get an additional scroll at a later wizard level in case of multiclassing concerns

Sparky McDibben
2021-10-07, 04:55 PM
The rogue also gets nothing back on a short rest. Personally, I feel every class should have gotten something from a short rest (I houserule sorcerers get their sorcery points back on a short rest, for instance), to reduce the tension between LR and SR classes.

That being said, I feel you on Arcane Recovery. If I'm someone who gets their magic from pure magical study, how exactly does taking a breather the first time help me...but not the second?

Lokishade
2021-10-07, 04:57 PM
By making the Wizard a spontaneous caster, they created a problem.

The old vancian system made you memorize every single spell. Back in older editions, if you wanted to cast Magic Missile multiple times at a given day, your Wizard had to memorize that same spell multiple times.

It was inconvenient as all getup, but it created this easy to understand context where the magic came from the study of those arcane formulas. Reading, and most importantantly, understanding, the arcane formulas suffused your very mind with magical energy. It then made sense to key a Wizard's power to the Int score, because memory and logic were the muscles at work in here.

But now, for the sake of conveniency, the Wizard's magic was made spontaneous. Today, all the spells you've prepared are options and you can adapt and choose on the fly. But this also means that the forces that make up the magic are separate from the written formulas of spells.

In other words, the spontaneous Wizard knows all sorts of cool tricks, but he needs the juice to power them. So, just like the Sorcerer, we're stuck with the question: Where does the magic come from? If it's innate, then why isn't it keyed to constitution? If you need to harness the ambient magical energies that permeates the fantasy world, then why is the process not described?

By severing the link between the raw magic source and the formulas of the magic spells, poring over books doesn't seem intelligent. It seems like busy work. Since spell slots aren't spells anymore, I get why you just feel like doing away with the "I need to study to gain power" rituals. Because you felt it that all the traditional hallmarks of the Wizard have been transformed into pointless compulsions.

Sadly, I have no good solution to offer. Going back the ancient way would mean that the Wizard wouldn't even have cantrips because they would make sense for everyone but the Wizard. (Gods have unlimited power, so they can give the Clerics whatever they want, Warlocks are mostly the same, Druids commune with fantasy nature full of Fey magic and Bards... are Bards.)

Personally, I pretend that my Wizard studies and develops his own matrix of magic in his mind to then perform magic formulas, because I would immediately switch to Barbarian if I had to predict every spell I would need for the day.

PhoenixPhyre
2021-10-07, 05:16 PM
By making the Wizard a spontaneous caster, they created a problem.

The old vancian system made you memorize every single spell. Back in older editions, if you wanted to cast Magic Missile multiple times at a given day, your Wizard had to memorize that same spell multiple times.

It was inconvenient as all getup, but it created this easy to understand context where the magic came from the study of those arcane formulas. Reading, and most importantantly, understanding, the arcane formulas suffused your very mind with magical energy. It then made sense to key a Wizard's power to the Int score, because memory and logic were the muscles at work in here.

But now, for the sake of conveniency, the Wizard's magic was made spontaneous. Today, all the spells you've prepared are options and you can adapt and choose on the fly. But this also means that the forces that make up the magic are separate from the written formulas of spells.

In other words, the spontaneous Wizard knows all sorts of cool tricks, but he needs the juice to power them. So, just like the Sorcerer, we're stuck with the question: Where does the magic come from? If it's innate, then why isn't it keyed to constitution? If you need to harness the ambient magical energies that permeates the fantasy world, then why is the process not described?

By severing the link between the raw magic source and the formulas of the magic spells, poring over books doesn't seem intelligent. It seems like busy work. Since spell slots aren't spells anymore, I get why you just feel like doing away with the "I need to study to gain power" rituals. Because you felt it that all the traditional hallmarks of the Wizard have been transformed into pointless compulsions.

Sadly, I have no good solution to offer. Going back the ancient way would mean that the Wizard wouldn't even have cantrips because they would make sense for everyone but the Wizard. (Gods have unlimited power, so they can give the Clerics whatever they want, Warlocks are mostly the same, Druids commune with fantasy nature full of Fey magic and Bards... are Bards.)

Personally, I pretend that my Wizard studies and develops his own matrix of magic in his mind to then perform magic formulas, because I would immediately switch to Barbarian if I had to predict every spell I would need for the day.

Headcanon for 5e casting:

Spells are patterns for creating magical effects. Spell slots are bits of stored energy in the soul. Everyone[1] gets spell slots the same way (mostly by practice and focus), and spell slots are universal. But spells themselves are different and learned in different ways.

Wizards (and 1/3 casters) memorize mnemonic devices that prompt the correct soul pattern. These are encoded in their spell books. The patterns that they encode are passed down, discovered by experimentation, etc.

Sorcerers don't learn their spells at all--they're born with every spell they'll ever know encoded in their souls. For them, the struggle is performing the spells. The "trade out spells on level up" thing is a game device to make it more fun, not a universe-emulation thing.

Bards discover their patterns in the harmonies of the universe and by noodling around.

Clerics ( download their spells from a higher power. Effectively they register to call on specific patterns from their deity, but don't store the patterns locally.

Warlocks are taught their spells by a patron. The distinction between a cleric and a warlock is that the knowledge, once gained, by a warlock is forever; a cleric who falls from grace doesn't have access to them or that power any more.

Druids either work like clerics (ugh) or, as I prefer, make little bargains with nature spirits. The druid never really knows the pattern, but allows the spirit to work through them in exchange for the bit of energy. Basically teaching spirits to do tricks by feeding them energy.

Artificers see the spells encoded in/through their implements and are always experimenting.

Paladins out-stubborn the universe. They don't really learn spells at all, they just say "universe? There's a fire there." And because they're just so confident, the universe makes a fire.

Rangers either learn little tricks like nature-flavored sorcerers (ugh) or, as I prefer, act more like druids. Except their deals are more long-lasting--instead of making a deal for a day, they actually carry the spirits along with them, infusing them into their gear and their pet (if beastmaster). That's why the beastmaster pets grow with their master.

[1] Warlocks are the exception--instead of opening the slots naturally by practice and meditation and attuning the soul, theirs are ripped open by contact with their patron. Like shallow wounds, they fill quickly, but they can't maintain the full structure of them. They're an entirely artificial construct.

Man_Over_Game
2021-10-08, 03:02 PM
What about leaning into the "prepared for any eventuality" idea for wizards.

Minor Contingency:

At the end of a short or long rest you may choose a 1st level or lower spell that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You choose a condition upon which that spell will take effect. The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then minor contingency ends.

The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others. You can use only one spell with minor contingency at a time and the effects of using this feature multiple times does not stack. If you use minor contingency while a contingent spell is prepared, the contingent spell is replaced by the new one.

At level 11 you may prepare a 2nd level or lower spell. At level 20 you may prepare a 3rd level or lower spell.

I really like this. The biggest problem is that there aren't many level 1 Action spells worth casting on yourself.



I kinda like the idea of making a scroll of a spell you don't have prepared during a Short Rest, spending a spell slot for the spell when it's made, with the scroll lasting until you use the feature again or until your next Long Rest. Any ally can use the scroll with the same Action as the spell.

It adds power to both the Wizard himself (preparing spells he otherwise can't cast) and his party, but the forced spell-slot expenditure, as well as the limitation that the spell can't be one you have prepared, makes it an expensive feature to abuse.

You could add a clause that the user can't Concentrate on the spell unless it's a spell they know or is on their spell list, which cuts down on a lot of double-concentration shenanigans.

Even with few spell slots, a Wizard could get value out of making a scroll of Mage Armor or something similar that they'd likely only want to cast once, which saves them from having to prepare it.

And it's a nice little callback to the classic Vancian spellcasting where you assigned spell slots to spells.



Overall, I think it's very Wizard-like without really increasing their power level all that much. The only way it really could become overpowered is through preparation and teamwork, which are probably the best things to encourage.

kaervaak
2021-10-08, 04:12 PM
I really like this. The biggest problem is that there aren't many level 1 Action spells worth casting on yourself.



Yeah, that's true. Disguise self, expeditious retreat, false life, protection from evil and good, or mage armor seem like the best options, but aren't amazing. Getting essentially a free mage armor every day is pretty good.

What if you could prepare proficiency bonus spell levels with the max spell level being prof bonus/2 rounded down? So at 2nd level you could have 2 1st level contingent spells, at level 5 you could have a 2nd and a 1st level contingent spell (or 3 1st levels), ... until 17th level when you could have two 3rd level contingent spells. I'd definitely make it reset after a long rest with this version.

Man_Over_Game
2021-10-08, 04:53 PM
Yeah, that's true. Disguise self, expeditious retreat, false life, protection from evil and good, or mage armor seem like the best options, but aren't amazing. Getting essentially a free mage armor every day is pretty good.

What if you could prepare proficiency bonus spell levels with the max spell level being prof bonus/2 rounded down? So at 2nd level you could have 2 1st level contingent spells, at level 5 you could have a 2nd and a 1st level contingent spell (or 3 1st levels), ... until 17th level when you could have two 3rd level contingent spells. I'd definitely make it reset after a long rest with this version.

As much as I'd think it would be cool to have that, I think it'd be transitioning into "more than Wizard" territory. With level 2 or level 3 spells as options, there are definitely spells you could cast regardless of circumstances or planning.

For instance, you could make it a Mirror Image that activated on "When I'm about to be attacked", and now you've made a better defensive Short Rest feature than most classes ever get (like Second Wind).

Xihirli
2021-10-08, 08:21 PM
Why is recovering some spell slots with a short rest harder to adapt into the narrative than recovering all spell slots with a long rest?

TyGuy
2021-10-08, 09:05 PM
You know what the most quintessential wizard trope is?
The "Oh, I've seen a spell for this situation!" *flustered and panicked scrolling through pages to find the perfect answer to the current emergency*

If there's anything missing from the wizard, it's the once per day ace-up- the-sleeve casting of an unprepared spell.

Kane0
2021-10-08, 09:27 PM
Ah yes, the quickly-consult-spellbook ability. The PF Arcanist had that trick and boy was it strong.

Sigreid
2021-10-11, 10:56 PM
Personally, I go with during your short rest you meditate, channeling the arcane energy around you to rebuild store a few packets of energy so you can cast more spells.

Gamist, the purpose is to keep you from spending all of the daily spellcasting they intend you to have all in one go and have nothing to fall back on as well as giving it a little bonus flexibility.

Toadkiller
2021-10-12, 12:55 AM
I’m not sure I see the problem with wizards regaining some of the power when they take a little bit for a bio break and a juice box. Given the option I might well take the “can swap your prepared spells around” option though as that could be really useful if you guessed wrong on how the day was going to go.

Segev
2021-10-12, 10:36 AM
You could tie it to hit dice. The wizard gains spell slots equal to the number of wizard hit dice he spends on healing that short rest. Or equal to half that, perhaps. I forget if you can spend all your HD in one go.

KorvinStarmast
2021-10-13, 07:41 AM
By making the Wizard a spontaneous caster, they created a problem.

The old vancian system made you memorize every single spell. Back in older editions, if you wanted to cast Magic Missile multiple times at a given day, your Wizard had to memorize that same spell multiple times. The best illustration of that I've seen is the one about "you tie mental knots that untie as you utter the correct words perfectly" but I prefer a much simpler analogy. You charge a capacitor when you prepare a spell (Memorization is only a part of it, you are also storing it in your brain). When you let it loose, the charge is gone.

Sadly, I have no good solution to offer.
I do. Get rid of the sorcerer. (Yes I have played a couple, fun, but not necessary to the game).

Spells are patterns for creating magical effects. {snip. Interesting exposition} I guess I stumbled into the right class for your game, I have a similar idea for bardic magic.

Why is recovering some spell slots with a short rest harder to adapt into the narrative than recovering all spell slots with a long rest? It isn't. This thread's basis is a case of carping at the margins.

If there's anything missing from the wizard, it's the once per day ace-up- the-sleeve casting of an unprepared spell. See my suggestion above.

I’m not sure I see the problem with wizards regaining some of the power when they take a little bit for a bio break and a juice box. Me either. "Take five, smokes if you got 'em!" :smallcool:

heavyfuel
2021-10-13, 06:31 PM
As someone who loves Wizards beyond what might be reasonably acceptable, I actually fully agree with you, OP.

I feel like Arcane Recovery would be much better as a Sorcerer feature than a Wizard one, but since Sorcs get SP, they don't get AR (although allowing Sorcs to covert SP to Slots and back again with no loss would be better than just giving them AR).

I do think Wizards would be somewhat lackluster in comparison to other full casting classes if not for AR, so maybe give them something else in exchange.

arnin77
2021-10-13, 07:34 PM
Why is recovering some spell slots with a short rest harder to adapt into the narrative than recovering all spell slots with a long rest?

This. Whatever you’re doing on a long rest to get spell slots is what you’d do on a short rest to get 1 or 2…. No?

BloodSnake'sCha
2021-10-14, 03:35 AM
Cough Barbarian Cough

Rogue??????