Any way to optimize this weird Binder trick?

[Analytica]

This is entirely for fun. Just realized if you break requirements for a bound vestige as a binder more than once, you get additional -1 penalties each time, stacking, untyped. Meaning you could with the right vestige and the right transgression get very large negative modifiers over time.

Is there somehow a way to make someone else share penalties affecting you, so that this could be weaponized?

Again, silly and farfetched, though I am reminded of John Constantine deliberately making incompatible pacts with three demons so that they would be forced to either aid him or fight each other for primacy.

[H_H_F_F]

If you find a way, don't tell anyone - submit a build using it to the current round of the E6 competition!

[Goaty14]

Silver Tongue (OA) allows you to change the attitude between two people using your Diplomacy check. You have to be from the (human) Dragon clan, but no other prereqs.

It's not rules-legal, but if you make a diplomacy check to change the attitude of one NPC to another with a -100 on the check, I'm sure some DMs would interpret that as "well, I guess they hate each other now!"

but that's all that comes to mind.

[Khatoblepas]

Tome of Battle's Insightful Strike can, if you look at it weirdly, under the right light, could possibly be helpful here:


"As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack. If this attack hits, you do not deal normal damage. Instead, you make a Concentration check and deal damage equal to the check result. Your Strength modifier, your weapon’s magical properties (if any), and any other extra damage you normally deal do not modify this check (including extra damage from class abilities, feats, or spells)."

You roll your concentration check, get -100, and that's your damage. Normally, you would increase this to 1, as all damage has a minimum of 1, but you do not deal normal damage, and increasing it to 1 would modify the check. You could walk around, demon haunted, and strike someone in such a way that completely heals them because you're too distracted.

But it might not work, as the general rule says you do a minimum of 1 damage. BUT it does specifically say you deal damage equal to the check result and nothing else. So, who knows. No sane DM would allow it.

[aimlessPolymath]

Are there any abilities that have an effect level or duration based on how badly you failed a check or save?
One possibility that comes to mind would be finding someone with Bluff, and willingly sinking your Sense Motive into the negative forties to allow them to convince you that various 'facts' are true- you could create a set of false beliefs to fool Zone of Truth or Discern Lies.

[Doctor Despair]

Are there any abilities that have an effect level or duration based on how badly you failed a check or save?
One possibility that comes to mind would be finding someone with Bluff, and willingly sinking your Sense Motive into the negative forties to allow them to convince you that various 'facts' are true- you could create a set of false beliefs to fool Zone of Truth or Discern Lies.

I mean, your character would believe their character thinks that's true. Bluff isn't Mindrape or anything so extreme

[Analytica]

You folks already exceeded my expectations! <3

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm slowbrewing a counterspell showcase that could/might use this.

Its based around how if someone is under a sonic effect that procs a save each round, and you countersong yourself, the enemy 'must' use the result of your perform check. so, rolling low, really low, on your perform check would then make them fail all subsequent saves.

[Saintheart]

If you can find some way to put a ranged attack roll on it and put it on a throwing weapon, the Friendly Fire spell combined with the Masterslaying weapon quality would allow you to smack yourself and therefore others automatically with it.