Half-Orc Hexer?

[Saintheart]

Indulge me.

Half-orc racial entry: "Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc. Half-orcs, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect orcs as their orc ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by orcs."

Hexer prestige class (MoTW) prerequisite:

"Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll."

Is a prestige class prerequisite traditionally considered an 'effect related to race'?

[SangoProduction]

I would say yes.

[thorr-kan]

Yes, yes it is. Finding a divine lightning bolt is more problematic: there's adept, shugenja, maybe archivist, and there's an obscure Dragon Magazine domain the grants the Lightning Bolt spell, but darned if I can remember it.

Found it: Dragon #290, Thunder domain; granted by Perun at 3rd-level.

[Anthrowhale]

Yes, yes it is. Finding a divine lightning bolt is more problematic: there's adept, shugenja, maybe archivist, and there's an obscure Dragon Magazine domain the grants the Lightning Bolt spell, but darned if I can remember it.

Found it: Dragon #290, Thunder domain; granted by Perun at 3rd-level.

There's also the Arcane Disciple Cleric (Dragon #311) and the Alternate Source Spell feat with an arcane spellcaster.

Wilderness Lore should also probably be interpreted as Survival in a 3.5 context. That's a fun one. It looks like it's possible to achieve both naturally via a cleric taking the thunder domain and the Wanderer ACF in Dragon #353. The next best entry probably has divine lightning bolt natively and bounces off a prestige class like Singe of Concordance or Ruathar.

[mattie_p]

Southern Magician deserves a mention. Even though no one is sure how it works, it will probably help.

[Anthrowhale]

Southern Magician deserves a mention. Even though no one is sure how it works, it will probably help.

You would need to take the Human Heritage feat as well.

[Seerow]

Yes, yes it is. Finding a divine lightning bolt is more problematic: there's adept, shugenja, maybe archivist, and there's an obscure Dragon Magazine domain the grants the Lightning Bolt spell, but darned if I can remember it.

Found it: Dragon #290, Thunder domain; granted by Perun at 3rd-level.

If you go spontaneous cleric or favored soul, dragonblood spell pact to trade spells known with a sorcerer is my preferred way to pick up lightning bolt

[Thurbane]

Hexers are a bit of an obsession of mine.

Here's two threads that discuss various entry methods (many have been covered already): Divine Lightning Bolt (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?204476) / Divine Lightning Bolt Part II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605823)

Kinvig Arrumskor is a competition entry in my sig that was based on Hexer.

[Saintheart]

Hexers are a bit of an obsession of mine.

Must be an Australian thing. (Or because the prereqs are pleasantly frustrating and it's a really flavorful class.) I've been looking at this class for a while now trying to think up meaningful builds for it. I really like that Iron Chef build, finding a monstrous humanoid is probably the more feasible way of doing this, but I might keep sanding away at this a while more and see what I can find.

Without dipping into Dragon options the most plausible builds to me seem to be a Shugenja start, then supplement with Contemplative and/or Divine Oracle to keep the casting going, taking Travel domain somewhere on the way, then switch to Hexer ... or alternatively eat a level of Sorcerer to start with and suck up 3-4 feats to get Topaz Dragon heritage, as said. Maybe Frostblood Half-Orc because of the dragon connections. But as said I'll keep looking.

[thorr-kan]

If you're willing to wait for late entry, Adept Caster Level 8, using some prestige class shenanigans can give some great abilities to a PC and finish with Hexer from level 8ish to 18ish. I can expand suggestions, if one wishes.

[Saintheart]

If you're willing to wait for late entry, Adept Caster Level 8, using some prestige class shenanigans can give some great abilities to a PC and finish with Hexer from level 8ish to 18ish. I can expand suggestions, if one wishes.

Sure, why not.

[Anthrowhale]

Oh, Thurbane's second thread gives me an idea:

Sha'ir 3/Geomancer 4/Hexer 10

using membership level 3 in the Paragnostic Assembly for Knowledge[Nature] as a class skill to qualify for Geomancer. Access to Hexer with no spell delay and no feats :smallsmile:

[Saintheart]

Oh, Thurbane's second thread gives me an idea:

Sha'ir 3/Geomancer 4/Hexer 10

using membership level 3 in the Paragnostic Assembly for Knowledge[Nature] as a class skill to qualify for Geomancer. Access to Hexer with no spell delay and no feats :smallsmile:

Two problems I can see, or maybe I'm missing the workarounds:

(1) Sha'ir can't cast all divine spells, only those from specific domains. As you'd expect, Thunder domain isn't one of them, and nothing else has lightning bolt. ... oh wait I see now. He gathers lightning bolt as an arcane spell.

(2) Does Geomancer actually allow you to cast an arcane spell as divine? Strikes me as a stretch of RAW, albeit still maybe RAW: "He still acquires and prepares his spells in the normal manner for his individual spellcasting classes. When he casts them, however, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for any spell with a spell level equal to or less than his spell versatility score." ... I can see how you can use that, but given you still have to acquire and prepare your spells in the normal manner, does it allow you to cast arcane as divine?

[Anthrowhale]

(2) Does Geomancer actually allow you to cast an arcane spell as divine? Strikes me as a stretch of RAW, albeit still maybe RAW: "He still acquires and prepares his spells in the normal manner for his individual spellcasting classes. When he casts them, however, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for any spell with a spell level equal to or less than his spell versatility score." ... I can see how you can use that, but given you still have to acquire and prepare your spells in the normal manner, does it allow you to cast arcane as divine?

I guess, the question is: "Is whether or not a spell is divine or arcane a parameter of the spell?" It seems like the answer is clearly yes given that it affects many game dynamics directly (entry into hexer obviously, but also ethergaunt immunity to spells, the divine denial feat, etc...). I think you cannot play the game correctly without knowing whether a spell is divine or not, and so it is a parameter in the sense used here.

[Thurbane]

Neaderthal should qualify as "another primitive race", and can access Southern Magician (if you can swing a caveman meeting regional reqs), if you wanted entry as an arcane caster.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

"Effect" is an undefined term in 3.5*, so there's no strict RAW answer beyond "Ask your DM". I'd allow it.

* The SRD conflates the term with "condition"... which is also undefined beyond the notorious FAQ answer that defined it so broadly Warblades could use Iron Heart Surge to shut off the Sun.

[thorr-kan]

Sure, why not.

I was a little off; Hexer comes online at 10th or 11th level.

I've tinkered a lot with this guy, the idea being to take an NPC class and use prestige classes to make him as effective as possible.

Martel One-eye, called The Hammer

LN Half-orc Religious Adept of Wee Jas (Inquisition Domain) 4/Church Inquisitor 2/Master of Shrouds 3/Hexer 1

Racial Variant: Frostblood half-orc for cold stuff and Endurance, or desert half-orc for heat stuff and Run?

Template: Amphibious, Stormwrack pg. 135 and Magic-Blooded (AKA Spark), Dragon 306 pg. 64.

Starting Feats: God Touched, Divine Channeler, Light Armor Proficiency
Starting Flaws: Frail, Murky-eyed
3rd Level - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
6th Level - Retrain 2nd Inquisition domain for Magic or Domination? domain.
6th Level - Augment Summoning
9th Level - Extra Turning or Domain Spontaneity (Domination)?

RELIGIOUS ADEPT - base class.
1st (1st character) Level - Adept 1 (CL1), Inquisition domain.
2nd (2nd character) Level - Adept 2 (CL2).
3rd (3rd character) Level - Adept 3 (CL3).
4th (4th character) Level - Adept 4 (CL4).

CHURCH INQUISITOR - qualifies after adept 4; CompDivine.
Alignment: LG or LN.
Base Save Bonus: Will +3.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast zone of truth as a divine spell. (Adept 4)
Special: Must be a member of a LG church or religious order, and must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization.
1st (5th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL5), detect evil, Inquisition domain.
2nd (6th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL6), immune to charms.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 2; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
1st (7th character) Level - extra rebuking, rebuke undead.
2nd (8th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL7), summon undead (shadow).
3rd (9th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL8).

HEXER - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 2/master of shrouds 3; Masters of the Wild.
Race: Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10, Spellcraft 8, Survival 10 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell. (Adept 8)
1st (10th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL9), hex 1/day.

Martel One-eye, called The Hammer

LN Half-orc Religious Adept of Wee Jas (Inquisition Domain) 2/Expert 1/Master of Shrouds 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Master of Shrouds 2/Hexer 1

Racial Variant: Frostblood half-orc for cold stuff and Endurance, or desert half-orc for heat stuff and Run?

Template: Amphibious, Stormwrack pg. 135 and Magic-Blooded (AKA Spark), Dragon 306 pg. 64.

Starting Feats: God Touched, Divine Channeler, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Starting Flaws: Frail, Murky-eyed
3rd Level - Augment Summoning
6th Level - Extra Turning
8th Level - Retrain 2nd Inquisition domain for Magic or Domination? domain.
9th Level - Domain Spontaneity (Domination)?

RELIGIOUS ADEPT - base class, DMG.
1st (1st character) Level - Adept 1 (CL1).
2nd (2nd character) Level - Adept 2 (CL2).

EXPERT - base class, DMG.
3rd (3rd character) Level - Light Armor Proficiency, select 10 class skills, 6+INT skill points/level.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after adept 2/expert 1; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
1st (4th character) Level - extra rebuking, rebuke undead.
2nd (5th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL3), summon undead (shadow).
3rd (6th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL4).

CHURCH INQUISITOR - qualifies after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3; CompDivine.
Alignment: LG or LN.
Base Save Bonus: Will +3.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast zone of truth as a divine spell. (Adept 4)
Special: Must be a member of a LG church or religious order, and must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization.
1st (7th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL5), detect evil, Inquisition domain.
2nd (8th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL6), immune to charms.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3/church inquisitor 2; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
4th (9th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL7), summon undead (wraith).
5th (10th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL8), improved summoning.

HEXER - qualifies after after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3/church inquisitor 2/master of shrouds 2; Masters of the Wild.
Race: Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10, Spellcraft 8, Survival 10 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell. (Adept 8)
1st (11th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL9), hex 1/day.

Martel One-eye, called The Hammer

LN Half-orc Religious Adept of Wee Jas (Inquisition Domain) 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Master of Shrouds 4/Hexer 1

Racial Variant: Frostblood half-orc for cold stuff and Endurance, or desert half-orc for heat stuff and Run?

Template: Amphibious, Stormwrack pg. 135 and Magic-Blooded (AKA Spark), Dragon 306 pg. 64.

Starting Feats: God Touched, Divine Channeler, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Starting Flaws: Frail, Murky-eyed
3rd Level - Augment Summoning
6th Level - Retrain 2nd Inquisition domain for Magic or Domination? domain.
6th Level - Light Armor Proficiency
9th Level - Extra Turning or Domain Spontaneity (Domination)?

RELIGIOUS ADEPT - base class.
1st (1st character) Level - Adept 1 (CL1), Inquisition domain.
2nd (2nd character) Level - Adept 2 (CL2).
3rd (3rd character) Level - Adept 3 (CL3).
4th (4th character) Level - Adept 4 (CL4).

CHURCH INQUISITOR - qualifies after adept 4; CompDivine.
Alignment: LG or LN.
Base Save Bonus: Will +3.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast zone of truth as a divine spell. (Adept 4)
Special: Must be a member of a LG church or religious order, and must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization.
1st (5th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL5), detect evil, Inquisition domain.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 1; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
1st (6th character) Level - extra rebuking, rebuke undead.
2nd (7th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL6), summon undead (shadow).
3rd (8th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL7).
4th (9th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL8), summon undead (wraith).

HEXER - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 1/master of shrouds 4 ; Masters of the Wild.
Race: Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10, Spellcraft 8, Survival 10 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell. (Adept 8)
1st (10th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL9), hex 1/day.

Martel One-eye, called The Hammer

LN Half-orc Religious Adept of Wee Jas (Inquisition Domain) 4/Church Inquisitor 2/Master of Shrouds 3/Hexer 1

Racial Variant: Frostblood half-orc for cold stuff and Endurance, or desert half-orc for heat stuff and Run?

Template: Amphibious, Stormwrack pg. 135 and Magic-Blooded (AKA Spark), Dragon 306 pg. 64.

Starting Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Starting Flaws: Frail, Murky-eyed
3rd Level - Augment Summoning
6th Level - Heretic of the Faith (Necromancy)
7th Level - Retrain 2nd Inquisition domain for Necromancy domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting); grants turn undead.
9th Level - Light Armor Proficiency

RELIGIOUS ADEPT - base class.
1st (1st character) Level - Adept 1 (CL1), Inquisition domain.
2nd (2nd character) Level - Adept 2 (CL2).
3rd (3rd character) Level - Adept 3 (CL3).
4th (4th character) Level - Adept 4 (CL4).

CHURCH INQUISITOR - qualifies after adept 4; CompDivine.
Alignment: LG or LN.
Base Save Bonus: Will +3.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast zone of truth as a divine spell. (Adept 4)
Special: Must be a member of a LG church or religious order, and must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization.
1st (5th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL5), detect evil, Inquisition domain.
2nd (6th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL6), immune to charms.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 2; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
1st (7th character) Level - extra rebuking, rebuke undead.
2nd (8th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL7), summon undead (shadow).
3rd (9th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL8).

HEXER - qualifies after adept 4/church inquisitor 2/master of shrouds 3; Masters of the Wild.
Race: Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10, Spellcraft 8, Survival 10 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell. (Adept 8)
1st (10th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL9), hex 1/day.

Martel One-eye, called The Hammer

LN Half-orc Religious Adept of Wee Jas (Inquisition Domain) 2/Expert 1/Master of Shrouds 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Master of Shrouds 2/Hexer 1

Racial Variant: Frostblood half-orc for cold stuff and Endurance, or desert half-orc for heat stuff and Run?

Template: Amphibious, Stormwrack pg. 135 and Magic-Blooded (AKA Spark), Dragon 306 pg. 64.

Starting Feats: God Touched, Divine Channeler, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Starting Flaws: Frail, Murky-eyed
3rd Level - Augment Summoning
6th Level - Extra Turning
8th Level - Retrain 2nd Inquisition domain for Magic or Domination? domain.
9th Level - Domain Spontaneity (Domination)?

RELIGIOUS ADEPT - base class, DMG.
1st (1st character) Level - Adept 1 (CL1).
2nd (2nd character) Level - Adept 2 (CL2).

EXPERT - base class, DMG.
3rd (3rd character) Level - Light Armor Proficiency, select 10 class skills, 6+INT skill points/level.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after adept 2/expert 1; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
1st (4th character) Level - extra rebuking, rebuke undead.
2nd (5th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL3), summon undead (shadow).
3rd (6th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL4).

CHURCH INQUISITOR - qualifies after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3; CompDivine.
Alignment: LG or LN.
Base Save Bonus: Will +3.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast zone of truth as a divine spell. (Adept 4)
Special: Must be a member of a LG church or religious order, and must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization.
1st (7th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL5), detect evil, Inquisition domain.
2nd (8th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL6), immune to charms.

MASTER OF SHROUDS - qualifies after after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3/church inquisitor 2; Libris Mortis.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Base Save Bonus: Will +5.
Skills: Concentration 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration).
Spells: Able to cast protection from good as a divine spell. (Adept 1)
Special: Able to rebuke undead.
4th (9th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL7), summon undead (wraith).
5th (10th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL8), improved summoning.

HEXER - qualifies after after adept 2/expert 1/master of shrouds 3/church inquisitor 2/master of shrouds 2; Masters of the Wild.
Race: Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10, Spellcraft 8, Survival 10 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell. (Adept 8)
1st (11th character) Level - +1 level of spell caster (CL9), hex 1/day.

[Saintheart]

I like them!

Leaving aside the entry paths, though, I think it is still worth remembering that it's still niche. Full BAB and spell casting are big draws, sure, but the class abilities come down to 5 Sor/Wiz spells and a few evil eye debuffs. I don't doubt these are really good for the right build, it's just working out which and then optimising Spell-like abilities in the case of the hexes.

I think I feel another handbook coming on.

[Kaleph]

The class that easily qualifies for the spellcasting requirement is UA's generic spellcaster, although it may be find a DM allowing it for a standard game, i.e. a game where the "normal" base classes are allowed. You may find application for it if you simply refluff it as a "different magical tradition", that is available in some isolated cultures.

[Saintheart]

Footnote - Shadow Evocation in theory allows one to cast Lightning Bolt. It's a Bard 5 spell, and UA Divine Bards cast all the bard spell list as divine spells.

[Thurbane]

I think I feel another handbook coming on.

This would be great. I'd be happy to throw in some ideas and feedback if/when you get around to it. :smallsmile:

[Saintheart]

This would be great. I'd be happy to throw in some ideas and feedback if/when you get around to it. :smallsmile:

I'll be sending you the draft for edits! :) :)

[danielxcutter]

Apprentice(woodsman) gives K: Nature and Survival as a class skill, so that could help.

Actually, I think you could have fun on the DM side of this by using the nonassociated class features. For example, centaurs have Survival as a class skill for their RHD. You could have a Centaur Ranger 1/Shugenja 6+/Hexer X that'd just get 9th-level spells at CR 20, and 18 BAB. Powerful? Probably not that much. But it'd probably be quite an interesting fight.

[Saintheart]

Apprentice(woodsman) gives K: Nature and Survival as a class skill, so that could help.

Actually, I think you could have fun on the DM side of this by using the nonassociated class features. For example, centaurs have Survival as a class skill for their RHD. You could have a Centaur Ranger 1/Shugenja 6+/Hexer X that'd just get 9th-level spells at CR 20, and 18 BAB. Powerful? Probably not that much. But it'd probably be quite an interesting fight.

I'll have to look at monster skills as well for this now!