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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Valda's Spire of Secrets (new classes thoughts)



KittenMagician
2021-10-24, 11:41 PM
Mage Hand Press recently had a Kickstarter to support the production of a book called Valda's Spire of Secrets (VSoS). I backed it and they sent me a PDF download of it as the physical book will take some time. The book is 385 pages and includes 10 new classes, each of which have 8 subclasses, 6 new subclasses for each class found in the Player's Handbook, not including Artificer, and a variety of additional weapons, armor, magic items, spells, and variant rules. A lot of the new classes found in Valda's Spire of Secrets can be purchased individually from Mage Hand Press. I would like to take some time to share my thoughts on the book and its contents and maybe hear your thoughts on it if you have it or just want to discuss the contents in more detail.

Overall book rating: 8.7/10

New classes


I know this group is covered by the Artificer subclass, but alchemists there feel more like they are wading about halfway into the pool that is alchemy. The new Alchemist class presented in VSoS feels more focused on alchemy and a deeper dive into it. This class uses Intelligence as its primary ability score and focuses on making bombs and potions, of which they can learn to make a variety of each. The potions made by this class tend to lose potency after 24 hours. This class does feel needlessly complicated with 2 long lists of optional bombs and discoveries.

The Fields of Study (subclasses) are Amorist, Apothecary, Dynamo Engineer, Mad Bomber, Mutagenist, Ooze Rancher, Venomsmith, and Xenoalchemist. Each has their own signature bomb formula and actually seem like they would play rather differently from each other.

Overall class rating: 6/10
Overall subclass rating: 7/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

Captain is an unusual martial class that uses Charisma as its primary ability score. What makes them different from almost all the other martial classes is they don't get Extra Attack. they also have a friendly NPC under their control much like how Beastmaster Rangers have a beast companion. These allies, referred to as Cohorts can take the form of a simplified version of almost all the classes from an abbot (cleric) to a cultist (warlock) and a templar (paladin) and includes a construct and undead options. This class brings in a nice aspect to Charisma in the form of a leader that isn't inherently a paladin or bard and can fill the face role while providing group benefits like as a bonus action allowing a friendly creature within 60ft to use its reaction to make a melee attack or move up to its speed.

The Banners (subclasses) to choose from are Dragon, Eagle, Jolly Roger, Lion, Ram, Raven, and Turtle. Each would have a different play style but I think the Dragon Banner is the best and your choice of Cohort is what would really change how this class plays and would allow you to fill in that hole your party might otherwise have.

Overall class rating: 9/10
Overall subclass rating: 7.5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

The Craftsman is another interesting martial class that want a high Intelligence after its primary damage ability score. The Craftsman brings in a much needed light to the idea of crafting. They focus on making and upgrading or changing mundane weapons and armor. They can craft items by spending some time and money, half the cost of the item crafted, during a long rest. They can then also spend this same time adding or removing properties such as heavy, finesse, reach, and more to items rather than craft new items. This allows for some fun customization for the character/party. However the long, long lists of possible options for these upgrades, one for armor and one for weapons, make the class feel needlessly complicated much like the Alchemist above.

The Artisans' Guilds (subclasses) to choose from are Arcane Maesters', Armigers', Bladeworkers', Calibarons', Forgeknights', Mechanauts', Thunderlords', and Trappers'. Each subclass kinda feels similar to the others and makes the class just feel even more bogged down. Even though it feels a bit overwhelming I still actually quite like this class.

Overall class rating: 7.5/10
Overall subclass rating: 6.5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

Haven't read it yet as I'm not particularly keen on guns in D&D. Expect future edits and updates to fill this in.

The Investigator kinda feels Rogue-ish with a high need for Intelligence. The class has the Ritual Caster feat baked in starting at 1st level. This class feels like they were aiming at making a Sam or Dean Winchester from the show Supernatural in D&D. Although flavor wise they more or less achieve that goal, mechanically the class is heavily lacking.

The Occult Specializations (subclasses) are Antiquarian, Archivist, Detective, Exterminator, Inquisitor, Medium, Occultist, and Spy. Each subclass gets 1 or more trinkets which work similar to a cleric/paladin channel divinity but the base class lacking in mechanical strength drags down on the subclasses.

Overall class rating: 4.5/10
Overall subclass rating: 5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

The Martyr is a very unique, interesting, and, dare I say, awesome class. This class uses a d12 hit die and is a very capable martial class with the ability to sacrifice hit points to cast cleric/paladin style spells. A 1st level spell costs them 5 hit points and a 2nd level spell costs 10. Their level determines the max level spell they can cast, capping out at 5th level for 45 hit points. The main downside to this class flavor wise is that their capstone ability is insanely powerful but at the end of it, short of divine intervention, you die and can't be returned to life by any means.

The Mortal Burdens (subclasses) are Atonement, Discord, the End, Mercy, Rebirth, revolution, Truth, and Tyranny. They each bring unique flavors of play to the self-sacrificing this class likes to do. The RP style of each subclass feels similar to cleric subclasses.

Overall class rating: 9/10
Overall subclass rating: 8.5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

This is the first full caster in VSoS and uses Intelligence as its primary ability score. much like the Captain you get NPC undead minions that follow your command. However unlike the Captain's Cohort which grow in strength with the Captain, the Necromancer's Thralls are stuck at one level of power. The Necromancer makes up for this lack of power in its minions with the ability to have more than one, limited based on the minions CR and the Necromancer's proficiency bonus. The Necromancer also has a pool of points much like a paladins Lay on Hands ability that the Necromancer can use to deal damage or for other abilities.

The Grave Ambitions (subclasses) are Blood Ascendant, Death Knight, Overlord, Pale Master Pharaoh, Plague Lord, Reanimator, and Reaper. Each subclass determines the form the class's capstone ability, Lichdom, takes. This class feels like what the Necromancy School for Wizard wishes it could dream of being.

Overall class rating: 10/10
Overall subclass rating: 9/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

This class is a non-magical martial class that has a very paladin-esque feel to it. It makes for a very excellent tank class even though it doesn't get heavy armor proficiency as it has the ability to root all creatures around you in place unless they take the disengage action. This rooting ability is a bonus action, by the way. This class overall feels rather generic as there isn't a lot to make it feel stand out-ish from a RP stand point.

The Champion's Calls (subclasses) are Bloodwrath Guardian, Grey Watchman, Nightgaunt, Soulblood Shaman, Stoneheart Defender, Storm Sentinel, and Verdant Protector. These subclasses operate a lot like a paladin's oath and still feel as generic as the base class. This generic-ness doesn't mean there aren't fun abilities and ideas, it just doesn't immediately evoke character ideas to me.

Overall class rating: 6/10
Overall subclass rating: 6/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

The Warmage is an interesting caster that focuses almost exclusively on cantrips, getting a total of 10 cantrips by 20th level. Their cantrips are more potent dealing more damage starting at 5th level and gaining tricks that give cantrips more capabilities. This cantrip centricity is a really unique and fun idea and I really like this class.

The Warmage Houses (subclasses) are Bishops, Cards, Dice, Kings, Knights, Lancers, Pawns, and Rooks. Each subclass has its own special tricks to empower themselves that the other Houses can't get. The House of Dice and House of Cards in particular have a fun time utilizing luck and chance to up the ante on their power.

Overall class rating: 8.5/10
Overall subclass rating: 8.5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

The Witch is the only other full caster in the new classes besides the Necromancer. They utilize curses and hexes to debilitate enemies and buff themselves/allies. They also automatically get the Find Familiar spell and the familiars they summon are a bit more powerful with they ability to become even more powerful. My favorite ability this class gets is the ability to make a coven with up to 2 other spellcasters (they need the spellcasting or pact magic feature) and it give all of them extra spells to cast along with 5 communal spell slots.

The Witch's Crafts (subclasses) are Black Magic, Blood Magic, Green Magic, Purple Magic, Red Magic, Steel Magic, Tea Magic, Technicolor Magic, and White Magic. Each one give a very different feel to a witch character and can make them feel like a nice old lady witch who just wants to help or an evil witch who wants to curse the world into oblivion.

Overall class rating: 10/10
Overall subclass rating: 9.5/10
(I'm willing to discuss the class and subclasses in more detail)

This is all the new classes presented in Valda's Spire of Secrets. I would really like to discuss these with people and want to share more about this fun 3rd party resource. I plan on making additional threads about the other new stuff added in VSoS.

Scarce
2021-10-25, 04:09 AM
Hey KittenMagician!

It's been a long while since I've logged in here, but I'm Mike from Mage Hand Press, the lead designer on Valda's. I agree with a lot of your points and think you did a really good job summing up the classes.

I'm happy to answer any questions in the thread whenever I poke my head back in here.

KittenMagician
2021-10-25, 08:22 PM
Hey KittenMagician!

I'm Mike from Mage Hand Press, the lead designer on Valda's. I agree with a lot of your points and think you did a really good job summing up the classes.


I really like the book but I did want to say I have noticed a few typos. I saw at least 1 instance of the word "ot" when it was supposed to be "of".

Bryan
2022-02-26, 03:38 PM
Are these the same classes that MHP sells separately or have they been changed / updated?

Kane0
2022-02-26, 04:46 PM
Im interested in hearing more about the captain and alchemy system

MrStabby
2022-02-26, 07:10 PM
So mechanically its hard to take a lot form this, though there isn't much here I would want to see at my table, either played by me or by someone else.

Alchemist sounds good and I imagine it could be entertaining. I think alchemist is really the only Artificer subclass that fits my style of fantasy at all, so cool that someone has worked that up. Amorist and Ooze rancher do call out to me a litle bit.

Captain - I have a bit of a worry around long term intelligent cohorts. From an RP side I think its tough to represent them both being more than a class resource but also less than a full PC. I think that this could be problematic at some tables. Also, seems potentially very complicated and may scale unexpectedly with magic items.

Craftsman - sounds like it needs a lot of downtime and you can end up screwing your players pretty hard if your campaign isn't set up for it. I also worry it sounds a bit passive in play. You hand out your cool items then just stand there whilst things happen around you. Not for me.

Gunslinger - like you, I have no interest in settings with firearms.

Investigator - I am disapointed by your review. I have played a number of characters like the archetypes listed so sad that this apparently doesn't live up to the ideal.

Martyr - I have homebrewed classes that echange HP for power before and realised its is really not a good mechanic. Balancing doing more stuff with needing everyone else to keep you alive is a dodgy mechanic and not really a great dynamic for the game. Letting someone be the center of attention by doing more stuff but in exchange they get to be the center of attention by beig so low on HP isn't cool. Very wary.

Necromancer - more than most classes this seems like it should depend on the detail. I worry about summoner classes generally and I think this poses a tough problem. If it can't do the undead horde thing better than a wizard or cleric then what is the point of it? If lots of undead minions are better than for other classes then it seems like an incentive to adopt a playstyle that bogs the game down and hogs the attention/table time for one player. Of course, there are other ways to capture the necromantic feel - finger of death, toll the dead, even non necormancy spells like spirit guardians so maybe it could fly.

Warden - intreguing as an idea and sounds like it could be a nice addition for a multiclass if the flavour comes from another class. Mobility denying effects can be very powerful and if there is not charm/fear/other tag that enemies can be immune to it could be very strong.

Warmage - maybe I need to see more, but it sounds a bit boring to me. So maybe something I would allow, but wouldn't be tempted by myself.

Witch - I love this type of character and good to hear it getting support. One of the big issues I have found with the archetype before is that it leans really heavily on the save or suck effects and therefore is really no fun when magic resistant enemies or those with legendary saves are running around (lacking attack roll spells, wall spells and not being a character type for those focussing on things like buffing. I would be interested in hearing how they worked around this problem.

Noemad
2022-08-18, 08:51 AM
Hopefully this isn't a completely necro thread.

I was a late backer to the Kickstarter and I've been going thru the PDF for the past few days. I've been mostly interested in the Warden, Warmage and Witch classes and some of the new subclasses for the PHB classes and so far I'm loving what I'm reading. I am a bit confused about one thing on the Warmage though. Under the Warmage tricks section you have the Signature Focus trick which says it works on a simple weapon. There're some very nice features there that make my inner Hexblade Warlock go all a tingly but if you take the House of Knights subclass you gain proficiency in martial weapons. If you want to use a martial weapon does that mean Signature Focus is useless to you? Is that intended or an oversight?