Wizard spellbook blues

[Thurbane]

In one of the games I regularly play in, I'm playing my first 3E Wizard (Thurbane the Evoker - a recreation of one of my most beloved 1E/2E characters), and I have to say, Wizards get the royal screwjob, especially at low levels, when it comes to gaining new spells.

I mean, c'mon, 8 HOURS (or is that a day? The description in the Spellcraft table and the section on adding spells to a spellbook seem to contradict each other, even in the Rules Compendium) to see if you know a spell or not? Then a FULL DAY to write the bloody thing into your spellbook? Not to mention the GP costs.

On top of the already oppressive RAW, the DM has houseruled that my 2 automatic spells for gaining a level don't just "appear" in my spellbook, I have to make some form of contact with the Wizards Guild in order to get them. To be fair, he made this houserule before he fully understood how hard it already is for a Wizard to gain spells (this is his first outing at DMing under 3E). He also likes to play the "keep the party poor so they have a reason to keep adventuring" style of game, which in general I don't mind, as it is a nod back to our old 1E days. But it basically means that every spare GP I get can't go anywhere except on spells and materials to scribe them into my book. So while everyone else is loading up on potions and other gear, I'm scrimping and scraping for spell costs.

The time factor is the crusher, though. In an adventure where you are "racing the clock", like RHoD, you simply can't afford to plop down for a few days learning and scribing spells. While the fate of the kingdom might rest on stopping the BBEG before he completes a certain ritual or gets his army into place, the poor old Wizard has two options: stick with the 2 free spells he gets per level; or sit down and start studying/scribing, holding himself (and probably the whole party) back from their urgent task.

Does anyone have any tips for me? I really do want to play a Wizard, and not a Sorcerer, Warmage or other class. Any ideas to help with the time (and GP) burden would be much appreciated. ***Note: the game is basically core only, so I'm not sure how much options from non-core books can help me.

Also, which is the correct time period for learning a new spell - 8 hours or 24 hours?

[martyboy74]

Learning a spell from another wizard's spellbook takes 24 hours. Writing it in your spellbook requires an additional 24 hours.

This is rather appropriate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html)

[Zeful]

In one of the games I regularly play in, I'm playing my first 3E Wizard (Thurbane the Evoker - a recreation of one of my most beloved 1E/2E characters), and I have to say, Wizards get the royal screwjob, especially at low levels, when it comes to gaining new spells.

I mean, c'mon, 8 HOURS (or is that a day? The description in the Spellcraft table and the section on adding spells to a spellbook seem to contradict each other, even in the Rules Compendium) to see if you know a spell or not? Then a FULL DAY to write the bloody thing into your spellbook? Not to mention the GP costs.I believe it's one spell a day. But I can't get in to www.d20srd.com so I can't confirm.


On top of the already oppressive RAW, the DM has houseruled that my 2 automatic spells for gaining a level don't just "appear" in my spellbook, I have to make some form of contact with the Wizards Guild in order to get them. To be fair, he made this houserule before he fully understood how hard it already is for a Wizard to gain spells (this is his first outing at DMing under 3E). He also likes to play the "keep the party poor so they have a reason to keep adventuring" style of game, which in general I don't mind, as it is a nod back to our old 1E days. But it basically means that every spare GP I get can't go anywhere except on spells and materials to scribe them into my book. So while everyone else is loading up on potions and other gear, I'm scrimping and scraping for spell costs. Just to be fair, they never did "appear" in your spellbook, you learn them and can scribe them at no cost however.


The time factor is the crusher, though. In an adventure where you are "racing the clock", like RHoD, you simply can't afford to plop down for a few days learning and scribing spells. While the fate of the kingdom might rest on stopping the BBEG before he completes a certain ritual or gets his army into place, the poor old Wizard has two options: stick with the 2 free spells he gets per level; or sit down and start studying/scribing, holding himself (and probably the whole party) back from their urgent task.

Does anyone have any tips for me? I really do want to play a Wizard, and not a Sorcerer, Warmage or other class. Any ideas to help with the time (and GP) burden would be much appreciated. ***Note: the game is basically core only, so I'm not sure how much options from non-core books can help me.
You've summed up you position nicely you're stuck unless you play a Sorcerer or other. But I would recomend picking your spells very, very carefully, untill you can get some time to scribe.

Note: Just got in and even the Srd is confused, I would ask the DM to use the 8 hour scribing time under spellcraft, meaning 3 spells a day.

Good luck.

[brian c]

How often are you leveling up, honestly? It shouldn't be a big deal. Wizards have a huge advantage over sorcerers because they can learn new spells; a wizard can, theoretically, learn every arcane spell that exists. A sorcerer gets two per level, that's it.

Anyway, here's my take on the rules. The SRD says "Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures." The developers of 3e intended for people to level up between adventures, not just every couple of sessions, while you're busy doing things. Your DM can rule however he wants to on this, but my opinion is that forcing you to take time to write your level-up spells into your spellbook is unfair, if you've leveled up in the middle of an important mission. Just say that you've been in the process of writing them and learning them for a while. In fact, specifically "Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level."

Now for other spells you may want to learn... Wizards are Int-focused characters, and you should be pumping spellcraft, so unless you have terrible luck with dice, you should have no trouble hitting the DC to learn a spell. It does take 24 hours, but I think that can only be reasonably interpreted as including your rest for the night (you don't have to sit at your desk 24 hours straight just to learn a spell). The cost of 100gp per page is given, as most costs are, with the expectation of Wealth By Level. I don't know how familiar you are with 3rd edition, but in the DMG there's a table listing approximately how much a character should be expected to have at each level. I'd replicate it for you, but it's not OGL. If your party is far below that, then you are at a disadvantage in many ways; you won't get as many spells being one, but also your party won't have good enough gear for your level, and you will have a hard time beating level-appropriate encounters. I would make sure your DM familiarizes himself with all of this information.

[AslanCross]

I'm pretty sure the learning of new spells is explicitly mentioned in the 3.5 PHB to be "spells learned through your own research," and as such this does not cost you anything. See page 179 of the 3.5 PHB. (It's near the top)

[Tyger]

Well, as much as I can sympathize with you (playing a level 10 wizard with the wealth of a level 4 character, all of which has gone into spell research and scribing them into his book) the limitation is there to present a counter balance to the overall power of the class. Wizards are (once you get past that 4th level) one of the more powerful and, more importantly for this discussion, versatile classes in the game, and anything that allows them to be even more versatile has the potential to unbalance things a bit.

[tyckspoon]

Acquire a Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) posthaste. It won't help with the time requirements, but it'll ease the cash fees (well, eventually. It's a relatively large hit upfront.) and it's easier to carry around than ten 100 page mundane books. Other than that, the only thing you can really do is petition the DM to give you some more time off. The designers didn't intend people to be adventuring all year round; the 'official' way to play the game (mind, this is the same 'official' way in which Wizards are mostly for blasting, Clerics are mostly for healing, and Fighters often get to make a full attack and aren't targeted with Will-based save/loses.) has the party taking a month or so off between every level or two. Unlike some of the other stuff that goes into 'standard' D&D, that one is a pretty good idea.

[TheOOB]

If your DM isn't going to give you the liquid resources and down time to make a decent spellbook, perhaps you can agree to make a houserule that changes how much time/money scribing spells takes.

[Seffbasilisk]

Quick solution, not total solution mind you. Is get a Ring of Sustenance. 2.5K and your sleep-requirements are down to 2hours/night with the added bonus of not needing to eat/drink either. The other six you can put towards scribing/learning spells as that's restful enough to allow you to recover spells.

[brian c]

Quick solution, not total solution mind you. Is get a Ring of Sustenance. 2.5K and your sleep-requirements are down to 2hours/night with the added bonus of not needing to eat/drink either. The other six you can put towards scribing/learning spells as that's restful enough to allow you to recover spells.

It only says 2 hours of sleep = 8 hours of sleep. you still need 8 hours of rest in order to recover spells.

[Jack Mann]

I think his point is that scribing/learning spells could be construed as restful, and thus could take place in the other six hours. One could make a case that it would constitute a demanding mental task, however.

[Rad]

One could make a case that it would constitute a demanding mental task, however.
IMHO one would have a really hard time trying to put together a case that it can be considered rest.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Sustenance
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp. I think that is fairly specific. The ring makes you only need to sleep for 1/4th of the time you usually do, and you are considered to have gotten all the rest your body needs for the purposes of effects based on sleep, such as spell regeneration.

[Toliudar]

Honestly, I think that the best chance you have of coming out of this situation happy is to discuss the matter with the DM. If he's new to DM'ing in 3.X, then odds are good he's not working through how this style of leveling (characters "ping" up, but only wizards have to work overtime to gain their class abilities) are hampering your character. It doesn't seem too abusive to ask for a week or two of downtime between chunks of the adventure path you're on, or a relaxation of the total research time required for new spells.

[Kaelik]

Instead of the Ring of Sustenance, try Heward's Fortifying Bedroll. (Complete Arcane or Mage, not sure.) Makes it so only one hour of "rest" is needed. You still shouldn't cast spells in the seven hours before you rest though, so it gives you plenty of time to work on that scribing.

Money on the other hand, that's a different issue.

[brian c]

I think that is fairly specific. The ring makes you only need to sleep for 1/4th of the time you usually do, and you are considered to have gotten all the rest your body needs for the purposes of effects based on sleep, such as spell regeneration.

Sorry.


Rest

To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

Emphasis mine. Heward's bedroll specifically bypasses this criteria, saying that 1 hour also gives you enough rest for spellcasting. Ring of Sustenance does not, therefore you still need to rest, and not perform any "fairly demanding physical or mental task" which surely includes scribing a spell. Basically, you have to sit for 6 hours and do nothing.

[Segial]

1) Rent your spellbook to other mages so they can copy spells from it.

2) Offer casting spells like "identify" or "analyze dweomer" to merchants or adventuer parties for a fee.

3) Create and sell custom-made magic items.

[Clementx]

Here is one of those little difficulties. Interesting plots have time constraints, which means downtime is rare. Every class except spellcasters has little to do in downtime, and doesn't want it. Arcane spellcasters need piles of it, but when they get extra, they can actually do profitable things, like craft magic items or sell their spellcasting. Profession, Perform, and nonmagical Craft sucks for making an impact on the life/wallet of an adventurer. Who needs to recover a significant hit points naturally when the cleric can fix you?

Idea: ask your DM if you can divide up the 8 hours to learn the spell and the 24 to scribe it into smaller increments (and you kinda have to do that already, unless you want frail Elven wizards having to pull all-nighters to get their class features). Spend your time at camp plugging away at Evard's Black Tentacles, and so on. It's really hard to spare a two days to learn one spell while saving the world. It's a little better working a spell over the course of the week of saving the world.

Idea: ask your DM to work in a little more downtime between adventures, to keep the progress of everyone's abilities within the bounds of verisimilitude, and so you can live up to your potential a bit. If he thinks this is giving you an unfair advantage (which it only does when you have infinite time to learn the entire PHB like Batman), mention the fact that the other party members could be working as hirelings/instructors/guildmasters/consultants, receiving moderate monetary/social/politcal rewards while you are locked away blowing your college fund on ink and pizza delivery.

[horseboy]

Idea: ask your DM to work in a little more downtime between adventures, to keep the progress of everyone's abilities within the bounds of verisimilitude, and so you can live up to your potential a bit. If he thinks this is giving you an unfair advantage (which it only does when you have infinite time to learn the entire PHB like Batman), mention the fact that the other party members could be working as hirelings/instructors/guildmasters/consultants, receiving moderate monetary/social/politcal rewards while you are locked away blowing your college fund on ink and pizza delivery.
You know, back in the day, this sort of stuff went on during the winter. It seems like nobody has winter now, what with there being no rules for the seasons changing and all. :smallwink:

[martyboy74]

No one wants to have to walk uphill to school both ways in the snow without shoes anymore.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yeah, that's what Teleportation is for.

Oh, wait, I'm still 50 gp short of being able to scribe that.

*starts trudging*

Where's a barbarian when you need him?:smallannoyed:

[UserClone]

You know, back in the day, this sort of stuff went on during the winter. It seems like nobody has winter now, what with there being no rules for the seasons changing and all. :smallwink:

What, you mean like Frostburn?

[icefractal]

Some ideas:

1) Talk to your DM about the difficulties you're having, get him to revoke his houserules about the spells you automatically get.

2) When aquiring spells from other Wizards, you don't necessarily have to pay them for it - you can trade access to your own spells; most Wizards, especially those in the same guild, would accept an equal level trade.

3) Wizards have a lot of ways to make money - use them. Sell spellcasting services in town. Once you get it, you Fabricate to triple your commercial investments. Use divination spells to cheat at betting.

4) The Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane, in a sidebar) feat increases your free spells to 4/level.

5) A homunculus can craft items using your abilties. It would be reasonable for it to be able to scribe spells. Make one, then stick it in a bag of holding and have it do the scribing while you adventure and sleep.

6) Not useful till you're higher level, but travelling to a plane with significantly faster time can cut scribing and research time to effectively zero.

7) Encourage other party members to take up time-consuming activities like crafting their own weapons and armor (goes well with low wealth, actually). Then you've got more support for taking a long time in town.

8) If a lot of your time is travel, buy a wagon, and ride inside it doing your scribing.

[kme]

Another possibility is to take a spellbook from someone else. Either from a dead wizard opponent or borrowed from ally, or you can steal it of course :smalltongue: .