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Khrysaes
2021-10-31, 05:18 AM
As the title says.

One of my friends wants to DM a campaign, and I was thinking of playing a moon druid.

That said, we are probably not getting to 20, or even 18, so I was thinking of what would be/could be fun for 1-3 levels of multiclasses. as without the Capstone and beast spells, multiclassing is more feasible, but not necessarily the best option.

Such as:
2 warlock, great old one, telepathy, mage armor at will, and something else like dark vision, detect magic,

1-3 sorcerer, aberrant mind, also gives telepathy, mage armor, and some other spells, can be useful to moon druids particularly at levels 2 and 3 for using spell slots and metamagic since I can't cast in beast forms

2 Paladin, smites can be used in beast form

1-3 bear totem barbarian, damage reduction and advantage for strength based attacks in beast form. Unarmored defense works too, but I think there is a magic item that is better?

What do other people think?

sambojin
2021-10-31, 05:28 AM
The higher level spell slot race got a lot more interesting with Summon Draconic Spirit and Draconic Transformation, as both will help keep CR3/4/5 forms a lot more relevant in combat. So multiclassing is a little worse because of it.

Cleric is very nice however, due to Wis dependency, and a few Channel Divinities being very nice. The "up-slotting lvl1 spells" on your druid side works well with just one level as well. War is a lovely domain for a lvl1 or 2 dips for moon, and does magic nicely as well. You can even go for 3 levels for Spiritual Weapon if you really want, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Wizard is awesome due to the ridiculous amount of spells and cantrips and potential Schools available. Ritual casting is none too shabby either. Well worth slotting Int13+ for, just for the rituals with a 1 level dip, but 2 can be worth it for magic school gimmicks.

Monk is nice for the simple AC, plus you can pretend you can fight from the back of your dragon/ as one later on too, all for a 1 level dip.

nickl_2000
2021-10-31, 10:35 AM
Let me throw another out there that you haven't mentioned. Ranger is a quality 3 level dip. Especially swarmkeeper since that just requires an attack. Stack hunter's mark on top of it and you can add a significant amount of damage on top of the beasts hit.

Bonus if the DM allows you to use the armored fighting style with natural armor or dueling on wildshape form?

RogueJK
2021-10-31, 10:47 AM
Moon Druid relies heavily on Druid levels to keep their Combat Wild Shape forms competitive with enemy scaling. And even a single-classed Moon Druid runs into lulls during its career where it's slightly behind the enemy power curve (like at the end of Tier 2 before Elemental Wild Shape comes online). As a result, multiclassing isn't the best idea on a Moon Druid. You'll want to constantly be striving for bigger/better Wild Shape forms ASAP.

However, if you really want to multiclass, stick to just 1 or possibly 2 levels. And there are a few small 1-2 level dips that are worth considering.

1) Monk 1/Moon Druid X: Gets you WIS+DEX Unarmored Defense, which you can choose to use in place of the Wild Shape's Natural Armor. In almost every case, this is +1 to +5 AC higher than usual (with a few exceptions like Earth Elementals and Giant Crocodiles). Monk 1 is going to be your best bet if you're dead-set on multiclassing your Moon Druid, since it's potentially worth being 1 level behind in exchange for a noticeable boost to your ACs. Here's a link to a page that breaks down the AC bonus for many common Wild Shape forms, comparing both Monk and Barbarian Unarmed Defense to standard Wild Shape ACs: https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/wildshape/#unarmored-defense-and-wild-shape

or

2) Barbarian 1/Moon Druid X: Gets you CON+DEX Unarmored Defense, which you can choose to use in place of the Wild Shape's Natural Armor. (Just keep in mind that it's based on the form's DEX and CON, not your PC's.) This sometimes results in a small bump to AC, though not as common or dramatic as Monk; it's usually only +0 or +1. Also gets you resistance to B/P/S damage and +2 damage to melee hits while raging. The major downside is that you can't Concentrate on a spell while Raging. Therefore, Rage is mostly useful at low levels (like Barbarian 1/Moon Druid 2-4ish). You'll quickly reach a point starting in Tier 2 where the value of Concentrating on a spell while Wild Shaped outpaces the value of Rage's minor damage bonus/resistance. You also run into Bonus Action clog. And you can only Rage 2x/day. Overall, much less appealing than dipping Monk, unless it's strictly a Tier 1 campaign.

or

3) Paladin 2/Moon Druid X: Hard to pull off due to MADness, needing STR/DEX/CON/WIS/CHA. Potentially doable as something like a point buy Half Elf going 13/13+1/13+1/8/14+2/13, though the first several levels are going to be rougher. Even better if you manage to roll really well for stats. Dipping Paladin 2 gets you the ability to Smite while Wild Shaped, a few additional useful spells (like Bless), plus a Fighting Style (though you'll need to ask your DM whether they are willing to allow some of them to still apply while Wild Shaped). You'll be able to hit harder when Wild Shaped thanks to Smite, but you'll also be 2 levels behind in Wild Shape progression, which is enough for your forms to be noticeably squishier at any given time. Up to you whether that trade-off is worth it.

Sorinth
2021-10-31, 10:50 AM
Long Death Monk could be interesting. You get Wisdom to AC, a bonus action attack, and Long Death gets Temp HP on killing a creature which is great in helping to keep you in wildshape form.

Khrysaes
2021-10-31, 12:32 PM
Hmm... curious question:

Druid's wild shape states: You can’t cast spells, and your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form.

This specifically states that spells cant be cast, but then implies the reasoning as being unable to perform somatic or verbal components.

Therefore, would a spell without those two components, if they exist for whatever reason, be able to be cast in beast form?

EDIT: Subtle Metamagic comes to mind.
But that would need either 3 sorcery levels or the feat.
While sorcerer has many many more spells than a druid that have only one verbal OR somatic component, I am not sure if 3 sorcerer levels would be worth being able to cast a limited number of spells in beast form,
vs something like 2 paladin, which could take the spell slots I would have and use them to smite in beast form.

These are the druid spells with No Somatic components

Spell level Book
Faerie Fire 1st PHB
Healing Word 1st PHB
Earthbind 2nd XGE
Warding Wind 2nd XGE
Aura of Vitality 3rd PHB
Guardian of Nature 4th XGE
Geas 5th PHB
Whirlwind 7th XGE

These have no Verbal Components
Control Flames Cantrip XGE
Mold Earth Cantrip XGE
Primal Savagery Cantrip XGE
Shape Water Cantrip XGE
Thunderclap Cantrip XGE
Absorb Elements 1st XGE
Ice Knife 1st XGE
Snare 1st XGE
Beast Sense 2nd (rit.) PHB

RogueJK
2021-10-31, 08:30 PM
No, it's two separate concepts.

A) You can't cast spells

And then...

B) Your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form


If you want to cast any spells in Wild Shape, you need to be a Level 18+ Druid. (And even then, you can't cast spells with Material components.)

Zuras
2021-11-01, 12:22 AM
Just because you’re not going to 20 doesn’t mean there’s a good point to stop taking druid levels. You’re constantly getting spell slots, and getting new spell levels every other level. Elemental Wild Shape at 10 is also basically a tier 2 capstone.

If you expect to hit 10th level, multi-classing is probably a bad idea, because being an elemental is a load of fun. Even being able to fly at 8th level is great—there aren’t really any dead levels. If you’re maxing out at lower levels the Barbarian dip is pretty ridiculous, but by 5th level you’re wishing you had 3rd level spells.

Khrysaes
2021-11-01, 06:56 AM
No, it's two separate concepts.

A) You can't cast spells

And then...

B) Your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form


If you want to cast any spells in Wild Shape, you need to be a Level 18+ Druid. (And even then, you can't cast spells with Material components.)


No, it's two separate concepts.

A) You can't cast spells

And then...

B) Your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form


If you want to cast any spells in Wild Shape, you need to be a Level 18+ Druid. (And even then, you can't cast spells with Material components.)

Okay, that is what I thought. I may ask my DM to see if they would rule it that way, but if they do, no big loss.



Just because you’re not going to 20 doesn’t mean there’s a good point to stop taking druid levels. You’re constantly getting spell slots, and getting new spell levels every other level. Elemental Wild Shape at 10 is also basically a tier 2 capstone.

If you expect to hit 10th level, multi-classing is probably a bad idea, because being an elemental is a load of fun. Even being able to fly at 8th level is great—there aren’t really any dead levels. If you’re maxing out at lower levels the Barbarian dip is pretty ridiculous, but by 5th level you’re wishing you had 3rd level spells.

Yeah, I agree with this, but there are so many things to want and not enough to get them.

My current thought is pure druid, and I will see how I feel without telepathy, which is what I would get from GOO warlock or Aberrant Sorcerer. There is a feat for it, but I am going to start with Resilient Con.

KorvinStarmast
2021-11-01, 07:54 AM
As the title says.

One of my friends wants to DM a campaign, and I was thinking of playing a moon druid.

That said, we are probably not getting to 20, or even 18, so I was thinking of what would be/could be fun for 1-3 levels of multiclasses. as without the Capstone and beast spells, multiclassing is more feasible, but not necessarily the best option.

Such as:
2 warlock, great old one, telepathy, mage armor at will, and something else like dark vision, detect magic,

1-3 sorcerer, aberrant mind, also gives telepathy, mage armor, and some other spells, can be useful to moon druids particularly at levels 2 and 3 for using spell slots and metamagic since I can't cast in beast forms

2 Paladin, smites can be used in beast form

1-3 bear totem barbarian, damage reduction and advantage for strength based attacks in beast form. Unarmored defense works too, but I think there is a magic item that is better?

What do other people think?
I did Monk 1 Moon Druid X ( we stopped play before the end of Tier 3) - worked fine.

Catullus64
2021-11-01, 08:08 AM
I'm of the opinion that straight Druid is probably your best bet, both because of the relative steepness of the beast-form leveling curve, and because you want fast access to those swimming and flying speeds. But if multi-classing is truly thy wish...

Rogue could actually be ok as a dip. Cunning Action and Skill Proficiency are the real draws, and pretty good ones. Most beast attacks aren't eligible for Sneak Attack... but if you turn into an Ape, you actually have access to a Ranged Weapon Attack, in the form of Rock, which is eligible. So turn into a monkey, use Cunning Action to maneuver, and pelt your foes with your unlimited rocks! Sadly the only other beast I'm aware of with a Ranged Weapon Attack is a Giant Ape, which is too high CR to Wild Shape into even if you did go all the way to 20. But there's always Polymorph...

Fighter is also a good choice. Up until recently I would have noted that a Fighting Style isn't terribly useful to a Moon Druid, unless you're some Mr. Moneybags who can afford barding for his animal forms, at which point you can take Defense. Now with TCOE, Blind Fighting and Superior Technique are both decent options. I would probably put as many as three levels into either one. (And, you know, if you start as a Fighter, and are ever swimming in cash, you still have heavy armor proficiency and can go in for barding. You can probably get it resized when you upgrade from Brown Bear to Polar Bear, or from Lion to Saber-Toothed Tiger, or what have you.)

If those both seem too fancy, you can't go wrong with a one-level Barbarian dip.

sambojin
2021-11-01, 08:24 AM
I didn't see it mentioned, but what race are you thinking of choosing? There's telepathy available through some of them, or plenty of other almost warlock'y or sorcerer'y stuff available too, without a level dip outside of Druid. There's tonnes to try.

Level 8-12 are now *so* good with Druids, simply due to wildshape scaling and the new Fizzbin spells, that it seems a pity to slow down access to them. Dragons are just that nice of a summon to tag-team with, or turning non-flying wildshapes into flying breath-cone bonus attacking ones is very good. And it happens just as CR3 wildshapes and CR1/2-2 summons start sucking a bit too (at lvl9+).

But yeah, I'd say War (more attacks and reliability) or Peace Cleric (Bless while in wildshape, or heal others) or Monk (more AC). You can do a 2lvl dip with cleric if you feel like it, and regaining Druid spell slots off your channel divinity is powerful, but just stick with one level of monk if you go that way (20AC as an Air Elemental is a nice capstone anyway, especially with a 19AC dragon summon buddy).

Waazraath
2021-11-01, 08:28 AM
If you wait til after lvl 10 with the dip, or if you think you will reach lvl 15 or something, frenzy barbarian is great cause elemental forms ignor the exhaustion frenzy gives. For some other ideas, see: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24006675&postcount=2 (first build in the thread).

nickl_2000
2021-11-01, 08:29 AM
I'm of the opinion that straight Druid is probably your best bet, both because of the relative steepness of the beast-form leveling curve, and because you want fast access to those swimming and flying speeds. But if multi-classing is truly thy wish...

Rogue could actually be ok as a dip. Cunning Action and Skill Proficiency are the real draws, and pretty good ones. Most beast attacks aren't eligible for Sneak Attack... but if you turn into an Ape, you actually have access to a Ranged Weapon Attack, in the form of Rock, which is eligible. So turn into a monkey, use Cunning Action to maneuver, and pelt your foes with your unlimited rocks! Sadly the only other beast I'm aware of with a Ranged Weapon Attack is a Giant Ape, which is too high CR to Wild Shape into even if you did go all the way to 20. But there's always Polymorph...

Fighter is also a good choice. Up until recently I would have noted that a Fighting Style isn't terribly useful to a Moon Druid, unless you're some Mr. Moneybags who can afford barding for his animal forms, at which point you can take Defense. Now with TCOE, Blind Fighting and Superior Technique are both decent options. I would probably put as many as three levels into either one. (And, you know, if you start as a Fighter, and are ever swimming in cash, you still have heavy armor proficiency and can go in for barding. You can probably get it resized when you upgrade from Brown Bear to Polar Bear, or from Lion to Saber-Toothed Tiger, or what have you.)

If those both seem too fancy, you can't go wrong with a one-level Barbarian dip.

That is an interesting point on the new fighting styles. When I played a Moon Druid Tasha's wasn't an option at all, but Blind Fighting makes for some interesting interactions, especially since Druids have so many spells that cause obscurity.

sambojin
2021-11-01, 08:41 AM
Just for the Rogue dip ranged attack combo, there's also Dilophosaurus (would feel nicer with any damage) and Frilled Deathspitter (brutal with more non-poison damage) at CR1 and Giant Spitting Lizard (hit one of two hard) at CR2, which might be handy with sneak attack.

There might be more, but these are the extra options off the top of my head than "just apes". Can also work pretty well with or as summons to Voltron a fair bit of damage from one/four grid squares as well.


((Just for a laugh, if you really wanted to multi dip, you could go Moon 2/ War Cleric 1/ Rogue 1, and then fill out whatever style you were aiming for. More Druid, 2 of Cleric for +10 to-hit lockdown, or more Sneak Attack and Cunning Action off Rogue and maybe a subclass. I'd go Moon 2->War 1->Rogue 1->Moon 4->War 2->Rogue 2->Moon X. It's complicated, but fun enough, castery enough and slotty enough to probably get you through. How many bonus action options do you want? All of them! As well as all the attack options too!

Moon's are wonderful with the early power they give you for funsies.))

elyktsorb
2021-11-01, 01:13 PM
Do whatever you like honestly, there's probably tons of fun stuff to do.

I'd make sure you get your magic attacks in beast form at the very least before multiclassing though. I did an Assassin Rogue/Moon Druid that was pretty evenly split (This was probably a bad idea tho lol) and despite my forms being on the lesser scale, I still got a lot of use out of the lower level forms for quite a while. (Dire Wolf trip is hecking useful)

Ultimately this didn't due much for me in terms of utility (I originally went Assassin just for the surprise crits but my party never let me do that lol) Arcane Trickster probably would have been more useful a dip, Scout is a good flavor dip.

I did a Open Hand Monk/Land Druid that was pretty evenly split, Open Hand Monk gives you a lot of options to move around a battlefield with relative ease, meaning you can keep up concentration spells and not stay in the main danger zone. So I imagine changing Land to Moon wouldn't be too different.

Khrysaes
2021-11-02, 06:14 AM
I'm of the opinion that straight Druid is probably your best bet, both because of the relative steepness of the beast-form leveling curve, and because you want fast access to those swimming and flying speeds. But if multi-classing is truly thy wish...

Rogue could actually be ok as a dip. Cunning Action and Skill Proficiency are the real draws, and pretty good ones. Most beast attacks aren't eligible for Sneak Attack... but if you turn into an Ape, you actually have access to a Ranged Weapon Attack, in the form of Rock, which is eligible. So turn into a monkey, use Cunning Action to maneuver, and pelt your foes with your unlimited rocks! Sadly the only other beast I'm aware of with a Ranged Weapon Attack is a Giant Ape, which is too high CR to Wild Shape into even if you did go all the way to 20. But there's always Polymorph...

Fighter is also a good choice. Up until recently I would have noted that a Fighting Style isn't terribly useful to a Moon Druid, unless you're some Mr. Moneybags who can afford barding for his animal forms, at which point you can take Defense. Now with TCOE, Blind Fighting and Superior Technique are both decent options. I would probably put as many as three levels into either one. (And, you know, if you start as a Fighter, and are ever swimming in cash, you still have heavy armor proficiency and can go in for barding. You can probably get it resized when you upgrade from Brown Bear to Polar Bear, or from Lion to Saber-Toothed Tiger, or what have you.)

If those both seem too fancy, you can't go wrong with a one-level Barbarian dip.

Rogue would be a good choice for cunning action dashes, hides, skill proficiencies, expertise. Level 3 gives some good subclass options, soulknife has a telepathy option, arcane trickster may be able to get mage armor or something.

I did think of fighter too, but I think ranger or paladin 2 would be a better fit, paladin for the smites, and ranger for skills and favored foe.


I didn't see it mentioned, but what race are you thinking of choosing? There's telepathy available through some of them, or plenty of other almost warlock'y or sorcerer'y stuff available too, without a level dip outside of Druid. There's tonnes to try.

Previously I was thinking of a warfrged, and not being a moon druid but playing a druid circle of the forge from kieth baker's exploring eberron. It has moon druid wild shape progression but buffs the animal forms at 10 instead of providing elemental forms, so that's why I used moon to ask as it is more likely to be known. It basically transforms into construct versions of the animals. I thought it would be fun to play a transformer.

That said, given a non warforged/non circle of the forge character? Probably Kalashtar. Non Eberron? Probably Mountain dwarf or variant human. Given AL v.11 rules, not sure; probably Mountain Dwarf or Variant Human



Level 8-12 are now *so* good with Druids, simply due to wildshape scaling and the new Fizzbin spells, that it seems a pity to slow down access to them. Dragons are just that nice of a summon to tag-team with, or turning non-flying wildshapes into flying breath-cone bonus attacking ones is very good. And it happens just as CR3 wildshapes and CR1/2-2 summons start sucking a bit too (at lvl9+).

Draconic spirit does look fun.


If you wait til after lvl 10 with the dip, or if you think you will reach lvl 15 or something, frenzy barbarian is great cause elemental forms ignor the exhaustion frenzy gives. For some other ideas, see: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24006675&postcount=2 (first build in the thread).

That is an interesting piece of information and not a combination I had thought of before.

sithlordnergal
2021-11-02, 10:41 AM
If you want to cast any spells in Wild Shape, you need to be a Level 18+ Druid. (And even then, you can't cast spells with Material components.)

Well...for 2 levels at least. Get to level 20, which if you're 18 you'll probably be level 20, and suddenly you get to ignore all spell components, except for the ones consumed or that have a cost. At which point you no longer need the material components.

sithlordnergal
2021-11-02, 10:50 AM
Hmmm, its gonna depend on what level you guys reach. If you're going to level 10, then Bear Totem Barbarian 3 / Moon Druid 7 could be nice. Especially if you can convince your DM to use the special 2 headed Giant Constrictor Snake from Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Its basically a Giant Constrictor Snake with the same attacks, CR, HP, ect., but it can make two attacks in a round instead of 1.

Another decent option is Monk for the AC and movement, or you could go two levels of Paladin for Divine Smite. You also have Fighter 2 for Action Surge, which can be handy in and out of Wild Shape. Especially since you can Action Surge to cast two action spells in the same turn.

If you want a single level dip, Warlock is pretty nice. I'd probably go Hexblade, for Hexblade's Curse, or Genie, for the Genie's Wrath. Both add some extra damage to your attacks.

Keravath
2021-11-03, 11:04 AM
Moon druid is very reliant on level for the effectiveness of their beast forms.
- attacks are magical at level 6
- elemental forms at level 10
- CR available is level/3 - so CR2 at level 6 and CR3 at level 9

This usually means that you want to keep multiclass dips to a minimum.

Common choices are:
barbarian 1 for rage, associated damage resistance and dex+con for AC
monk 1 for dex+wis for AC in beastform (since you will be boosting wis this can be beneficial), possible bonus action martial arts attack (value may depend on whether your DM considers Multiattack the same as the Attack action for triggering martial arts - it also depends on whether the DM considers the natural weapons either unarmed strikes or monk weapons - so this one may not work) - on the other hand, it is probably one of the few ways to go with a kung fu panda concept :)

Another non-combat option is one level of life cleric depending on how your DM treats goodberries. Goodberry with the life cleric bonus can result in berries that restore 4 hit points each when cast with a level 1 slot and which last 24 hours. At higher levels, casting goodberry using unused slots at the end of the day can result in an immense amount of healing via goodberry for the next adventuring day. A level 5 character with a day off that uses the slots to cast goodberry ends up with 20 goodberries at 6 hit points each, 30 at 5 hit points each and 40 and 4 hit points each. Which is usually more than enough to keep the party at full hit points for each encounter. Ask your DM how they want to run it though - works RAW but some DMs find it upsetting.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-11-03, 11:52 AM
Astral Self Monk and then an absurdly tiny form like dust mite. A dust mite, a thing that is functionally invisible, that can punch you from 5 feet away. By all means, target the arms made of force.

Fighter 2 for action surge with a multiattack.

ATHATH
2021-11-03, 02:30 PM
I'm a big fan of Paladruid- a Moon Druid with a 2 level Paladin dip. You can't cast spells in beast form, but you CAN burn your spell slots on smiting. Dab on single-classed Paladins by getting more spell slots than they do and 3 attacks per round (with deinonychus form) before they even reach Extra Attack. The Moon Druid's biggest problem is not having an efficient way to expend spell slots while wild shaped, and smiting patches that weakness perfectly. You can spend your higher level slots on casting buff spells (like Fire Shield) and concentration spells before you enter beast form and spend your lower level spell slots on smites once you're in beast form.

I think the best places to multiclass a Moon Druid at would be after 2nd level or after 10th level. Deinonychus form kicks enough ass to be superior to even some CR 2 forms, and the elemental forms pretty much dwarf the power of your animal forms once you get them. I like earth elemental form the most, due to it getting earthglide+tremorsense AND having a +5 CON modifier, meaning that if you have Resilient(CON) and are in earth elemental form, you'll succeed on concentration saves causes by blows that deal <=21 points of damage on even a natural 1. Note that you might want to start as a Paladin if you want slightly more health and/or heavy armor proficiency.

Also, the free fighting style and 10 points of lay on hands healing are nice.


3) Paladin 2/Moon Druid X: Hard to pull off due to MADness, needing STR/DEX/CON/WIS/CHA.
Uh, I don't see how they're MAD. You need 13 STR and 13 CHA to be able to multiclass as a Paladin, but you don't need any investment beyond that. DEX is nice but nowhere near necessary, as it's only relevant for rolling initiative or if you're being attacked while you're outside of wild shape form. CON is nice to have for more HP and better concentration saves, but again is usually only relevant while you're not in wild shape form. You can even get by with a lower WIS score (but not below 13) because you'll mostly be using your spell slots on buff spells and smites, not spells that allow saves. Having more spells known is nice, though, and WIS also determine the attack bonuses of your Tasha's summons (level 6 Summon Fey is cracked if you have a magic shortsword for it).

Khrysaes
2021-11-03, 03:21 PM
I'm a big fan of Paladruid- a Moon Druid with a 2 level Paladin dip. You can't cast spells in beast form, but you CAN burn your spell slots on smiting. Dab on single-classed Paladins by getting more spell slots than they do and 3 attacks per round (with deinonychus form) before they even reach Extra Attack. The Moon Druid's biggest problem is not having an efficient way to expend spell slots while wild shaped, and smiting patches that weakness perfectly. You can spend your higher level slots on casting buff spells (like Fire Shield) and concentration spells before you enter beast form and spend your lower level spell slots on smites once you're in beast form.

I think the best places to multiclass a Moon Druid at would be after 2nd level or after 10th level. Deinonychus form kicks enough ass to be superior to even some CR 2 forms, and the elemental forms pretty much dwarf the power of your animal forms once you get them. I like earth elemental form the most, due to it getting earthglide+tremorsense AND having a +5 CON modifier, meaning that if you have Resilient(CON) and are in earth elemental form, you'll succeed on concentration saves causes by blows that deal <=21 points of damage on even a natural 1. Note that you might want to start as a Paladin if you want slightly more health and/or heavy armor proficiency.

Also, the free fighting style and 10 points of lay on hands healing are nice.


Uh, I don't see how they're MAD. You need 13 STR and 13 CHA to be able to multiclass as a Paladin, but you don't need any investment beyond that. DEX is nice but nowhere near necessary, as it's only relevant for rolling initiative or if you're being attacked while you're outside of wild shape form. You can get by with a lower WIS score (but not below 13) because you'll mostly be using your spell slots on buff spells and smites, not spells that allow saves. Having more spells known is nice, though. CON is nice to have for more HP and better concentration saves, but again is usually only relevant while you're not in wild shape form.

Yeah out of all the dips that seem good, I think paladin has appealed the most for the use of the spell slots in wild shape forms.

Other classes do have appeals, like 2 GOO warlock providing a lot of what I want in telepathy, advantage on con saves, and .. something else, darkvision would be nice, so is the mage armor, so is several other invocations.

Let alone spell slots on a short rest, which I don't believe I have a use for, but could be useful if there are features like do x, or expend a spell slot, such as reviving the Drake for Drakewarden, or summoning the turrets for artillerist.

ATHATH
2021-11-03, 04:02 PM
Alternatively, a 1 level dip in Life Cleric (for the Goodberry + Disciple of Life combo) is also VERY good for Moon Druids, since that, like smiting, gives them something to efficiently spend their lower level slots on. You can blow all of your 1st level slots on Goodberry near the beginning of each day, and that should give your party ~160 HP's worth of out of combat healing to spend over the course of the day (and you can decide to spend 2nd level spell slots on Goodberry as well for even more healing if that 160 HP reserve starts to no longer cut it). And in the late game, Regenerate synergizes really, really well with Disciple of Life.

Khrysaes
2021-11-04, 06:26 AM
Alternatively, a 1 level dip in Life Cleric (for the Goodberry + Disciple of Life combo) is also VERY good for Moon Druids, since that, like smiting, gives them something to efficiently spend their lower level slots on. You can blow all of your 1st level slots on Goodberry near the beginning of each day, and that should give your party ~160 HP's worth of out of combat healing to spend over the course of the day (and you can decide to spend 2nd level spell slots on Goodberry as well for even more healing if that 160 HP reserve starts to no longer cut it). And in the late game, Regenerate synergizes really, really well with Disciple of Life.

I would argue that it may be more effective to blow them at the end of each day, before a long rest, since the berries last 24 hours, but yeah, I had though of cleric too.

In the end it comes down to what I want my druid to do, what is available in the party, what we need, and what the DM says is okay.

Sherlockpwns
2021-11-05, 10:32 PM
I say this entirely depends on what you want your primary form to be and stopping there.

This likely means level 2, 6, or 9.

The reason it matters is there are a few tricks you can do in certain forms that may sway how you want to multi class.

For instance if you want a dire wolf form (2) you could make a priority a class/subclass with a companion or summons (ironically Druid being fine at that already) to capitalize on pack tactics. The only issue with cr 1 is you’ll eventually reach a point you won’t use it in combat.

Going to 6 nets you things like giant constrictor or elk, both of which benefit massively from extra attack (which means level 11; though a war cleric can bonus action attack also as a different option.)

Overall like most of the posters I don’t think bailing on Druid is optimal, but not playing optimally can be fun as long as there is some kind of direction. Therefore I say “what animal do you want to be?” And then figure out how to build around it with your class choice or party.