Giving Paladin and Ranger Artificer spell progression

[Saelethil]

Just wondering what y’all think. Would it unbalance anything to give Paladins and Rangers the same spell progression as Artificers? This would mean they would get access to spells at level 1 instead of 2 and give them cantrips. This would also make Rangers into spells prepped casters.
The only real problem I can see with this would be that Paladins are already really good so cantrips might be a little much but I don’t expect it would be game breaking.

[JNAProductions]

Just wondering what y’all think. Would it unbalance anything to give Paladins and Rangers the same spell progression as Artificers? This would mean they would get access to spells at level 1 instead of 2 and give them cantrips. This would also make Rangers into spells prepped casters.
The only real problem I can see with this would be that Paladins are already really good so cantrips might be a little much but I don’t expect it would be game breaking.

It'd be a minor buff. Unlikely to break anything, though.

[Composer99]

Cantrips certainly aren't a problem, IMO. And for paladins, most of their extra oomph for having spell slots comes from divine smite. Both paladins and rangers don't have much going for them, class-feature-wise, at 1st level, so getting spell slots at 1st level also doesn't strike me as a problem.

[stoutstien]

If artificer get fighting style pick and a bump in HD size sure why.

[Segev]

Was there ever any explanation for why rangers were made into "spells known" casters instead of "prepped" casters?

[JNAProductions]

If artificer get fighting style pick and a bump in HD size sure why.

Just because something gets buffed doesn't mean everything else needs to.

I definitely think that this change is better for Rangers than Paladins, since Paladins are top-notch in terms of power, while Rangers are not. But then again, Paladin 1 is lackluster on an otherwise awesome class, so... I'd be fine with this change.

[stoutstien]

Just because something gets buffed doesn't mean everything else needs to.

I definitely think that this change is better for Rangers than Paladins, since Paladins are top-notch in terms of power, while Rangers are not. But then again, Paladin 1 is lackluster on an otherwise awesome class, so... I'd be fine with this change.

Rangers don't really start falling off until T3 either past the silly prepared caster and lack of subclass spells for php options.

I don't think taking away 1/2 of a class's identity at low levels without some compensation is fair.

[Kane0]

Well they likely won't need the fighting style that gives them a cantrip then. Expect most to pick Guidance as one of their cantrips, otherwise it's not really a major concern.

Oh, Beastmasters could spell-share a select few cantrips at higher levels but that sounds like a feature more than a bug.

[Quietus]

Well they likely won't need the fighting style that gives them a cantrip then. Expect most to pick Guidance as one of their cantrips, otherwise it's not really a major concern.

Oh, Beastmasters could spell-share a select few cantrips at higher levels but that sounds like a feature more than a bug.

I'd keep the druidic warrior/divine warrior fighting styles, but have them make it so you can add your casting stat to the damage of your Ranger/Paladin cantrips.

I don't think the Paladin needs the bump. They have enough in their kit already, even if level 1 is strictly a little thin. Rangers, however, I am fully on board with moving them to prepared casters status, they are really limited with how few spells they get currently.

Personally, I'd go with : Move Rangers to spells prepared. Leave both Ranger and Paladin spellcasting where it is. And when they get their fighting style, add a note with druidic warrior/divine warrior that if they pick a cantrip that does damage, they add their spellcasting mod to the damage dealt.

[Kane0]

Personally, I'd go with : Move Rangers to spells prepared. Leave both Ranger and Paladin spellcasting where it is. And when they get their fighting style, add a note with druidic warrior/divine warrior that if they pick a cantrip that does damage, they add their spellcasting mod to the damage dealt.

I like the sound of that, competes much better against Guidance.

[Quietus]

I like the sound of that, competes much better against Guidance.

It is a simple change, that I have wished for on my own Wisdom-heavy ranger for a while. Sadly that ranger is an AL character, so houserules are not an option.