Ways a magical 5e world would resemble ours instead of Midievil Europe?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

In a couple of the worlds I play or run magic has an effect on how society functions. What are your touches?

I've seen:

-Virtually instant communications for the military and Royalty via sending stones or old mages using the Sending spell.

-Trade guilds in charge of teleportation circles. One even wanted to charge the party for appearing on one and messing up a shipment.

-Magical healing and healing which can drive diamond demand and financially ruin even wealthy families.

-"Video Bloggers" who can use attuned eye patches and a crystal ball. Maybe even to sway the idle children of the wealthy.

-Dinosaurs dragging "trains" down a track under the control of corporate Druids, er engineers.

[JackPhoenix]

So, Eberron?

[Bobthewizard]

From a dynamic economic perspective, I've always thought the 300gp of diamonds type spells could be funny. As diamond demand increases, so does the overall price of diamonds. But since you only need 300gp worth, as the price increases, you would need less diamonds to cast the spell.

In the other direction, if diamonds became completely worthless, you could never cast the spell. 1 ton of diamonds that are worth nothing is still less than the 300gp you would need.

[stoutstien]

From a dynamic economic perspective, I've always thought the 300gp of diamonds type spells could be funny. As diamond demand increases, so does the overall price of diamonds. But since you only need 300gp worth, as the price increases, you would need less diamonds to cast the spell.

In the other direction, if diamonds became completely worthless, you could never cast the spell. 1 ton of diamonds that are worth nothing is still less than the 300gp you would need.

I actually had a plot arch based on this. A certain trading group was manipulating the prices by flooding the market so they could murder the other guilds(in more than one way) then buy up all the stock again in the cheap causing prices to skyrocket so they could again sell it.

[Unoriginal]

In a couple of the worlds I play or run magic has an effect on how society functions. What are your touches?

Many of the limitations of 5e magic make it unlikely for it to influence the world the same way as industrialized technology does.

So while there is many things that will be different from the medieval/Renaissance period, I don't think it'll look much like our world either.



-Virtually instant communications for the military and Royalty via sending stones or old mages using the Sending spell.

-Trade guilds in charge of teleportation circles. One even wanted to charge the party for appearing on one and messing up a shipment.

-Magical healing and healing which can drive diamond demand and financially ruin even wealthy families.

-"Video Bloggers" who can use attuned eye patches and a crystal ball. Maybe even to sway the idle children of the wealthy.

Those ignore a lot of the limits of 5e magic and spells.



-Dinosaurs dragging "trains" down a track under the control of corporate Druids, er engineers.

I like the visual, but I'm not sure dinosaurs would be particularly better at pulling trains in term of speed or pulling capacity than, say, elephants.

Now a bunch of mammoths would be pretty great to haul goods in remote mountains or icy areas...

[Burley]

I'm planning a Kids with Brooms game, which is like Harry Potter, I guess, in that its modern enough but magic will mess with non-magic technology.

-Brooms and magic carpets replace cars and planes.
-Oneiromancy is used for a type of internet accessible while sleeping. Special beds can be scheduled for those who don't study Oneiromancy themselves, but the O-mancers are like hot-shot web developers, as they can expertly craft and facilitate dream needs.


I think smartphones are the hard thing to crack. Its not just the ability to communicate with people. We have, literally, all of the world's knowledge in our pockets. How do you offer that kind of access magically without having hundreds of teenagers blowing up their neighborhoods?

[Bobthewizard]

I think smartphones are the hard thing to crack. Its not just the ability to communicate with people. We have, literally, all of the world's knowledge in our pockets. How do you offer that kind of access magically without having hundreds of teenagers blowing up their neighborhoods?

At-will Sending for texting. Internet could be replicated by at-will Legend Lore. So cellphones are devices that allow unlimited use of those two spells.

Could also use Divination flavoring the response as news that they find on the internet. "Oh, so and so is going to be at the King's ball tomorrow."

[Khrysaes]

Many questions affect this.

One big one is the presence of creatures that are hostile to the spread of civilization.

Humans spread how we did because we developed the tools to take on the beasts becoming the apex species.

But what happens if humans aren't the apex species? What about other intelligent species? What about intelligent but hostile species?

If it were just the presence of magic, or using magic to replace functions in modern earth, those are fairly easy parallels, though the history of development would absolutely change.

[Anonymouswizard]

The presence of Wizards suggests that magic can be studied. The presence of Artificers suggests that magic can be exploited. The hard part is that, RAW, creating magical items requires an adventure per item.

Without going full Eberron then the people who get reliable access to magic are those who can patronise a Wizard (or more ideally an Artificer), or more likely a spellcaster noble with a trusted chancellor who runs the barony/county/duchy/kingdom/empire day to day. Which probably means a lot of magic used for grand works, espionage, and warfare, and little on smartphones. I suspect you'll see a lot more canal networks popping up, especially if you can get magically powered barges.

[KorvinStarmast]

So, Eberron?
a. Start with the cantrips like mending, that make life a little bit easier by fixing things; how many people can use that cantrip becomes the question. One in a thousand? One in ten thousand? One in a hundred?
Follow with prestidigitation that makes cleaning a lot easier. Your magic infused setting will have a cleaner general appearance than actual Medieval Europe. (By the way, can you get your title to be spelled correctly?).
b. Use minor illusion and you'll never need to make a powerpoint presentation again. :smallbiggrin: (We more or less did this in the jungles of Chult with the bard using minor illusion to show some goblins what we'd been doing, and using Comprehend languages to discern their response).

c. Consider the retired paladins (who no longer adventure) who set up free clinics in the dirty cities where they cure diseases by laying on hands a few times per day.

d. Teleportation circles are expensive to make, (cast once per day for a year at X gp in gems per day) but once that infrastructure is in place you've got FedEx for those who can afford the very high fees that service would demand.

e. Divination: casinos would be on the lookout for hustlers who can change a die roll. :smallwink:

f. Comprehend languages: not sure how many people would have this spell, and at what level you assume magic to function, but this would go a long way toward boosting both international trade and intercultural liaison.

g. Firebolt: small time robbery and arson would be a commonplace.

h. Shape Water: old fashioned ice boxes, like in the 1920's, could use chunks of ice made by that cantrip.

i. True Polymorph: create a squadron of young silver dragons. You now have a helicopter emergency medical service (HEMS) analogue, but with Dragons! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
I sat down with my DM as I planned out what I'd do when I got to level 17. I just did, and I took true polymorph for a spell. Strictly speaking, I could get a big enough hunk of wood or a big enough hunk of rock each day and by concentrating for an hour, end up with a young silver dragon (CR 9). He has asked me to not do that, since he has not figured out where the soul of that dragon would come from. So I am holding off.
Feed the dragon, treat it well, and - being a lawful good creature - it might with a few of its friends who were also TP'd serve in that HEMS role. :smallsmile: (Look, helicopters are expensive to run, and a dragon might get expensive to feed, so the analogy goes a few levels deep, right?).

j. Temples/Shrines/Churches would become places of healing, and then hospitals.

k. Crop yields would increase without using fertilizer: druid spell Plant Growth

And so on.

The issue to hand is, though, what is the density of magic using creatures? If they are very rare only a few would be able to perform their spells and scarcity would inform demand. Which means prices for magic services would be really high, and only the rich would afford them (unless, as in the paladin example above, certain services are provided pro bono due to an ideology or ethos)

[rlc]

I'm planning a Kids with Brooms game, which is like Harry Potter, I guess, in that its modern enough but magic will mess with non-magic technology.

-Brooms and magic carpets replace cars and planes.
-Oneiromancy is used for a type of internet accessible while sleeping. Special beds can be scheduled for those who don't study Oneiromancy themselves, but the O-mancers are like hot-shot web developers, as they can expertly craft and facilitate dream needs.


I think smartphones are the hard thing to crack. Its not just the ability to communicate with people. We have, literally, all of the world's knowledge in our pockets. How do you offer that kind of access magically without having hundreds of teenagers blowing up their neighborhoods?

i can still see a lot of things being invented for a lot of the same reasons why they were invented in our world.
communication would be aided by magic, as it is in the game, but there's only so far that goes when you're trying to do it on a massive scale, like we can do now.
one thing i can think of that probably wouldn't be needed is nuclear weapons, but only because they're most likely equally as expensive as casting meteor, if not moreso.

[ChaosStar]

One thing I've noticed is that Fantasy worlds are usually more accepting of LGBTQIA than modern society. I do believe the presence of Magic is responsible for this as it helps smooth over many difficulties.

[jjordan]

Ways a fantasy word resembles ours rather than a Medieval Europe?
-The idea that all individuals enjoy the same level of individual worth and rights.
-The existence of police forces.
-The existence of jails and prisons that have individual cells.
-Shops that are open on other than market days.
-Ordering whatever food you want at a restaurant rather than eating whatever they've prepared.
-Working professionals that aren't living within a week of starvation.
-The idea that you can shop off the shelf from a wide selection rather than taking what they have or commissioning custom work.

[KorvinStarmast]

-Ordering whatever food you want at a restaurant rather than eating whatever they've prepared. In my games, whatever's in the pot is what's dinner at the local tavern.
In Curse of Strahd , we ran into an inn called Blood on the Vine; they had one kind of wine, and one pot of food. Eat what was in the pot or go hungry

[dafrca]

One thing I've noticed is that Fantasy worlds are usually more accepting of LGBTQIA than modern society. I do believe the presence of Magic is responsible for this as it helps smooth over many difficulties.
I sometimes wonder if that is true or if it is just our society influencing the fantasy settings?

I have often thought about magic and its real influence on society and wondered does magic really change all the things that are attributed to it in our fantasy settings we play today? Does magic really change the level of acceptance of "differences" just because it is magic. The new way of thinking in fantasy seems, to me, more about our own social changes. Of course I could be wrong. Would not be the first time nor the last I suspect. :smallsmile:

[greenstone]

Isn't this what the Tippyverse is about?

[jjordan]

I sometimes wonder if that is true or if it is just our society influencing the fantasy settings?

I have often thought about magic and its real influence on society and wondered does magic really change all the things that are attributed to it in our fantasy settings we play today? Does magic really change the level of acceptance of "differences" just because it is magic. The new way of thinking in fantasy seems, to me, more about our own social changes. Of course I could be wrong. Would not be the first time nor the last I suspect. :smallsmile:
In a world with multiple, sentient species that coexist in varying degrees of peace and who can destroy buildings with fireballs, gender identity and sexual preferences are put in their proper perspective; no big deal.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Aside from pointing out, as others have, that this is Eberron's whole niche.

There are so many cascades that come from this type of thing.

Let's tell a fun story about a character I ran in a not-eberron game. But where the Dragonmark races were allowed.

I was a Ghallandra Hafling Wizard. At level 4 we had enough money that we wanted a base. I convinced the group that we should open a restaurant. Our home up top and I'd run the restaurant as a cover. It was a City based game so we weren't going anywhere.

To give the important details of my build. Feat: Chef, Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Mending, Dancing Lights, Light. First Level spells: Unseen Servant, Good berry. (There's more but that's all that matters here).

I no longer needed any type of fuel source for cooking food, no lighting sources needed, After the initial cost of buying the place and getting it equipped the only real cost became breakage and food itself.

I proceeded to undercut the local economy and slowly drive every restaurant near me out of business. I also serve smaller portions "Cooked in the Halfling way, guaranteed to fill your belly." I'd cook the meal, set a goodberry with it, customers walked away fat and happy.

This was me casually making a sit down restaurant as a flavor/cover for an adventuring base. Imagine what happens when some Druid or Wizard come up with the idea as their only really focus? You will kill the restaurant economy until the secret is out, and then you've effectively cornered the economy to those with access to certain magics.


In a world with multiple, sentient species that coexist in varying degrees of peace and who can destroy buildings with fireballs, gender identity and sexual preferences are put in their proper perspective; no big deal.

I'm sure Fantasy worlds have racists and bigots. But for casual issues, deterrence via fear of violence is a thing. It's why it's always beyond comical when you have X-Men shows constantly show people picking on Scott AFTER they know what he is. Look, if you deliberately hassle the person who can throw (Fire/Force/Ice/Lightning) at you and potentially kill you, you're going to learn to NOT do that, or die relatively quickly.

[strangebloke]

completely and totally depends on the ubiquity of magic in your setting of choice

5e isn't a prescriptive system that dictates how the setting works. The PC rules are for PCs and for no one else. It is generally assumed that there will be NPCs with functional but similar abilities but that's not always going to be the case. This is true for everything. High Elves have free cantrips when they're PCs but NPC high elves usually don't have cantrips. Just for one example.

This look very different if you're in Eberron (lots of low level magic, somewhat similar to the modern world in places) or Forgotten Realms (tons of magic, incredibly different from our world both now and in the medieval period) or Dragonlance (kind of similar to our world in the medieval period except for a bit of magic and dragons)

In other words what I'm telling you is, 5e allows your setting to be whatever you want it to be. I know a friend who's playing a campaign set in WWI except they're all soldiers who just got magic powers and a bunch of demons have showed up.

[Anonymouswizard]

One thing I've noticed is that Fantasy worlds are usually more accepting of LGBTQIA than modern society. I do believe the presence of Magic is responsible for this as it helps smooth over many difficulties.

Eh, I don't really think magic is the reason. Especially for trans and genderqueer acceptance, one character I made but never got to play went into magic just to express their gender only to find out that any kind of permanent sex changing magic was multiple spell levels above him

I think it's more related to how there tend to be relative gender equality, but as to that...


I sometimes wonder if that is true or if it is just our society influencing the fantasy settings?

dafrca has it. The settings are more equal and inclusive because that's what the writers want. I'm sure if we went back to the 'only (straight) men okay D&D'* era we'd find a lot more male lords surrounded by practically topless women.

* Which I believe was never actually true.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm sure Fantasy worlds have racists and bigots. But for casual issues, deterrence via fear of violence is a thing. It's why it's always beyond comical when you have X-Men shows constantly show people picking on Scott AFTER they know what he is. Look, if you deliberately hassle the person who can throw (Fire/Force/Ice/Lightning) at you and potentially kill you, you're going to learn to NOT do that, or die relatively quickly.

That goes both ways. The person who can throw fire/force/ice/lightning will also learn that they shouldn't do that over insults, unless they wanted to be labeled murderer and potentially have a party of more competent killers send their way.

It's not like racism disappeared just because the other guy may have a gun.

[Unoriginal]

One thing I've noticed is that Fantasy worlds are usually more accepting of LGBTQIA than modern society. I do believe the presence of Magic is responsible for this as it helps smooth over many difficulties.

Many societies and cultures thorough history were far more open to LGBTQIA than modern society.

The lack of magic isn't the reason for the lack of acceptance.

But let's not break the forum's rules, we're already on the line as it is.



I'm sure Fantasy worlds have racists and bigots. But for casual issues, deterrence via fear of violence is a thing. It's why it's always beyond comical when you have X-Men shows constantly show people picking on Scott AFTER they know what he is. Look, if you deliberately hassle the person who can throw (Fire/Force/Ice/Lightning) at you and potentially kill you, you're going to learn to NOT do that, or die relatively quickly.


That goes both ways. The person who can throw fire/force/ice/lightning will also learn that they shouldn't do that over insults, unless they wanted to be labeled murderer and potentially have a party of more competent killers send their way.

It's not like racism disappeared just because the other guy may have a gun.

Yeah, it's very common to see bullies and harassers pick on people who could objectively destroy them if they fought back, but who won'/can't by fear of the results and the consequences.

Scott doesn't want to murder jerks with his eye beams, because 1) he doesn't want to be a murderer 2) if he killed people he's be a wanted criminal and 3) if he killed people it would negatively impact all mutants. The jerks know that. So they know they can pick on Scott without fear.

If those bullies tried the same on Magneto, Quicksilver or even the Toad, it'd be a whole different outcome, which is why most won't do it unless they don't recognize who they're picking on.

[Potato_Priest]

k. Crop yields would increase without using fertilizer: druid spell Plant Growth


My prediction is that instead, farming would become a posh hobby of elites and real food a luxury as most people compulsorily learn the goodberry spell. It's a 1st level spell after all in a class with a pretty low lore barrier for entry- connection to nature. And as farming becomes less common, there's more nature to connect to.

[KorvinStarmast]

My prediction is that instead, farming would become a posh hobby of elites and real food a luxury as most people compulsorily learn the goodberry spell.
Hardly. The OP has not posited just how common magic is.
In 5e as it stands now, PCs are who have spell levels - commoner's do not.
Some NPCs have spell levels. (CR 2 druid for example).