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View Full Version : Vow of poverty- handing out treasure



Emperor Demonking
2007-11-17, 11:22 AM
Thier are two parts of this:

1) What techniques to you see players use and what have you never seen used.

2) What happens if you have a vow of poverty character in a group that gives treasure to those who can get most use of them.

Douglas
2007-11-17, 12:04 PM
2) The character loses all benefits of the vow. A character who takes the Vow of Poverty is specifically required by the vow to take his normal full share of treasure and donate it to charity outside the party. If he does not do this he has broken the terms of the Vow and loses it.

Emperor Demonking
2007-11-17, 12:07 PM
2) The character loses all benefits of the vow. A character who takes the Vow of Poverty is specifically required by the vow to take his normal full share of treasure and donate it to charity outside the party. If he does not do this he has broken the terms of the Vow and loses it.

But if they're in a group that gives items out to those who use that sort of thing the most the VoPChar's normal share of the treasure is none.

Arang
2007-11-17, 12:11 PM
2) The character loses all benefits of the vow. A character who takes the Vow of Poverty is specifically required by the vow to take his normal full share of treasure and donate it to charity outside the party. If he does not do this he has broken the terms of the Vow and loses it.

Is there anything preventing the VoP character from having his party deny him any treasure whatsoever?

Karsh
2007-11-17, 12:15 PM
Yes. The Vow isn't just "I vow to not have anything," it's "I vow to not have anything because I will give all that I have to the poor." The character is obligated to take his share of treasure and donate it to charity. If the party denies him any treasure, conflict arises and/or he'll end up breaking his vow, resulting in a pissed Monk/Druid/Sorcerer.

Emperor Demonking
2007-11-17, 12:17 PM
Or fighter. Sorry for being a better roleplayer

Douglas
2007-11-17, 12:24 PM
A character with Vow of Poverty must be "as extreme in works of charity as she is in self-denial." If the party operates on an as-needed basis for distributing treasure, then the VoP character must speak up for his "need" to be charitable. He can settle for the rest of the party's rejects - the +1 longsword when everyone has +2 already, the helm of underwater action that will never get used, etc. - but it has to add up to (in a four-person party) about 1/4 of the party's total treasure by value, and he has to donate it all to NPCs.

prufock
2007-11-17, 12:34 PM
Well, specifically, it says "the majority of her share of party treasure... should be donated to the needy." So, technically, as long as you're giving 51% of your share to charity, you shouldn't lose your vow. The other 49% could legally go to the rest of your party.

Douglas
2007-11-17, 12:37 PM
Any rules lawyer trying to argue that point is obviously trying to circumvent the restrictions of the vow, blatantly violating its spirit even if technically abiding by the letter, and deserves a DM smite.

prufock
2007-11-17, 12:40 PM
Any rules lawyer trying to argue that point is obviously trying to circumvent the restrictions of the vow, blatantly violating its spirit even if technically abiding by the letter, and deserves a DM smite.

Oh, it's certainly outside the spirit of the idea, but not outside the rules as written. It isn't circumventing the restrictions of the vow, it's within the restrictions of the vow. It could simply be an oversight due to sloppy writing, but it isn't a circumvention. More like a bisection.

littlechicory
2007-11-17, 02:39 PM
Any rules lawyer trying to argue that point is obviously trying to circumvent the restrictions of the vow, blatantly violating its spirit even if technically abiding by the letter, and deserves a DM smite.

I think this is one of those things that can be overruled by DM fiat if the player can provide a good argument.

I negotiated with my DM (through the NPC my monk was answering to) that since my party at the time was a paladin and a good warmage and all the missions we were carrying out and using our resources toward were for the good of the people anyway (by means of killing evil undead that were menacing the people), that my donating to the party as well as to 'organized religious groups' (ie, a 50/50 split) would benefit the people as much as if I simply donated it all to charities, if not more since the money was going toward the active defense of the people.

... which the DM later said was a good call on my part since one of those religion-based "charities" turned out to be run by the church of Shar, and my donation wasn't exactly being used for the common good. *cough*

CthulhuM
2007-11-17, 03:29 PM
I'd say that if the VoP character isn't getting any loot because every piece of loot you get is useful to one of the other players, then the problem is that the DM is being too generous with the loot - treasure shouldn't really be that convenient. Using random treasure tables (the ones in MIC in particular) should get you an even distribution of loot such that, between the coins and gems, and the magic items no one has a particular use for, there's plenty of cash to be divided up evenly (and thus plenty of cash goes to the VoP character to give away).

Felius
2007-11-17, 05:04 PM
Well, depending of the party, they could donate to themselves, or even to the organized religious fund that happen to fund them. But that's not in the spirit of the vow, unless it's a very strange party.

Mojo_Rat
2007-11-17, 07:06 PM
If the party is dividing loot by 'who needs it best' then the person witht he VoP should be arguing for items being 'best needed' by the poor and doing everything they can to ensure that the 'poor and needy' get their fare share.

It ultimately isnt something the person with VoP should be passive on. If this means that either arguing that any item the PC would normally be able to 'best use' goes to the poor (like monk items if your a monk, or sorcr items if you are a sorcerer) Then thats for the other party members to dispute. But it should always be ensured that the poor and needy get their fare cut by the person witht he vow.

F.L.
2007-11-17, 07:54 PM
Here's a related question:

Say that you have a VOP party member, and there's also a rogue in the party who is a complete ********** ******** **** ***** ****** ****. Said rogue hides more than his fair share, or even steals from the share of the VOP member, and is clever enough not to get caught. Or alternately shadily runs the charity fund the VOP player donates to. Does the VOP player lose any abilities? (Though I know for sure said rogue will get some abilities from the BOVD...)

Mewtarthio
2007-11-17, 09:08 PM
Here's an even more pertinent question:

Why all these VoP topics? I've got nothing against such questions, but it seems a bit odd to me that the Vow of Poverty gets discussed so much. It's from the Book of Exalted Deeds and essentially has a prerequesite of "this campaign is an exalted campaign." Do people really play exalted campaigns that much?

Ralfarius
2007-11-18, 12:21 AM
I don't think it's a matter of the exalted campaign being played, but rather people trying to figure out if the VoP is overall an asset or a detriment to their respective characters. Because, really, you can play a highly charitable character without forgoing any sort of expensive equipment, especially if the feat you take to do so doesn't pay you back fully for your sacrifice.

triforcel
2007-11-18, 12:22 AM
I believe that the majority of his share text is meant so that a vow of poverty character can repay the debts he might owe to the party. The vow allows him to borrow potions and other one use items from other players, and borrow implies that it will be returned so if a monk needs to use a potion of cure light wounds from the cleric, then when the party is dividing the treasure up the monk will first repay the clerics kindness and then devote the remainder of the treasure to charity as long as the remainder is the majority of his original share.

leperkhaun
2007-11-18, 05:56 AM
Here is how my group deals with it.

At least 85% of the VoP character's share must be given to an outside charity, which the character has to genuinly belive is legitamite.

Meaning that the character cant try to circimvent the rule by donating it to a charity ran by a party member or assosiate who turns around and gives the party other stuff.

The other 15% is for potions/wands/travel costs for the party.

As to the rogue stealing stuff...... it depends, if it happens once and the VoP character was not aware that it was her party member doing it then no i dont think he takes a hit.

If he knows about it, and just lets it go on...then yes he losses his benifets.

Most people tend to forget about the RP requirements for much of the things in BoED.