Actor Feat and Telepathy

[carrdrivesyou]

So, I have a character in my game that, as part of their warlock pact, they gave up their voice for power. They have the Telepathic Feat, and are now wanting to take the Actor feat, but we have no idea how to handle the 3rd phrase of that feat.

"You can mimic the speech of another person or the sounds made by other creatures. You must have heard the person speaking, or heard the creature make the sound, for at least 1 minute. A successful Wisdom (Insight) check contested by your Charisma (Deception) check allows a listener to determine that the effect is faked."

Would this allow the character to alter the way their telepathic voice in someone's head sounds? Or do they just miss the benefit of the feat altogether?

[Brookshw]

I think I'd let the player make the check and have the telepathy show manifest as an external sound a'la Ghost Sounds, including the option for the voice intended to be mimic'd. Players choice if only the intended recipient hears it, or anyone in the vicinity, but give the recipient the Ghost Sound save..

[Greywander]

Well, it's open to debate if they can alter the "voice" of their telepathy at all. I generally assume they can, but others might not agree. If they can, then it would make sense that the Actor feat would apply here. However, I think there's going to be an obvious difference between verbal speech and a telepathic utterance. You won't be able to pass yourself off as another person, unless that person also communicates via telepathy. The target might hear another person's voice in their head, but it will obviously be telepathy. At most I'd think you could trick someone into thinking another person has telepathy and is talking to them, but that would be even more tricky, since you'd probably want to match what you're saying with the facial expression of the person you're imitating.

At the end of the DM, this seems like a DM call. Unfortunately, telepathy is one of those things that hasn't been fully explained how it works or what it can do, so only the DM can decide if telepathy has a "voice" or not, and how it would be affected by the Actor feat. If your DM allows it, there are probably some shenanigans you could get up to, but you might need to get a bit creative.

[Zevox]

Personally, I would probably allow them to alter the way their telepathic voice sounds, using the same skill checks described in the feat, just so that they don't lose out on that effect entirely. However, they couldn't use that to disguise that it's telepathic speech - a voice echoing through your mind just isn't going to be easily mistaken for one you're physically hearing - so its utility would be more limited than usual.

[Thunderous Mojo]

The Telepathic and Actor Feat do not have any direct synergies, that I can see.

Using the Actor feat to mimic someone or something else is s not using one's own voice.

[Ryton]

As the DM, this one is pretty much whatever you decide.

Personally I wouldn't, but that's because in my mind telepathy has a sort of psychic fingerprint that identifies each person. Daisy, the young barmaid might give a psychic impression of warm milk and honey, while Edgelord Shadestrider might leave the impression of a bloodsoaked coffin bathed in crimson moonlight. Or vice versa. I don't know what Daisy does in her spare time.

Now, in line with the idea of a psychic fingerprint, Actor may let the character try to emulate the "fingerprint" others, but since the Telepathic feat explicitly doesn't allow others to communicate back telepathically, it could be an interesting challenge for the player to find out what another person's "fingerprint" would be so that it can then be emulated.

[False God]

"You'll have your looks. Your pretty face! And don't underestimate the importance of body language!"

While I wouldn't be against allowing him to apply the 3rd element of the feat to telepathy, I'd be more inclined to rule it tightly on just audio.

[Greywander]

but since the Telepathic feat explicitly doesn't allow others to communicate back telepathically,
I believe this is how all telepathy works by default. If an ability allows the person you're communicating with to communicate back to you, then it will say so. Otherwise, telepathy is one-way.

[Ryton]

I believe this is how all telepathy works by default. If an ability allows the person you're communicating with to communicate back to you, then it will say so. Otherwise, telepathy is one-way.

Telepathy sources tend to go back and forth a bit. The Telepathic feat explicitly disallows it. Soulknife allows it. GoOlock is silent on the matter. Meanwhile, the Monster Manual says this:


Telepathy
Telepathy is a magical ability that allows a monster to communicate mentally with another creature within a specified range. The contacted creature doesn’t need to share a language with the monster to communicate in this way with it, but it must be able to understand at least one language. A creature without telepathy can receive and respond to telepathic messages but can’t initiate or terminate a telepathic conversation.[emphasis added].

PCs may not be monsters (usually), but I'd lean towards telepathy being 2-way unless stated otherwise.

[Ralanr]

I once asked my DM if I could do this when designing a character.

I had hoped to use this in Waterdeep Heist to have Xanathar's fish convince him to help us whenever we got caught by him. Sadly this didn't happen based on the month we picked. I knew very little of this module when creating my character.

I like the idea of it and figure it's creative enough. And it requires two feats to get this dumb little combo.

[Greywander]

Ah, I stand corrected, then. At least, the telepathy in monster stat blocks appears to explicitly be two-way, and it's the most common form of telepathy in the game. I do still think that two-way communication is only permitted if it explicitly says so, so GOOlock is only one-way, since it doesn't specify.

Just because one ability works a certain way doesn't mean a similar ability will work the same way. Even though generic stat block telepathy is two-way, that's because the rules specify that it is. The GOOlock's feature, and similar features that don't specify, don't grant you any abilities beyond what the text says. Awakened Mind only says it lets you speak to other creatures telepathically. While it's a reasonable inference that it might allow them to speak back, it doesn't actually say that. There's actually quite a few abilities that get mistaken as being overpowered, but it's actually because people are ascribing more to that ability than what it actually does. Like, of course you're going to think a spell or class feature is overpowered it you let it do more things than it's supposed to.

It's also worth noting that just because one ability explicitly allows something, or explicitly disallows something, that isn't necessarily an indication of a general rule. Monster telepathy explicitly allows two-way communication, so one might infer the general rule is that telepathy is one-way. But the Telepathic feat explicitly disallows two-way communication, which would indicate that two-way is default. The fact is, neither of these is really an indication of a general rule; one is a reminder of the general rule, and the other is an exception to the general rule, but figuring out which is which is the hard part. That's why you can't rely on specific features in order to extract a general rule. I think this has also been mentioned in regard to Battle Master maneuvers; just because they have a maneuver to disarm someone doesn't mean anyone can't attempt a disarm, the Battle Master just has special rules that make a disarm easier.

[theNater]

They gave up their voice for power, but they didn't give up other people's voices for power.

I'd say they can now speak verbally, but they must mimic someone else when they do.

If you're worried that this negates the bargain, you could warn them that overusing this loophole might lead to their patron also beginning to look for exploitable loopholes.

[animewatcha]

From the moment the pact was struck, PC speech patterns become like that of a kenku. Nothing before said pact was struck is useable unless 'it was repeated' after pact was struck.

[Foolwise]

Does the player have access to Minor Illusion? It can produce sounds. So rough spitball- the PC telepathically mimics the speech in the target's head, while mouthing the words themself, while Minor Illusion creates a speech-like sound in the target's ear to confuse the target's brain that the speech wasn't made telepathically.

Extremely convoluted. Minor Illusion requires the PC's action. Mouthing words should be a free action. Not sure if telepathy reqs an action or if Minor Illusion's casting reqs would give up the game.

[Man_Over_Game]

Does the player have access to Minor Illusion? It can produce sounds. So rough spitball- the PC telepathically mimics the speech in the target's head, while mouthing the words themself, while Minor Illusion creates a speech-like sound in the target's ear to confuse the target's brain that the speech wasn't made telepathically.

Extremely convoluted. Minor Illusion requires the PC's action. Mouthing words should be a free action. Not sure if telepathy reqs an action or if Minor Illusion's casting reqs would give up the game.

More on this, there is at least one module where an NPC uses Minor Illusion to imitate conversation, Princes of the Apocalypse I think.

So it's possible, it just depends on how much your DM would let you get away with.