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SandDemon
2007-11-17, 07:47 PM
Real quick (all are limited to wizard books):

-Is there a way to have a Dread Necromancer cast Magic Missile at level 1? (has to be cast)

-Are there any other classes that get turn/rebuke at level 1 besides Cleric and Dread Necromancer?

-Are there any good level 1 cleric spells that do any damage (even 1) that do not require an attack? (I know of Burning Hands from Fire Domain, but the range is small for having a domain for it)

Also go under the assumption if you're talking about items, having around 200gp and that you are level 1 for anything.

Douglas
2007-11-17, 08:08 PM
Dread Necromancer is an arcane casting class, right? Take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) for the Force domain (Spell Compendium, not sure of original source). This gets Magic Missile on your class list, but it's a second level spell for you. Take Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) to get one second level spell slot, usable only for Magic Missile and only with a successful caster level check. You can now cast Magic Missile once per day with a successful DC 8 caster level check. If your DM allows flaws, you can add Arcane Mastery (Complete Arcane) to the list so you can take 10 on that check and automatically succeed.

brian c
2007-11-17, 08:11 PM
Dread Necromancer is an arcane casting class, right? Take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) for the Force domain (Spell Compendium, not sure of original source). This gets Magic Missile on your class list, but it's a second level spell for you. Take Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) to get one second level spell slot, usable only for Magic Missile and only with a successful caster level check. You can now cast Magic Missile once per day with a successful DC 8 caster level check. If your DM allows flaws, you can add Arcane Mastery (Complete Arcane) to the list so you can take 10 on that check and automatically succeed.

Neat. A bit convoluted, but neat. And it only took two three splatbooks

To the OP: why do you need to cast Magic Missile? Honestly, it's not that great of a spell

SandDemon
2007-11-17, 08:22 PM
Dread Necromancer is an arcane casting class, right? Take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) for the Force domain (Spell Compendium, not sure of original source). This gets Magic Missile on your class list, but it's a second level spell for you. Take Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) to get one second level spell slot, usable only for Magic Missile and only with a successful caster level check. You can now cast Magic Missile once per day with a successful DC 8 caster level check. If your DM allows flaws, you can add Arcane Mastery (Complete Arcane) to the list so you can take 10 on that check and automatically succeed.

Wow.....you, my man, are awesome and I bow before your DnD knowledge madness.

My only problem now is the errata with Divine Metamagic, saying it has to be used on divine spells - which screws my idea of a Dread Necromancer using Divine Metamagic I think (it is arcane casting).


To the OP: why do you need to cast Magic Missile? Honestly, it's not that great of a spell

Was trying to use Divine Metamagic on Magic Missle at level 1, so guess that's out with the errata.

Any "area" spells that deal damage at level 1 besides Burning Hands?

martyboy74
2007-11-17, 08:25 PM
If you're getting Magic Missile through the force domain, as outlined, then it counts as a divine spell. DMM away (with what, though?).

brian c
2007-11-17, 08:33 PM
If you're getting Magic Missile through the force domain, as outlined, then it counts as a divine spell. DMM away (with what, though?).

You're an arcane caster, but you get divine domain spells, one of which is generally an arcane spell, but you now cast it as a divine spell. If you did this same thing with a Sorc/Wiz, would they potentially be able to cast Magic Missile as an arcane spell, and also be able to cast it as a divine spell?

SandDemon
2007-11-17, 08:33 PM
Arcane Discipline:
Add the chosen domainís spells to your class list
of arcane spells. If you have arcane spellcasting ability from
more than one class, you must pick which arcane spellcasting
ability this feat applies to. Once chosen, this decision
cannot be changed for that feat.
You may learn these spells as normal for your class; however,
you use Wisdom (rather than the normal ability for
your spellcasting) when determining the save DC for the
spell. In addition, you must have a Wisdom score equal to
10 + the spellís level in order to prepare or cast a spell gained
from this feat.
Each day, you may prepare (or cast, if you cast spells without
preparation) a maximum of one of these domains spells
of each level.

Unless I'm reading that wrong, a Dread Necromancer would be casting an arcane magic missile....not a divine one.

And I'm just messing around for the Arena, had a pretty sick idea.

Douglas
2007-11-17, 08:37 PM
No, Arcane Disciple specifically adds the spells to your class list of arcane spells, so Divine Metamagic won't work. It's also rather limited in that you can only spend a single spell slot of each level on your chosen domain spells each day, so it won't really work as a staple spell. Plus, you've already spent 2 or 3 feats to get Magic Missile in the first place, so spending even more feats to get Divine Metamagic isn't really an option until significantly higher level.

martyboy74
2007-11-17, 08:37 PM
If that doesn't work, Alternative Spell Source (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,Dragon)would make it a divine spell.

SandDemon
2007-11-17, 08:42 PM
If that doesn't work, Alternative Spell Source (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,Dragon)would make it a divine spell.

Not a wizard book, that's magazine.

And actually, if I do a human with 2 flaws (max allowed in Arena)....it's possible to get a Divine Metamagic (using 2 feats) and magic missile (2 feats)...especially if I took domains that gave metamagic feats. Although this is a problem that it's considered arcane so I cannot use Metamagic.

Is there anyway I could cast magic missile as a cleric at level 1? Precocious apprentice is arcane caster required....

Nerd-o-rama
2007-11-17, 08:51 PM
Wouldn't the Force Domain give your cleric Magic Missile at level 1? Or is it the second level spell?

Also, while it's still up to your DM, Dargon Magazine is (well, was) an official, WotC-approved-all-its-content publication, despite being published by Paizo. In fact, as of a month or two ago, all its operations have been taken over fully by WotC, who are moving what would have been future Dragon content to their website, making it even more official (and pissing off long-time Dragon subscribers).

brian c
2007-11-17, 08:53 PM
Wouldn't the Force Domain give your cleric Magic Missile at level 1? Or is it the second level spell?

Also, while it's still up to your DM, Dargon Magazine is (well, was) an official, WotC-approved-all-its-content publication, despite being published by Paizo. In fact, as of a month or two ago, all its operations have been taken over fully by WotC, who are moving what would have been future Dragon content to their website, making it even more official (and pissing off long-time Dragon subscribers).

Magic Missile is the 2nd level spell in Force Domain.

Also, what's a Dargon?

Seriously, I don't blame any DM for not allowing Dragon magazine stuff. Some of it gets crazy, and it's definitely not examined as closely as the stuff in the books (and we all know how balanced the books are)

SandDemon
2007-11-17, 09:09 PM
No magazine, arena rules.....

Although I think I am finished with the most broken level 1 caster I can think of:

Incarnate (http://pbp.flockofllamas.com/profiler/view.php?id=10) (who worships Pun-Pun)

+9 Initiative to cast a Sculpted (120ft line) Fell Drainining (negative 1 level) Burning Hands with a Dragon Ruby (doubling range to 240 ft line).

:smallbiggrin:

Did I mention that's a no-save instant kill for any other level 1 character? Fell Drain is awesome!