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rel
2021-11-02, 11:59 AM
Does the pathfinder 1e, 1st party content have any good uses for low BAB iterative attacks that are highly likely to miss?

Perhaps an equivalent to Stormguard Warrior or something similar?

Kurald Galain
2021-11-02, 01:04 PM
You could spend your first attack on trip or dirty trick so that the rest is less likely to miss.

Gnaeus
2021-11-02, 01:15 PM
You could spend your first attack on trip or dirty trick so that the rest is less likely to miss.

This.

Other equally low op suggestions:
If it’s a common problem, vital strike dumps them. Higher op, spheres or PoW let you get more from standard strikes.

In Kurald’s vein, you could throw a tanglefoot bag with an iterative (it’s a touch attack) to make all your attacks more likely to hit. There are some other basic ways to make touch attacks with an iterative.

rel
2021-11-02, 07:23 PM
Throwing a tanglefoot bag is the closest to what I'm looking for. What other ways are there to target touch AC with a later iterative?

Firechanter
2021-11-03, 04:45 AM
My Go-To solution is: make sure your Attack Bonus is so high that most of your Iteratives hit.

Generally, PF1 is not stingy with Attack bonuses, at least for Martial classes. You get things like Weapon Training, Smite, Favoured Enemy etc. With a full Buff suite (Divine Favour, Inspire Courage etc), I usually only miss my primary attack on a 1, giving me a very good chance to bring the 2nd and 30rd attacks home, too.
Beyond level 11, a Martial character can have attack bonuses that allow even the 2nd attack to hit on a 2+, so the 3rd still has a very good chance to connect and only the 4th is a coinflip.

My general observation is that 3.5 gives plenty of damage bonuses but rather few to hit bonuses, and PF1 is the opposite. So iteratives are in fact more valuable/useful in PF.

rel
2021-11-03, 06:22 AM
The bonus stack is certainly effective, I've had the occasional martial rocking wraithstrike back in the 3.5 days but it isn't the approach I'm using here.

Gnaeus
2021-11-03, 07:49 AM
Throwing a tanglefoot bag is the closest to what I'm looking for. What other ways are there to target touch AC with a later iterative?

There are a whole bunch of alchemical items that can be used as a ranged touch attack.

Contact poisons. You probably want a way to be immune.

A number of spells like produce flame give multiple bad touches.

Kurald Galain
2021-11-03, 08:03 AM
Another trick that works is critfishing.

Go for a 15-20 crit rate. A 15+ will probably hit your enemy even on iteratives, so this means that most or all of your hits will be crits. Take a feat like Staggering Critical or Tripping Strike.

stack
2021-11-03, 11:39 AM
Guns. Eats a ton of build resources and locks you into a particular set of weapons, so probably not helpful.

Gnaeus
2021-11-03, 02:42 PM
Guns. Eats a ton of build resources and locks you into a particular set of weapons, so probably not helpful.

That’s a good one. And campaign depending maybe not a ton of build resources. What else do you really need besides quick draw? They might work with martial or even simple weapon proficiency. And even if they don’t, touch attack at -4 is still good on a lot of targets.

stack
2021-11-03, 06:41 PM
That’s a good one. And campaign depending maybe not a ton of build resources. What else do you really need besides quick draw? They might work with martial or even simple weapon proficiency. And even if they don’t, touch attack at -4 is still good on a lot of targets.

You need the hand to draw, plus reloading (so two hands and a way to stow your other weapon unless you can get a tail or other limb). Rapid reload. Ranged combat feats if you don't have them already (point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot). Bonus damage helps since base gun damage is low.

Gnaeus
2021-11-04, 06:16 AM
You need the hand to draw, plus reloading (so two hands and a way to stow your other weapon unless you can get a tail or other limb). Rapid reload. Ranged combat feats if you don't have them already (point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot). Bonus damage helps since base gun damage is low.

Hands is really only a problem for sword and board or 2 weapon styles.
2h weapon: free action to remove hand, free action to quick draw, fire with an iterative, free action to drop pistol, free action to put hand on weapon

Bow, crossbow, one handed weapon, the same without the bother of putting hand back on weapon.

You don’t need rapid reload. You carry a brace of pistols like a good pirate.

Don’t really need a bunch of ranged combat feats. I’ve seen familiars do damage with firearms at -4 unproficient, half BAB no feats.

Bonus damage helps anyone.

Certainly it’s better for some characters (those with a pile of generic to hit/damage bonuses like smites or bardsong, dex builds, partial casters who already wanted a free hand, bow users who already had ranged feats and are just having trouble sticking the iterative.

In any event, it’s easier to manage than alchemical items which can’t be quick drawn, or contact poisons which run the risk of poisoning yourself.