I have been finding my gloomstalker boring in combat, any advice?

[Rfkannen]

I am in a roleplay-heavy campaign that's been going for three years now, and while I love my character in RP, I find him boring as dirt in combat. He is a level 15 gloomstalker ranger with a flying mount and a magic bow that casts lightning bolt, thunder step, control winds, and dominate beasts.

Combat has just been super formulaic:
if we are outside, I hop on the mount, fly as high as I can get, cast guardian of nature, and then sharpshoot attack every round at every enemy. If someone attacks me, I can use shadowy dodge, but that hasn't happened very often. If the enemies are ever all in a line, I lightning bolt.
If we are fighting indoors (which we usually are), I play the same, except if the room isn't pitch black, I cast greater invisibility instead of guardian of nature. If there is something to climb onto to get out of the range of enemies, I climb onto it. When an enemy gets into melee range, I either zephyr strike or thunder step away from them. I don't usually bother hiding since I already have an advantage on attacks.
If it is minor combat that I am not worried about, I switch out the spell I am concentrating on for hunters mark. That's it; that's all the mixing up of combat that happens.

I haven't found any ranger spells worth casting in combat that don't have concentration, and its not worth breaking my guardian of nature concentration to cast hail of thorns or some attack spell with a minor effect, so I just never use any other spells in combat.

I am a perfectly powerful character (Sharpshooter alone means I do by FAR the most damage in the entire party), but it's just DULL. This campaign is my first time playing an archer, and I don't plan to play another; you don't get the versatility of a caster or the high stakes matchups of a melee martial. I am certain that there's something I could be doing to make this character more engaging in combat, some better spells or feats I could pick, some more fun strategies, but I haven't been able to figure it out.

For context, the other pcs are a sword and board battle master, a moon druid, and a hexblade whisper bard.


Do you have any tips for having a more engaging combat experience as an archery focused gloomstalker?

[Chronic]

Well combat in general in 5e is formulaic, and ranged martial characters even more so. Placement is fairly irrelevant, and your attack options aren't varied. I'm sure you could come up with new spells and such, but at the end of the day, ranged martial are usually dull, but effective.

[Rfkannen]

Well combat in general in 5e is formulaic, and ranged martial characters even more so. Placement is fairly irrelevant, and your attack options aren't varied. I'm sure you could come up with new spells and such, but at the end of the day, ranged martial are usually dull, but effective.

Yeah that fits my experiances. The only two characters I haven't enjoyed in combat were my eldritch blast focused warlock and this archer ranger. (my favorites were my melee battlemaster fighter, my life cleric, and my necromancer wizard). it doesn't help this character but its something to keep in mind in the future. This campaign is REALLY low combat (we haven't fought in I think... 5 sessions?) so it isn't too big of a problem I guess.

[TyGuy]

What's your spell loadout?

[strangebloke]

It sounds like your DM is running a 1 to 2 encounter per day scheme, which makes a lot of conventionally good ranger things you have available less good. Variations in strategy come down to variations in play, and if every encounter has similar conditions (in this case, every encounter sounds like its full resources with a relatively open map) its very easy to fall into the same habits. Its surprising to me that you've never had an enemy attack or cast a spell upon your mount, which could really make things interesting for you. Basically it sounds like your DM is struggling to challenge your optimized high level character and I have ideas for him but he's not here. :smalltongue:

However, there are... some things you can do if you change your mindset a bit.

Against low AC enemies, or low hp enemies, guardian of nature probably isn't that good. Your to-hit has to already be a +12 or something like that at least and stalker's flurry, so even with the -5 from sharpshooter you might have more accuracy than is really interesting. A spell to consider here is conjure animals, which will certainly give you a lot to do and will add a lot of damage and board control (and damage mitigation as enemies waste attacks on the wolves or whatever you summoned)

I'd further argue that opening with something like lightning arrow can actually be a good use of concentration for the single turn you're using it. It's not a very efficient spell in terms of resources but it sounds like you're swimming in resources. A single lightning arrow can deal a whopping 6d8+5+10=42 damage to a single enemy, plus the small aoe. I'd have to do the math to see what the target AC has to be to make it worth it on a pure concentration standpoint.

Finally you may already know this but you can do thing pre-combat that may not be the most interesting but would at least be new. Stuff like upcasting aid for example works pretty well.

[Dork_Forge]

Have you considered using melee just for fun? Even if it's not the optimal thing you've built for, changing it up every now and then can be good if you feel bored with your playstyle.

Have to agree with strangebloke though, if you can regularly cast Guardian of Nature, then I'm guessing you have low number encounter days, which makes this problem worse as you can afford to get comfortable.

[Rfkannen]

What's your spell loadout?

Cure wounds, ensuring strike, hunter's mark, hail of thorns, zephyr strike, pass without trace spike growth, revivify, all the gloomstslker spells, the primal awareness spells, and the ones from his bow.


It sounds like your DM is running a 1 to 2 encounter per day scheme, which makes a lot of conventionally good ranger things you have available less good. Variations in strategy come down to variations in play, and if every encounter has similar conditions (in this case, every encounter sounds like its full resources with a relatively open map) its very easy to fall into the same habits. Its surprising to me that you've never had an enemy attack or cast a spell upon your mount, which could really make things interesting for you. Basically it sounds like your DM is struggling to challenge your optimized high level character and I have ideas for him but he's not here. :smalltongue:

However, there are... some things you can do if you change your mindset a bit.

Against low AC enemies, or low hp enemies, guardian of nature probably isn't that good. Your to-hit has to already be a +12 or something like that at least and stalker's flurry, so even with the -5 from sharpshooter you might be lacking a bit. A spell to consider here is conjure animals, which will certainly give you a lot to do and will add a lot of damage and board control (and damage mitigation as enemies waste attacks on the wolves or whatever you summoned)

I'd further argue that opening with something like lightning arrow can actually be a good use of concentration for the single turn you're using it. It's not a very efficient spell in terms of resources but it sounds like you're swimming in resources. A single lightning arrow can deal a whopping 6d8+5+10=42 damage to a single enemy, plus the small aoe. I'd have to do the math to see what the target AC has to be to make it worth it on a pure concentration standpoint.

Finally you may already know this but you can do thing pre-combat that may not be the most interesting but would at least be knew. Stuff like upcasting aid for example works pretty well.
The gm has been trying super hard to make combat tougher but has said they aren't sure how. I am sure he would apreciate any advice you had! (I could pass it along)

Actually on thinking about it there might have only been like... 2 combats where khial rode his mount. Thinking back most of our fights have been in dungeons. Not sure on that though, last two arcs have not had very much combat (though I'm pretty sure thr upcoming ones will have more, first is a dungeon second is the plane of air)
I hadn't thought about that with ac! I'd worry about slowing down combat with that spell, does summon beats work as well?

Lighting arrow sounds rad!

Thank you for the advice!

[jaappleton]

So... Here's the thing.

You have made a solid, well optimized character.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Let me state that for the record.

The problem is that now you're 15th level and there's kind of nowhere else to go with it.

It's not like being a full caster so you have a new spell level to look forward to every couple levels.

You're at a point in there game where your character is very effective in combat, but there's really no next step to take.

While excellent for sticking with it for so long (especially as a Ranger. You masochist :P ), there's nothing left to do, really. And you're bored.

I'd suggest exploring the idea of swapping subclasses. Talk to your DM if you think that's viable. Maybe you befriend a Dragon and you become a Drakewarden if that sounds more fun?

Alternatively, do what I find most martial ignore: Status effects. There's so much more to combat than high damage numbers. And while killing enemies if effective, since dead foes do zero damage, I fear you've fallen victim to something I myself have fallen victim to: Treating it like a videogame.

By always making the most optimized decision in combat, you're removing RP from combat. It's a common thing to do, to just enter another zone mentally when you roll initiative and instantly think tactics and how to deal max damage.

Instead, focus in what the character would do in that given moment. If you think you could kill an enemy in one round, but your characters best friend is being pinned down by someone else, instead charge that foe and do some heroic stuff to help them. Even if it's detrimental to your own safety.

RP the fight.

[Toadkiller]

Combat is the most boring part of D&D. There I said it. No solutions, but I feel ya fam.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I hear you. I multiclassed out of my Gloomstalker after 9 levels cause I thought the 4th level spells just weren't worth it. The Battlmaster maneuvers were more interesting and gave me more meaningful choices in combat. A couple of rogue levels didn't hurt either.
Honestly I'd go to your DM and ask if you can make a few changes.

[Eldariel]

This is the reason I just don't play martial characters in 5e: the system just doesn't give them interesting things to do nor meaningful growth. If a character doesn't have full casting, it doesn't have enough interesting things coming up as it levels up and over ~10 levels it'll inevitably get extremely samey and boring in combat. Of course, full casting martials like Swords Bard and Bladesinger are fine, but something like Eldritch Knight or, indeed, Ranger just doesn't get new cool stuff fast enough (EK/AT is the worst: you wait 6 levels to get a new spell level - you basically get 4 improvements in ability over the entire game though that's 3 more than Battlemaster at least). Even some casters (Druid, Cleric) are plagued by the fact that they have individual spells that are just so good you should basically never concentrate on anything else over ~5 levels (Conjure Animals, Spirit Guardians - Conjure Woodland Beings is the singular exception here) from an optimization perspective.

[Waazraath]

"Combat becomes boring" is a complaint I mostly heard from ranged builds. Sharp shooter, or a DM that really doesn't care about cover, and positioning becomes irrelevant. Your not in melee, so usually don't need to think about what reaction you take. And some buff spells being obviously best, so no need to think about that either (the 'formulaic' you speak about).

Melee is often simply more interesting: you can block choakpoints, protect the backline, or move around to be able to hit the best target, sometimes deceide to eat an opportunity attack to do so... these all are tactical choices, already being more interesting than the ranged character has that does single target damage: that just has to stand at the backline and fire. There's more risk in melee. And then we haven't discussed the choices the different (sub)classes offer: for the paladin to smite or not, or to use a buff spell, or maybe misty step if available for superior positioning; for the fighter to action surge, or use a subclass ability like maneuvers or runes; for monks to stun, or flurry, or bonus action dodge, or, or, or...

Edit: if you want something else, and not want to do away the character, just experiment a bit with different spells. Having build a character for ranged, with ranged feats, I'd be reluctant to be inefficient in melee. But you can switch your spells for example and start the first round with conjuring some allies for example, or some battlefield control. (or maybe the second round since you don't want to give up your extra gloomstalker attack).

[tokek]

I do think this is a problem with an optimised build, its optimised for one thing and if you get bored of that one thing its a problem.

But really Ranger is hard to over-optimise that much, they are half-casters.

So I would look hard at your spells and start to switch them out for things which give you new options in combat that are effective without just being "Shoot stuff". I find Conjure Animals to be an absolute treat on my ranger for just this reason. In yesterday's battle with an epic wyrm creature he conjured up an giant constrictor snake for a massive Kaiju battle - the snake got the constrict on preventing the wyrm from using its legendary action to burrow out of range of all our attacks and while it did almost no damage it shortened the combat by at least one turn in our favour. Actually now I think of it my ranger did almost no damage that whole combat but still made a big contribution and felt good being the support caster for a change.

He will probably just shoot stuff to death in our next combat. That's fine, he hasn't used his bow for 3 combats now - it's going to feel like fresh fun pin-cushioning something again.

[kazaryu]

I am in a roleplay-heavy campaign that's been going for three years now, and while I love my character in RP, I find him boring as dirt in combat. He is a level 15 gloomstalker ranger with a flying mount and a magic bow that casts lightning bolt, thunder step, control winds, and dominate beasts.

Combat has just been super formulaic:
if we are outside, I hop on the mount, fly as high as I can get, cast guardian of nature, and then sharpshoot attack every round at every enemy. If someone attacks me, I can use shadowy dodge, but that hasn't happened very often. If the enemies are ever all in a line, I lightning bolt.
If we are fighting indoors (which we usually are), I play the same, except if the room isn't pitch black, I cast greater invisibility instead of guardian of nature. If there is something to climb onto to get out of the range of enemies, I climb onto it. When an enemy gets into melee range, I either zephyr strike or thunder step away from them. I don't usually bother hiding since I already have an advantage on attacks.
If it is minor combat that I am not worried about, I switch out the spell I am concentrating on for hunters mark. That's it; that's all the mixing up of combat that happens.

I haven't found any ranger spells worth casting in combat that don't have concentration, and its not worth breaking my guardian of nature concentration to cast hail of thorns or some attack spell with a minor effect, so I just never use any other spells in combat.

I am a perfectly powerful character (Sharpshooter alone means I do by FAR the most damage in the entire party), but it's just DULL. This campaign is my first time playing an archer, and I don't plan to play another; you don't get the versatility of a caster or the high stakes matchups of a melee martial. I am certain that there's something I could be doing to make this character more engaging in combat, some better spells or feats I could pick, some more fun strategies, but I haven't been able to figure it out.

For context, the other pcs are a sword and board battle master, a moon druid, and a hexblade whisper bard.


Do you have any tips for having a more engaging combat experience as an archery focused gloomstalker?

i'd like to echo the people that have suggested changing up your playstyle. There's absolutely nothing wrong with building an optimized character, and there's nothing wrong with playing optimally in combat so long as you're having fun. But, since you're not having fun, why not play sub-optimally. that doesn't mean you need to be useless. lightning arrow may not be optimal...but its still viable, and it still deals damage. why not swoop your flyer down, draw a rapier and try to skewer someone on the way down. get your flyer in the thick of things (obviously...then it risks dying but still). Pull a nazgul and see if you can grab some enemies and drag them into the air. plenty of options that still contribute, without being the exact same formula.

on the note about your mount dying...now, im not sure how you got it, but maybe arrange some way to lose it? a heroic sacrifice to save an ally? perhaps some grave injury leaves it alive and..mostly well, but in a condition where you can't rely on it in combat anymore, so it retires?

grab XBE next level. then you actually *can* go into melee with your longbow.
\

[da newt]

If you can stay out of combat range for team bad guy while plunking away with arrows, combat can be boring - no real risk to you at all, and you are doing great damage so you are contributing, but it feels dull. Especially if the rest of your team isn't in dire peril.

This is at least partially a combat design issue - if the combat isn't challenging it can get boring. There are tons of different ways to make combat more interesting (different goal than just reduce all to zero hp, terrain, many enemies, tactics, multiple directions / levels, line of sight, etc), but what can YOU do to make it more interesting for you ???

I'd look to emphasize the RP aspect; seek ways to be the one going for the McGuffin or whatever will win the day other than kill them all; find ways to impose conditions other than raw damage; and MC into something that will give you new tools to play with. If your DM is permissive, maybe even retcon some levels so you can retroactively MC. Perhaps you can do more scouting and start some fights all alone or try to assassinate the BBEG in one massive strike before they even know you are there. Stuff like that.

[strangebloke]

The gm has been trying super hard to make combat tougher but has said they aren't sure how. I am sure he would apreciate any advice you had! (I could pass it along)

Well, I don't know what specifically has been going here, but the big thing is to make sure that the resources of the party are being tested at least a little some of the time. Conventionally this doesn't happen in an RP heavy campaign because they're using the usual rest rules and they only have one or two combats every couple days. Moving to a ruleset where (for example) a long rest can only be had when there's no danger nearby (you're in an allied stronghold, you're in a city where you're regarded as heroes) will make it so that even if there's only a couple of combats every week in game time, the party will not be 100% fully stocked on spells. It might be too big of a switch at this stage, but its imo the way to play.

For encounters, the big thing is terrain. Design terrain around your monster's abilities. If they have a huge ranged attack and a high speed? Make it a wide open field. Creatures that can throw the party around (like an air elemental?) give them them a nice big cliff nearby. Slow moving melee monsters? Give them something in the encounter that lets them cheat like a mount or maybe a magic ring that lets them walk through walls. Arguably the most common thing that monsters can exploit though is a good solid movement ability like webwalk or swimming or burrowing. Ancient Red Dragon? Scary! But what's more scary is a Ancient Red Dragon swimming in lava.

The goal isn't to make things hard for the players, exactly, though that can be fun, its to make things interesting for the players (and for you).

This Blog is great for this sort of thing: https://www.themonstersknow.com/
Also love this thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?431996-Let-s-Read-The-Dungeons-and-Dragons-5e-Monster-Manual!
Also enjoy this as a way to alter boss monsters and make them scarier: https://theangrygm.com/return-of-the-son-of-the-dd-boss-fight-now-in-5e/

whenever I am going to run with a certain monster for the first time I will look it up in one of the sources above. Helps a lot and makes me inspired to put together combat better


Actually on thinking about it there might have only been like... 2 combats where khial rode his mount. Thinking back most of our fights have been in dungeons. Not sure on that though, last two arcs have not had very much combat (though I'm pretty sure thr upcoming ones will have more, first is a dungeon second is the plane of air)
I hadn't thought about that with ac! I'd worry about slowing down combat with that spell, does summon beats work as well?

Lighting arrow sounds rad!

Thank you for the advice!

So I ran the math, and it depends a bit on how high your base damage is, but Guardian of Nature adds 25% damage at best if we're not considering criticals or stalkers flurry (crits make guardian look better, flurry makes it look worse). If the enemy AC is lower, (say like <15) Guardian looks a lot worse. I'm not sure how much damage you're dealing but if its something like 50-60 per round, Guardian is going to be adding 13 or 15 damage per turn. Which is good!

But if you compare it to 4th level summon beast (which tbf needs to be up ahead of time) the monster gets 2 attacks with advantage that should be something like +9 attack and 1d8+8=12.5 damage as well as being able to tank a bit... well I don't know any exact numbers here but I would guess that the summon beast comes ahead against anything with under 18 AC (unless the enemy has resistance to nonmagical BSP).

Fully understand not wanting to use conjure animals though.


Combat is the most boring part of D&D. There I said it. No solutions, but I feel ya fam.

Kinda seems like combat is most of what dnd is. If its the least fun part, then I would say its time to consider a different system or at least think about how to make the encounters more fun.

[Keravath]

I think part of the issue appears to be that you feel no risk in combat.

"the high stakes matchups of a melee martial"

Most people don't like playing characters that are intentionally sub-optimal if only because the character in the game usually WANTS to survive and the best way to do that is to become the best they can possibly be at what they do. So optimization IS role playing.

However, when playing ranged characters - archers and agonizing blast warlocks are the most common examples - the character is usually in the back, using support spells or spells to enhance their ability to deal damage while not being hit. That is their job. They will mix in a few spells from time to time if they have them but using a bow combined with sharpshooter (especially with easy ways to gain advantage) is what they do.

It is important to realize though that this is EXACTLY the same for any class using at will abilities to do damage. A melee paladin, barbarian, rogue or ranger does exactly the same thing with a melee weapon that the archer does with a bow. They run in, swing their weapon, hit or miss and do damage. The battlemaster fighter is a bit of an exception with their maneuvers but they only have a few every short rest. A paladin gets to choose whether to smite or not. A rogue tries to arrange things to enable sneak attack .. but otherwise the combat for all of these classes is very similar to your ranged archer EXCEPT these characters have a much higher risk of being hit/being damaged/making saves due to monster short range abilities.

The story is actually pretty much the same for casters that stand at the back as well. They either blast or pop one concentration spell and use cantrips. There really isn't that much more variety in those cases than there is for your ranger with his list of spells and spells from the weapon.

So. my impression is that you want more risk to make the combat more exciting but that is out of character for your ranger who has spent 15 levels becoming the best at ranged attack where you do a lot of damage while remaining relatively secure at the back.

The best solution in this case is likely up to the DM. At 15th level, at least some of the opponents are SMART. They are not going to let that heavy hitting ranger stand or fly unmolested at the back. In addition, by this level there should be real risk in combat because every intelligent opponent will know about healing spells. They will KNOW that when an opponent is knocked unconscious, a quick heal from a team mate will bring them back into the fight. The opponents should be trying to make sure that doesn't happen by hitting opponents when they are down until they are actually dead. At 15th level, the party can likely get a raise dead or other spell to bring back a lost party member BUT not in the context of combat. Intelligent opponents will not allow characters to use yo-yo healing once they are at this level.

Finally, some of the opponents should be trying to bypass the front line and take out the opponents at the back. This forces the ranger to drop their cool bow (unless they also have the crossbow expert feat) and engage opponents at melee range.

All of these combat tactics could certainly work to make combat more "exciting" for the folks used to standing in the back line casting or using ranged attacks. Depending on the opponents, intelligent decisions and use of tactics should start fairly early though I wouldn't start attacking downed opponents until at least tier 2 in most cases.

[Rfkannen]

Thank you all for the tips! I will pass any about making combat harder along to my gm.

Playing less optimilally is a good idea, I was thinking of starting this by switching my spell list to have more active effects.
Currently my thoughts are:


ensnaring strike gives some crowd control
aid gives me a solid option for getting pcs that hit 0 back up
pass without trace is a must and I am not getting rid of it.
Summon beasts would open up a whole new style of play.
switching out zephyr strike for Ashardalon's stride will give me more reason to stay in melee, its less effective to use a third level spell than a first, but this spell makes melee archery more of a valid option.
revivify has been crucial to the character.
Not sure on lightning arrow, a big part of me feels like since I get lightning bolt from a magic item it isn't worth taking? Would love to hear opinions on comparing those two spells!
I THINK I want to keep guardian of nature because I love the aesthetics of it, but I will definitely save it for harder fights.



What do you think of that list, any changes you would make? If I take ALL of those, that leaves me with one spell, what would be your suggestion?

edit: just realized that since rangers get +5 movement, my character has a magic item that gives him +10 movement, and ashardalon's stride gives you plus 20 movement he would officially move more than twice a normal character's speed with that spell up lol. that lets you hit a LOT of mooks!

[J-H]

I'm not super up on Rangers for specific suggestions. What are some spells you could take that help make other party members do/feel/be awesome?

[Rfkannen]

I'm not super up on Rangers for specific suggestions. What are some spells you could take that help make other party members do/feel/be awesome?

Honestly my biggest problem playing a ranger. I normally like spells like hold person that set up your allies attacks, or even just spells like haste which directly buff allies. Rangers don't really get those. The one they get is longstrider, which might be nice for the gnome fighter in the party, but our druid would do that better.

Though it might be worth casting greater invisibility (a gloomstalkre spell) on our bard, he could use the tankyness since he has low dex and tries to be in melee.

[Chad.e.clark]

I'm not super up on Rangers for specific suggestions. What are some spells you could take that help make other party members do/feel/be awesome?

Entangle and Spike Growth come to mind for crowd control. If you dont want to just straight up attack, maybe use Summon Beast or Summon Elemental to set up some proning or grapples.

[strangebloke]

aid gives me a solid option for getting pcs that hit 0 back up
Aid is more of a prep for the day kind of spell. It lasts eight hours and upcasts really well and doesn't use concentration so its sort of like mage armor in that you can just kind of cast it anytime you feel like you have a spell slot you're not using. Kind of boring, but effective!

Not sure on lightning arrow, a big part of me feels like since I get lightning bolt from a magic item it isn't worth taking? Would love to hear opinions on comparing those two spells!

It's not at all like lightning blot.

The big thing with lightning arrow is that it's a bonus action spell that replaces your weapon damage with a 4d8 damage lightning bolt. You get all the damage of your normal attack sequence, but one attack deals 4d8 instead of 1d8. The 2d8 aoe that everyone (including the target) have to save against is just icing.

also not saying its a good idea but if you want to be the flash longstrider also gives +10 foot movement without concentration. As does gloomstalker on the first turn.

[DarknessEternal]

Non-magic based ranged combat is absolutely the most boring thing in D&D. Don't choose it.

[strangebloke]

Non-magic based ranged combat is absolutely the most boring thing in D&D. Don't choose it.

Eldritch Blast spam isn't much more interesting imo :smallyuk:

[tokek]

Honestly my biggest problem playing a ranger. I normally like spells like hold person that set up your allies attacks, or even just spells like haste which directly buff allies. Rangers don't really get those. The one they get is longstrider, which might be nice for the gnome fighter in the party, but our druid would do that better.

Though it might be worth casting greater invisibility (a gloomstalkre spell) on our bard, he could use the tankyness since he has low dex and tries to be in melee.

Conjure Animals - anything that imposes the Restrained condition. For really big foes go Giant Constrictor Snake, more usually I would would go with something like Giant Octopus or Giant Spider. A couple of chunky beasts will not slow the game down much and if they are grapple beasts they will really help your friends.

Or for full battlefield control a bunch of Constrictor Snakes but the onus is then on you not to bog down the whole combat with your slithering horde. I think that's one you talk over with your DM ahead of time. I've only done it once and that was to find that invisible jerk Strahd, they covered a lot of the room and they have blindsight. I did that and then I basically ignored half of the snakes that were in the wrong place so as not to make the combat even slower than it already was - the DM had the animated objects that were also bogging things down attack the snakes :)

[JellyPooga]

RP the fight.

This about sums it up.

Rolling some dice and adding up numbers is really boring. Like, seriously, take a step back and take a look at why, for instance, a lot of people consider full-casters "more fun"...it's because they have options laid out on a platter for them and it feels like they're participating more, making more choices and those choices frequently have recognisable effects beyond just doing damage. The sad truth that many donxt realise is that martials are actually often a lot more fun than casters because the choices you make are the ones you've made for yourself in the moment, rather than a formula you've already laid out, or worse, had laid out for you.

For example; what's going to be more fun? Flying up on your badass griffon and rolling that boulder down to block the river to flood the plain that drowns the horde about to attack the village...or just casting Tsunami? Sure, the magic option has rules that don't have to be adjudicated and applied by a GM and probably carries less risks; it's reliable...and boring.

Before anyone gets in to say "Yeah, but casters can do that kind of creative stuff and more! They still get more options." Yes. It's true. To which I'll reply "Why go out for burger when you have steak burger at home?". Casters have options and features that they often have to forsake to do the things that non-casters will do both out of necessity and because that's what playing such a character is about.

Roleplaying is not about pressing the button and getting the monkey-treat, it's about playing a character, it's about utilising the game rules to create an engaging and entertaining narrative. Play the rules, don't just use them.

[Chronic]

There is only so much you can rp, and rp every fight tend to become artificial too.
Someone said that that encounter design was the key, and I agree. I always try to design encounter with a variety of threats and enemies with special effects. On a basic level, having melee, ranged and spellcasting ennemies is in pretty much every fights against humanoids is a step in the right direction. But you as a gm you can go wayyy farther. For my part, I have compiled a variety of powers, effects or hasard suitable to use in my encounters. From delayed aoe that will take place at the end of the round, forcing people to get away, to blanket of mist drifting on the terrain limiting visibility, to covers littering the battlefield (and the fact that sharpshooter isn't allowed in my games). There is many possibilities that do not require heavy rules but a bit of efforts and imagination. Legendary actions and lairs actions provide a basis for cool things to happen in encounters.
Basic combat sucks in dnd if it just sums up to a punching match with people barely moving but it sure doesn't have to. My vision is that you should put the Pc out of their confort zone as often as possible to push them to make choices in combat.

[jaappleton]

When I said RP the fight, I meant to also RP your class features. What's some things only possible because of your subclass?

I'll provide an example with my old Totem Barbarian. Bear Totem all the way.

After chasing an enemy through a warehouse, we corner the foe we've been chasing. Enemy mage fills the room with Cloudkill and disappears behind a locked door.

I rage, giving myself resistance to the damage. Run through the Cloudkill, taking half damage instead of full because of my subclass. Get to the door, and because of Bear 6, I easily burst through the door with minimal effort as I completely rip it off its hinges.

After beating the mage with the door as an improvised weapon, I grapple him and proceed to throw him INTO HIS OWN CLOUDKILL SPELL.

Sure, I could have used Greatweapon Master to chop down the door and then cut the mage down. That may have been the more optimal combat choice.

However, going the route I went created one of my fondest memories of the character. It was also the first battle I used him in with that campaign, with that group of players (I'd used Grom the Barbarian in previous campaigns with other groups). And let me tell you, that course of action made an impression! They learned exactly what Grom was all about! Merciless, and an absolute force.

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. And I don't mean to do that every turn in every combat. Mix it up is all I'm saying. High DPR is great but is that the most fun thing you could be doing with your turn? If you are stealthed, and enemies are chasing your allies, maybe hold your action to when they're running past you and you trip them up, buying your allies time before taking off. Stuff like that.

[Rfkannen]

Just had session end an hour ago, and I took a lot of y'alls advice and I found combat WAY more fun!

During the first fight I cast summon beast, and even though it wasn't very effective (i cast it at second level) having that bit of melee damage mixed things up a lot!

During the second fight I temporarily switched from using my bow to a whip, and it was definitely less effective, but it helped combat feel fresh!

During the third fight I cast greater invisibility on the FIGHTER instead of myself, and seeing him do four attacks ALL with advantage was very fun! Also the fighter has 19 ac plus the disadvantage from greater invisibility, watching the two stone golems try and fail to hit him was VERY fun!

So yeah, playing less optimally as mixing it up was great advice! thank you!

also I can see why the dm is having trouble with combat! these were super fun, but we fought a homebrew giant gelatinous cube (based off the white max), 12 swarms of scarabs (which were each buffed a bunch) and two cr 13 mad stone golems, all without any of us falling to zero or needing a short rest! Oi thats tough, cr really ain't doing anything at this point lol. Gm says those weren't meant to be hard encounters (they were for wearing down recourses) but still the crs shocked me!

[strangebloke]

Nice, if we helped I'm glad. In all the dumb arguments and toxicity it's fun to shake stuff up.

[Keravath]

When I said RP the fight, I meant to also RP your class features. What's some things only possible because of your subclass?

I'll provide an example with my old Totem Barbarian. Bear Totem all the way.

After chasing an enemy through a warehouse, we corner the foe we've been chasing. Enemy mage fills the room with Cloudkill and disappears behind a locked door.

I rage, giving myself resistance to the damage. Run through the Cloudkill, taking half damage instead of full because of my subclass. Get to the door, and because of Bear 6, I easily burst through the door with minimal effort as I completely rip it off its hinges.

After beating the mage with the door as an improvised weapon, I grapple him and proceed to throw him INTO HIS OWN CLOUDKILL SPELL.

Sure, I could have used Greatweapon Master to chop down the door and then cut the mage down. That may have been the more optimal combat choice.

However, going the route I went created one of my fondest memories of the character. It was also the first battle I used him in with that campaign, with that group of players (I'd used Grom the Barbarian in previous campaigns with other groups). And let me tell you, that course of action made an impression! They learned exactly what Grom was all about! Merciless, and an absolute force.

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. And I don't mean to do that every turn in every combat. Mix it up is all I'm saying. High DPR is great but is that the most fun thing you could be doing with your turn? If you are stealthed, and enemies are chasing your allies, maybe hold your action to when they're running past you and you trip them up, buying your allies time before taking off. Stuff like that.

That's a cool story :) .... interesting that the wizard chose to maintain concentration on the spell so it would damage him ... especially since he would need to make a concentration check after taking the damage anyway :)

[jaappleton]

That's a cool story :) .... interesting that the wizard chose to maintain concentration on the spell so it would damage him ... especially since he would need to make a concentration check after taking the damage anyway :)

I actually spoke with my DM about that after the session.

DM didn't want to let the mage drop Concentration when it wasn't their turn.

[Keravath]

I actually spoke with my DM about that after the session.

DM didn't want to let the mage drop Concentration when it wasn't their turn.

Ok. House rule then since as far as I know concentration can be dropped at any time. I was actually wondering if the mage decided to keep it up to keep the rest of the party at bay while they tried to dimension door out.

[Segev]

I actually spoke with my DM about that after the session.

DM didn't want to let the mage drop Concentration when it wasn't their turn.

Yeah, casting another concentration spell or whatnot automatically drops concentration on whatever you were previously concentrating on. No action required.

[jaappleton]

Yeah, casting another concentration spell or whatnot automatically drops concentration on whatever you were previously concentrating on. No action required.

The mage never cast another spell.

By 'disappear behind a locked door', that was poor phrasing in me end. He ran into a room and locked the door.

[Rfkannen]

Just realized that with the trouble I was having with my ranger, I should probably be a bit conserned that after this arc we are going to run a diffrent campaign where I will playing an artillerist artificer, which is another ranged damage focused half caster.... whoops!

Any tips for that? I don't want to fall into the same trap there as I did with this character.

[jaappleton]

Just realized that with the trouble I was having with my ranger, I should probably be a bit conserned that after this arc we are going to run a diffrent campaign where I will playing an artillerist artificer, which is another ranged damage focused half caster.... whoops!

Any tips for that? I don't want to fall into the same trap there as I did with this character.

Please tell me you're a Tortle named Blastoise.

This is intentionally not in joking blue text I really hope this happens.

[Rfkannen]

Please tell me you're a Tortle named Blastoise.

This is intentionally not in joking blue text I really hope this happens.

FRANTICALLY WRITES DOWN NOTES.

that would be a better idea! the character is actually a warforged named Susan. (obviously my skill at coming up with names for characters is unparalleled, I am a master of originality, lol)
This campaign is kinda funny, we played it for like a year, and there was a great arc that ended with my pc leaving the party, I roll up a whole new pc and then BOOM! four seasons later we do a two year hiatus.
My group is moving towards cycling dms so that the dms have more time to prep, which is super fun and I am excited to have some more variety in my gameplay, but two of the campaigns we will be rotating between stopped years ago and it is gonna be WEIRD to get back into those headspaces lol.

[Dork_Forge]

Just realized that with the trouble I was having with my ranger, I should probably be a bit conserned that after this arc we are going to run a diffrent campaign where I will playing an artillerist artificer, which is another ranged damage focused half caster.... whoops!

Any tips for that? I don't want to fall into the same trap there as I did with this character.

I don't think you can inherently fall into the same trap, your spells are prepared vs learned and the subclass gives you three different options for the turret. Even if you gravitate towards one way of play it's very easy to change that up on the fly.

my personal preference and recommendation with any Artificer is to prep Cure Wounds (and since more recently, Rope Trick), valuable fall back options that break into other styles of play.

[strangebloke]

FRANTICALLY WRITES DOWN NOTES.

that would be a better idea! the character is actually a warforged named Susan. (obviously my skill at coming up with names for characters is unparalleled, I am a master of originality, lol)
This campaign is kinda funny, we played it for like a year, and there was a great arc that ended with my pc leaving the party, I roll up a whole new pc and then BOOM! four seasons later we do a two year hiatus.
My group is moving towards cycling dms so that the dms have more time to prep, which is super fun and I am excited to have some more variety in my gameplay, but two of the campaigns we will be rotating between stopped years ago and it is gonna be WEIRD to get back into those headspaces lol.

Sounds like fun. Especially Susan the Warforged. And I wouldn't worry about it, flamethrowers are a good way to encourage yourself to get into the scrap where things are messy and interesting.

[Segev]

The mage never cast another spell.

By 'disappear behind a locked door', that was poor phrasing in me end. He ran into a room and locked the door.

Ah, my mistake. The problem is he ran through his own spell and damaged himself.

Yeah, the DM ... is incorrect in his ruling, at least as far as how concentration is intended to work. I'd talk with him about it, but if he wants to run it that way, it is his game. Makes create bonfire an unexpectedly-useful cantrip, since it will let you spend an action to drop concentrations you don't want to keep up!

[jaappleton]

Ah, my mistake. The problem is he ran through his own spell and damaged himself.

Yeah, the DM ... is incorrect in his ruling, at least as far as how concentration is intended to work. I'd talk with him about it, but if he wants to run it that way, it is his game. Makes create bonfire an unexpectedly-useful cantrip, since it will let you spend an action to drop concentrations you don't want to keep up!

I think he was just letting me do a cool thing is what it was. Part of why I love my DM.

And I know he occasionally browses this forum. Hello, Guy!

[Segev]

I think he was just letting me do a cool thing is what it was. Part of why I love my DM.

And I know he occasionally browses this forum. Hello, Guy!

That's fair. Sometimes, what's fun for the players really is bending the rules in their favor, because the alternative is that either nothing interesting happens (but the end result will be the same anyway, just take longer), or they won't get to participate in something they really should get to participate in.