Death attack - who else has it and how can one speed it up?

[Particle_Man]

3.5 only. No Pathfinder.

Which classes have the death attack ability? Is there any way to reduce or eliminate the three rounds of studying one’s target?

[RaiKirah]

The Black Dog (Dragonmarked p95) gives Death Attack which stacks with Assassin for the DC. More notably, the language of the ability says that if you do NOT have Sneak Attack then you can Death Attack anyone who is flanked or denied Dex to AC, getting around the Sneak Attack immune target issue.

[Saintheart]

Deathsight spell from Complete Mage takes out the 3 round chargeup time.

[Rebel7284]

There is also the Marrulurk race from Sandstorm that gives death attack.
3 HD, +1 LA.
Also gives you 2d6 Sneak Attack and poison use to boot.
+2 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +6 Wis, +4 Cha

One of the few solid races even without LA buyoff, but becomes great if you can eventually get rid of the +1 LA.

Soulreaver class from Dragon #297 has Sudden Death at 10th level 1/day that allows you to use death attack as a full round action. However, it's an epic class that requires Epic Spellcasting as a prerequisite.... so while important for completeness, I would think that you wanted a solution that works before level 31. :smallsmile:

Edit:
So looking at Deathsight, it's Divination, so:

Marrulurk Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10

You need Planar Touchstone [Catalogues of Enlightenment] to get Search as a class skill, but you can change to a better domain after you self-qualify for Unseen Seer. Alternatively a Ruathar dip works.
Your first Advanced Learning can be Hunter's Eye as usual
Your second Advanced Learning comes right in time for Deathsight!
You can try to delay your last Advanced Learning for Chose Destiny if you want. Extra fun with free metamagic shenanigant to persist it.

You end up having pretty much all the class features of Assassin but with way better spells.
The only thing that makes me sad is that Marrulurk gets bonuses to every single stat besides Int. :smallannoyed:

[Darg]

Deathsight spell from Complete Mage takes out the 3 round chargeup time.

You can even use an extend rod to make it last 2 attacks.

[Rebel7284]

You can even use an extend rod to make it last 2 attacks.

I don't think that's how it works. It applies to your next attack only. At best, it would let you make that attack in two rounds instead of one if you need better positioning. Alternatively it might do nothing because of the weird duration line.

[Darg]

I don't think that's how it works. It applies to your next attack only. At best, it would let you make that attack in two rounds instead of one if you need better positioning. Alternatively it might do nothing because of the weird duration line.

Hmm, the wording is really similar to true strike. I missed the parenthesis that says it has to be before the end of your next turn. Oh well. Still a good spell.

[mabriss lethe]

For completion's sake, Stonedeath Assassin has a similar ability with analogous mechanics, but instead of being a death attack, it petrifies the target.

[Thurbane]

From the Lists of Stuff:


Death Attack
Assasin 1, ecl 6
Black Flame Zealot 1, ecl 6, Complete Divine
Dark Hunter 5, ecl 10, Complete Warrior
Darkwood Stalker 10, ecl 15, Complete Warrior
Stonedeath Assasin 5, ecl 10, Races of Stone - stonedeath strike, not quite death attack
Cultist of the Shattered Peak 5, ecl ??, Forgotten Realms: Lost Empires of Faerun
Monk of the Long Death ???
Telflammar Shadowlord 6, ecl ???, FR: Unapproachable East
Thayan Slaver 1, ecl 8, FR: Unapproachable East - ennervating attack, can paralyze
Slayer of Domiel 1
Justice of Weald and Woe 10
Strifeleader ??, ecl ??, FR: Faiths & Pantheons
Imaskari Vengeance Seeker 10, ecl ?? , FR: Underdark
Justice of Weald and Woe ?, ecl ?, Champions of Ruin

...also, Foe Hunter 10.

[Nihilarian]

There's an ACF in Mind's Eye that gives Lurk a Death Attack at level 20. It still takes 3 rounds though

[bean illus]

The Black Dog (Dragonmarked p95) gives Death Attack which stacks with Assassin for the DC. More notably, the language of the ability says that if you do NOT have Sneak Attack then you can Death Attack anyone who is flanked or denied Dex to AC, getting around the Sneak Attack immune target issue.

That sounds cool. I wonder about this:

The saving throw against your death attack is DC 10 + your black dog class level + your assassin class level (if any) + your Intelligence modifier.

Is there a way to get assassin without. SA?

The DC without it seems maxed around 25? Is that enough? With assassin 10, black dog 5, and high Int, the DC approaches 35+ (too much?).

Is it better to have DC 20-25 when flanked/denied, for a 2-5 level PRC investment, or DC 35 when sneak attacking for a 15 level PRC investment?

A rouge, wizard, unseen seer, black dog 5 can get quikened, still deathsight DC 15 + Int mod at level 17, 3/day for +2 adjustment; with residual metamagic applying free quicken to a second casting, if repeated within the next round.
Theoretically, at level 20, DC 35-37?

The average Fort save is fort = 1*CR +2, +d20. BBEG with class levels is quite possibly higher. A DC 15 +4 Int mod has a 50/50 success at level 17, vs avg CR.

A fully maxxed Int mod +12, DC 37, vs an avg Fort 22, gives a 75% chance of success (death). Maybe less than 50% vs some opponents. Twice in a round is nice; making it 94% effective vs avg, and nearly 75+% vs all but the most exceptional.

That means the assassin + black dog is very deadly (in a SA) but has less spell power for everything else.

Wiz 4/ Sorc 1/ Ult Magus 1/ Ruathar 1/ Black Dog 3/ Unseen Seer 2/ Ultimate magus (8)
Use US to advance UM, and R to advance W. It ends with wizard 12, and sorc 11.

Wrong. And dumb.
Shuffle them and cast Wiz 13, Sorc 12 (better).

Wiz 4/ Sorc 1/ Ult Magus 1/ Ruathar 1/ Black Dog 2/ UM 1 (2)/ BD 1 (2)/ Unseen Seer 1 (2)/ Ultimate magus 8 (9) +1.

This is fine for our quickened still deathsight, which at level 20 we casts as many as 10/day at +2, and free residual quicken 10 more times by sacrificing sorcerer slots (3x @ 2nd slot, 6x @ 3rd slot. More with higher slots i suppose). Of course, each gets residual metamagic, to be cast again for free.

And deathsight is on your sorcerer list.
And Magus can of course sacrifice 4th or lower slots for any other metamagic that you know (silent, still, invisible, quicken), 1 feat per casting.

[RaiKirah]

The DC without it seems maxed around 25? Is that enough? With assassin 10, black dog 5, and high Int, the DC approaches 35+ (too much?).

Is it better to have DC 20-25 when flanked/denied, for a 2-5 level PRC investment, or DC 35 when sneak attacking for a 15 level PRC investment?

Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion could be used to boost the DC without having Assasin, but not necessarily the best use of build resources.

[Particle_Man]

For that matter, Black Flame Zealot explicitly stacks with Assassin for setting the death attack DC (although Black Flame Zealots don't get to use the paralyze option, so I assume that the BFZ level's don't contribute to the death attack DC when it is used to paralyze rather than kill).

[Darg]

That sounds cool. I wonder about this:


Is there a way to get assassin without. SA?

The DC without it seems maxed around 25? Is that enough? With assassin 10, black dog 5, and high Int, the DC approaches 35+ (too much?).

Is it better to have DC 20-25 when flanked/denied, for a 2-5 level PRC investment, or DC 35 when sneak attacking for a 15 level PRC investment?

A rouge, wizard, unseen seer, black dog 5 can get quikened, still deathsight DC 15 + Int mod at level 17, 3/day for +2 adjustment; with residual metamagic applying free quicken to a second casting, if repeated within the next round. (At later levels, he can quicken it and residual it more also, but at a +3). His caster level is 17.

Theoretically, at level 20, DC 35-37?

The average Fort save is fort = 1*CR +2, +d20. BBEG with class levels is quite possibly higher. A DC 15 +4 Int mod has a 50/50 success at level 17, vs avg CR.

A fully maxxed Int mod +12, DC 37, vs an avg Fort 22, gives a 75% chance of success (death). Maybe less than 50% vs some opponents. Twice in a round is nice; making it 94% effective vs avg, and nearly 75+% vs all but the most exceptional.

That means the assassin + black dog is very deadly (in a SA) but has less spell power for everything else.

Wiz 4/ Sorc 1/ Ult Magus 1/ Ruathar 1/ Black Dog 3/ Unseen Seer 2/ Ultimate magus (8)

Use US to advance UM, and R to advance W. It ends with wizard 12, and sorc 11. This is fine for our quickened still deathsight, which we at level 20 casts as many as 10/day at +2, and free residual quicken 10 more times.

And, you can spontaneously silent cast it, as a sorcerer, whenever you have time.

Deathsight is only on the Assassin spell list. If you want to get rid of the somatic component, arcane thesis with still spell would work. Otherwise, a rod of quicken spell would work to make it a swift action.

[Rebel7284]

Deathsight is only on the Assassin spell list. If you want to get rid of the somatic component, arcane thesis with still spell would work. Otherwise, a rod of quicken spell would work to make it a swift action.

That's likely why all those builds have at least 2 levels of Unseen Seer, since Advanced Learning is good for adding Deathsight to other (better) spell lists.

[bean illus]

Deathsight is only on the Assassin spell list. If you want to get rid of the somatic component, arcane thesis with still spell would work. Otherwise, a rod of quicken spell would work to make it a swift action.





A rouge, wizard, unseen seer, black dog 5 can get quikened, still deathsight DC 15 + Int mod at level 17, 3/day for +2 adjustment; with residual metamagic applying free quicken to a second casting, if repeated within the next round.
Theoretically, at level 20, DC 35-37?

The average Fort save is fort = 1*CR +2, +d20. BBEG with class levels is quite possibly higher. A DC 15 +4 Int mod has a 50/50 success at level 17, vs avg CR.

A fully maxxed Int mod +12, DC 37, vs an avg Fort 22, gives a 75% chance of success (death). Maybe less than 50% vs some opponents. Twice in a round is nice; making it 94% effective vs avg, and nearly 75+% vs all but the most exceptional.

That means the assassin + black dog is very deadly (in a SA) but has less spell power for everything else.

Wiz 4/ Sorc 1/ Ult Magus 1/ Ruathar 1/ Black Dog 3/ Unseen Seer 2/ Ultimate magus (8)
Use US to advance UM, and R to advance W. It ends with wizard 12, and sorc 11.

Wrong. And dumb.
Shuffle them and cast Wiz 13, Sorc 12 (better).

Wiz 4/ Sorc 1/ Ult Magus 1/ Ruathar 1/ Black Dog 2/ UM 1 (2)/ BD 1 (2)/ Unseen Seer 1 (2)/ Ultimate magus 8 (9) +1.

This is fine for our quickened still deathsight, which at level 20 we casts as many as 10/day at +2, and free residual quicken 10 more times by sacrificing sorcerer slots (3x @ 2nd slot, 6x @ 3rd slot. More with higher slots i suppose). Of course, each gets residual metamagic, to be cast again for free.

And deathsight is on your sorcerer list.
And Magus can of course sacrifice 4th or lower slots for any other metamagic that you know (silent, still, invisible, quicken), 1 feat per casting.


A metamagic rod of quicken costs 75k for 3/day? The build i proposed cast silent quicken dozens of time per day, and residual metamagic doesn't repeat rods/etc.

For 79.5k you can grab rods of extend, enlarge, and silent, empower, and a lesser rod of maximize. That would add massive versatility to any build, more so a build with mostly 1st-6th spells.

[Darg]

That's likely why all those builds have at least 2 levels of Unseen Seer, since Advanced Learning is good for adding Deathsight to other (better) spell lists.

I see now. I've never dealt with an unseen seer and I missed the advanced learning when I skimmed it. It works well then.






A metamagic rod of quicken costs 75k for 3/day? The build i proposed cast silent quicken dozens of time per day, and residual metamagic doesn't repeat rods/etc.

For 79.5k you can grab rods of extend, enlarge, and silent, empower, and a lesser rod of maximize. That would add massive versatility to any build, more so a build with mostly 1st-6th spells.

Arcane Thesis, Metamagic School Focus, Residual magic, Echoing Spell, Repeat Spell, Quicken Spell, Silent spell for a total +4 level adjustment (lower if you want to add practical metamagic). With repeat spell you can benefit from 2 death attacks per round and echoing spell makes sure that you can benefit from the same slot multiple times per day.

[mabriss lethe]

On a tangetial note. There's also the Pyrokineticist's Heat Death ability. Which funny enough is not called out as being either a fire or death effect. With a little basic feat support for psionic focus, you can fire it off at range every other round with no "study" time.