Need Arcane Archer Build Tips

[frankbelmont]

Hi wonderful people! We are starting a new campaign at level3. I rolled some pretty sweet but sub-optimal stats 14/12/12/11/11/9. After a bit of thinking (and ignoring the internet powerwhiners) I decided to play an Arcane Archer. The build will look like this: High Elf with true strike cantrip. Final Stats Str:11 Dex:16 Con:12 Int:12 Wis:12 Cha:9. Archery Fighting Style. Skills:Athletics, Survival (fighter), Perception (elf), Insight, Stealth, gaming set, thieves' tools (urban bounty hunter), Nature, druidcraft cantrip (Arcane Archer) and Bursting Arrow, Shadow Arrow. I lean into the naturalistic aspect of the elf not magic. I chose true strike cause I think it synergies with the arcane shot and both options I picked don't require a check for extra dmg only to land the hit, so I think I don't need intelligence. I picked Athletics over Acrobatics for positioning advantage and for acrobatics I can you my dex. Given that multiclass, damage cantrips, unearthed arcana is forbidden. I ask your opinion on the following: Should I drop true strike and pick Message or sth else? Should I try and squeeze acrobatics in skills? Should I pick Sharpshooter at level 4 or level 6? I don't care about ultra optimization or powergaming or variant humans I just need your opinion if this build is working or how can it be made working simply. Thank you in advance.

[nickl_2000]

I wouldn't bother with True Strike. the amazing thing about Arcane Archer is that you declare that you are using the shot after you have already hit. So, the advantage on the attack doesn't make it so that you waste your Arcane Shot as often.

I would look at something more useful for you in general play.



As for sharpshooter, I would pick it up at either 4, 6, or 8 depending on a few things.
1) How often enemies are using cover
2) How often you allies are able to give you advantage
3) How often you are shooting at long range.

The curving shot ability at level 7 really makes Sharpshooter even more enticing since you have an extra chance for all your shots to hit.

[RogueJK]

Do not bother taking True Strike. Arcane Shot isn't applied until you hit with an attack, so you don't have to worry about wasting it if you miss.

Even besides that fact, True Strike uses your Action in the first turn, to give you Advantage on the first Attack in your second turn. But it's strictly worse than just taking the Attack Action on both the first and second turns, and this problem is exacerbated once you get high enough level to have 2/3/4 attacks per turn.

True Strike
Round 1: Cast True Strike
Round 2: Roll 2d20 for an attack
Total: 2d20, but only the possibility of 1 or 0 hit.

Standard Attack
Round 1: Roll 1d20 for an attack
Round 2: Roll 1d20 for an attack
Total: 2d20, for the possibility of 2, 1, or 0 hits.


And then

True Strike Extra Attack
Round 1: Cast True Strike
Round 2: Roll 2d20 for one attack, then 1d20 for a second attack
Total: 3d20, but only the possibility of 2/1/0 hits.

Standard Extra Attack
Round 1: Roll 2d20 for 2 attacks
Round 2: Rolle 2d20 for 2 attacks
Total: 4d20, for the possibility of 4/3/2/1/0 hits.


Extrapolate out for 3 or 4 attacks, and the gap gets even wider, with Extra Attack in every case giving you 2x as many chances to hit, and a greater overall probability of hitting.



Plus, True Strike requires Concentration, so you run the risk of casting it in Round 1, then taking damage before your next turn in Round 2, losing Concentration, and then having completely wasted that Round 1 Action for zero benefit. Or, the enemy on which you cast it might be killed before your next turn, again making it so that you wasted your initial Action on casting True Strike.


Unfortunately, True Strike is a serious trap, with practically no scenarios for any character (yes any, not just this Arcane Archer) in which it is worthwhile to use. Run away, as fast as you can.

[frankbelmont]

Wow thank you I hadn't thought of all that about true strike. The combo I had in mind was Round 1: True Strike. Round 2: Action Surge: Shadow Arrow, Attack1 then Attack2. If shadow arrow succeeds I have advantage in the next regular 2 attacks I can do which makes sharpshooter easier. I think but I'm not sure I can use sharpshooter with both bursting and shadow arrow.

[BigRedJedi]

Take Mold Earth for utility, instead of True Strike, and make your own breastworks on many battlefields with a single action. Tremendously useful outside of combat and every archer can benefit from create-your-own cover.

[Witty Username]

I would take a look at grasping arrow, it is a nasty debuff that doesn't allow a saving throw and is likely to cost an action from the target.

[dafrca]

Arcane Archer is one I have not tried so I am taking note. Please continue.... :smallbiggrin:

[J-H]

If you want a True Strike type effect, take a dip in Rogue and use Steady Aim to give yourself advantage instead.
Note: Blocks off a 4th attack at 20th level if you're going that far.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Build a Battlemaster. Refluff abilities as an AA. Poof: you get twice as many Arcane Shots.

[Garfunion]

Take 3 levels of genie warlock-pact of the blade-improved pact weapon invocation and the rest of your levels as battle master fighter.

This will give you a +1 magic bow that can do extra damage once per turn and a once per day bag of holding that you can sleep in.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, the sad truth is that there are at least a half dozen better ways to build an "arcane archer" without using the grossly subpar Arcane Archer subclass.

- College of Swords Bardcher: Full Bard spellcasting, Extra Attack, Blade Flourishes can be used with ranged attacks for "special arrows", and you can poach higher level Ranger archery spells like Swift Quiver using Magical Secrets. Consider starting with a level of Fighter for CON save proficiency, longbow proficiency (if you didn't get it from your race), and Archery fighting style. Maybe even eventually taking 2 levels for Action Surge.

- College of Valor Bardcher: Similar to the above, except you already get martial weapon proficiency from your subclass, and while you don't have any nifty trick arrows, you can buff ally damage/defense instead, and eventually get the ability to shoot an arrow as a Bonus Action when you cast a spell that turn. Less appealing as a Bardcher than Swords, but still a better magical archer than the Arcane Archer.

- Hexblade Bladelock Archer: CHA-SAD with medium armor so you can get by with a 14ish DEX if needed, full Warlock spellcasting, Extra Attack from Thirsting Blade, can use Smite spells like Branding/Banishing Smite with ranged attacks for "special arrows", and can pile on extra damage with things like Hex, Hexblade's Curse, and Eldritch Smite. Refluff your leveled spells into shooting "magical arrows". Will probably want a level of Fighter or the Fighting Initiate feat for Archery fighting style to help offset Sharpshooter penalty.

- Tomelock "Eldritch Blast Faux-Archer": Full Warlock spellcasting, extra cantrips, and ritual spells from Book of Ancient Secrets. Eldritch Blast gets the equivalent of full Fighter Extra Attack progression, for up to 4x attacks per turn. Use a curved staff arcane focus as your "bow" while firing Agonizing+ Repelling Eldritch Blast "magic arrows" and refluffing your leveled spells into shooting "special arrows". Any Warlock subclass can pull this off, but Dao Genie or Fiend seem the most directly useful: Dao Genie gets Spike Growth for added damage from Repelling Blast shoves plus a bit of added damage each turn; Fiend gets Fireball and Wall of Fire for extra AoE blasting. And your range can rival a Sharpshooter Longbow through the Eldritch Spear invocation and Spell Sniper feat. (Funny how one of the best "archers" in the game doesn't even use any actual bows/arrows...) You could also do Warlock 2/Sorcerer X if you want even more spellcasting options on your Eldritch Blast Faux-Archer, plus you'd be able to do Eldritch Blast + Quickened Spell in the same turn.

- Battlemaster Fighter Archer with some spellcasting feats: Full Fighter attack progression, more numerous "trick arrows" than an Arcane Archer, and actual spellcasting gained through feats like Magic Initiate, Wood Elf Magic, Fey/Shadow Touched, and/or Ritual Caster Wizard. High Elf/Drow Elf/Forest Gnome/Tiefling/Firbolg/Triton/Genasi/Gith/Fairy/etc. can get you additional racial spellcasting too.

- Eldritch Knight Fighter Archer: A full Fighter with actual spellcasting (albeit as a 1/3 caster) without needing any feats. Evocation and Abjuration gets you both added AoE blasting and defense. Refluff your spells into shooting "magical arrows".

- Hand Crossbow Expert Bladesinger Wizard: Full Wizard spellcasting, Extra Attack with the ability to fire a cantrip "magic arrow" each turn, a third Bonus Action attack from Crossbow Expert (with 3x attacks/turn coming online 5 levels before Arcane Archer), and greater mobility/defense from Bladesong. Consider starting with a level of Fighter for CON save proficiency, hand crossbow proficiency (if you didn't get it from your race), and Archery fighting style. Maybe even eventually taking 2 levels for Action Surge.

- Battle Smith Artificer Archer: INT-SAD, Artificer half-casting, easy access to magic ranged weapons (including repeating crossbows if you want more of the steampunk archer angle), and a melee buddy to keep enemies at a distance plus make Bonus Action attacks for added damage contribution. Or if you're a Small race, you can ride your Steel Guardian as a mount for added mobility. Will probably want a level of Fighter or the Fighting Initiate feat for Archery fighting style to help offset Sharpshooter penalty.

- Swarmkeeper or Gloomstalker or Hunter Ranger 5/Arcane Trickster Rogue X: A bit MAD and takes a minute to come online, but gets Extra Attack, Archery fighting style, some lower level "trick arrow" spells like Ensnaring Strike and Hail of Thorns along with other spells that can be refluffed as magical arrows (Entangle/Web/Spike Growth/Fog Cloud/etc.), 1st/2nd level Ranger spellcasting alongside 1st/2nd/3rd level Wizard spellcasting and cantrips, Cunning Action Aim, and added ranged damage from Sneak Attack, Hunter's Mark/Favored Foe, and Gathered Swarm/Hunter’s Prey/Dread Ambusher. Also doable as Battlemaster 5/Arcane Trickster X if you're okay with less spellcasting in exchange for Action Surge and some non-magical trick arrows from Maneuvers.

Etc.

But I guess that just makes me a "powerwhiner"... :smallwink:

[dafrca]

But I guess that just makes me a "powerwhiner"... :smallwink:

I think a lot of us could say this as well. I know I can at times. :biggrin:

[f5anor]

Hi wonderful people! We are starting a new campaign at level3. I rolled some pretty sweet but sub-optimal stats 14/12/12/11/11/9. After a bit of thinking (and ignoring the internet powerwhiners) I decided to play an Arcane Archer.

Good for you! I always though that this is a very interesting character concept too.

Here are some few suggestions:

Consider "Minor Illusion" instead of "True Strike". "True Strike" is weak, it takes one action to cast and you only get one attack with advantage. With "Minor Illusion" you can do some cool tricks to help you hide behind illusions, *and* still get one shot out with advantage, plus of course you have tons of extra utility.
"Grasping Arrow" seems to me to be both more in line with your nature theme, and also more useful than Bursting/Shadow (too low damage, not very interesting, needs a save), at least you get an automatic effect (no save) and longer effect with multiple rounds of damage, or the target loses at least one round freeing itself up.

I guess the usual combo of Crossbow Expert/Sharpshooter is very attractive, but you may also go with Longbow and Sharpshooter for a more thematic look.

In terms of additional Feats:

Since you will be doing a lot of piercing damage I would suggest "Piercer", which also synergizes well with surprise attacks (extra dice to reroll).
Alert, Lucky and Elven Accuracy are of course very appropriate and very useful options,
Fey Touched is a great one, that can give you both "Misty Step" and a second spell option, (edit: removed incorrect spell option)
Ritual Caster can be very thematic for this character, who is indeed magical, but not fully so.

[Mastikator]

Unless you take VHuman or Custom Lineage don't take sharp shooter until level 8. The curving arrow does a lot to make up for the -5 sharp shooter hit penalty.

As for cantrip I'd go for some out of combat utility like Mage Hand or Minor Illusion (there are many good options, if you have a sorc/wiz in your team then ask what cantrips they're taking and choose something else, it's a lot more useful if you have something they don't have).

I'd actually suggest you take Elven Accuracy (dex) on level 4 or 6, and maybe Piercer on the other one. If you take shadow arrow and your target fails their save you get advantage on subsequent attacks due to their blindness.

[Kane0]

Build a Battlemaster.



Yeah, the sad truth is that there are at least a half dozen better ways to build an "arcane archer" without using the grossly subpar Arcane Archer subclass.


Alternative: ask your DM if you can play a Ranger with Arcane Archer as your subclass.
Dont forget to use the Tasha's Ranger class features!

[frankbelmont]

I wanna thank everyone for the excellent suggestions all of them have been very insightful and helpful and give me (noob player in the 5e system) a nice perspective. I think I'll take mold earth it fits the nature thematic and can provide me with cover and let's say an instant "map" on the ground to draw and plan with my comrades a combat scenario. I'll get ASI at lvl4&lvl8 with sharpshooter at lvl6. Bursting Arrow and Grasping Arrow fits the nature theme and the bounty hunter roleplay my PC has and then Shadow Arrow. Like I said I don't care about powergaming and better options exist for Arcane Archer. I like a challenge, I'm also curious to play a so called bad(ly designed) class and for better or worse every table is different. In my previous campaign I played a very weak rolled druid and yet the biggest satisfaction I got was when I summoned alligators for my team to help them swim cause they all sucked at it and had armors (3.5e). So yeah once again thank you.

[RogueJK]

Fey Touched is a great one, that can give you both "Misty Step" and a second spell option, e.g. "Shield"

You cannot pick up Shield with Fey Touched. Fey Touched grants you Misty Step plus one 1st level spell from the Divination or Enchantment school. Shield is Abjuration, so not an option.

[Mastikator]

You cannot pick up Shield with Fey Touched. Fey Touched grants you Misty Step plus one 1st level spell from the Divination or Enchantment school. Shield is Abjuration, so not an option.

There are a lot of good options though, like Bless if you're going sharp shooter arcane archer since you can bless yourself (plus 2 allies) then action surge into firing arrows. But that's 2 feats on a fighter that starts out with 16 dex and you really want to max out that dex.

[f5anor]

You cannot pick up Shield with Fey Touched. Fey Touched grants you Misty Step plus one 1st level spell from the Divination or Enchantment school. Shield is Abjuration, so not an option.

Thanks RogueKJ for the good catch.

[f5anor]

There are a lot of good options though, like Bless if you're going sharp shooter arcane archer since you can bless yourself (plus 2 allies) then action surge into firing arrows. But that's 2 feats on a fighter that starts out with 16 dex and you really want to max out that dex.

Yes, this was my point. I believe Fey Touched is a great Feat that in spite of being only a "Half Feat" gives you one 2nd level spell (and a good one at that) and one 1st level spell (albeit with limitations), which in my view is at least as strong as Magic Initiate.

Bless is of course a great choice, but you can also get Hex, another classic, as well as Hunter's Mark would be very relevant to this character.

Not to mention that its a great thematic addition to any Elven character.

[f5anor]

I wanna thank everyone for the excellent suggestions all of them have been very insightful and helpful and give me (noob player in the 5e system) a nice perspective. I think I'll take mold earth it fits the nature thematic and can provide me with cover and let's say an instant "map" on the ground to draw and plan with my comrades a combat scenario. I'll get ASI at lvl4&lvl8 with sharpshooter at lvl6. Bursting Arrow and Grasping Arrow fits the nature theme and the bounty hunter roleplay my PC has and then Shadow Arrow. Like I said I don't care about powergaming and better options exist for Arcane Archer. I like a challenge, I'm also curious to play a so called bad(ly designed) class and for better or worse every table is different.

I hope you have fun with this character, do let us know how your game develops!

I do not think that the Arcane Archer is even close to be one of the worst sub classes in the game. See Treantmonk's ranking, he actually had quite some good things to say about it.

Given its based on the Fighter with its ability to take many feats and other strong features, you can always make at least a serviceable character out of it. Also, one thing that is often misunderstood, is that many of the Arcane Shot options only need to be used once you know if you hit/miss and therefore can be used much more sparingly.

I do think though that the Arcane Shot uses you get are overall too few for the power level of the effects, especially in the lower levels.

[RogueJK]

I do think though that the Arcane Shot uses you get are overall too few for the power level of the effects, especially in the lower levels.

Yep, that's the main issue with Arcane Archers... Their signature ability that the entire class is based around is only usable 2x/short rest. The rest of the time you're basically just a standard Archer Fighter.

An easy homebrew fix for this would be to tie Arcane Shot to Proficiency Bonus times per short rest. That would at least scale with character level, starting out at 2x/rest but increasing from there. That's a good start.


Another issue is that the bonus damage doesn't scale, until it eventually gets a small bump all the way at Level 18. +1d6/2d6 bonus damage is nice at Level 3, but not as impressive at Level 9 or 12 or 17. And even once it doubles at Level 18, +4d6 bonus damage is a pittance at 18/19/20. Other characters get to dump piles of damage dice, rewrite the fabric of the universe, and win combat with the wave of a hand... While you get +14 to a damage roll once per combat, plus a minor (at high levels) rider effect.


A third issue is that the Arcane Archer doesn't feel very... Arcane/Magical. You get a flavor cantrip, and some minor magical effects for a handful of arrows per day. Whoopee. A fix for this could involve making it a 1/3 caster ala the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, with perhaps some different spell school restrictions (like Conjuration and Transmutation).

As it stands, as mentioned in my earlier post, there are better ways to make a "magical archer" that can be just as good (or better) at standard archer stuff as the Arcane Archer while also having varying levels of additional magical flavor and abilities (or at least "trick shots") beyond that which the Arcane Archer gets.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Yep, that's the main issue with Arcane Archers... Their signature ability that the entire class is based around is only usable 2x/short rest. The rest of the time you're basically just a standard Archer Fighter.

An easy homebrew fix for this would be to tie Arcane Shot to Proficiency Bonus times per short rest. That would at least scale with character level, starting out at 2x/rest but increasing from there. That's a good start.


Another issue is that the bonus damage doesn't scale, until it eventually gets a small bump all the way at Level 18. +1d6/2d6 bonus damage is nice at Level 3, but not as impressive at Level 9 or 12 or 17. And even once it doubles at Level 18, +4d6 bonus damage is a pittance at 18/19/20. Other characters get to dump piles of damage dice, rewrite the fabric of the universe, and win combat with the wave of a hand... While you get +14 to a damage roll once per combat, plus a minor (at high levels) rider effect.


A third issue is that the Arcane Archer doesn't feel very... Arcane/Magical. You get a flavor cantrip, and some minor magical effects for a handful of arrows per day. Whoopee. A fix for this could involve making it a 1/3 caster ala the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, with perhaps some different spell school restrictions (like Conjuration and Transmutation).

As it stands, as mentioned in my earlier post, there are better ways to make a "magical archer" that can be just as good (or better) at standard archer stuff as the Arcane Archer while also having varying levels of additional magical flavor and abilities (or at least "trick shots") beyond that which the Arcane Archer gets.

I'm in agreement, and you don't have to be a powergamer or min/maxer to pick one of the other options and re-fluff. 2 shots per short rest is just not fun; by comparison the 4 (5 at 7th) level provided by the BM give you enough uses and variations every battle to feel like this character should feel.