Spirit Binding from Complete Arcane

[redking]

Complete Arcane errata has a definition of spirit creatures.


For the purposes of the commune with greater spirit, commune with lesser spirit, greater spirit binding, lesser spirit binding, spirit binding, spirit needle, and spirit self spells, a “spirit” or “spirit creature” includes any of the following creatures: all incorporeal undead, all fey, all elementals, creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane), all creatures of the spirit subtype (see Oriental Adventures), spirit folk and telthors (see Unapproachable East), and spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose (see Complete Divine).

Has anyone done anything with spirit binding? Binding creatures in astral form seems interesting. How would that even work? Also, would Malconvoker's abilities have synergy?


This spell functions as lesser planar binding (see page 262 of the Player's Handbook), except that it allows you to call and trap a single spirit creature of up to 8 Hit Dice.

The door would be open to a lenient DM, for certain.

[Doctor Despair]

Could you technically use those spells to summon a caster using Astral Projection?

[redking]

Could you technically use those spells to summon a caster using Astral Projection?

I don't know of any other creatures in "astral form", so I'd say yes. Does anyone know anything about this?

[Malphegor]

Spirits also include pretty much all fey and elementals too. So there’s a LOT of spell-like abilities you get access to. Of note it’s worth using this kind of ability to get some elemental grues to crack em open for their spell item, a redcap for its bits, and a ton of soggy water fae who exist to drown people for their druid spells

[redking]

I guess because this is a Wu Jen spell no one knows. binding fey seems pretty cool. Still confused about binding creatures in astral form.

[Tzardok]

Spirit binding appeared for the first time in 3.0 Oriental Adventures. 3.0 was, from what I remember, weird about astral shape. Sourcebooks were contradictory, but apparently some books assumed that any extraplanar being that entered the Astral was in astral shape, not just those that use Astral Projection. (I also vaguely remember some book acting like astral travellers were "present" on the Material, like etheral travellers are.)

So when Complete Divine and Complete Arcane did a bit of spirit stuff, they copied the text from Oriental Adventures, including this whole astral thing. At least, that's what i believe is the reason for this.

[redking]

So when Complete Divine and Complete Arcane did a bit of spirit stuff, they copied the text from Oriental Adventures, including this whole astral thing. At least, that's what i believe is the reason for this.

That makes sense.

I wader what the best spirit binds would be.

[Doctor Despair]

That makes sense.

I wader what the best spirit binds would be.

A high-level caster who was unlucky enough to be projecting when you cast it, of course :smalltongue:

[Wildstag]

For the purposes of the commune with greater spirit, commune with lesser spirit, greater spirit binding, lesser spirit binding, spirit binding, spirit needle, and spirit self spells, a “spirit” or “spirit creature” includes any of the following creatures: all incorporeal undead, all fey, all elementals, creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane), all creatures of the spirit subtype (see Oriental Adventures), spirit folk and telthors (see Unapproachable East), and spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose (see Complete Divine).

Interestingly, that would mean eventually a 15th level Wu Jen could bind a Rimefire Witch 10, a Spirit Shaman 20, a Swanmay 5, a Wildrunner 9, and a Winterhaunt 10.

I guess that could be used for some fun.

[redking]

Greater Spirit Binding can allows calling creatures up to 18 HD. Therefore, if you DM will allow licensed Dark Sun 3.5e material (https://athas.org/products/loa/documents/36), you can call a Pyreen. A Pyreen has 16 HD and casts as a druid and manifests as a psion of its racial HD.

[Crake]

Spirit binding appeared for the first time in 3.0 Oriental Adventures. 3.0 was, from what I remember, weird about astral shape. Sourcebooks were contradictory, but apparently some books assumed that any extraplanar being that entered the Astral was in astral shape, not just those that use Astral Projection. (I also vaguely remember some book acting like astral travellers were "present" on the Material, like etheral travellers are.)

So when Complete Divine and Complete Arcane did a bit of spirit stuff, they copied the text from Oriental Adventures, including this whole astral thing. At least, that's what i believe is the reason for this.

The errata definition of a spirit creature does specifically preclude travellers physically present on the astral plane, so plane shifting to the astral plane: not a spirit creature, astral projecting to the astral plane: a spirit creature.


Could you technically use those spells to summon a caster using Astral Projection?

You could bind their astral form specifically, but they could just kill themselves and recast astral projection.

[Tzardok]

The errata definition of a spirit creature does specifically preclude travellers physically present on the astral plane, so plane shifting to the astral plane: not a spirit creature, astral projecting to the astral plane: a spirit creature.


That's what I meant: 3.0 had mostly everybody as astral projections on the Astral, even if they entered through a portal, for example. So astral creatures were more common, which makes it "sensible" to include that in the spirit definition as astral people are a lot more common.

[Kaleph]

In terms of sheer power I'm quite sure that one of the most powerful targets for the spell is the Siabrie (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20020817a), a creature that can in the first place shapechange at will, has a SoL gaze attack (although you may want to keep it deactivated, since it may affect also you and your party), and has a lot of SLA's with a druidic feel.