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Velaryon
2021-10-24, 04:33 PM
How do D&D societies house their magic-wielding prisoners? Obviously antimagic cells are one possibility, but since not just anyone can make an antimagic field, this is probably an expensive system. I would think that a) not all prisons have such cells, and b) not all casters are powerful enough to be worth locking into such a cell. Likewise, a lot of spellcasting can be prevented by depriving prisoners of their spellbooks, holy symbols, etc. but not all.

So are there lesser precautions that a prison might take to house, say, a low-level caster who isn't powerful enough to fly or teleport out, isn't conjuring massive balls of fire to obliterate walls, but is still potentially dangerous to other inmates or prison guards? What does an "average" prison look like in a D&D world?

Thrudd
2021-10-24, 04:51 PM
I would think spellcasters might be bound and gagged, if they are really worried about it. Keeping them under armed guard might be enough- if they start casting, someone can smack them or stab them to shut them up. Some places might have a brutal policy like summary execution or maiming, if spell casters there have been really hard to control. Don't bother trying to jail a magical trouble maker, just kill them or chop their hands and/or tongue off, if you don't have magics powerful enough to hold them (like permanent anti-magic fields, silence spells,etc.).

MoiMagnus
2021-10-24, 05:15 PM
Why would you keep them prisoners instead of executing them?

(1) Because this is a small infraction, and you want a short prison sentence to teach them a lesson
=> Just take away their equipment, and make it clear that if they're caught trying to escape or causing any problems, things will get much worse for them. Tying their hands and gagging them is also a possibility for very short sentences.

(2) Because you don't want them around ever, but killing them would be unfair
=> Exile them, with significant penalty (death?) if they came back. They're not your problem any more, and you're forcing them to start back from zero which is already a significant punishment. You might want to also cut their tongue or one hand, if you really want to punish them.

(3) Because they're too important to be killed (political reasons, social standing, etc)
=> They will probably be put in a golden prison, so just hope they're honourable enough to not force their way out, or that you will caught them doing something dishonourable enough to execute them.

(4) Because this place is ruled by a "modern" society
=> This modern society probably have some custom magic items or custom spells to handle those situations. Or some specially trained guards. Etc

Also note that Zone of Truth is very practical to test the future prisoners on whether or not they intend to escape, what are their potential means of escape, etc.

icefractal
2021-10-24, 05:26 PM
It won't work for all spellcasters, but for most of them - mittens. Specifically, locked mittens that have individual finger sleeves inside (and therefore hold the fingers in place). Prevents somatic components (and lockpicking), and while irritating for the prisoners, isn't as bad as being chained up.

Leon
2021-10-24, 06:37 PM
It won't work for all spellcasters, but for most of them - mittens. Specifically, locked mittens that have individual finger sleeves inside (and therefore hold the fingers in place). Prevents somatic components (and lockpicking), and while irritating for the prisoners, isn't as bad as being chained up.

The Judge Proclaims: Its Mittens for you!

MarkVIIIMarc
2021-10-24, 07:39 PM
Some would be more difficult than others but with no spell casting focus you need all them pesky components.

I also imagine major cities have silence chambers in their prisons.

Some casters can get around these limitations with some spells though.

Melayl
2021-10-24, 08:32 PM
Not allowing them to get 8 hours of rest a day will keep them from regaining spells.

I'm sure there are methods of draining spells/magic from casters, too.

Keeping them too drugged-up to cast would work. I seem to remember the existence of a poison or two that blocks Casting, or at least makes it harder.

Corvus
2021-10-24, 10:04 PM
Back in 2e (when casters had limitations) it was fairly easy. Take away the holy symbol for clerics and spell casting components for mages. Most spells had a material component. And spell books. No spell book meant no chance to memorise.

Plus you needed to be rested and spend a long time memorising/praying for spells so just interrupt their sleep and they aren't rested enough to get spells.

Telok
2021-10-24, 11:07 PM
AD&D & prior: Remove casting gear & books. If you're paranoid ball gags or permament silence or exposure to obivilax (memory moss) or the Feeblemind spell.

3e: Ball gags or permanent silence & cuff their hands behind their backs. Force them to go swimming/sprinting every 3 hours. Hit them with Feeblemind 40 times.

4e & later: Death. Alternately, everything for 3e plus full immobilization and Feeblemind them daily.

Velaryon
2021-10-24, 11:49 PM
Thanks for the responses so far. I think this would benefit from a bit more context:

I'm planning a "prison break" game, inspired a bit by the video game A Way Out but with a full party rather than 2 people. The PCs will all be starting off the game as prisoners, so "just kill the spellcasters" is not an option that I can run with. Likewise I'm not super enthused by making the casters be bound & gagged at all times, since that would prevent them from doing things like being able to interact with NPCs in the prison yard. I guess I could just have some casters among the guards and make it so they have to be careful of when and what they cast to avoid getting caught, but I want to try to avoid being too heavy-handed with it as well.

The prison is going to be an Alcratraz/Chateau d'If-style island prison where the characters have been dumped for various reasons: one is a murderer, one has a personal nemesis who forged papers to get them sent away, and a couple were pretty much just in the wrong place at the wrong time and got swept up with the others. If this goes well, they'll need to come up with a clever escape plan to get out of the prison, and then find a way off the island. They're starting at level 1 so it shouldn't be too hard to contain them, but I want to minimize railroading while designing a setup that also makes sense.

icefractal
2021-10-25, 12:05 AM
Something a bit expensive, but a lot less so than permanent antimagic, and that might suit your needs well - magic alarm bracelet / ankle shackle / whatever.

This is just a minor magic item using Detect Magic (limited) plus Ghost Sound - if you remove the bracelet or use any other magic it blasts a loud alert noise until someone with the proper key shuts it off (or it's broken, but make it out of mithral and that's pretty tough to do). The noise can be custom to the bracelet too, so it identifies who did it immediately.

Seems like this would be an interesting risk dynamic for the PCs - when the time comes to make their move, they can use magic, but they'll have to be sure that this is the time because it won't be subtle. The sound can be stifled (as loud as four people by default, up to twenty if it's higher quality), but only when out of sight because having a bunch of blankets wrapped around your arm/leg is kind of obvious. Or you can bluff that it went off by mistake, which may not be implausible for heavily used magic items that get re-used by dozens of prisoners - maybe it even should have a small chance to actually go off by mistake.


As for the most likely place to use this - a fairly humane prison where keeping prisoners mittened and/or gagged all the time is considered unacceptable. This could be either that it's low-security, that it's used to house politically important prisoners, or just that the country it's in has high ethical standards.

Alternately though, a less ethical prison that doesn't want to put in much work may still use this, since then the prisoners can tend to themselves and less staff is required.

Bohandas
2021-10-25, 12:37 AM
Sleep deprivation, for spellcaster spellcasters that have to replenish spells per day. Not necessarily severe sleep deprivation, but enough to ensure they don't get a solid eight hours at a stretch.

Ckerics don't need rest, so they might need to be gagged or handcuffed, or else interrupted at least once per hour to prevent them from completing the ritual to refill their spell slots

For folks and creatures with at-will powers something more severe might be required; some kind of expensive device that radiates an anti-magic field (or at least a globe of invulnerability effect) might indeed be needed. Some kind of equivalent to the reality anchors from SCP.

The cost of this could be mitigated by building the prison in a natural dead magic area.


EDIT:
Another potential but unreliable solution for stopping clerics would be to hang the symbol of a more powerful deity who is enemy to the cleric's deity in their cell. The rival deity then could block the cleric's deity from hearing the cleric's prayers (although they probably won't however as they can only block divine sensing over a limited number of areas at once

Telok
2021-10-25, 01:29 AM
Well in that case your answer is drugs. Simply DM fiat that there's a fairly unknown combination of fairly common herbs that, prepared correctly and mixed with pure water, inhibits spellcasting. The guards just dump a bunch down the well in the courtyard every week. Doesn't work if you drink wine or beer, doesn't work if you boil it as tea, doesn't work if you add anything extra or the water has minerals in it. Takes about three or four days to wear off once you stop drinking the water.

Your other options in modern D&D are either mutilation & torture, covering the whole place in DM fiat antimagic, or going full on high end magic-as-technology modern style incarceration.

Mastikator
2021-10-25, 01:50 AM
Many spells require sight, voice and hands. Remove those and you should be good. Also arcane focus obviously

Kardwill
2021-10-25, 03:43 AM
Not allowing them to get 8 hours of rest a day will keep them from regaining spells.

I'm sure there are methods of draining spells/magic from casters, too.


Won't denying them long rest also kill them in 6-10 days in 5e? Which is a way to deal with spellcasters, I guess ^^

Of course, the most efficient way to deal with them is not to jail them at all (or at least not long-term. binding and gagging them for a night so that they can be brought to the judge/baron/archmage would be a decent short term solution), but instead kill them, banish them, fine them or force them into state/guild service.

Since the question is about a "prison break" scenario, then we need to find some "custom" solution

- Some sort of antimagic manacle/collar might work and will be a nice challenge to get rid of, but the existence of these will affect the gameworld (and the player's arsenal once they get out of the prison)
- a high magical security zone under some sort of silence spell + the removal of any focus/component. Some spells work without those, but the players will have to be creative to make do with what they have left (or be creative and try to create/harvest/smuggle those components they usually completely ignore during normal gameplay ^^)

Bohandas
2021-10-25, 08:09 AM
I still think finding a natural dead magic zone to build the prison over is a good idea with a lot of story potential.

Thought: What if the top level had a lumpy uneven ceiling that followed the upper boundry of the zone, that would be cool and memorable, wouldn't it?

Anonymouswizard
2021-10-25, 09:00 AM
As has been said already, the simplest methods are by taking away casting equipment, binding and gagging, and limiting their test periods to less than eight hours a day. These measures could even be extended to everybody, given the existence of pact magic in 5e binding/gagging night just be routine.

Because there are very few spells which lack both verbal and somatic commitments.

As a side note, other systems can have interesting implications for imprisoning spellcasters. Spellcasting in GURPS causes Fatigue, meaning that a viable solution for imprisoning spellcasters is hard physical labour. I sure that you could find such a solution in Shadowrun or other such systems.

Also for low level casters, ensure that you've taken precautions like guard dogs and spreading flour near the exits. They aren't foolproof, but you can mitigate the usefulness of spells like Invisibility.

King of Nowhere
2021-10-25, 12:34 PM
for a low security prison, just having a cell with open bars and large groups of guards walk outside. the prisoner can't do anything without being seen, and charming one guard isn't doing any good. picking locks, digging through walls and other similar ways are too slow and won't escape detection.

Duff
2021-10-26, 04:29 PM
Also, low-medium level casters aren't that much of an issue generally. Say you can open locks and turn invisible. That get's you out of your cell and up the corridor to the guardroom with guards and dogs. When you open the door to it, the bell rings, the guard and the dog look up and when they don't see you, they know to take steps against invisible prisoner on the loose.

Also, if they can catch you, they probably have the resources to hold you

Jay R
2021-10-26, 04:58 PM
Exercise period every six hours. They will get enough rest to stay healthy, but will never get 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep.

Mordar
2021-10-26, 05:40 PM
I am reminded of the classic A4 module from AD&D and its description of the special treatment afforded to clerics and druids.

Those were the good old days.

In short, stuff everyone already described, with stripping all material items from everyone and sleep deprivation for the casters being top of the list. That'd work for everything pre-4th Edition, right?

- M

Thrudd
2021-10-26, 05:49 PM
I am reminded of the classic A4 module from AD&D and its description of the special treatment afforded to clerics and druids.

Those were the good old days.

In short, stuff everyone already described, with stripping all material items from everyone and sleep deprivation for the casters being top of the list. That'd work for everything pre-4th Edition, right?

- M
Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.

Mordar
2021-10-26, 06:30 PM
Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.

Well, as I recall that wasn't really the plan...after all, hard to make money off corpses...it just happened (wasn't it sort of an escape? Now I must look!).

Yup, that's it...there was an earthquake, and then the high priest orders them sacrificed to the earth god, and they get gassed and wake up in the cave.

- M

Anonymouswizard
2021-10-28, 06:02 AM
Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.

How uncivilised.

They should have given them itchy sackcloth tunics first. Hard to appreciate your impending doom when you're trying to give everybody else done privacy.

PhoenixPhyre
2021-10-28, 10:58 AM
If you're in a rich, really high magic world, kill them on capture. Then raise them for trial. Then kill them again if they're condemned. If they get off on appeal, you can always raise them a second time.

Excession
2021-10-29, 05:59 PM
In 5e, beat them unconscious and weld them into a suit of plate armour. Doesn't work on paladins.

Palanan
2021-10-29, 08:00 PM
I feel like we should acknowledge the best musical D&D jailbreak ever. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZI7s0cVdNI)

:smalltongue:

GeoffWatson
2021-10-30, 01:20 AM
Honour system: "We know you can easily escape, but if you stick around until the trial we'll treat you well. If you escape, next time we catch you we'll just kill you."

Saint-Just
2021-10-30, 02:08 AM
As a side note, other systems can have interesting implications for imprisoning spellcasters. Spellcasting in GURPS causes Fatigue, meaning that a viable solution for imprisoning spellcasters is hard physical labour.

By the rules it isn't. First Fatigue from labor recovers at point/10 minutes or faster, so keeping the caster at exactly 0 FP is impossibly hard, and with 3 points you can try to do something in some situations (Create Door, 10-yard Teleport, Lockmaster on one lock, Levitation for 1 minute, and many more options become available if you manage to recover say 6 points). Then usually there is an option to get some spells at 0 cost (organizing an escape with only those may be too hard, but unlimited Message usually also more than jailers are willing to allow their prisoners), and finally there is an option to get into negative FP or burn HP to power the spell (but jailers cannot normally keep people at negative FP, it will kill them in days).

For mages all you need is Drain Mana or Suspend Magery, but other magic-users are harder. Divine-powered guys are especially hard to block within the "generic fantasy" options.

Anonymouswizard
2021-10-30, 06:36 AM
By the rules it isn't. First Fatigue from labor recovers at point/10 minutes or faster, so keeping the caster at exactly 0 FP is impossibly hard, and with 3 points you can try to do something in some situations (Create Door, 10-yard Teleport, Lockmaster on one lock, Levitation for 1 minute, and many more options become available if you manage to recover say 6 points). Then usually there is an option to get some spells at 0 cost (organizing an escape with only those may be too hard, but unlimited Message usually also more than jailers are willing to allow their prisoners), and finally there is an option to get into negative FP or burn HP to power the spell (but jailers cannot normally keep people at negative FP, it will kill them in days).

For mages all you need is Drain Mana or Suspend Magery, but other magic-users are harder. Divine-powered guys are especially hard to block within the "generic fantasy" options.

I didn't check the book because I'm 90% verse m certain that there's a work around for anything in the GURPS library. But if we assume that most NPCs don't optimise than the average spellcaster probably can't cast spells for free and isn't strong enough to overpower the guards first thing in the morning, needing that for your average message a close eye and hard work will deal with them.

PC mages are very rarely average, so if you wanted to hold them you'll need to get more specialised. And yes, it is hard to hold somebody with divine backing, which makes a lot of sense. The chosen of the god of thieves can probably escape almost any prison.

KineticDiplomat
2021-10-30, 08:01 AM
Well, to put this in context, a D&D caster is someone who walks around with a rocket launcher in his pocket, can mind rape you with a look, create mass hysteria all on their own, and can conjure hundreds of pounds of carnivorous beast in town square.

The standard of justice and expectations are going to be somewhat different. Simple (or not so simple) confinement probably isn't going to work morally or pragmatically. There is going to be a long term solution - it could be recruitment, it could be mutilation, it could be mental reprogramming, it could be a massive fine, it could be burning out the gift. Whatever.

The point is that for your game, the mage is on the clock. Whatever elaborate containment means they have are going to be imperfect, but they don't have to work long - only long enough for whoever does the long thing to show up. Which means your player is on the clock.

Anonymouswizard
2021-10-30, 09:09 AM
Well, to put this in context, a D&D caster is someone who walks around with a rocket launcher in his pocket, can mind rape you with a look, create mass hysteria all on their own, and can conjure hundreds of pounds of carnivorous beast in town square.

Can I just quickly state the assumption you're making here?

A high(ish) level D&D caster. How many get to the point that they fit that description is questionable and very much depends on the setting. Eberron (with it's assumption that most heroes are lower level) might have an easier time locking up mages than Forgotten Realms.


The standard of justice and expectations are going to be somewhat different. Simple (or not so simple) confinement probably isn't going to work morally or pragmatically. There is going to be a long term solution - it could be recruitment, it could be mutilation, it could be mental reprogramming, it could be a massive fine, it could be burning out the gift. Whatever.

The point is that for your game, the mage is on the clock. Whatever elaborate containment means they have are going to be imperfect, but they don't have to work long - only long enough for whoever does the long thing to show up. Which means your player is on the clock.

Or you just end up with Wizards essentially being above the law, which is an interesting scenario. The main thing that keeps a rising wizard in check is other wizards, and secondarily the thought that if the masses rose up they could theoretically have enough people to make anybody run out of magic. Which means your average caster would likely get killed before they got imprisoned.

KineticDiplomat
2021-10-30, 05:35 PM
Well, a high level caster can do all of those, but even a comparatively low level caster might be able to do one. Socially speaking, any caster has the ability to be a menace to good order and safety. And it's not like your average Joe is able to differentiate at a glance between magickers overall capacity for harm; they just know that somehow this privileged caste might unleash any amount of misery and outrage using just their hands and words.

Mkre practically to containment, this isVauban variant problem - building cells to handle all possibilities vs the magicker only needing one tick to work. Until you get to flat anti-magic fields, you've got an issue where defense is overwhelmed by the sheer possibilities.

So either way, containment for routine law seems unlikely.

Saint-Just
2021-10-31, 09:24 AM
I didn't check the book because I'm 90% verse m certain that there's a work around for anything in the GURPS library. But if we assume that most NPCs don't optimise than the average spellcaster probably can't cast spells for free and isn't strong enough to overpower the guards first thing in the morning


It's still not good to rely on physical labor, because it's very easy to get either "negative FP, so loses HP" or "at full FP at least some times of day" because you either miscalculate or unable to exactly execute your plans. If I needed to keep someone at very low FP I'd rather rely on juuust right amount of starvation/dehydration/sleep deprivation/hypothermia - FP for that accrue slower but are impossible to get rid of unless you acquire things to counteract them (food/water/sleep/warmth).

I think spellcasters would tend to fall into one of two categories: either unable to escape at full FP if carefully watched, chained etc; or impossible to contain with forced physical labor only, instead of long-term fatigue. Middle ground would be rare.

Anonymouswizard
2021-10-31, 10:16 AM
Well, a high level caster can do all of those, but even a comparatively low level caster might be able to do one. Socially speaking, any caster has the ability to be a menace to good order and safety. And it's not like your average Joe is able to differentiate at a glance between magickers overall capacity for harm; they just know that somehow this privileged caste might unleash any amount of misery and outrage using just their hands and words.

Mkre practically to containment, this isVauban variant problem - building cells to handle all possibilities vs the magicker only needing one tick to work. Until you get to flat anti-magic fields, you've got an issue where defense is overwhelmed by the sheer possibilities.

So either way, containment for routine law seems unlikely.

A low level caster can do a little bit of what you describe a couple of times per day. With a reasonable number of mundane guards, and at standard assumed spellcaster rarity, they'll be out of spells before the guard's have finished rugby tackling.

Plus restraints and gags solve a large number of spells, I'm fairly certain there's none which have no somatic or verbal components by default. Which means in 5e you only really have to worry about Sorcerers, and even then only those with Subtle Spell or the right subclass. 3.X makes it harder because of the Still Spell and Silent Spell feats, but your average caster still can't access enough spells to escape without help. Even unlimited Cantrips don't help that much.

Plus yes, Joe Bloggs has no idea if this spellcaster can cast Firey Doom or not. But take away access to their hands and voice and it still gets a lot harder, of somebody still escapes then they get the assassin's sent after them.

Of course if you're in a high enough magic setting that spellcasters regularly get to that level of power you instead follow the following procedure: slit their throat, scry to find the location of their soul, Plane Shift and Steam their Petitioner form, hold it until their sentence is over, bring them back to life. Okay, that's still possibly a little extreme compared to just chucking then into an antimagic field, but I was going for style.


It's still not good to rely on physical labor, because it's very easy to get either "negative FP, so loses HP" or "at full FP at least some times of day because you either miscalculate or unable to exactly execute your plans. If I needed to keep someone at very low FP I'd rather rely on juuust right amount of starvation/dehydration/sleep deprivation/hypothermy - FP for that accrue slower but are impossible to get rid of unless you acquire things to counteract them (food/water/sleep/warmth).

I think spellcasters would tend to fall into one of two categories: either unable to escape at full FP if carefully watched, chained etc; or impossible to contain with forced physical labor only, instead of long-term fatigue. Middle ground would be rare.

Fair's fair, it's been years since I last played.

False God
2021-10-31, 12:00 PM
IMO: when I design a world if there are enough casters that imprisoning them is a regular event, there are enough casters so that some can work for the government and develop containment methods.

For the most part I run lower-magic worlds where a mob of peasants is very real threat to the average magic user (who ya know, isn't already inclined to murder mobs of peasants), most casters keep their heads low and their hands clean because you will typically run out of magic before whoever really wants to kill you runs out of bodies to throw in your direction.

So a prison in such a world will typically have 1-3 special rooms for a mage. How powerful a mage they can hold depends on the locale, but typically only larger cities with larger prisons have them. Anti-magic fields, gags, hand-bindings, spell-absorption effects, the works. Some societies may be inclined to include various forms of torture to prevent spellcasting. Think "The Bastille" with a couple of anti-magic rooms in the basement is the most common setup for developed nations.

---
When I run the occasional high-magic world, the prevalence of casters in the general population means there is also a prevalence of casters among law enforcement and government. Magical containment methods are more common, prisons with anti-magic cells are more common, and people to deal with violent magic users are also more common.

Storm_Of_Snow
2021-11-20, 01:05 PM
For divine casters, what about invoking the domain agreement and having a deity of justice whose sphere of influence includes the prisons and courts - for instance, any deity granting spells to any of their followers who're imprisoned is in breach of the agreement, but the justice deity is in breach if they don't protect those followers from any rival deities followers, grant healing without prejudice and ensure the trials are held honestly.

Alternatively, you could have magical collars with anti-magic fields on them.

Grim Portent
2021-11-20, 06:04 PM
Thinking about it in terms of wanting them captive with little to no hope of escape while also not wanting to mutilate them since in some settings that can't be fixed if you ever decide you need them.

Place the spellcaster's head and hands into a pillory or shrew's fiddle and gloves with rigid fingers, a scold's bridle* upon their head so they cannot speak properly, shackles on their legs so they cannot perform any ritual motions with their legs. A blindfold so they cannot see, and as such can't draw line of sight to things.

The bridle comes off for meals, and then is put back in place. They are not unschackled or removed from the pillory/fiddle for this, their hands are never free under any circumstances. They defecate into a bucket, they get washed by having a bucket of water thrown over them every few days, they are fed by a guard, they never leave their cells, they do not share cells with any other prisoners, even other mages bound the same way.

Barring a spellcaster who can cast magic without speaking, seeing or making any kind of gesture this should be able to prevent anything that poses a real threat of escape. In the event a magic user does manage to teleport away, they'll be unable to run, use their hands or ask for help, while obviously being a witch on the run from the authorities. If a spellcaster is able to escape under these conditions, you were probably better off not locking them up in the first place.

If this sounds like torture, then yes it would be, the spellcaster is likely to come out of their time in captivity traumatised, broken and possibly unable to ever fully recover from the experience.




*The scold's bridle/witch's bridle/branks was a barred cage that went around the head with a metal bar in the mouth that stopped the tongue from moving. Sometimes with a spike to prevent the mouth from closing properly for extra pain and trauma. Put on properly it completely prevented speech and couldn't be removed by the wearer.

King of Nowhere
2021-11-21, 09:56 AM
I use a twofold approach.
if a powerful nation really commits to taking a spellcaster, they can throw enough resources at the problem to succeed. But it would be very expensive for the nation, and bad for the caster, so it's the outcome nobody wants.
so, most nations don't want to make enemies of wizards, and most wizards don't want to make enemies of nations.

therefore, if the offending wizard didn't do anything too bad, they are punished with fines or similar. pay a compensation to the people you hurt, and we'll still be friends. consider than in a world with resurrection spells, even murder can be fixed this way. if we really have to put you in prison, the prison is nice, and it's one you actually could escape from if you really tried. but it's in your interest not to.
this works for both parties: the wizard can avoid having high level assassins hired on him, he can avoid being stuck in antimagic or be put in a blindfold and gag 24/7, which is a really uncomfortable thing. he has to pay some money, maybe spend some time locked at home; none of that is too onerous. most wizards will accept that.
as for the nation, they can force wizards to obey the law, without having to bankrupt themselves in an all-out war.
it's similar to what most western justice systems do today; be lenient to the small criminals, to encourage them to stay small instead of becoming big criminals.

If the wizard does not comply, then it's all-out war. the nation will put the strongest characters they have on your tracks, they will stick you in antimagic, subject you to sleep deprivation, keep you drugged. in the worst cases, they will promise a reward of millions for your disembodied, trapped soul.
evil nations may have elaborate death penalties under torture, and they know you have accomplices ready to resurrect you, but it's ok, if you show up again they will kill you again, and if you get resurrected and leave them alone and start messing up with their rivals, they're happy with that outcome. evil nations may hire you in exchange for protection from the law. that's how evil nations get their high level workforce; we protect you from the law of other nations, we hide you and give you safe strongholds to stay and bar access to those that would hunt you, and in exchange you work for us.

But the general stance is that the nation will be nice to you and will try to give you an easy way out. if you don't take the easy way out, they will unleash all their resources to hunt you and they will make an example out of you, so that everyone else will see that it's better to take the easy way out.
If you aren't strong enough to make this mechanism work, your nation will fall into chaos as various high level people will set themselves up as above the law and become de facto rulers

gijoemike
2021-11-23, 01:34 PM
As a standard prisoners get personal possessions taken away. So spell books, religious focus, staffs, wands, instruments aren't in the picture. Then just put them in a locked helmet that doesn't have eye holes. This way they cannot see. They can move about their cell, go to the lavatory, answer questions, and eat. All of these answers about lock their fingers, bind them in a pillory, put on insane headgear means the guards are having to spoon feed them and wipe their backside ( at least pull down pants ). And the helmet is temporary.


Without material components, and line of sight 90% of all spells straight up don't work. And several classes cannot recover spells if they cannot see. Now there are several edge cases where a verbal/somatic only spell could break the helmet or allow the caster to teleport/shift away. But if they cannot see where they are and have been led around it could put them very high up or in solid rock.

KorvinStarmast
2021-11-23, 03:55 PM
Why would you keep them prisoners instead of executing them? Indeed. But first see if they weigh as much as a duck

Anonymouswizard
2021-11-23, 05:37 PM
As a standard prisoners get personal possessions taken away. So spell books, religious focus, staffs, wands, instruments aren't in the picture. Then just put them in a locked helmet that doesn't have eye holes. This way they cannot see. They can move about their cell, go to the lavatory, answer questions, and eat. All of these answers about lock their fingers, bind them in a pillory, put on insane headgear means the guards are having to spoon feed them and wipe their backside ( at least pull down pants ). And the helmet is temporary.


Without material components, and line of sight 90% of all spells straight up don't work. And several classes cannot recover spells if they cannot see. Now there are several edge cases where a verbal/somatic only spell could break the helmet or allow the caster to teleport/shift away. But if they cannot see where they are and have been led around it could put them very high up or in solid rock.

There's ways around lack of LoS, the easiest being spells which affect the caster or an area around them. Which keeps Teleport online if they're high enough level to cast it.

Wintermoot
2021-11-24, 09:24 AM
your problem ISN'T how to keep the spellcasters in prison.

your problem is how to make your escape game exciting and fun.

With that in mind you have to look at what makes for an interesting problem for the spellcaster(s) and other players to overcome to escape.

With Wizards and priests, as others have pointed out, all you have to do is take their spell components, holy symbols, mistletoe and spell books away. The cleric is going to have to find a way to make a new holy symbol (whittle it out of soap perhaps), but that's the least of your worries as the cleric magic is the least difficult to work around to keep them in prison until you get to third level and stone shape.

With the wizards and the druid, you're going to want to put the spellbooks and components and mistletoe somewhere they have to break further INTO the prison to get before they break out. Perhaps a magically locked chest in the warden's closet or a room behind the guards armory.

So really is the sorcerers and other spontaneous, no component, casters you need to plan around.

Drugs: good idea. The sorcerer's food allotment is drugged to inhibit spell caster. The players needs to take a few days of trading his food for someone else's food to get it out of his sytem and get his spells back. OR, if all food is drugged (expensive!) then the sorcerer needs to take some starvation penalties to get clean.

memory moss/feedblemind: The sorcerer lives in a fog, a haze, and gets to role play that until the other characters get him off it in some fashion. Perhaps the alchemist or druid starts making rolls to find components for a brew hidden in the crags of the dungeon and corners of the courtyard.

separate ward for the spellcasters with windowless cells. Food drops through a small hole randomly. Really this depends on looking at the spell list and figuring out what kind of cell you need to build to keep them in there until they get help.

My goto would be to introduce a really obnoxious guard, dressed in a black uniform who puts a collar around the sorcerers neck, locks it on and then gets the ability to cast the sorcerer's spells while zapping the sorcerer if he tries to cast them. Nothing motivates hatred as much as having your own powers used against you. In order to get free, the players needs to isolate and get the control from that guy to unlock the collar and free the sorcerer.

King of Nowhere
2021-11-24, 11:14 AM
My goto would be to introduce a really obnoxious guard, dressed in a black uniform who puts a collar around the sorcerers neck, locks it on and then gets the ability to cast the sorcerer's spells while zapping the sorcerer if he tries to cast them.

perhaps the uniform is better blue with lighting on it?
is this a reference to sul'dam and damane?

Kvess
2021-11-24, 01:38 PM
If we're talking about an industrial society, there are a few options. For most arcane casters, you can lock them inside a suit of cumbersome metal armor that they can't cast spells in. You can also confiscate their spell focuses and 'blind' them with iron masks. It's cruel treatment to be sure, but it would work for short term confinement or extremely high risk individuals.

If this is a society where spellcasting is common, there are even more options — which have the benefit of being somewhat more humane. Guards and Wards could make the prison an effective place to keep anyone, with thick fog preventing prisoner spellcasters from seeing their surroundings clearly. A Geas forbidding spellcasting could create problems for a mage that manages to escape. Sympathy/Antipathy, Bestow Curse, and Silence are also helpful.

Wintermoot
2021-11-24, 05:33 PM
perhaps the uniform is better blue with lighting on it?
is this a reference to sul'dam and damane?

I don't know what that is.



If we're talking about an industrial society, there are a few options. For most arcane casters, you can lock them inside a suit of cumbersome metal armor that they can't cast spells in. You can also confiscate their spell focuses and 'blind' them with iron masks. It's cruel treatment to be sure, but it would work for short term confinement or extremely high risk individuals.

I love this. Keep the sorcerers in line by putting them in a breastplate they can't take off. Just lock that baby on. You get a good AC and a high arcane spell failure rate.

Kane0
2021-11-24, 10:21 PM
Short term (transport) handbound, blindfolded and/or gagged.

Long term (resident) drugged and isolated.

King of Nowhere
2021-11-25, 07:16 AM
I don't know what that is.

In the Wheel of Time (of which, btw, they're just releasing a tv adaptation i can recommend) there is a people who found a way to control magic users with a collar on a leash.
They believe all magic users are evil, and must be tamed for the good of society.
Those holding the leash are called sul'dam, and they have a blue uniform with red lightning. Leashed ones are called damane. The collar allows the sul'dam to use the magic power of the damane, while the damane trying to use magic on her own would get violently sick.
It's very similar to your suggestion

Witty Username
2021-12-05, 06:13 PM
Guards that can cast counterspell or dispel magic could be pretty effective.
Like say a 5th level caster with 1st level spells like sleep or thunderwave for riot suppression.
And spells like silence, counterspell and dispell magic to disrupt casting.

Now your confinement method is sensible but also can be beaten tactically, socially or by out matching. Works nicely if the method of confinement is they have nowhere to go after escaping.

Easy e
2021-12-07, 05:51 PM
In most medieval and ancient settings, the punishment for crimes of various levels were severe and immediate. You were killed, maimed, sold into slavery, or paid a fine. If you failed to pay the fine.... then you were killed, maimed, or sold into slavery.

There was not a lot of imprisoning people unless they were very, very valuable/rich and could be ransomed.

Duff
2021-12-07, 10:57 PM
If this sounds like torture, then yes it would be, the spellcaster is likely to come out of their time in captivity traumatised, broken and possibly unable to ever fully recover from the experience.

The downside being; any mage powerful enough to deserve this time and effort is either locked up and tortured for the rest of their life, or they get out at some point. And they may have some sternly worded complaints to write to the smoking ruin of the prison once they get their magic back.
So unless torturing for the rest of their life is the actual point of this, it's a terrible idea