What does an artillerist artificer bring to the table?

[Rfkannen]

The artillerist artificer looks super odd. Its a fun concept, but for the life of me I can't figure what it actually DOES in gameplay. Its a half caster like a paladin or a ranger... but it lacks any martial capability. Sure you get some fun spells like fireball, but by the point you get them any full caster in the party would have moved past those spells into improved versions long ago.

The temporary hitpoints of the protector canon is nice, but the lack of scaling is going to make it less fun by mid levels. The damage canon's scale, but not by much. It feels like your suppose to be a cantrip blaster like the warlock, but when the warlock is getting an extra +5 per blast, your getting a single d8 per cantrip.

Years ago (during one of the playtests) I played one of these from levels 3 to 4 and had a great time, but at early levels you are only a spell level behind your wizard. When you are at level 17 you are a solid 4 spell levels behind a wizard, and I am not sure what you get to make up for that.

I am sure the subclass does fine, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. what does it bring to party? Does it seem equal to full casters at most levels? How have your experiences with it been?

[Evaar]

Spell-storing item with a homunculus to activate it. (An Artillerist can put Shatter into a Spell Storing Item to be used 10x per day by a homunculus at no action cost. A Battle Smith doesn't get Shatter.)

Cannons doing either extra damage or generating tons of THP and, later, cover for your allies.

Infusions, infusions, infusions baby.

Also, your blasting cantrips are better than a typical caster's.

Overall I would say an Artillerist has higher baseline throughput than a full caster, but the full caster can outmatch them when it comes to actual spells. Frankly, having played a high level Artificer recently, your infusions alone are nearly enough to justify a place in a party. Add Flash of Genius, and any group is happy to have an Artificer. So then just ask what kind of Artificer the Artillerist is going to make you - a cantrip spammer for solid damage, who utilizes supplemental effects to boost his damage even further.

Not to mention Wall of Force and Wall of Fire are great spells at any level.

[Thunderous Mojo]

My experiences match Evaar.

The THP from the Eldritch Canon stay relevant even as one advances in level. The D8 from Arcane Firearm makes a noticeable difference on damage output. Last Saturday the 12th level Wizard, Sorcerer, and Artillerist in a game I play in, each launched a Fireball spell at a gaggle of Driders.

The damage rolls for each of the Fireball spells were fairly close to expected average damage, which meant the Artillerist's Fireball has the highest damage of the three castings of the spell.

When the party was lower level but facing Rakshasas, the Artillerist pulled out a newly Infused Magic Shield and Melee Weapon and got to work on the frontline.

High Level Artificers being able to equip any Magic items, and more than 3 items, might seem like a sedate ability on the page, in play it can be quite an impressive option.

[RogueJK]

It feels like your suppose to be a cantrip blaster like the warlock, but when the warlock is getting an extra +5 per blast, your getting a single d8 per cantrip.

5th Level Warlock with 20 CHA: 2d10+10 Agonizing Eldritch Blast = Average 21 damage per turn (And likely 17-19, considering few 5th level Warlocks will have 20 CHA, with 16-18 CHA being more common)

5th level Artillerist: 2d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 2d8 Bonus Action Force Ballista = Average 24.5 damage per turn


11th level Warlock with 20 CHA: 3d10+15 Agonizing Eldritch Blast = Average 31.5 dmg per turn

11th level Artillerist: 3d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 3d8 BA Force Ballista = Average 34.5 dmg per turn


Seems to me like it'd be just as effective as a Warlock when it comes to resourceless ranged blasting... Slightly more so, in fact. Even if you go with a slightly less powerful cantrip like Ray of Frost doing d8 instead of d10, you're still on par/slightly ahead of Agonizing Eldritch Blast.

And that's not considering other stuff like Infusions to better increase your effectiveness, like creating yourself an Enhanced Arcane Focus.

You could even further increase the per-turn cantrip damage gap if your Artillerist is able to damage multiple enemies at a time with Arcane Firearm-boosted Create Bonfire, for example.

[stoutstien]

The artillerist artificer looks super odd. Its a fun concept, but for the life of me I can't figure what it actually DOES in gameplay. Its a half caster like a paladin or a ranger... but it lacks any martial capability. Sure you get some fun spells like fireball, but by the point you get them any full caster in the party would have moved past those spells into improved versions long ago.

The temporary hitpoints of the protector canon is nice, but the lack of scaling is going to make it less fun by mid levels. The damage canon's scale, but not by much. It feels like your suppose to be a cantrip blaster like the warlock, but when the warlock is getting an extra +5 per blast, your getting a single d8 per cantrip.

Years ago (during one of the playtests) I played one of these from levels 3 to 4 and had a great time, but at early levels you are only a spell level behind your wizard. When you are at level 17 you are a solid 4 spell levels behind a wizard, and I am not sure what you get to make up for that.

I am sure the subclass does fine, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. what does it bring to party? Does it seem equal to full casters at most levels? How have your experiences with it been?

If you try to play any type of partial progression caster like a full caster you are going have issues. Artillerists are flexible enough to do about anything so it's less about what role they are as it's about what is needed in the situation the party has.
There already been posts about how the damage and THP generation are completive so let's look at everything else.
Infusions- semi permanent buffs that are definitely more impactful than a lot of spells.

Ritual/prepared spell casting- spell slot economy and flexibility to make most full casters jealous.

Armor and save proficiencies- medium/shields and con saves.

More attunement slots- break reality

Spell storing item- break the action economy

Flags of genius- break bad rolls

Capstone- go face tank anything you want.

[kaervaak]

Artillerists do two things well:

Support with the protector cannon and CC spells like web and faerie fire. This should probably be your go to unless you're up against lots of enemies. The protector cannon can spit out a truly stupid amount of damage mitigation as a bonus action. Stick the turret on your front liners (it's tiny and can ride them or crawl into their backpack or hide behind their shield for safety) and let it keep them nice and safe. You can then help from the back (or front if you want since you should have good AC and decent HP) by casting faerie fire, grease, web, haste, elemental weapon, etc. Use flash of genius to help people pass crucial saves and ability checks. This does start to fall off at higher levels, but until your other cannons scale at level 9 the protector cannon is just crazy strong. Artillerists are the least infusion hungry of the artificer subclasses, so they can hand out infusions to the rest of the party without impacting their performance.

AOE damage with the flamethrower turret. As long as you can hit at least 2 targets with the flamethrower, it will allow you to keep pace with just about any martial in terms of DPS. Toss in sword burst or acid splash with your arcane firearm for more boosted AOE (or toss a fireball or shatter to really wreck mobs). You can use the homunculus servant to carry your flamethrower around to rain death down from above (depending on interpretation, this hits a 15' radius circle on the ground if fired straight down from 15 feet in the air). If you get an all-purpose tool, a melee artillerist using shillelagh and booming blade can do some excellent DPR (18d8 + int + 2 if you can trigger the BB rider and use double turrets with knockback)

Artificers are also surprisingly tanky. Medium armor + shields + infusions + flash of genius + the shield spell + absorb elements + protector cannon can make you extremely hard to damage. You also get some very nice control spells such as faerie fire, web, and wall of force.

[KorvinStarmast]

My experiences match Evaar.

The THP from the Eldritch Canon stay relevant even as one advances in level.
The D8 from Arcane Firearm makes a noticeable difference on damage output.
Seen the same thing. :smallcool:

[Hael]

I find them very powerful in that late tier1, early tier 2 phase. Like amongst the best subclasses in the game. They have good (not great) damage. They have some CC and some utility. Excellent support capabilities.. They are (like all artificers) very tanky, but the temp hp thing is the big feature and it's borderline game breaking. It really makes it hard for the DM to strain a parties resources.

After lvl 8, some of the martials start to catch up and really separate damage wise. Meanwhile the full casters start getting game altering spells, but they have that niche during those lvls where they are really particularly impactful.

[MrCharlie]

Some common high level tricks-

1. Give whomever has the lowest CON an amulet of health. If they were crazy enough to start with a 10 or 12 CON then it's suddenly a 19, giving them 3 to 4 hit points a level. Even if it only increases someones hit points by 2 per level it's still incredible.

There is nothing quite like seeing the monk jump from 63 hit points to 119.

2. Use enhance ability in a spell storing item. Whenever someone wants to make an ability check, pass it to them. Now the party has virtually limitless advantage on skills and abilities, even if the DM limits the usefulness of the help action.

3. Put invisibility in a spell storing item. Now the entire party can actually attempt to stealth in broad daylight-this is one of the only ways, to my knowledge, to get invisibility on multiple people without burning very high level spell slots.

4. Load up on AC items so you are a tank. Medium armor isn't quite as efficient as heavy armor AC wise, but you can get into the low to mid 20's with minimal investment. You will be less effective than a battlesmith or armorer at this, but you're still going to be quite hard to hit.

There are also fun tricks involving giving an animal companion a belt of giant strength to make their grappling better, or a familiar a spell storing item with boomy boom spells in it, even ignoring tiny servant railgun exploits.

[Greywander]

Artificers in general:

Infusions. Magic items can be hard to come by, depending on your DM, and the uncertainty over which items you will find can make it difficult to realize certain build concepts. While you can't make every magic item, you can make quite a few, so you can ignore that to a limited degree. Magic items can be very helpful to the party, and you're generally better off sharing your infusions rather than hoarding them for yourself. Don't forget that artificers are a support class.

Support spells. Artificers are only half casters, so they don't get as many or as nice spells as full casters, but they have a nice selection to choose from that can be difficult to find all on the same full caster. A little cleric, a little druid, a little wizard... It's a nice mix to choose from.

Tools. All artificers get tool expertise, so make sure to take full advantage of it. You already get thieves' tools, but you can also pick up useful tool proficiencies from your background or during downtime, such as the disguise kit, forgery kit, herbalism kit, alchemist's supplies, vehicles (land and/or water), and so on. It's an odd spin on a skill monkey concept, since tools are more niche than skills, but you can get a lot of mileage out of this.

Spell-Storing Item. You can share a low level spell with your party. It has a lot of castings, too!

Artillerists in particular:

Protector cannon. I can't overstate how useful the temp HP is. It's not just for you, you can give it to your whole party (the range is pretty limited, though). It works even better with a paladin in the party. Normally, clustering up would be asking to be hit by an AoE, but the paladin will give everyone a bonus on the save, and your temp HP will take the edge off of the damage, potentially even blocking it entirely (especially if everyone passes the save). I know it doesn't seem like 1d8 + INT mod is much, but it adds up fast, round after round, and across each player. If you grant 9 temp HP to a party of five, and you all get hit by an AoE, you just blocked 45 damage in a single round.

Fortified Position. At 15th level, you can create a second cannon, which also activates with the same bonus action as your first cannon. So now you can blast while also handing out temp HP. Not only that, but both cannons also grant half cover to nearby allies, which means +2 to AC and DEX saves. There aren't a lot of features that give bonuses to AC, let alone allow you to give your entire party a bonus to AC, and without concentration.

Blasting. Fireball is on your expanded list, and always-prepared. That should be all you need to know. You also get a slight damage buff to all your damage spells. You're still hobbled by virtue of being a half caster, but considering everything else you can do it's well worth giving up full casting.

As a support class, artificers really shine when they make the rest of the party shine. You're a force multiplier, making the rest of your party exponentially stronger. And the Artillerist is the best of the bunch in that regard.

[RogueJK]

Blasting. Fireball is on your expanded list, and always-prepared. That should be all you need to know.

Not quite all you need to know, considering the usefulness of this is lessened by the fact that Fireball doesn't come online until Level 9, at which point full casters already have 4th and 5th level blast spells. (For example, this is around the time that many Sorcerers/Wizard start considering dropping Fireball as their go-to AoE in favor of upgrading to something like Synaptic Static.)

Not useless by any stretch, but Fireball is noticeably less impressive at Level 9+ than it is at Levels 5/6.

Still, it's adequate for a jack-of-all-trades class like the Artillerist Artificer, who can fill many roles while not necessarily being the best at any particular one.

[KnotaGuru]

5th Level Warlock with 20 CHA: 2d10+10 Agonizing Eldritch Blast = Average 21 damage per turn (And likely 17-19, considering few 5th level Warlocks will have 20 CHA, with 16-18 CHA being more common)

5th level Artillerist: 2d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 2d8 Bonus Action Force Ballista = Average 24.5 damage per turn


11th level Warlock with 20 CHA: 3d10+15 Agonizing Eldritch Blast = Average 31.5 dmg per turn

11th level Artillerist: 3d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 3d8 BA Force Ballista = Average 34.5 dmg per turn


Seems to me like it'd be just as effective as a Warlock when it comes to resourceless ranged blasting... Slightly more so, in fact. Even if you go with a slightly less powerful cantrip like Ray of Frost doing d8 instead of d10, you're still on par/slightly ahead of Agonizing Eldritch Blast.

And that's not considering other stuff like Infusions to better increase your effectiveness, like creating yourself an Enhanced Arcane Focus.

You could even further increase the per-turn cantrip damage gap if your Artillerist is able to damage multiple enemies at a time with Arcane Firearm-boosted Create Bonfire, for example.

I understand you're running this calculation not using spell slots, but you're doing a disservice to the warlock by not using their bonus action and skewing the results in favor of the artificer. Remember that actions, including bonus actions and concentration, are resources. So the true calculation should be:

5th Level Warlock with 20 CHA: 2d10+10 Agonizing Eldritch Blast plus bonus action hex of 1d6 per hit or 2d6 total= Average 21 (28 with hex) damage per turn

5th level Artillerist: 2d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 2d8 Bonus Action Force Ballista = Average 24.5 damage per turn


11th level Warlock with 20 CHA: 3d10+15 Agonizing Eldritch Blast plus bonus action hex of 1d6 per hit or 3d6 total = Average 31.5 (42 with hex) dmg per turn

11th level Artillerist: 3d10+1d8 Fire Bolt + 3d8 BA Force Ballista = Average 34.5 dmg per turn


Hex requires a spell slot but can last 8 hours at 5th level (24 hours at 11th level) and the warlock gets that spell slot back on a short rest. The artillerist cannon only lasts 1-hour and you only get 1 free use per long rest. Additional cannons will cost you a spell slot. Just throwing this out there so we can have a more even damage comparison.

It should also be noted that the artificer can use the Enhanced Arcane Focus infusion (count this as another limited resource) to give themselves a +1 (+2 at level 10) on spell attack rolls and ignore half cover. So the artificer is more likely to hit. Of course, the warlock could have a rod of the pact keeper at these levels, but that would take up an attunement slot (also a limited resource).

[stoutstien]

To be fair the artillerist can also get a 3d8 15 ft fire cone and a 4d8 force 20 ft radius globe out of a single 1st lv spell slot. That's assuming the only use the flamethrower for one turn before blowing it up.

So even without fireball they can lay down some AoE numbers.