Appropriate mystical gift for a eunuch?

[redking]

We know that Varys from Game of Thrones lost his junk in an occult ritual and the mage tormenting him gained some power from it.

Assuming the castration was self inflicted, what would a suitable reward be for permanently becoming a eunuch? I am speaking in terms of magical gifts or power. I'm thinking "flaw", but having your junk cut off seems far worse than the other flaws in 3.5. Here is Varys telling.


As a boy, in Myr, I traveled with a troupe of actors through the Free Cities. One day, a man approached my master with an offer too tempting to refuse. I feared the man meant to use me, as I'd heard some men use small boys, but what he wanted was far worse. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a hooked blade, he sliced me, root and stem, chanting all the while. He burned my parts on a brazier; the flames burned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call. I still dream of that night. Not of the sorcerer, not of his blade...I dream of the voice. Was it a god? A demon? Some conjurer's trick? I don't know but the sorcerer called, and a voice answered. And ever since that day, I have hated magic, and all who practice it. But, you can see why I was eager to aide in your fight against Stannis and his Red Priestess. A symbolic revenge, of sorts.

What do you give? Assume say LA 2 or 3.

[Psyren]

I'm thinking "flaw", but having your junk cut off seems far worse than the other flaws in 3.5.

Why? Honest question. D&D has no mechanics tied to the presence or absence of your "trouser titan" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html).

In a chauvinist setting like Westeros, where eununchs are seen as less masculine and therefore less valuable to society, you could probably impose some kind of interaction penalty (certainly to Intimidate), but thats more a function of their backward society than anything biological. And none of the official D&D settings are, to my knowledge, as regressive as Westeros when it comes to issued of gender and sex. So this is my longwinded way of saying any penalties would be specific to the setting you're playing in and it'd cultural norms, not to the actual anatomy being removed.

[Buufreak]

Why? Honest question. D&D has no mechanics tied to the presence or absence of your "trouser titan" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html).

In a chauvinist setting like Westeros, where eununchs are seen as less masculine and therefore less valuable to society, you could probably impose some kind of interaction penalty (certainly to Intimidate), but thats more a function of their backward society than anything biological. And none of the official D&D settings are, to my knowledge, as regressive as Westeros when it comes to issued of gender and sex. So this is my longwinded way of saying any penalties would be specific to the setting you're playing in and it'd cultural norms, not to the actual anatomy being removed.

This is one of the best written responses I have seen in the forums. Kudos, and ditto. Besides the rather rare prestige class, I'm not aware of anything in game that cares about sex or gender, be they that which you were assigned at birth, what you identify as, or what your wedding tackle happens to be. Suddenly having a part of your body removed that plays zero parts mechanically to begin with should have at most subtle but altogether meaningless effects.

[redking]

So this is my longwinded way of saying any penalties would be specific to the setting you're playing in and it'd cultural norms, not to the actual anatomy being removed.

My question was what benefits might a eunuch receive from being maimed in an occult and magical ritual. I'm not talking about an accident with faulty zipper here.

When I say I am thinking of flaws, I am referring to the D&D mechanics and the list of flaws here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm). Becoming a eunuch is far more serious than this list of flaws, so the benefits should be commensurate with the seriousness of the maiming. That is why I suggested that it might be worth the equivalent of LA 2 or 3.

It's nothing to do with cultural norms of anywhere but rather fantasy tropes that come from real history (https://apnews.com/article/f4196787b1d7b61b68c254afc29b82a7).

If you don't think a eunuch could be endowed with some additional mystical ability in a fantasy setting, I don't know what to say.

[Wintermoot]

My question was what benefits might a eunuch receive from being maimed in an occult and magical ritual. I'm not talking about an accident with faulty zipper here.

When I say I am thinking of flaws, I am referring to the D&D mechanics and the list of flaws here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm). Becoming a eunuch is far more serious than this list of flaws, so the benefits should be commensurate with the seriousness of the maiming. That is why I suggested that it might be worth the equivalent of LA 2 or 3.

It's nothing to do with cultural norms of anywhere but rather fantasy tropes that come from real history (https://apnews.com/article/f4196787b1d7b61b68c254afc29b82a7).

If you don't think a eunuch could be endowed with some additional mystical ability in a fantasy setting, I don't know what to say.

You aren't listening to the feedback being given to you.

The Flaws listed all present as some game-level mechanical penalty that is the offset for whatever bonus you get for it (usually a feat).

So what game-level mechanical penalty are you giving the eunuch for his self-castration?

The benefit will correspond with whatever penalty you decide that the hackenating gives to the hackenator/hackenatee.

[daremetoidareyo]

I don't think you should bake a hard and fast rule into it.

Here's why:

An individual player choosing to play a eunuch is playing such a character for a specific reason. It's a chance to explore something interesting to them. But exactly what is interesting requires some conversation. If it's a player that wants to explore something similar to stuff in their real lived experience, just giving them a free feat or benefit won't scratch the itch unless it aligns with their vision of the character. If it's a story exploring a lack of reproductive capacity that the player wants to dig into, then that's going to be different than a story.

i think the reason that you are being discouraged from pursuing this is multi-fold, but what stands out to me is the idea that there is some sort of just recompense for enduring a bodily change of this magnitude. And yes, there are many cultural traditions that ascribed different senses of 'mystical-ness' to non-conforming gender/body types. But codifying such things in rules naturally pigeonholes the desired play experience of someone who wants to explore this stuff as a PC. If you're granting a caster level boost, you're impinging on a martial character with this backstory.

Plus, there's this implication of insufficiency due to a lack of a specific bit of "wedding tackle" (great turn of phrase) which naturally begs the question: Why don't female characters get free boons?

[satorian]

Psyren is basically right, as far the cultural factor in your world is concerned. The answer is necessarily arbitrary here.

A possibility: You determine that there is something inherent about junk-losing, and merely junk-losing is sufficient to gain X power. What that power is... entirely arbitrary. You could decide it's a bonus to bluff and sense motive, to copy Game of Thrones. Or you could give him a symbiotic business-maker from the Far Realms, tentacles and all. Or heck, you could give him a 3/day SLA Wish. It's arbitrary, and more to do with the ritual used to remove the purple worm than the removal itself.

That said, if you really want to give a meaningful game effect, I guess a template would be the easiest thing. Was the ritual a potent shadow magic ritual? Give Dark or Shadow template. Psionic? Phrenic. Along those lines. But to reiterate, what it's worth can only be determined in-game, and would have to do with the magic of ritual cutting, not the mere fact of being cut.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you really wanted to do something along these lines, well, pick a flaw I guess and say the wound gave negative consequences.

Then give the character a bonus feat due to having a flaw.

[Troacctid]

OA gives eunuchs access to free metamagic. So, there you go. Of course you have to take levels in the eunuch prestige class, but eh.

[icefractal]

Since it's a change that mechanically has little effect but IC is a big deal, what about a benefit that's the same? Immortality without age bonuses, for example - IC it's a big deal and people would kill for it, mechanically it changes very little.

[Analytica]

Oriental Adventures has the "Eunuch Warlock" prestige class. So there is at least one official answer.

I would be more inclined to make a prestige class based on the Gallae priestesses of Cybele. It would advance divine casting and probably look much like the Celebrant of Sharess.

[redking]

A trait might work better than a flaw. This is for spellcasters. Unsullied (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Unsullied) can be handled differently.

Eunuch Mage (or Temple Eunuch):
You have been castrated as part of a magical or religious ritual.
Benefit: You cast spells from any spellcasting class at +1 caster level. In addition, you may select any feat for which you qualify as a bonus feat at 1st level and Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you.
Drawback: Your body has been weakened by being maimed. -1 to fortitude saves and -2 to saves against fear effects.

[Psyren]

A trait might work better than a flaw. This is for spellcasters. Unsullied (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Unsullied) can be handled differently.

Eunuch Mage (or Temple Eunuch):
You have been castrated as part of a magical or religious ritual.
Benefit: You cast spells from any spellcasting class at +1 caster level. In addition, you may select any feat for which you qualify as a bonus feat at 1st level and Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you.
Drawback: Your body has been weakened by being maimed. -1 to fortitude saves and -2 to saves against fear effects.

Why would he be more afraid if he willingly did this to himself? Or is this some puerile equation of specific genitals to courage?

This is what I'm trying to get at, by having you stop and think about the implications behind your proposed mechanics. And you're also implying that anyone who has this kind of procedure done is permanently weaker/less hearty, which has additional problems.

If you're set on tying mechanics to genitals, you should first stop and consider what genitals represent mechancally, and why you think that. And if it's more about the ritual itself, I'd queston why it has to be genitals at all, rather than sacrificing say, fingers or toes or an eye.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Honestly, the best mystical gift to give to a eunuch is a regenerate spell.

[redking]

Why would he be more afraid if he willingly did this to himself? Or is this some puerile equation of specific genitals to courage?

The character isn't "more afraid", simply more prone to fear effects as embodied by the minus 2 to fear saving throws.


This is what I'm trying to get at, by having you stop and think about the implications behind your proposed mechanics. And you're also implying that anyone who has this kind of procedure done is permanently weaker/less hearty, which has additional problems.

I am not implying anything, unless there are real people out there making fortitude and fear effect saving throws. I see where you are going with this now. You have boorishly connected my fantasy mystical eunuch to completely non-mystical gender identity issues OOC.


If you're set on tying mechanics to genitals, you should first stop and consider what genitals represent mechancally, and why you think that. And if it's more about the ritual itself, I'd queston why it has to be genitals at all, rather than sacrificing say, fingers or toes or an eye.

The flaws in D&D 3.5 are only vaguely connected mechanically in the game to the condition. I think mine is as least as well thought out as those. As for the why of the mystic eunuch, its in my OP. If I was thinking about a diviner taking his eye out to be like Odin, I would have mentioned that. It seems like you are saying that I shouldn't have eunuchs at all in my game because there is OOC things that you worry about and think shouldn't be permitted.


Honestly, the best mystical gift to give to a eunuch is a regenerate spell.

That should work just fine for someone maimed in an accident. But in the case of an occult ritual, it should be more difficult, like overturning a faustian pact (which is likely, as you can see in the OP). Maybe wish or miracle, and being thus healed would mean that they would lose the benefits of being a mystic eunuch.

[Troacctid]

The flaws in D&D 3.5 are only vaguely connected mechanically in the game to the condition.
What? How do you figure?

[redking]

What? How do you figure?

You missed the next part in your quote.


The flaws in D&D 3.5 are only vaguely connected mechanically in the game to the condition. I think mine is as least as well thought out as those.


Meager Fortitude
You are sickly and weak of stomach.

Effect
You take a -3 penalty on Fortitude saves.


Eunuch Mage (or Temple Eunuch):
You have been castrated as part of a magical or religious ritual.
Benefit: You cast spells from any spellcasting class at +1 caster level. In addition, you may select any feat for which you qualify as a bonus feat at 1st level and Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you.
Drawback: Your body has been weakened by being maimed. -1 to fortitude saves and -2 to saves against fear effects.

A nitpicker would argue that being sickly and weak of stomach has nothing to do with other aspects of fortitude (in the real world). Since we are talking a fantasy game and not real life medicine, there is no reason to nitpick and my drawbacks make just as much sense as the drawbacks in the SRD.

[Troacctid]

You missed the next part in your quote.

A nitpicker would argue that being sickly and weak of stomach has nothing to do with other aspects of fortitude (in the real world). Since we are talking a fantasy game and not real life medicine, there is no reason to nitpick and my drawbacks make just as much sense as the drawbacks in the SRD.
A nitpicker would suck at picking nits. The flaw called "Meager Fortitude" penalizes your Fortitude. You are sickly and weak of stomach, so you have trouble defending against attacks that target your vitality and health. What doesn't make sense about that?

[OracleofWuffing]

Assuming the castration was self inflicted, what would a suitable reward be for permanently becoming a eunuch? I am speaking in terms of magical gifts or power. I'm thinking "flaw", but having your junk cut off seems far worse than the other flaws in 3.5.
Pick a prestige class that requires you to go on a quest or be part of a certain group or some sort of non-crunch prerequisite. You now qualify for that prerequisite, though you must fulfill all other requirements to proceed in that prestige class. Should the ritual be undone through whatever means, you lose all class features of the prestige class outside of Base Attack Bonus and Saves until the ritual is re-ritual-ed. Multiple simultaneous rituals do not stack and you only retain the benefits of the first ritual, don't ask me why I feel like that clause is necessary.

Sorry it's not too specific or powerful, and not really "official" sounding, but that's probably the fairest blanket statement I can come up with. In my experience, remaining intact is usually fluff, so the benefit should be fluff-based.

[Buufreak]

The character isn't "more afraid", simply more prone to fear effects as embodied by the minus 2 to fear saving throws.

How are you not understanding that these two things are the same thing?

Also, why would willfully losing ones genitals make them a coward? If anything, you should be looking at willing deformity, that simply gives +3 to intimidate.

[redking]

Sorry it's not too specific or powerful, and not really "official" sounding, but that's probably the fairest blanket statement I can come up with. In my experience, remaining intact is usually fluff, so the benefit should be fluff-based.

I feel like castration is the in-game inverse of immortality. Plenty of players are willing to spend their PC's gold and effort for immortality, something which has no mechanical effect. All the player gets is satisfaction for in-game fluff.

Since castration isn't exactly sought after like immortality and effectively the inverse, mystic eunuchs should get some sort of mechanical benefit because in-game the PC will not be able to have children and may be looked down upon by other people. That's hardly the heroic ideal for a PC so there should be a measure of recompense.

Unfortunately I seem to have stumbled upon a landmine in which some people in this thread are linking mystic eunuchs with gender reassignment surgery. Mystic eunuchs are nothing to do with that and don't have gender identity issues. It's completely different and I'm baffled that people would draw a comparison.

[OracleofWuffing]

That's heavily table-dependent, though. There are plenty of character concepts that don't care one bit what children and other people think of them, as well as concepts that don't want to be heroic at all. Murderhoboes gonna murderhobo, after all. Even if a character does care, is it that hard within D&D to hide? I mean, sure, scrying and whatnot, but that's going to apply to any old secret a character has... Should I get a +2 Bluff because I cheated on a spelling test in school once some years ago, because someone might find out today and shame me for it?

How has the ability to have children impacted your past games?

Likewise, immortality is trivial in certain tables...

[redking]

How has the ability to have children impacted your past games?

In a game in which I was a player another PC chaotic neutral cleric of Talos got a barmaid pregnant and when the baby came along refused to take responsibility. This became a theme for this cleric as it happened multiple times. I suspect that had he been a eunuch cleric of Talos that would not have happened.

[Khedrac]

Eunuch Mage (or Temple Eunuch):
You have been castrated as part of a magical or religious ritual.
Benefit: You cast spells from any spellcasting class at +1 caster level. In addition, you may select any feat for which you qualify as a bonus feat at 1st level and Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you.
Drawback: Your body has been weakened by being maimed. -1 to fortitude saves and -2 to saves against fear effects.

Personally I don't think this is balanced. Ignoring whether it makes sense or not (I wish nothing to do with that debate) I think the benefits greatly outweigh the drawbacks:

Benefits:
* You cast spells from any spellcasting class at +1 caster level
- +1 caster level to one class woud be a very stong feat and this is to all classes (uncapped too) - I think this worth more than 99% of feats, in fact it is probably worth more than 2 feats (few characters have more than 2 spellcasting classes)
* Select any feat for which you qualify as a bonus feat at 1st level
- standard bonus feat
* Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you
- I would equate making one skill a class skill about half a (weak) feat - it's akin to the Pathfinder traits which are half-feats, but again on the weak side.

So the benefits probably total over 3 feat equivalents.

Drawbacks:
* -1 to fortitude saves
- This is a negative half feat (Great Fortitude is +2); and I would probably count is as half a weak feat - a bit more than the UMD class skill benefit.
* -2 to saves against fear effects
- this is about the same as a negative feat.

So the drawbacks are about minus one and a half feats.

Conclusion, anyone wanting to take a multi-caster build would be foolish not to kill for this selection - if they are worried about fortitude saves just take Great Fortitude as their bonus feat.
This would be a must-have for most caster builds even if it took up a feat slot - it's that good.

Seriously, I think this would be worth taking for most casters and a must for multiple-class casters as a feat with the bonus feat removed! +1 caster level actually makes a huge difference at low levels (e.g. 2 hour mage armor not 1) and is fairly hard to come by just for specific schools/types (e.g. some races give +1 caster level to an element), having it on everything at level one is awesome.

[Rynjin]

Eunuchs should get a free pair of Ioun stones that give off light as a torch and occasionally pulsate.

Perhaps allow them to automatically upgrade to have other special effects as they level, like providing a heat source in cold climates. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFsOlR7UUvI)

[redking]

Conclusion, anyone wanting to take a multi-caster build would be foolish not to kill for this selection - if they are worried about fortitude saves just take Great Fortitude as their bonus feat.
This would be a must-have for most caster builds even if it took up a feat slot - it's that good.

Seriously, I think this would be worth taking for most casters and a must for multiple-class casters as a feat with the bonus feat removed! +1 caster level actually makes a huge difference at low levels (e.g. 2 hour mage armor not 1) and is fairly hard to come by just for specific schools/types (e.g. some races give +1 caster level to an element), having it on everything at level one is awesome.

In my OP I suggested that such a character could be affected by level adjustment. LA +1 should clear up any issues of balance. EDIT: The +1 bonus to caster level could apply to a single class.

[Khedrac]

In my OP I suggested that such a character could be affected by level adjustment. LA +1 should clear up any issues of balance. EDIT: The +1 bonus to caster level could apply to a single class.

I had missed that. I think the caster level bonus should just be one class, or even a single category of spells - that would bring it more in line with other races etc.
Having said that, with the reduction to just one class (or less) then I think LA+1 is probably about right (perhaps with the removal of the bonus feat).
LA+2 seems a little on the high side with no stat boosts (but I rarely use LA so I am not a good judge of it).

[Gorthawar]

There is a magic ritual that makes you essentially asexual, lose the drive to procreate and in fact sterile in D&D 3.5. Look no further than the rite of rebirth turning you into a dragonborn of bahamut. It speaks for itself that this is not mentioned in the traits of the template at all as it is not seen as a plus or minus in game terms at all.

[redking]

There is a magic ritual that makes you essentially asexual, lose the drive to procreate and in fact sterile in D&D 3.5. Look no further than the rite of rebirth turning you into a dragonborn of bahamut. It speaks for itself that this is not mentioned in the traits of the template at all as it is not seen as a plus or minus in game terms at all.

There's a whole nation of Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms. Are you sure they are asexual?


I had missed that. I think the caster level bonus should just be one class, or even a single category of spells - that would bring it more in line with other races etc.
Having said that, with the reduction to just one class (or less) then I think LA+1 is probably about right (perhaps with the removal of the bonus feat).
LA+2 seems a little on the high side with no stat boosts (but I rarely use LA so I am not a good judge of it).

I opted for any feat partly because I am lazy. I could narrow down the feats to be selected perhaps. Maybe even make it eschew components - you lost your junk, therefore you don't need simple material components - you lost the need for such props when your junk went into the magical brazier. Maybe that doesn't make scientific sense but it seems plausible with magic.

[icefractal]

As written, it's too good (compare to that other Flaw - you get a bonus feat plus other stuff, for less penalty, vs just a bonus feat).

LA makes it pointless though - lose a CL to get +1 CL? That means you get Xth level spells later (and lose a little hp/skills/etc). You do get a bonus feat, but not worth it.

Now LA +1 for:
+1 CL
+1 spellcasting level
Bonus Feat

That might be worth it. So a hypothetical ECL 9 character:
Normal: Wizard 9
This: Wizard 8, casts as Wizard 9 with CL 10

You're still delaying access to prestige classes and some feat prerequisites (and you have slightly lower hp/skills/saves), but your casting is a little better and you get a bonus feat (effectively 2/3 of a bonus feat, but still). I could see a caster potentially taking this.

No LA buyoff obviously. There's no way to balance this with LA buyoff, as it would be either strictly useless pre-reduction or OP post-reduction.

[Anymage]

Let me spin the question around by asking what's an appropriate mystical gift for having killed someone? After all, human sacrifice for power is a trope with a long pedigree.

If your answer doesn't have a lot of focus on the nature of the entity bargained with and their long term goals, and instead offers a nice power boost to any PC who happened to kill a kobold in one of their first combat encounters, you might want to go back to the drawing board.

I do remember there being sacrifice rules in BoVD, although my own copy is long lost. That might provide some starting point to work from. Although again the most important part is finding an entity interested in a bargain and striking one with them, as opposed to hoping for a power boost for taking a cleaver to your junk in your character's backstory.

[redking]

Let me spin the question around by asking what's an appropriate mystical gift for having killed someone? After all, human sacrifice for power is a trope with a long pedigree.

If your answer doesn't have a lot of focus on the nature of the entity bargained with and their long term goals, and instead offers a nice power boost to any PC who happened to kill a kobold in one of their first combat encounters, you might want to go back to the drawing board.

I do remember there being sacrifice rules in BoVD, although my own copy is long lost. That might provide some starting point to work from. Although again the most important part is finding an entity interested in a bargain and striking one with them, as opposed to hoping for a power boost for taking a cleaver to your junk in your character's backstory.

You talk about killing a kobold in a combat encounter. You've also mentioned sacrifice rules in BoVD. Obviously the ritualized nature of a killing makes it magically or religiously significant. Did Aztecs believe killing enemies on the battlefield as acceptable sacrifices to the gods? They did not. Instead they took significant risks to bring them back to the ziggurat and sacrifice them there.

It's not really necessary to explain why male genitals have magical significance anymore than we have to explain why "eye of newt" is useful for spells. If you had to know the unknowable, perhaps there are outer planar entities that do not have their own junk, and a willing sacrifice by a mortal in exchange for power is a way that they can get it.

[OracleofWuffing]

In a game in which I was a player another PC chaotic neutral cleric of Talos got a barmaid pregnant and when the baby came along refused to take responsibility. This became a theme for this cleric as it happened multiple times. I suspect that had he been a eunuch cleric of Talos that would not have happened.
Perhaps this was a, "You had to be there to fully understand," kind of of thing, but it doesn't sound to me like the ability to have children impacted the game all that much: The player effectively continued on as if there was no child. Talos is a chaotic evil deity of destruction, pillaging, and storms, right? While castration would prevent the offspring issue, this sounds like a character that may not become more "heroic" afterwards, and perhaps would put any benefits to more violent opportunities.

[Draconi Redfir]

Just an idle thought as it comes:

By sacrificing your genitalia in an occult ritual, you have freed your mind from burdens of the flesh. Former temptations such as lust, conflict, and a paternal instinct have been freed from your mind due to the sacrifice and magics of the ritual. By doing this, you have unlocked your mind to new opportunities and possibilities, allowing to grow beyond what you could have been before.

You gain a +1 trait bonus to will saves. In addition, you may learn one additional cantrip from any class and treat it as a cantrip of your class and level. You may still use this cantrip even if you do not have levels in a spellcasting class.



A cantrip might not feel like a whole lot, but i don't want to go so far as to say a 1st level spell, that might be a bit much?

[Berenger]

Immunity to alimony lawsuits?



But seriously, tell us about the nature and motivation of whatever supernatural entity in your game world that goes around granting those mystical boons to eunuchs. The answer to the question which type of benefit is appropriate lies in there. Some ascetic mystery cult promoting spiritual ascendancy through utter dispassionateness, the insane bloodthirsty berserker god hell-bent on opposition to the very concepts of life and creation or a cruel trickster spirit foxing guys into mutilating themselves for some "gift" that sounds great on paper but turns out utterly underwhelming in practice probably won't offer the same standard reward.




Let me spin the question around by asking what's an appropriate mystical gift for having killed someone? After all, human sacrifice for power is a trope with a long pedigree.
Experience points. The mystical gift for having killed someone is experience points. Sacrifice more and stronger creatures to attain the strength of a demigod! :smallamused:

[Gorthawar]

There's a whole nation of Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms. Are you sure they are asexual?


I believe that's after the spell plague in D&D 4 and 5 with different Dragonborn. For 3.5 it states in Races of the Dragon that on page 13ish that Dragonborn of Bahamut are asexual and sterile.

[redking]

I believe that's after the spell plague in D&D 4 and 5 with different Dragonborn. For 3.5 it states in Races of the Dragon that on page 13ish that Dragonborn of Bahamut are asexual and sterile.

I see. I get that the Dragonborn of Bahamut don't have any junk, but I don't see what they have done as the same as mystic eunuch. Being asexual is the modality for these Dragonborn. You can't say they've sacrificed anything, and their new state of existence means that it's highly unlikely that they miss those aspects of their previous life.


But seriously, tell us about the nature and motivation of whatever supernatural entity in your game world that goes around granting those mystical boons to eunuchs. The answer to the question which type of benefit is appropriate lies in there. Some ascetic mystery cult promoting spiritual ascendancy through utter dispassionateness, the insane bloodthirsty berserker god hell-bent on opposition to the very concepts of life and creation or a cruel trickster spirit foxing guys into mutilating themselves for some "gift" that sounds great on paper but turns out utterly underwhelming in practice probably won't offer the same standard reward

I was just thinking how much more interesting Raistlin would have been if his pact with Fistandantilus involved sacrificing his junk and becoming a eunuch. That would better explain the butthurt experienced by Raistlin when Caramon fraternized with women. Then when Raistlin defeats Fistandantilus after traveling back in time, he can actually have a physical relationship with Crysania.

Call me a Philistine if you like. I enjoy a good roast.

[Remuko]

anymore than we have to explain why "eye of newt" is useful for spells.

just in case you or anyone else didnt know though, eye of newt, isnt actually the eye of a newt... “Eye of newt” is actually a less well-known name for mustard seed.

[Particle_Man]

Isn’t there some kind of oath of chastity in the book of exalted deeds? So maybe you just get that feat (not for free; you spend your feat slot on it) and then get the benefits of that feat. Edit: Vow of Chastity, but you need Sacred Vow as a prerequisite so should be human or take a flaw at chargen to get two feats at chargen). Plus you have to be super duper good aligned since they are exalted feats.

Alternatively, since we are talking a fantasy campaign, you could end up getting levels in the green star adept prestige class, or transform into a warforged or necropolitan.

[Particle_Man]

just in case you or anyone else didnt know though, eye of newt, isnt actually the eye of a newt... “Eye of newt” is actually a less well-known name for mustard seed.

What about “toe of frog”?

[Remuko]

What about “toe of frog”?

this link has that and a few others

https://www.continuum.umn.edu/2017/10/shakespearean-recipe-witchs-brew/

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Remuko
this link has that and a few others

Be sure to read the very thoughtful comment below the post, which provides a broader context for the supposed herbal meanings.

[Asmotherion]

There is a hidden artifact called the Rod of Vecna you can attach. It gives you create food and water 3 times per day. :smallamused:

Jokes aside, if you're so keen on developing something like that, I guess you could work your way with a custom Incantation.

[redking]

Be sure to read the very thoughtful comment below the post, which provides a broader context for the supposed herbal meanings.

That was an excellent comment.

[Thurbane]

@ the OP: my advice - don't listen to the naysayers that say there should be no in-game benefit. It depends entirely on your campaign, and what a suitable reward would be.

Even though the negatives might only be role-playing or fluff implications, again, depending on the campaign, these may indeed be quite serious drawbacks.

Maybe have it as a flaw that can only grant certain feats as the benefit: Magical Aptitude, Magical Training, Precious Apprentice or something along those lines.

If you don't want to go down that route, maybe +1 CL with a certain school or subschool of magic...

[redking]

@ the OP: my advice - don't listen to the naysayers that say there should be no in-game benefit. It depends entirely on your campaign, and what a suitable reward would be.

Even though the negatives might only be role-playing or fluff implications, again, depending on the campaign, these may indeed be quite serious drawbacks.


Thanks.

What I am thinking is that despite the buffs granted by being a mystic eunuch, almost no one would make that trade in the campaign world when the game is being played properly. So if player decides on a mystic eunuch PC, it's going to be a major theme for that PC.

It's entirely possible that this could be completely involuntary. What if for example all magi (arcane spellcasters) were required by custom or law to be such? There is just too much flavour in this theme to discard.

[Rynjin]

Ah yes, Sorcerers, well known for being unable to procreate.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by redking
What if for example all magi (arcane spellcasters) were required by custom or law to be such? There is just too much flavour in this theme to discard.

Absolutely, especially if these are court magi or some other form of high officials.

[redking]

Absolutely, especially if these are court magi or some other form of high officials.

Since most magi are thus castrated, the eunuch magi will not countenance magi that have not joined their "fellowship" via ritual castration. This is a variant of the magic persecution scenario, where magic is accepted under limited circumstances. Any male magi with his junk intact is considered a dangerous threat to society.

[satorian]

What I am thinking is that despite the buffs granted by being a mystic eunuch, almost no one would make that trade in the campaign world when the game is being played properly. So if player decides on a mystic eunuch PC, it's going to be a major theme for that PC.


That's a strange assertion. Aside from the merely the rough terrain of stating what a "properly" played campaign looks like (badwrongfun?), in a game where players regularly play hideous and fearsome humanoid races, undead monstrosities, and wooden robots (neither of the latter of which can usually do the nasty/procreate), why is being a eunuch so shockingly, ahem, eu-nique? This is a game where it's considered entirely acceptable to cut off your arm and replace it with a demon arm. If those things don't consume a character's role play, why would this?

[Draconi Redfir]

Any male magi with his junk intact is considered a dangerous threat to society.

Perhaps this could even be true to some extent. Some quick googling shows that castrated individuals have much lower testosterone levels. Maybe high levels of testosterone can lead to less controllable (maybe more powerful?) magic. Like the magic is part of you, so it also reacts to the hormones running through your body in some way. So someone who went through with the procedure would have more focus and more control over their magic, akin to your typical wizard, while those who didn't would less controllable and erratic, similar to a wild-magic user.

Not perfect analogies of course, but something to consider.

[redking]

That's a strange assertion. Aside from the merely the rough terrain of stating what a "properly" played campaign looks like (badwrongfun?), in a game where players regularly play hideous and fearsome humanoid races, undead monstrosities, and wooden robots (neither of the latter of which can usually do the nasty/procreate), why is being a eunuch so shockingly, ahem, eu-nique? This is a game where it's considered entirely acceptable to cut off your arm and replace it with a demon arm. If those things don't consume a character's role play, why would this?

I bolded that because of 'replace'. Once you start talking replacement, you are talking about something else altogether. This movie, for example. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_Zen) Replacing junk has radically different consequences.

A one armed man would be similar to a eunuch in the sense that something is lacking. I've not heard anything that links one armed men to magical power, but there is a movie about a one armed man too. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fugitive_(1993_film))

Losing your junk would be a major happening in any male's life. It would impact every aspect of that male's life. Properly played means properly role played. There can be players that refuse to play in character at all, or see the PCs as a simple set of numbers. That's not my ideal. I don't tell people how to play their own games, however.


Perhaps this could even be true to some extent. Some quick googling shows that castrated individuals have much lower testosterone levels. Maybe high levels of testosterone can lead to less controllable (maybe more powerful?) magic. Like the magic is part of you, so it also reacts to the hormones running through your body in some way. So someone who went through with the procedure would have more focus and more control over their magic, akin to your typical wizard, while those who didn't would less controllable and erratic, similar to a wild-magic user.

Right. It could be that. Or the fear of magical bloodlines concentrating and dominating the rest of society. Maybe the gods demand it, like a magical pact of Abraham with a lot more damage to the junk. Or perhaps this is the prerequisite for magic in certain settings. The mere existence of your junk is the barrier to arcane spellcasting. Many possibilities.

[Psyren]

Losing your junk would be a major happening in any male's life. It would impact every aspect of that male's life. Properly played means properly role played. There can be players that refuse to play in character at all, or see the PCs as a simple set of numbers. That's not my ideal. I don't tell people how to play their own games, however.

Putting aside how much there is to unpack just in those first two sentences, how should someone "properly roleplay" this in your view? Do they spiral into depression? Act less masculine over time? Throw themselves into academia or the arts? If they decide their personality stays the same, does that mean they're not "in character?"

[Troacctid]

Losing your junk would be a major happening in any male's life. It would impact every aspect of that male's life. Properly played means properly role played.
So would losing your hair, but you don't see me imposing mechanical ramifications for baldness.

[redking]

Putting aside how much there is to unpack just in those first two sentences, how should someone "properly roleplay" this in your view? Do they spiral into depression? Act less masculine over time? Throw themselves into academia or the arts? If they decide their personality stays the same, does that mean they're not "in character?"

I don't know man. You seem to object to this very topic. For the last time, I am not talking about gender reassignment surgery. Stop trying to make it about that.


So would losing your hair, but you don't see me imposing mechanical ramifications for baldness.

This man is going bald but for some reason had a regeneration spell cast on his arm instead. (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12272570/dad-lost-penis-grow-on-arm/)

[Draconi Redfir]

So would losing your hair, but you don't see me imposing mechanical ramifications for baldness.

Monks? They're typically depicted as ritually shaving their head to show devotion or humility. or a lack of earthly bonds.

Keep in mind that this isn't just "Some dude with his balls cut off" this is a magical ritual that involves them being sacrificed.


You know Odin of norse mythology? How he sacrificed one of his eyes in exchange for enlightenment? (Sometimes also depicted as gaining future sight or something else of the sort) Same general idea, just a different body part.

[redking]

Monks? They're typically depicted as ritually shaving their head to show devotion or humility. or a lack of earthly bonds.

Keep in mind that this isn't just "Some dude with his balls cut off" this is a magical ritual that involves them being sacrificed.

You know Odin of norse mythology? How he sacrificed one of his eyes in exchange for enlightenment? (Sometimes also depicted as gaining future sight or something else of the sort) Same general idea, just a different body part.

I mentioned Odin and his sacrifice of an eye for knowledge in the first page of this thread also. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25233833&postcount=15)

mystic eunuchs are an interesting character concept, either NPC or PC. Raistlin sacrificed his ability see normally for the magic. I honestly think Raistlin as a eunuch has much more pathos.

[Psyren]

I don't know man. You seem to object to this very topic. For the last time, I am not talking about gender reassignment surgery. Stop trying to make it about that.

I'm not talking about surgery either. I was just asking what you think "proper roleplay" is in this context. You're trying to identify appropriate mechanical benefits and penalties for this, are you not?

[satorian]

There is no one answer to what a properly role-played eunuch would be. Would he be dour and humorless? Maybe. Depressed? Maybe, sure. But he could also have found some sort of existential joy in sloughing off worldly desires, and in that case could be jolly, or wise. He could merely be of strong mental fortitude, and decided to accept his new lot in life. He could be vengeful and resentful, or forgiving and kindly. As with any trauma, the results depend on the person traumatized.

This is why tying a mechanical effect to the severity of the trauma is impossible. Would you give such a benefit to a paraplegic? As large? Smaller? How much larger or smaller? Such a person would similarly be unable to have sex. Would a quadriplegic get double the bonus? Either are suffering a greater trauma than a eunuch. Do you do this with every trauma? Is a lost finger worth a +1 sense motive?

None of this is to say that a castration ritual that gives mystical powers is senseless. It's just that how much power you get for it comes from the ritual, not the extent of the trauma. And, as with all magic, the answer is arbitrary and fully dependent on the power of the magic, not the material component. Put another way: there are first level spells of low power than require a 100 GP pearl, mid-level spells that use bat poop, and potent high level spells that require nothing at all.

[Curbludgeon]

I think OracleofWuffing pretty much nailed it. Tying ritual castration directly to saving throws and spell DCs can't help but lead to some sort of creepy gender essentialism. Obviating a fluff requirement for a given feat or PrC instead affords some optimization space, which charitably seems to be the intent. At the utmost I'd consider just how big a fluff requirement could be bypassed to be affected by societal constraints. For high status imperial civil servants in a culture where such are exclusively eunuchs, then it's just the cost of doing business. Alternatively, in a deeply chauvinistic society where interaction penalties will apply, ritual castration might be some sort of largely forgotten occult shortcut.

[Draconi Redfir]

Just an idle thought as it comes:

By sacrificing your genitalia in an occult ritual, you have freed your mind from burdens of the flesh. Former temptations such as lust, conflict, and a paternal instinct have been freed from your mind due to the sacrifice and magics of the ritual. By doing this, you have unlocked your mind to new opportunities and possibilities, allowing to grow beyond what you could have been before.

You gain a +1 trait bonus to will saves. In addition, you may learn one additional cantrip from any class and treat it as a cantrip of your class and level. You may still use this cantrip even if you do not have levels in a spellcasting class.



A cantrip might not feel like a whole lot, but i don't want to go so far as to say a 1st level spell, that might be a bit much?


I'm just going to re-post this here as i feel like it's something that focuses more on the point of the idea, that being the magical ritual and why it happened to begin with. Unlocking magical potential, rather then any other meaning.

if nothing else, it's a good jumping off point i feel.

[mabriss lethe]

OK. so. Here's the deal. In a vacuum, it's impossible to assess the value what you want. In that situation where we're assessing pure mechanics, becoming a eunuch does not have an established mechanic. In that sense, the answer to what an appropriate benefit would be is "Nothing" You're not losing anything mechanically, so trying to justify additional power seems bordering on munchkinry. That's why you're seeing a lot of pushback. Ultimately, removing a character's dangling unmentionables is purely fluff, and works best when coupled with crunch.

At the simplest level, it can just be backstory fluff that helps explain some in game character choices, but otherwise offers no tangible benefit. It was the cost your outsider patron asked of your character to become a warlock, or whatever. (I used a similar backstory for a goblin warlock I named Gragga the Maimed, his patron was a Barghest and wouldn't seal the deal without a "pound of flesh" and bit off two of his fingers on one hand.) It becomes colorful, but mechanically inconsequential.

If you want more, then you should flesh it out with mechanical costs. If it's going to be primarily an in game social stigma you can treat it as a flaw by adding some relevant mechanical penalties. perhaps a penalty to intimidation, as the fantasy society of World X deems eunuchs as less masculine and therefore less overtly threatening. For a flaw level penalty, you can get a bonus feat. but still notice that the loss of his twig n' berries is still fluff to justify crunch.

You want it to be the culmination of a ritual empowerment? Alright. It becomes the symbolic act that seals a deal, but the deal being struck needs a more mechanically tangible sacrifice. XP and/or GP are good ones. Enacting the ritual is more than just a chalk circle and a sharp knife. You need to burn rare incense to attract the attention of the being you're dealing with. expensive oils to purify and consecrate your body for the ritual. The ritual itself is spiritually taxing (XP cost) The end result might look like a weapon of legacy power or one of the various other ritual benefits. You could rework Necropolitan as a baseline for costs/reward. There are a lot of options, but it ultimately comes down to balancing mechanical gains with tangible mechanical costs. the Eunuch part should always reside on the fluff part of the equation

[redking]

OK. so. Here's the deal. In a vacuum, it's impossible to assess the value what you want. In that situation where we're assessing pure mechanics, becoming a eunuch does not have an established mechanic. In that sense, the answer to what an appropriate benefit would be is "Nothing" You're not losing anything mechanically, so trying to justify additional power seems bordering on munchkinry. That's why you're seeing a lot of pushback. Ultimately, removing a character's dangling unmentionables is purely fluff, and works best when coupled with crunch.

You aren't the first person to raise this matter in this thread. In my OP, I asked for suggestions, and also asked people to think about a Level Adjustment.


What do you give? Assume say LA 2 or 3.

Given the amount of munchkinry on these boards, I do not think that is the reason for the pushback.


You want it to be the culmination of a ritual empowerment? Alright. It becomes the symbolic act that seals a deal, but the deal being struck needs a more mechanically tangible sacrifice. XP and/or GP are good ones. Enacting the ritual is more than just a chalk circle and a sharp knife. You need to burn rare incense to attract the attention of the being you're dealing with. expensive oils to purify and consecrate your body for the ritual. The ritual itself is spiritually taxing (XP cost) The end result might look like a weapon of legacy power or one of the various other ritual benefits. You could rework Necropolitan as a baseline for costs/reward. There are a lot of options, but it ultimately comes down to balancing mechanical gains with tangible mechanical costs. the Eunuch part should always reside on the fluff part of the equation

I was thinking that this would happen at character creation rather than something that occurs mid-career. The LA takes care of the XP component you speak of. I don't see how anyone can object to an LA 1 - 3 mystic eunuch if they have no problem with player character races with an LA of the same.

What benefits would you grant a eunuch that was subjected to a ritual castration? That's the question in my OP. Few replies have even tried to engage it.

[mabriss lethe]

If you're looking for something that is appropriate to a starting character, maybe refluff and tweak Primordial Giant from Secrets of Xendrix to apply to a humanoid character. It's LA+0 iirc, is appropriately magical, and won't break game balance too much.

If you want a template with higher LA that just hands you a prepackaged selection of magic look at Phrenic and its HD based PLAs at +2.

[Draconi Redfir]

What benefits would you grant a eunuch that was subjected to a ritual castration?

Well if you're looking for something with a LA +1 or 2 and increases their magical abilites... More spell slots? spells known? Let them learn spells from other classes?

just expanding on my cantrip idea here.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by redking
Since most magi are thus castrated, the eunuch magi will not countenance magi that have not joined their "fellowship" via ritual castration.

This could have some interesting effects on the power dynamics in an empire, if the eunuch magi are jealous of both magical and temporal power.

They may hunt intact males that exhibit any trace of that same power—but what happens if a member of the royal family begins to show something similar?


Originally Posted by redking
It would impact every aspect of that male's life.

This permanently closes off any possibility of naturally fathered children, which in effect negates a great many future timelines for that individual. Perhaps there’s a tradeoff for the lost timelines?

Perhaps by removing all possibility of descendants, some aspect of the mage’s essence is compressed somehow—rather than being drawn out into the far future through many descendants, the potential energy is concentrated into a single lifetime, past a certain critical threshold?


Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
By doing this, you have unlocked your mind to new opportunities and possibilities, allowing to grow beyond what you could have been before.

Perhaps without the distractions, this could also have the effect of a +2 to Concentration checks when casting spells? Just one potential bonus.

[Thurbane]

I honestly don't get why some people are so strongly attacking the OPs premise of this homebrew. No one is going to force you to sit in at his table and play under these rules, for crying out loud! :smallbiggrin:


This is why tying a mechanical effect to the severity of the trauma is impossible. Would you give such a benefit to a paraplegic? As large? Smaller? How much larger or smaller? Such a person would similarly be unable to have sex. Would a quadriplegic get double the bonus? Either are suffering a greater trauma than a eunuch. Do you do this with every trauma? Is a lost finger worth a +1 sense motive?

Sorry, but that seems a bit of a weird objection to me. The game already has massively disparate levels of sacrifice (reqs) to reward (feats, PrCs etc.).

Obviously if you are home-brewing anything, you weight up cost and benefit as you see fit. That's the very premise of homebrew.

Sure, you might run into balance issues at either end of the scale, but as I already mentioned - disparity is already well and truly entrenched in most official mechanics of the game (class disparity, some feats being massively more powerful or useful than others etc.).

If the main argument is "Well, if you make the benefit too good, everyone will take it!" ... you might as well say "Why on Earth would anyone play something other than a Tier 1 caster?".

If the objection is "This is a bit squicky, and something I wouldn't be comfortable with in my game"- fair point, but that's going to vary massively by group.

One would hope with anything of this nature, a DM has a feel for his group and what might be problematic. Same way you mightn't introduce some stuff from BoVD without sounding it out with the group; or introducing the BoEF without consultation.

[redking]

Well if you're looking for something with a LA +1 or 2 and increases their magical abilites... More spell slots? spells known? Let them learn spells from other classes?

I am soliciting ideas. So have at it.


This could have some interesting effects on the power dynamics in an empire, if the eunuch magi are jealous of both magical and temporal power.

They may hunt intact males that exhibit any trace of that same power—but what happens if a member of the royal family begins to show something similar?

Interesting plot thread. The heir to the throne, the only son, has developed magical powers. By law and custom, the crown prince must be ritually castrated. Now what?


Perhaps by removing all possibility of descendants, some aspect of the mage’s essence is compressed somehow—rather than being drawn out into the far future through many descendants, the potential energy is concentrated into a single lifetime, past a certain critical threshold?

Concentrated virility.


I honestly don't get why some people are so strongly attacking the OPs premise of this homebrew. No one is going to force you to sit in at his table and play under these rules, for crying out loud! :smallbiggrin:

Right on. Eunuchs make for great tropes. (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EunuchsAreEvil)

[Rynjin]

mystic eunuchs are an interesting character concept, either NPC or PC. Raistlin sacrificed his ability see normally for the magic. I honestly think Raistlin as a eunuch has much more pathos.

Yeah, Raistlin was indeed a character defined by his sex drive and virility, losing his "manhood" really would have impacted his character and how they interacted with the world.

[redking]

Yeah, Raistlin was indeed a character defined by his sex drive and virility, losing his "manhood" really would have impacted his character and how they interacted with the world.

Yes, actually. Perhaps you have not read the Dragonlance novels carefully.


I was just thinking how much more interesting Raistlin would have been if his pact with Fistandantilus involved sacrificing his junk and becoming a eunuch. That would better explain the butthurt experienced by Raistlin when Caramon fraternized with women. Then when Raistlin defeats Fistandantilus after traveling back in time, he can actually have a physical relationship with Crysania.

Raistlin's involuntary celibacy looms large. Formalizing it by making Raistlin a mystic eunuch would not be a radical departure.

[Rynjin]

Yes, actually. Perhaps you have not read the Dragonlance novels carefully.

Raistlin is a horny, jealous incel, yes. He was not by any measure of the word "virile" and his entire sexual frustration stems from already having what he views as a physical inability to get a woman.

Him being a eunuch makes this LESS interesting, not more, as it turns this false perception ("I'm a sub-8 male, I'll never get a girl =(") into one that's more justified.

Giving up his junk for power at that point is not a "sacrifice" as he already believes he's undesirable and will never get to use it anyway.

[redking]

Raistlin is a horny, jealous incel, yes. He was not by any measure of the word "virile" and his entire sexual frustration stems from already having what he views as a physical inability to get a woman.

Virile is your word, not mine, so I don't have to contend with it.


Him being a eunuch makes this LESS interesting, not more, as it turns this false perception ("I'm a sub-8 male, I'll never get a girl =(") into one that's more justified.

Yeah but I am talking about "the sacrifice for the magic", something that Raistlin talks about all the time. Caramon's reaction would be gold.


Giving up his junk for power at that point is not a "sacrifice" as he already believes he's undesirable and will never get to use it anyway.

Not while Raistlin occupies the omega male rungs of society. But when Raistlin grows in power (and attractiveness to women), his sacrifice will be felt keenly. Later, Raistlin journeys into the past to take back his junk from Fistandantilus, to whom he sacrificed his junk in the first place.

[Rynjin]

Virile is your word, not mine, so I don't have to contend with it.

Virile is my word, to which you said "Yes, actually" so...yes, actually, you do.

[redking]

Virile is my word, to which you said "Yes, actually" so...yes, actually, you do.

Seems unneccesarily tendentious.


Yeah, Raistlin was indeed a character defined by his sex drive and virility, losing his "manhood" really would have impacted his character and how they interacted with the world.

Here you go then.

[OracleofWuffing]

I was trying to think of an overly complicated arrangement of Ice Assassins, but got distracted and arrived at the conclusion that it's probably not going to be enough to just restrict one from being able to repair themself after the ritual, if you're going to focus on the boon coming from the issue of not being able to have natural offspring. Wish and Miracle would conceivably allow, uh, conception, without needing the requisite pieces. Sure, it's not on the "Pre-Approved List" of valid uses, so there's room for results to be interpreted in an unfavorable light, but the option's there. It's kind of like an awkward combination of Summon Monster 1, Lesser Planar Binding, and some researched spell to make up for the fact that you're summoning something pretty specific that doesn't exist, not exactly out of line for the level 9 reality warping spells specifically designed to warp reality. Wouldn't even need a mate if you wanna skip childbirth, no one likes childbirth.

Okay, jokey unrealistic silly idea that would either not fly in actual play at all, or get some really twisted unexpected reactions, done. Getting back down to Earth.

The Warlock package giggle includes making pacts with extraplanar powers to obtain supernatural powers, it would not be out of line that either some or all Warlocks (or, Sorcerers, if you want to remain core) in a custom setting had that ritual done as part of their pact, and their class features are the benefit of the pact. I mention that just as service because I still don't understand the impact. Since that's probably not enough for you, well... If you still want a +2 LA benefit, just give it to them. They do this, they can pick a +1 or +2 LA template and apply its benefits. Wizards aren't the only people that would make a sacrifice for more power, and Fighters sometimes have genitalia, so I don't see why whatever force that grants powers would exclusively target casters, especially if we don't know what that force is or why it desires this ritual.

If you really want a catch all, single answer... Well, part of me sees Sanctified the Wicked as a spell that metaphorically causes an [Evil] creature to castrate itself through a year-long ritual, so... Change a bunch of the words on the Sanctified Creature template, and make it something that can be applied without alignment restrictions while keeping special attacks. You make nearby hostile creatures take -2 to attacks, AC, and saves, you get a magic circle against Something or Other ability, only real difficult call to make is what type of weapon your natural and wielded weapons count for overcoming damage reduction.

[redking]

Wizards aren't the only people that would make a sacrifice for more power, and Fighters sometimes have genitalia, so I don't see why whatever force that grants powers would exclusively target casters, especially if we don't know what that force is or why it desires this ritual.

The Unsullied (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Unsullied) are eunuch slave soldiers from the Game of Thrones setting. While their castration is not part of a magical ritual, it is central their transformation into fearless warriors. If you wanted to extend the theme, you could have castrati bards as well.

For the purpose of this thread, I am thinking only about male mystic eunuchs. While I am primarily concerned with the arcane spellcasting classes, I could easily see warlocks being this too, as you mention.