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Emperor Demonking
2007-11-17, 12:39 PM
Does anyone know how the balor has a sword as a SU?

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-17, 12:50 PM
The same way a soul knife has a blade as a supernatural ability.

puppyavenger
2007-11-17, 12:52 PM
does it disapear like the whip?

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-17, 12:55 PM
yes

Death Throes (Ex)

When killed, a balor explodes in a blinding flash of light that deals 100 points of damage to anything within 100 feet (Reflex DC 30 half). This explosion automatically destroys any weapons the balor is holding.

The important stuff is in bold.
Although it may be possible to disarm him and run off with the sword.

Aquillion
2007-11-17, 03:13 PM
Don't forget that if you want to get technical, since a Balor's "Vorpal Sword" is an SU ability, the sword goes away in an AMF. It doesn't stop working; the Balor loses the ability that makes him have it, so it stops existing.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-17, 06:52 PM
The sword appears to be made out of fire or lightning, so I'd say it's like a soulknife.

Prometheus
2007-11-17, 11:32 PM
I'd rule that the sword is the Death Throes explosion and the Balor holds it like a Grim Trigger. To disarm it would be to subject everyone, Balor included, to its wrath.

Starbuck_II
2007-11-18, 12:25 AM
However, check the treasure that Balors drop? What again? Vorpal Sword so sword lives on.

Karsh
2007-11-18, 01:16 AM
I think the idea is that if you manage to disarm the Balor or otherwise wrest its sword from its grip, you get to keep it, but otherwise it gets blown up in Death Throes.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-18, 01:17 AM
So, the death throes destroy any weapons the balor is holding yet there is still a vorpal sword listed in its treasure. Clearly the balor has a back up vorpal sword in case the first one gets lost, or he has to pawn it for souls or whatever excuse fits the situation.

Jack Mann
2007-11-18, 01:31 AM
So, the death throes destroy any weapons the balor is holding yet there is still a vorpal sword listed in its treasure. Clearly the balor has a back up vorpal sword in case the first one gets lost, or he has to pawn it for souls or whatever excuse fits the situation.

To consider just how absurd this is, the Balor carries a vorpal longsword, but drops a vorpal greatsword.

This has been changed on d20srd.org, but not by the actual errata for the Monster Manual.

Rockphed
2007-11-18, 02:45 AM
Why does EVERY Ultimate incarnation of Chaos and Evil carry the EXACT SAME STUFF? I could see Pit Fiends all having the same stuff, but why Balors?

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-18, 03:21 AM
The obvious answer is that it saves money to buy magical gear in bulk, from your local bulk retailer like costco or the sam's club. There's a war goin on ya know? A blood war and we can't afford to let every single demon feel like they're a unique and precious flower when that money could be better spent buying them identical +1 vorpal longswords.

Aquillion
2007-11-18, 03:53 AM
Why does EVERY Ultimate incarnation of Chaos and Evil carry the EXACT SAME STUFF? I could see Pit Fiends all having the same stuff, but why Balors?My reading (from, again, the fact that the sword is listed as an Su ability of Balors, which is atypical) is that the sword is in fact somehow innate to a Balor's nature, something they somehow have the ability to produce or aquire automatically. This would imply that they can replace them if it's lost, although presumably not in the middle of an encounter or that would have been listed. The swords do vary in appearance slightly (flame or bolt of lightning, at least), so perhaps they reflect something of the personality of the Balor who creates them.

Hey. What does happen if the Balor gets disarmed, or just wants to drop the sword or give it away? The ability reads:


Vorpal Sword (Su)
Every balor carries a +1 vorpal longsword that looks like a flame or a bolt of lightning.Every Balor. No exceptions, ever.

If they lose the sword, do they lose their "Vorpal Sword" ability, too? Does it automatically create a new Vorpal Sword for them? Does the ability prevent them from doing anything that would result in them no longer carrying a "+1 vorpal longsword that looks like a flame or a bolt of lightning?" Is it similar to some really awful feat or class ability that only affects your starting equipment (and, if so, why on earth is it Su?)

The Glyphstone
2007-11-18, 06:59 AM
If they lose the sword, do they lose their "Vorpal Sword" ability, too? Does it automatically create a new Vorpal Sword for them? Does the ability prevent them from doing anything that would result in them no longer carrying a "+1 vorpal longsword that looks like a flame or a bolt of lightning?" Is it similar to some really awful feat or class ability that only affects your starting equipment (and, if so, why on earth is it Su?)


Awesome, a new way to break the D&D Economy - summon and bind Balors, then just keep disarming them of their +1 Vorpal Swords and going off to sell them, then going back and disarming the new sword.:smallsmile: :smallbiggrin:

Yuki Akuma
2007-11-18, 07:02 AM
Awesome, a new way to break the D&D Economy - summon and bind Balors, then just keep disarming them of their +1 Vorpal Swords and going off to sell them, then going back and disarming the new sword.:smallsmile: :smallbiggrin:

Wall of Iron is still more cost effective. And safer. :smallwink:

Hzurr
2007-11-18, 07:19 AM
Awesome, a new way to break the D&D Economy - summon and bind Balors, then just keep disarming them of their +1 Vorpal Swords and going off to sell them, then going back and disarming the new sword.:smallsmile: :smallbiggrin:

Wow. That seems like a horribly bad idea. I mean, in the list of monsters you don't want upset with you, I'd put Balors pretty high on the list. And you're not just doing it to one or two Balors, no, you're doing it to dozens.

HOW IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

leperkhaun
2007-11-18, 07:28 AM
Wow. That seems like a horribly bad idea. I mean, in the list of monsters you don't want upset with you, I'd put Balors pretty high on the list. And you're not just doing it to one or two Balors, no, you're doing it to dozens.

HOW IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

Hehe i could see my DM allowing us to do that..... then paying the consequence when 2 dozen balors decide to pay us back.

But anyway, i agree that this would be in the BAD idea category.

The Glyphstone
2007-11-18, 08:07 AM
Okay, do it with 1 balor then. It'll be slower, but you're still earning 36,000 GP from every sword he makes and you sell - (72000/2). Twenty swords sold will give you almost the extra WBL of a 20th level character.

Heck, if you want to be really ridiculous, try to argue that the ability means he creates a new sword anytime he doesn't have one as a free action. That's one sword per round, 10 swords per minute, 600 swords per hour, 14400 swords per day. If you can sell them all (go to Sigil or someplace) you're making 518,400,000 Per Balor Per Day. :smallcool:

Citizen Joe
2007-11-18, 10:02 AM
I would like to know where all these people are with 36K gold... I say just rob them and bypass the whole fighting a balor thing.

kamikasei
2007-11-18, 10:06 AM
I would like to know where all these people are with 36K gold... I say just rob them and bypass the whole fighting a balor thing.

You only have to subdue one balor and then keep him under, while you would have to rob many, many people with 36000 gp of liquid cash (and presumably therefore plenty more money in defenses).

As to where you find them: Sigil. :smallbiggrin:

Kami2awa
2007-11-18, 10:08 AM
Why does EVERY Ultimate incarnation of Chaos and Evil carry the EXACT SAME STUFF? I could see Pit Fiends all having the same stuff, but why Balors?

That's a very good point. To my view, ALL powerful demons/devils should be statted as individuals with individual names, powers and stats. Balors are as powerful as many dragons (by CR) and their inclusion in a game should be a major plot point; they deserve status as full NPCs. Giving them individual weapons, appearance and powers to go which the demon lord they serve would be cool.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-18, 10:09 AM
I would like to know where all these people are with 36K gold... I say just rob them and bypass the whole fighting a balor thing.

Well, obviously they're somewhere that all the adventurers go to. You could kill them, but then all their clients will get mad at you. I guess it's your choice: Would you rather tick off Balors or the kinds of people who trade in +1 vorpal longswords?

rickvoid
2007-11-18, 10:10 AM
My reading (from, again, the fact that the sword is listed as an Su ability of Balors, which is atypical) is that the sword is in fact somehow innate to a Balor's nature, something they somehow have the ability to produce or aquire automatically.

So it's like the player ability to summon quarterstaves at will, seeing as they have no value, no crafting time, and no material components by RAW. That's kinda neat.

Kami2awa
2007-11-18, 10:11 AM
My reading (from, again, the fact that the sword is listed as an Su ability of Balors, which is atypical) is that the sword is in fact somehow innate to a Balor's nature, something they somehow have the ability to produce or aquire automatically. This would imply that they can replace them if it's lost, although presumably not in the middle of an encounter or that would have been listed. The swords do vary in appearance slightly (flame or bolt of lightning, at least), so perhaps they reflect something of the personality of the Balor who creates them.

Hey. What does happen if the Balor gets disarmed, or just wants to drop the sword or give it away? The ability reads:

Every Balor. No exceptions, ever.

If they lose the sword, do they lose their "Vorpal Sword" ability, too? Does it automatically create a new Vorpal Sword for them? Does the ability prevent them from doing anything that would result in them no longer carrying a "+1 vorpal longsword that looks like a flame or a bolt of lightning?" Is it similar to some really awful feat or class ability that only affects your starting equipment (and, if so, why on earth is it Su?)

Maybe Balors without swords kill themselves (like dishonoured Samurai) - or without their sword, the other Balors view them as weakened and destroy them on sight. Maybe they can't even live without the sword; it might be bound to them or contain their soul.

A campaign where a Balor is trying to find and reclaim his stolen sword would be really cool...

Raolin_Fenix
2007-11-18, 02:24 PM
If I remember rightly, in 3.0 or something, if you held a Balor's sword, you died. Period. So if you disarm the thing, that's it for you until you find 5,000 GP's worth of diamonds. I know because it happened to my monk once. :P

That being said, 3.0 (or whichever version it was) is gone, so I'm not sure how these things work now. That's just how it used to be.

Chronos
2007-11-18, 02:26 PM
To consider just how absurd this is, the Balor carries a vorpal longsword, but drops a vorpal greatsword.This is probably a holdover from 3.0, which made no distinction between a greatsword sized for a medium-sized creature and a longsword sized for a large creature. So relative to the presumably medium-sized folks who killed the balor, the sword's great, but relative to the large-sized balor, it's only long.

If you're really itching for outer-planar swords, though, steal them from Solars, instead. Their vorpal swords are +5 and dancing, which puts them well into the epic range. Market value 1,392,000 GP, if I'm not mistaken.

martyboy74
2007-11-18, 02:30 PM
Sure, but the forces of law and good work together, unfprtunately. The other Balors, on the other hand, probably don't care that another one was harvested.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-18, 02:39 PM
A campaign where a Balor is trying to find and reclaim his stolen sword would be really cool...

Yoink....:smallbiggrin:

Jacob Orlove
2007-11-18, 03:41 PM
Awesome, a new way to break the D&D Economy - summon and bind Balors, then just keep disarming them of their +1 Vorpal Swords and going off to sell them, then going back and disarming the new sword.:smallsmile: :smallbiggrin:
It's much easier than that.
Step one: cast Shapechange (which grants (Su) abilities)
Step two: turn into a Balor
Step three: profit!

Mewtarthio
2007-11-18, 03:46 PM
As a side note, the power true mind switch doesn't give you supernatural abilities. Therefore, if you used that power to become a Balor permanently, you wouldn't get the sword. I wonder what would happen to it then. And why, exactly, you'd lose the sword but keep the crazy whip tricks and the Death Throes (yeah, holding a sword is just plain Supernatural, but exploding is perfectly mundane, as is wrapping people up by whipping them).

Aquillion
2007-11-18, 06:56 PM
Awesome, a new way to break the D&D Economy
Step one: cast Shapechange (which grants (Su) abilities)Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Jacob Orlove
2007-11-18, 07:24 PM
Well, yeah. Besides, turning into Phoenixes is much cooler than turning into Balors.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-19, 08:10 AM
Here's another question: why isn't the whip a (Su) ability? This implies that while Balors are apparently 'born' with flaming swords, they still all end up with the same manufactured whip. There's got to be some kind of +1 flaming whip assembly line somewhere in the Abyss. Maybe layer 482 is the dreaded 'Whip Processing Plant... of Chaos'. And on that note, what kind of demon would be happy spending eternity making the same item over and over again? I bet they get them smuggled in from Hell.

Keld Denar
2007-11-19, 08:26 AM
Here's another question: why isn't the whip a (Su) ability? This implies that while Balors are apparently 'born' with flaming swords, they still all end up with the same manufactured whip. There's got to be some kind of +1 flaming whip assembly line somewhere in the Abyss. Maybe layer 482 is the dreaded 'Whip Processing Plant... of Chaos'. And on that note, what kind of demon would be happy spending eternity making the same item over and over again? I bet they get them smuggled in from Hell.

The whips are manufactured by the souls of the damned who made a deal with a Demon while alive. The workers are resentful of this labor though, and go to great lengths to sabatoge the whips during manufacture. As such 1 in 10 balor whips is subject to jam (5% chance) when used, preventing further use of the whip until the balor takes a round to untangle it. Such disobediance would normally get a damned soul killed, but since they are already dead, they just get forced to an eternity of being beaten repeatedly by a balor whip.

Hyozo
2007-11-19, 09:32 AM
Wow. That seems like a horribly bad idea. I mean, in the list of monsters you don't want upset with you, I'd put Balors pretty high on the list. And you're not just doing it to one or two Balors, no, you're doing it to dozens.

HOW IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

It's safer than pulling off the same trick with Solar bows...